Jim Ramsey ([info]jimramsey) wrote in [info]lj_design,
@ 2007-04-23 17:18:00
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Entry tags:site scheme, vertigo

Vertical Horizon
Hiya. I'm [info]jimramsey  , one of the drones from sector 7G, er, I mean one of the UI Engineers here at LiveJournal.

Thanks to everyone who submitted Vertigo feedback. Your comments and suggestions were extremely helpful.

The goal of the Vertigo site scheme is to give people the option of having the site navigation in the left sidebar rather than in the drop-down menus at the top of the page. It's a request that we've gotten from a lot of users and it's one that we definitely want to address, especially since we are no longer officially supporting XColibur or Dystopia.

However, we started thinking that maybe a completely separate site scheme isn't the right way to address it. A site scheme has its own set of templates files, images, stylesheets, etc. Even if it looks similar visually, it's a separate entity from other site schemes.

So, what if instead of the Vertigo site scheme we simply offered options within Horizon that let you choose to have the navigation in the left sidebar? That would also make it easier for us to add more options in the future (like different color schemes or holiday themes) to let users further customize Horizon.

It might look something like this:


Update: Just to clarify, Horizon with vertical navigation will not use javascript drop-downs. It will be plain-old html just like Vertigo or Dystopia.

Poll #972093 vertical-horizon
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All

Here's the chance to put your $0.02 in:

View Answers

I want options in Horizon that will let me choose to have the navigation in the sidebar and change the color scheme
234 (64.8%)

I'd prefer Vertigo be an independent site scheme with its own look and feel; the custom options are of minimal importance
127 (35.2%)




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[info]queclecumber
2007-04-24 12:26 am UTC (link)
Much better idea! Thanks!

(Reply to this)


[info]sewcute
2007-04-24 12:29 am UTC (link)
but I really love Vertigo. PLEASE don't take it away, I just got used to it after Xcolibur!

(Reply to this)


[info]boosette
2007-04-24 12:38 am UTC (link)
I ADORE vertigo right now -- I can never get Horizon to function properly in safari, and well, I think the the "something like this" it might look like is just plain ugly as sin. Vertigo beta is has all the good of both dystopia and horizon combined into one package.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]eruthros
2007-04-24 02:22 am UTC (link)
well, I think the the "something like this" it might look like is just plain ugly as sin

I agree! I don't mind Vertigo's design; it's not thrilling, but it's fine.

Also, the reason I use it is that I hate Horizon's java-based drop-downs. I don't want java-based sidebars in a Vertigo-like-thing, either!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]boosette, 2007-04-24 02:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hakeber, 2007-04-24 04:11 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jimramsey, 2007-04-25 08:52 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jewelianna
2007-04-24 12:40 am UTC (link)
Noooooooo! I LOVE Vertigo. Please don't take it away. That would just be cruel.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]hakeber
2007-04-24 04:12 am UTC (link)
I think they have. I suddenly can't find it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]jimramsey, 2007-04-24 04:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hakeber, 2007-04-24 04:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lacey, 2007-04-24 08:39 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jimramsey, 2007-04-25 08:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hakeber, 2007-04-25 09:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]eruthros, 2007-04-24 11:52 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]miffyness, 2007-04-24 12:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emmavescence, 2007-04-24 03:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]pengolodh_sc, 2007-04-25 09:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]eruthros, 2007-04-25 09:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]pengolodh_sc, 2007-04-25 10:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jewelianna, 2007-04-24 01:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jewelianna, 2007-04-24 01:30 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]marginaliana, 2007-04-24 04:38 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]nathanielapollo
2007-04-24 12:42 am UTC (link)
this is an awesome idea!

(Reply to this)


[info]jewelianna
2007-04-24 12:43 am UTC (link)
Also, you're really asking people to choose two things at once. That poll should be broken into two parts:
1. I prefer Horizon with sidebar/I prefer Vertigo
2. I prefer custom colors/color is of little importance

You're going to get skewed data with the current poll-- people who care about color vs. layout answering a question about layout based on desire for custom color.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]dimmie
2007-04-24 02:12 am UTC (link)
I fully agree with this comment.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]lucy_u2, 2007-04-24 02:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-04-24 08:35 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]alessar
2007-04-24 12:43 am UTC (link)
Honestly, Horizon does not function correctly for me, and I'm not using anything unusual: a current version of Firefox, minimal or no customizes. Rollover menus don't open right, I don't like the organization, just... it's never been a good one for me. The beta version of the vertical scheme works very well for me, and I'd prefer this "fresh" interface than an attempt to change the other one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hakeber
2007-04-24 04:13 am UTC (link)
Yes. Yesyesyes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]camomiletea
2007-04-24 01:08 am UTC (link)
Hmm, I thought Vertigo was basically Horizon with different CSS... I guess I was wrong?

I don't care about the Vertigo one way or the other, but I do like the idea of being able to change the colors, so that's why I voted with the first option.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]aveleh
2007-04-24 01:54 am UTC (link)
Ditto.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]ciaran_h, 2007-04-25 06:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]uniquewonders, 2007-04-25 06:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ciaran_h, 2007-04-25 08:39 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]safiiru
2007-04-24 01:13 am UTC (link)
I'm not seeing Vertigo on the viewing options page at the moment, so I can't check, but this is as good a place as any to ask - is there any chance of Basic users not seeing features they don't have access to? I've mentioned this in polls before, but as Horizon stands now, Scrapbook is basically an entire menu's worth of upgrade-nudges, and in Vertigo (or a vertical Horizon) it's an always-visible menu's worth of upgrade-nudges.

I can't see any purpose served by this, as new users no longer start at the Basic level and existing users are surely aware of their options by now, and it makes both schemes quite obnoxious for Basic users. (And if someone feels that these links do serve a purpose to Basic users, perhaps this would be an opportunity to let us know why?)

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]rebism
2007-04-24 01:26 am UTC (link)
It's advertising, and serves two purposes. Firstly, to let you know what's there - I've had a lot of people be free users for years and then when they decide they've been here long enough to want to pay up, ask "so, paid users, what do I get for my moneys?". Secondly, it's the niggling reminder to pay up already - "come on, you know you want to" - like seeing a Pepsi ad once, and going 'bah', and by the end of the hour of Pepsi ads every ad break going "gee, I'd really love a Pepsi". What, you mean you don't have that reaction?

I support the inclusion of everything, because without informing people what they get for their money, fewer people will pay. Those who want to hunt out features still will, but those who just go "hey, that looks useful, I think I might pay for that" won't get that chance.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]safiiru, 2007-04-24 02:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2007-04-24 01:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]safiiru, 2007-04-24 03:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2007-04-24 06:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ciaran_h, 2007-04-25 06:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2007-04-25 06:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2007-04-25 07:10 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]lafemmezilla
2007-04-24 01:22 am UTC (link)
Please, PLEASE don't force us into a version that's so heavy on the javascript rollover shenanigans. It's incredibly painful.

I really like Vertigo so far though! :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jimramsey
2007-04-24 04:10 am UTC (link)
Just to clarify, the vertical navigation in Horizon would NOT require javascript.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]hakeber, 2007-04-24 04:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kimmi8, 2007-04-24 04:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mordyn4, 2007-04-24 07:44 am UTC (Expand)

[info]kitby
2007-04-24 01:24 am UTC (link)
This comment is inspired by the screenshot.

[1] Would it be too much trouble to test LJ using a browser window that's ~875 px wide (a reasonable width for those of us with mere 1024x768 monitors) and base font size of 18pt (for those of us who don't have the eyes of hawks)? (The answer is hopefully "no", given that it takes ~10 seconds to reconfigure a browser to match that profile.) Under something like those settings, the navigation bar in the current Horizon layout is pretty much broken, for example.

[2] The screenshot was taken with sub-pixel anti-aliasing (or some similiar technology) enabled. Thus, the text looks awful on monitors without the exact same characteristics or to those of us who can actually see the little colored "halos" around all the letters. It's an annoying distraction (at least for me) from what should be the focus of the screenshot: the layout.

(Reply to this)


[info]angelpsalm
2007-04-24 01:41 am UTC (link)
I lol'ed at the Simpson reference.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jimramsey
2007-04-24 04:09 am UTC (link)
thanks :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]spydielives
2007-04-24 01:47 am UTC (link)
Third option: so long as it is vertical (some of us HATE drop downs) customization options are not as important.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]burr86
2007-04-24 02:08 am UTC (link)
Amen! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]drowsyfantasy, 2007-04-24 02:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hakeber, 2007-04-24 04:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lacey, 2007-04-24 08:41 am UTC (Expand)

[info]makingicons4you
2007-04-24 02:46 am UTC (link)
I would love for Horizon to offer either across the top like now or down the side menu. The color idea as well as holiday themes also are great ideas. I say go for it.

(Reply to this)


[info]beckyzoole
2007-04-24 03:30 am UTC (link)
I really wanted to like Horizon, but it just didn't work for me. I haven't even tried Vertigo. So I'm not responding to the poll because... meh. It doesn't make much difference to me one way or another.

However, custom options are always always a good thing.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]beckyzoole
2007-04-24 04:17 pm UTC (link)
On looking closer at the vertical-Horizon sample, I have two observations.

First, I really like the menu options, both the wording and the order. They seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Second, I have a wide screen. I'd love to see a site scheme that's flexible enough to take advantage of that. I don't like ending up with wide borders, or, even worse, a whole lot of white space to the right. If the central column of vertical-Horizon would adjust to the width of the screen, I think I'd switch to it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rainbow
2007-04-24 03:42 am UTC (link)
that is 2 awfly differnt things, isnt it?

1. i love vertigo. horizon? the drop downs do not work right on my system and to me not being able to SEE what i'm looking for makes it confusing. so i want vertigo, not a horizon that does verticle stuff if it will be like horizon and not work.

2. i think it would be neat to be able to change the color scheme in vertigo.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jimramsey
2007-04-24 04:08 am UTC (link)
Just to clarify, the vertical navigation in Horizon would NOT require javascript and would work exactly as it does in Vertigo and Dystopia now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]sewcute, 2007-04-24 11:08 am UTC (Expand)

[info]ladysorka
2007-04-24 03:44 am UTC (link)
As long as you continue to give me an option to have absolutely nothing on the side (I want words I'm reading to fill the whole screen, which is why half the time I browse the internet with stylesheets off completely), I honestly don't care either way.

I have no interest in using vertigo, but as long as you continue to give me an entirely horizontal option, I'm prefectly happy.

(Reply to this)


[info]jissa
2007-04-24 03:50 am UTC (link)
As long as "vertical Horizon" wouldn't require script enabled to see the menus, I'd say go for it! I actually vastly prefer the look that you showed us in "it might look something like this" to the look of Verizon right now, so I approve of the idea.

Thanks for the thought you guys put into this!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jimramsey
2007-04-24 04:05 am UTC (link)
That's correct, the vertical navigation in Horizon would NOT require javascript.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]jissa, 2007-04-24 04:09 am UTC (Expand)

[info]hakeber
2007-04-24 04:04 am UTC (link)
Where'd Vertigo go? I just logged in a bit ago, and it was gone! I'd been switched back to Horizon! Which I loathe with a passion I cannot even describe here as it would require language not for use in polite company. Suffice to say I hate it, and then crank that feeling up about tenfold.

(Reply to this)


[info]xoshua
2007-04-24 04:20 am UTC (link)
since i still have vertical horizon when others don't, i'm going to appreciate that for a moment... okay.

i like vertical. the vertical shown in the picture looks even better, because i have issues with stuff being crammed as close to the edge of my browser window as it is now.

what if there was an option to send the vertical menu to the right hand side of the browser, similar to being able to arrange things in myLJ?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hakeber
2007-04-24 04:24 am UTC (link)
Yes. The whole column effect.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lugia222
2007-04-24 04:42 am UTC (link)
I personally think it's a great idea. Considering all the functionality of the layout is still in the left-side bar just like in Vertigo, I think it's a great idea.

(Reply to this)


[info]lab_brat
2007-04-24 07:30 am UTC (link)
pity vertigo has been taken away so we can't compare how the two look...

having said that, I actually like the sidebar menu you've presented in the image above, and would actually consider using it.

(Reply to this)


[info]twissie
2007-04-24 07:53 am UTC (link)
Right now I think Vertigo looks better than the picture you've shown us here, but it seems like a good idea to make Vertigo part of Horizon, so to speak. I'm just worried that it will end up not working for me. I've had problems getting Horizon to work with Safari in the past, and I'd be incredibly annoyed if the new and brilliant site scheme would only make me go back to the outdated Dystopia yet again.

Oh and if this thing goes through, I really hope the vertical navigation box (in the image in this post) will be less detached and more to the left in the finished product <,<; It looks quite ugly the way it is in the picture.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hakeber
2007-04-24 11:24 am UTC (link)
You're right. I hadn't noticed that it wasn't quite to the left. In fact, the image shown appears to indicate that the Horizon version will be very annoying and fail to occupy the entire window width. Most of us now us higher resolutions, and it would be nice if more of the themes would automatically widen to fit, instead of being static and then just floating in the middle of the window. Very annoying.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lacey
2007-04-24 08:45 am UTC (link)
Please leave Horizon and Vertigo as they were before: two separate entities. Especially since now Dystopia and XColibur aren't officially supported anymore. It is my opinion, and judging from the comments I've seen here and elsewhere i'm not alone, that they will serve best as two lone, separate entities.

(Reply to this)


[info]bean_bunny
2007-04-24 11:18 am UTC (link)
C. I'm going to use Dystopia, nya nya.

Seriously, it's the best scheme. Why for you do this?

(Reply to this)


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