Jim Ramsey ([info]jimramsey) wrote in [info]lj_design,
@ 2007-04-26 00:15:00
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Entry tags:site scheme, vertigo

Vertical Horizon, take 2
Let me try this again :)

I've altered my mockup of vertical-nav Horizon to anchor the sidebar to the side of the page since that was one of the major issues people had with the first version. Also, vertical-nav Horizon would not use javascript for the navigation -- it'd be basic html.

I'm also including a screenshot of Vertigo so people can compare side-by-side.


Note: The background of the sidebar won't necessarily be gray (this is just an example) and the "Home | Site Map | Viewing Options" links at the top won't be drop-downs.

Several people suggested that the poll in the previous post should have been two questions: 1) do you prefer drop-downs or sidebar navigation and 2) do you want to be able to customize the colors in the site scheme. Unfortunately, the reality is that we probably don't have enough time to create and maintain alternate color options and holiday themes for two independent site schemes.

My goal in suggesting the sidebar navigation option in Horizon was to expand the options within a single site scheme rather than give a choice between two site schemes. Ideally, this would simplify things on our side while letting users actually have more control over their LJ experience.

Again, feedback is welcome.


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[info]keristars
2007-04-26 08:04 am UTC (link)
I quite prefer the grey to the blue in the sidebar, actually. I like having a sidebar, but I prefer the delineation to be subtle - the blue is very heavy and pulls my attention to the side.

If there were any customisation options for the coloring, I think being able to customize the shade of the sidebar wold be the first and best.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

[info]keristars
2007-04-26 08:08 am UTC (link)
Er, I wasn't as clear as I meant to be. I would use Vertigo currently, except that I don't care for the dark blue bar. So I stick with xColibur, since I like the style of the top section better than Horizon's.

So, that said, seeing the two graphics pop up on my friendslist, I immediately when OH, GREY IS NICE.


Also, I'd thought that Vertigo all along was exactly what you're explaining here. It surprises me that it isn't.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]imc, 2007-04-26 09:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2007-04-26 09:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]imc, 2007-04-26 09:20 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2007-04-26 09:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]imc, 2007-04-26 09:18 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]keristars, 2007-04-26 09:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]snakeling, 2007-04-26 09:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2007-04-26 09:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]keristars, 2007-04-26 11:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]echoglow, 2007-06-29 09:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]e_moon60, 2007-07-05 03:19 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]aveleh
2007-04-26 08:08 am UTC (link)
I really like this idea. I definitely like the idea of being able to choose our own colours so that those of us who need it can easily adjust the contrast. (Or is the idea that we get to pick between given schemes, as opposed to getting to input hex for the three main colours?) Also, if this is an appropriate time/place for the suggestion (as opposed to [info]suggestions), I'd love to see an option to ignore holiday schemes. They're cute, I like them, but I also find them distracting. (Ooh, and I tend to just throw out everything that comes to mind, I bet some users would love to be able to *keep* holiday schemes.)

But really, I think the plan of maintaining it as one scheme makes sense, no matter how few/many options beyond vertical/horizontal we end up with. Thank you :)

(Reply to this)


[info]twissie
2007-04-26 08:21 am UTC (link)
That looks a lot better. I see the little "x" in the top right corner of the sidebar is gone as well.

Mhm, this is looking good. I could definitely live with this.

(Reply to this)


[info]amanda
2007-04-26 08:36 am UTC (link)
I like both. Though I definitely prefer the side bar to the drop down list. If Horizon can be customized to show a side bar (I don't even care about colours), then it makes sense to do that and maintain only one site scheme, thus leaving you the resources to spend time on other stuffs.

Customizable Horizon plz. *thumbs up*

Save the holiday themes! Holiday themes rawk!

(Reply to this)


[info]legomymalfoy
2007-04-26 08:38 am UTC (link)
Drop down menus are evil and annoying! I would love to have it be HTML, drop-down free, and customizable *thumbs up*

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

[info]museumfreak
2007-05-18 09:14 am UTC (link)
+1

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]dahliablue, 2007-06-20 04:08 am UTC (Expand)

[info]snapelike
2007-04-26 09:09 am UTC (link)
I'll go with [info]legomymalfoy above and I agree wholeheartedly.

The only thing that could make me leave my beloved XColibur, however, would be if the vertical thingie was colour-customisable, preferably so it fitted the journal/comm's design, and not only (like over at greatestjournal) visible to the owner of the journal.

I dislike Horizon, but LJ's decision not to maintain XCol probably will drive me to use it sooner or later - at least it is much better in the Vertical version.

Nice work you've done here. :0)

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

[info]mordyn4
2007-04-26 09:32 am UTC (link)
IAWTC. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]sircaliban, 2007-04-26 11:56 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]nemesister
2007-04-26 10:06 am UTC (link)
I just hope you are not planning to keep calling it "vertical Horizon" because that's just awful and if there's no Vertigo I wouldn't have voted for the name Horizon either. Independent or not, they need to be called Vertigo and Horizon. That's all I care about. :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

[info]hakeber
2007-04-27 05:21 pm UTC (link)
I agree with this.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]echoglow, 2007-06-29 09:24 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]lab_brat
2007-04-26 10:19 am UTC (link)
I preferred the other mockup, where the grey menu was separate from the rest. Sorta floating there on the left.

If I just compare those two images up there ^^ then I prefer the blue one, because I like the space around the icon. I've always thought icons look a little crushed up there in the corner with no margins or padding or whatever.

To answer the questions though, I like both drop downs and sidemenus. And I would love to be able to customise colours for them as I cant stand the blue colour they are now. lol

Would the colour customisation extend to comments on LJ style comment pages like this one?

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[info]jissa
2007-04-26 12:16 pm UTC (link)
I'd like to give this idea my thumbs up, again! Particularly since, in the screenshots you've shown of "vertical horizon," you've removed the extra space around the userpic, which I've always found to be v. not pleasing. (I actually use Vertigo right now, because I like to test drive the new designs you guys produce, but with custom CSS to make it look like dystopia, so I don't have to that userpic just floating there in the nothingness ;)

Thanks again for your work!

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[info]mieronna
2007-04-26 12:19 pm UTC (link)
My personal problem with the vertical site schemes is the fact that the navigation bars are on the left side and when reading I'm automatically drawn to this big fat column of text, no matter what colour it has. (Big and fat because I have a small screen.)

What I think would be extremely nifty if one could customise horizon to not only to have a side navigation, but also on what side the navigation is!

Because if it were on the right side, I'd change to it in a heartbeat - drop-down menus are evil! If we could also customise the colours, it would be just perfect!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]casrin
2007-04-26 12:47 pm UTC (link)
That's exactly what the "issue" is for me as well - I'd much prefer the sidebar to be on the right side so that main content is "right in front of me" by starting on the actual left.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]spydielives
2007-04-26 12:53 pm UTC (link)
I like what you have.

Left vertical menu. Easy contrast. All options expanded (no flash/javascript/blah blah blah required).

(Reply to this)


[info]alessar
2007-04-26 12:57 pm UTC (link)
I'm happy with the beta of Vertigo.

(Reply to this)


[info]starfallz
2007-04-26 01:11 pm UTC (link)
I really like the vertical-nav Horizon over the Vertigo. The placement of the user icon and the strong blue side nav was really distracting to me.

(Reply to this)


[info]cellio
2007-04-26 01:20 pm UTC (link)
I like sidebar navigation. I strongly dislike drop-down-menu navigation. I'm indifferent to blue vs gray. I'm all for making maintenance easier.

(Reply to this)


[info]marginaliana
2007-04-26 01:21 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm.

The only remaining issues I have are that I like the color space around the userpic, which Vertigo currently has and which you seem to have removed in the latest example. Also, I kind of prefer the "Home | Site Map" etc on the right side, but that's not a super strong feeling.

What I do like about the mockup is that you've moved the site map and things to line up with the bottom of the sidebar content instead of hugging the text. That looks good. And having the mini site map is good.

Other than my concerns above, I think it looks good. I would love the ability to customize the sidebar colors, too, so that's a real plus.

(Reply to this)


[info]makingicons4you
2007-04-26 01:34 pm UTC (link)
Horizon with more options is fine by me... just the java and drop downs like to play heck on some computers that are either older computers or SOME dial-up users. :)

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[info]lafemmezilla
2007-04-26 01:47 pm UTC (link)
This is better, but I still prefer Vertigo. The blue background defines areas more clearly.

(Reply to this)


[info]anotherdream
2007-04-26 02:08 pm UTC (link)
Honestly, from the user side of things - I can't see what difference this would make at all for the user. It looks pretty much the same, you can still call the options Vertigo and Horizon. The average user doesn't care - nor does/should he need to - how the backend works. As far as I can see, the end result for the end user is the same. (Minor differences in appearance are inconsequential, since they can quite likely be tweaked.) I don't see a point in asking the users in the first place.

Or, if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to communicate, please do explain in small words. ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]boosette
2007-04-26 02:18 pm UTC (link)
It's more a matter of many people having never gotten Horizon to work properly, which to my mind creates the need for a site scheme that doesn't use Horizon's fancy tricks and as a consequence does work properly.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]anotherdream, 2007-04-26 02:21 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]boosette, 2007-04-26 02:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jimramsey, 2007-04-26 05:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]blktauna, 2007-04-26 09:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]boosette, 2007-04-26 11:21 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jayne_190
2007-04-26 02:50 pm UTC (link)
1) Sidebar by a long shot

I also prefer the blue over the gray, which just seems to meld into the rest of the page.

2) If I am able to. It would be nice for various holidays to have the option to have a different colour for the sidebar.

Thanks for taking the time to ask us what we think over just going and doing something without our opinion.

(Reply to this)


[info]flamingtoilet
2007-04-26 02:51 pm UTC (link)
*does not want to give up Vertigo* I'd much rather keep Vertigo as a separate style than to have to go through the customisation process that will probably confuse me. Kudos for not having the javascript stuff on the vertical style regardless. I've never liked them, and my wife can't use them due to her screen reader. Nifty does not always equal Better, and rarely equals Simple.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]chasethestars
2007-04-26 09:52 pm UTC (link)
The customization would be optional. There will be a default and people who want custom colors can chooose custom colors while those who don't can keep what's already set.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]persephone_kore, 2007-04-28 06:20 am UTC (Expand)

[info]emmavescence
2007-04-26 02:53 pm UTC (link)
It makes more sense for the vertical variant to be integrated with Horizon as one scheme, which I thought was the point in the first place. The grey in the mockup isn't quite right, and I'm not sure whether I prefer the userpic to have space around it and line up with the sidebar or not. I guess I don't really mind either :) I voted to keep Vertigo separate, but if you make the mock up look this close to Vertigo, I'd rather have them as one scheme so we can choose colour options ourselves.

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[info]jojobear99
2007-04-26 03:29 pm UTC (link)
The new one is MUCH better. The gray background for the sidebar is much less distracting from the page contents. Plus the positioning of the User icon just fits better and the left alignment of the links on the blue stripe looks better aesthetically

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[info]branchandroot
2007-04-26 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Sidebar tight against the side is good.

Having the horizontal menu up against the left when all the other stuff is also on the left is not good. It's cramped and divides the eye between the first horizontal and vertical menu items.

I also much prefer the continuous background down the left.

However, if you're planning to do this with css, there is no reason why all those things can't be duplicated in the vertical Horizon version. All you need to do is slap the right id containers around the elements, and lo, picky people like me can move them wherever they want (given the right dialogue with which to do so, unless of course you want to give us style-sheet access).

*takes a quick look at source* Actually, if Vertigo has similar wrappers to Horizon, you've got what you need to do it already.

So, provided the integrated vertical layout isn't lumbered with all the Javascript that Horizon clunks along with, and is styled to match the current Vertigo (with customization options for color and aligmnent), I am in favor of the integrated version.

If the html code is standardized, you could even open up the creation of 'themes' for this layout by users.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]chasethestars
2007-04-26 09:56 pm UTC (link)
...picky people like me can move them wherever they want...
Are you hinting that you'd prefer the sidebar to be on the right? :)

I really like the idea of user-created "themes"!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]branchandroot, 2007-04-26 10:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]chasethestars, 2007-04-26 10:10 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]helianthas
2007-04-26 04:23 pm UTC (link)
I HATE DROP-DOWNS!

I've been using Dystopia for years; never could get used to Horizon.
Been trying the Vertigo Beta and like it fine.

I'd go back to Dystopia before using Horizon with drop-downs.

Having a vertical, visible nav is much more important to me than being able to adjust color.

(Reply to this)


[info]jewelianna
2007-04-26 05:27 pm UTC (link)
I still prefer the framed feel of having the sidebar continue to the top of the screen. It looks neater, with the text in the gradient bar at the top aligned with the edge of the sidebar/white box underneath.

I also continue to prefer the darker background color with white text for the sidebar.

I also like having only a single line of text at the bottom of the page, as demonstrated in the Vertigo image above. It's much cleaner.

In addition, I like the right alignment of the text in the blue bar under the gradient bar. I believe that it's easier to navigate that way.

I like that the icon has some space around it, and is not forced into the corner with the Vertigo scheme.

I understand that you don't have time to maintain two customized schemes. That makes sense. Could you allow Vertigo to exist uncustomized and allow customizations only for Horizon? While many people would love to turn their journals hot pink or decorate them for the holidays, there are also many of us who simply want an easy-to-use, neat and clean layout that's consistent throughout LJ.

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