Brad Fitzpatrick ([info]bradfitz) wrote in [info]lj_dev,
@ 2003-02-07 17:09:00
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Hackin' for dollars
Check out:
http://www.livejournal.com/bazaar/

Soon you'll be able to get money for working on LiveJournal stuff. (the code's not done yet... but that's easy, if there's no big complaints about the details)

(I say "hacking" for dollars, but people working on the LJ server manual docs will also be able to get money... or just about anything anybody with voting power in any month wants to support.)

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[info]suppafly
2003-02-07 05:19 pm UTC (link)
cool beans.

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[info]thelovebug
2003-02-07 05:29 pm UTC (link)
What about those of us outside the US who, as you say, may find it impossible to receive payments from this scheme?

Will we get lots of love, affection and donuts from the LJ staff?

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[info]rahaeli
2003-02-07 05:30 pm UTC (link)
I'll buy you some Pocky and ship it to you! :)

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Does this help?
[info]eideteker
2003-02-07 05:55 pm UTC (link)
Requirement to receive money
Before you're eligible to receive money from the pot, you must first complete the necessary tax/legal forms. If you're outside of the United States, this may be tedious or impossible, depending on your country and its relation with the United States.

Cash-out alternative
If it's too difficult for you to receive money, we'll also let you apply your pending balance towards a LiveJournal payment.

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[info]benzado
2003-02-07 05:32 pm UTC (link)
Details: "All participants in the bizarre..."

This will be an interesting experiment. The Bazaar could be a force for trememdous good, or tremendous evil. I hope to be able to participate.

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[info]bradfitz
2003-02-07 05:47 pm UTC (link)
heh... whoops. fixed.

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Looks good!
[info]ruakh
2003-02-07 06:04 pm UTC (link)
Looks good!

Though I personally do no dev work, I see the frustration of those who do at the lack of acknowledgement they receive, and this will hopefully help with that.

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[info]sergeax
2003-02-07 06:08 pm UTC (link)
In a scope of current LJ events this idea sounds like recruiting an additional crew from passengers of a sinkin' ship :)

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[info]bradfitz
2003-02-07 06:16 pm UTC (link)
It's not that bad.

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[info]roy
2003-02-07 06:18 pm UTC (link)
rad.

time for me to become a perl monkey. i've recently been shown the ways of sql, though not as far as lj uses it.

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[info]firelegend
2003-02-07 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Does design work help? Honeslty, I am not concerned about getting paid, just about getting te design effort working and FINISHING!

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[info]xb95
2003-02-07 07:57 pm UTC (link)
Two suggestions for the code:

1) Allow people to indicate they're working on it and show that with the status of whatever project. But allow more than one person/group to indicate they're working on it. Just show it.

2) Allow people to comment on it and ask for clarification/etc. This way it's in a public forum so everyone can see it and benefit from it. Asking for help privately should be discouraged or you will become bogged down with people bugging you.

The idea is good, and I hope to be around for it..

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[info]bradfitz
2003-02-07 11:13 pm UTC (link)
The system will allow voters a text field in which to write what they're interested in. The recommended convention will be a short intro, then links to bugzilla items. People should coordinate who's doing what in the zilla item.

I don't want to make this system more complicated than it has to be.... we already got two great community systems in use. No need to build a new one.

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[info]theorb
2003-02-07 10:27 pm UTC (link)
Idea: integrate this with suggestions somehow, to allow people to indicate that they would probably vote for work, were it done.

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[info]timwi
2003-02-08 05:36 am UTC (link)
You said your problem is that things don't get done. You want to encourage people to finish the projects.

Well, I've thought about this for a while, and I'm honestly not sure if this will solve the problem. It might. But the fact that programmers weren't paid so far isn't the main reason they were discouraged.

People are discouraged because you're too quiet. You leave things on Zilla for months and never even comment on them. I'm not saying you should commit everything immediately, but if you don't, you should at least tell people why.

The oldest patch with both "patch" and "reviewed" keywords on it was last commented on 2002-11-22, i.e. two and a half months ago. How ridiculous is that? THAT's what's discouraging people.

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[info]timwi
2003-02-08 05:39 am UTC (link)
Further to that:

If people are going to have to wait for their money for that long, it's only going to discourage them more.

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[info]lisa
2003-02-08 12:49 pm UTC (link)
I think one of the main points in the Bazaar system is not just money but to get more involvement from major contributors in the things are being added to livejournal, and not have that all rest on Brad. Its true he'll still have overall say in what is being put into production, but really this system puts much more of the planning and decision making back on the rest of the contributors. Its encouraging communication of desires, expectations as well as providing a showcase of talents.

If its viewed as just Money, I agree this isn't the answer. I think you'll find that when this starts going it'll be more apparent that money is just one catalyst that drives the rest of these things to come together.

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Re:
[info]timwi
2003-02-08 12:58 pm UTC (link)
Planning and communication between contributors is currently not a problem. The problem is lack of communication from Brad. Just look at how many Zilla items there are that he's never commented on. He wants things to get finished, but when they are finished, he ignores them.

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[info]droid_1
2003-02-08 08:38 am UTC (link)
Most excellent!

Say, I had a thought (ow! That hurt!) and I was wondering where to post it.

The thought is: If it would reduce the load on the server, would it be possible to make one of the "options" to be to only make temporary posts? It's extremely tedious to go back and delete entries one by one, and some of us don't like to keep our old entries around. So it would be nice if posts could automatically become vapor after a few days. With an option on the client, of course, to make a post permanent.

Having temporary posts would have the benefit of freeing up space on the servers and reducing the load on the database by having less junk to sort through.

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[info]benzado
2003-02-08 11:05 am UTC (link)
Say, I had a thought (ow! That hurt!) and I was wondering where to post it.

Then you should ask where to post it.

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Re:
[info]droid_1
2003-02-08 02:41 pm UTC (link)
That's what I'm doing, I thought.
At least I didn't make a whole post just to ask where to put the post.

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[info]timwi
2003-02-08 12:36 pm UTC (link)
Disk space is not a problem. More entries lying about in the archives don't produce performance issues.

If they were to delete old entries, database fragmentation would occur (as it already did with syndicated accounts, because their old entries are deleted, so they were moved to a new cluster of their own).

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[info]droid_1
2003-02-08 02:43 pm UTC (link)
So old entries are on a server of their own? Say, that's a thought.
They'd be a lot easier to compact that way.

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Re:
[info]timwi
2003-02-08 03:07 pm UTC (link)
No, syndicated journals are on a server of their own, is what I meant.

Old entries do not matter. They are not a problem. Disk space is not a problem. Entries do not need to be compacted (whatever that would mean, anyway).

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Re:
[info]droid_1
2003-02-08 03:15 pm UTC (link)
"Compacting" is the process of removing the holes. Smaller databases used to keep the deleted entries and just flag them as deleted until "compacting" would occur, at which time it actually deleted them, or rather left them out as it rewrote the file, resulting in a smaller file. In the meantime, after deletion and before compacting, only the index is rewritten, leaving out the "deleted" entries.

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