Barak Berkowitz ([info]barakb25) wrote in [info]lj_biz,
@ 2007-06-19 15:08:00
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putting our money where our mouth is
As I said in my my posts on LJ News, we at Six Apart care about freedom of speech, protection from sexual violence, creating an economy that encourages sharing, and using technology to improve the world. As many of you have said, those are easy words to say, but actions speak louder than words. We agree. So we're putting our money where our mouth is, and giving you a way to influence how much money we give.

We'll be selling permanent accounts for seven days, beginning Thursday. As we did two years ago, these accounts will sell for $150. This time, for every account purchased during the first 36 hours of the sale, we'll make a donation of $25, shared equally among the EFF, RAINN, Creative Commons, and WITNESS. These organizations reflect our values, and we hope they reflect yours.

EFF is the world’s leading advocate of freedom of speech on the web; RAINN is the United States' largest anti-sexual assault organization; Creative Commons is the global organization pioneering alternate licenses to traditional copyright in order to allow sharing, remixing and reusing content; and Witness works to use video and online technologies to open the eyes of the world to human rights violations.

If you decide to buy a permanent account during the first 36 hours of the sale, $25 of your purchase will shared with these organizations. Or, if you prefer, you'll have the option to earmark the donation from your purchase for only one of these groups. So you're in control of how much we donate and which organizations will benefit.

We think this is a great idea. If you agree, please spread the word about the sale and the donation. If you or your friends are already planning on buying a Permanent Account, let them know the best time to buy is during the first 36 hours of the sale, starting on June 21st 2007. You can sign up to be notified via email right when the sale starts.

Then bookmark this page: http://www.livejournal.com/shop/view.bml?item=paidaccount. That's where you can go to purchase your Permanent Account once the sale begins.

We know that other actions count too, so we're actively working to make our policies more transparent and our actions accurately reflect the will of the community. To this end we are working on:

  • Clarifying our policies so that it's easier to understand what kinds of content Six Apart is either unwilling to host or legally unable to host.
  • Building an automated system for reporting offensive and abusive content and a reputation engine that avoids the majority or a vocal minority from constraining open and free expression under the policies in above.
  • Clarifying the differences in policies between public and private content, and making commitments about how you can expect us to protect your private content and resist intrusions into your privacy.
  • Creating a forum for making all of this more transparent and predictable.


Each of these steps take time, but we're committed to seeing them through and keeping you informed of our progress, and we will do just that. We are committed to remaining one of the most open and vibrant communities on the web.

Update

Many of you make the rational point that you would like to know about any policy clarifications before buying a permanent account. While there is still some work to do on edge cases and implementation approaches to ensure consistent application of policies, I do believe we can provide you a good deal of clarity on the policies we intend to implement before the end of the day in California today (Wed.). I hope that will help.




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[info]tango
2007-06-19 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Whooo!

Damnit, I need money now.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]steve_savicki
2007-06-20 01:19 am UTC (link)
Where can we find more info on these charities?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]paulovastitas
2007-06-19 10:26 pm UTC (link)
Hm.

Donating is wonderful and all.

But I'm reserving my judgment until I see the clarified version of your policies regarding what you want on LiveJournal. Essentially, until I know whether I'm welcome here or not. A lot of what has happened recently suggests that I'm not.

We'll see.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

In agreement about reservations
[info]perlandria
2007-06-19 10:31 pm UTC (link)
This is all encouraging, but they are not solid answers. Which is fine, for now. I am sure I am not the only person still waiting to see how the Interest=Like thing is handled, etc. The content of that etc. is in the 40K + comments over on LJ News and has been stated repeatedly and well so I won't go into it again. (and again, and again).

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]lizzielizzie, 2007-06-19 10:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schnee, 2007-06-19 10:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fangirlsays, 2007-06-19 10:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]zillah975, 2007-06-20 12:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-19 11:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kuyukly, 2007-06-20 12:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2007-06-20 12:28 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]coldironkiss, 2007-06-20 01:28 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sibylle, 2007-06-20 05:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]krissielee, 2007-06-20 03:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]gubunko, 2007-06-20 01:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]paulovastitas, 2007-06-20 04:07 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]warwolves, 2007-06-20 01:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]carlyinrome, 2007-06-20 02:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]humdrumtown, 2007-06-20 02:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]talonsage, 2007-06-20 06:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]roadstergal, 2007-06-20 04:21 pm UTC (Expand)
Six weeks later, your actions finally CLARIFY your words... - [info]buggery, 2007-08-06 01:22 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]lauramcewan
2007-06-19 10:26 pm UTC (link)
:)

(Reply to this)


[info]rly
2007-06-19 10:29 pm UTC (link)
But I don't want to give money to RAINN.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]burr86
2007-06-19 10:31 pm UTC (link)
So you can choose one of the other four to donate to. Or, buy after the first 36 hours are up. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]rly, 2007-06-19 10:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2007-06-19 10:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]penguinsane, 2007-06-20 12:26 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jigglypuff, 2007-06-21 01:18 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]penguinsane, 2007-06-21 01:24 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2007-06-19 10:31 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]__noroomtobleed, 2007-11-16 12:04 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]rly, 2007-11-16 12:03 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]vikingprincess
2007-06-19 10:32 pm UTC (link)
You are behind the curve. I've already donated $25 a month to RAINN for the rest of my life, thanks to the brouhaha here on LJ. I'd rather they get it than purchase a permanent account, though the permanent account is certainly cheaper.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lezlishae
2007-06-20 12:17 am UTC (link)
Not related at all, but <3 for your icon

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]featherofeeling, 2007-06-20 04:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jigglypuff, 2007-06-21 01:31 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lezlishae, 2007-06-21 01:36 am UTC (Expand)

[info]darthmedusa77
2007-06-19 10:32 pm UTC (link)
I don't think I want to buy a permanent account until you have clarified your policies. I had planned on buying one before all of this happened, but now I am not sure I want to do so.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]troubleinchina
2007-06-19 10:47 pm UTC (link)
That's where I'm at, too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-19 11:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]herbmcsidhe, 2007-06-20 03:55 am UTC (Expand)
6+ year user, and - [info]dawn_again, 2007-06-20 07:11 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]trobadora
2007-06-19 10:37 pm UTC (link)
This is very disappointing. Policies really should have been clarified before the permanent account sale - as it is, how can we commit to a service that might turn out not to actually want us?

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]paulovastitas
2007-06-19 10:42 pm UTC (link)
Indeed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]fierceandsassy, 2007-06-19 10:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moonymonster, 2007-06-20 07:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fierceandsassy, 2007-06-20 08:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]maidenmorticia, 2007-06-19 10:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]esprix, 2007-06-19 10:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ethernight, 2007-06-19 11:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]trobadora, 2007-06-20 11:26 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nidoking, 2007-06-20 02:18 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shadowsound, 2007-06-20 05:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]swagmonkey, 2007-06-20 05:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thesilentsenshi, 2007-06-20 05:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]trobadora, 2007-06-20 05:36 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 07:16 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]desh
2007-06-19 10:39 pm UTC (link)
These are all wonderful organizations. Those of us who don't want to buy a permanent account, can't afford one, or already have one should still considering donating $25 directly to one or more of them.

I'm doing that. Right now. Who else is with me?

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]flexor
2007-06-19 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Anything for Warriors For Innocence?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]maidenmorticia, 2007-06-19 10:57 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ter369
2007-06-19 10:39 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, but y'all lost my $150, or renewing my paid account, due to Strikethrough '07. I can type and read blogs lots o' places on the net, y'know.


We are committed to remaining one of the most open and vibrant communities on the web.

This would be a new commitment on the part of management, right? As the statement is a total flip on the sound bites you gave to journalists before speaking to your customers/users/LJers. I realize apologies have been issued since then, possibly motivated by public relations and the almight dollar. If so, the only way I can make my point is by spending my money elsewhere.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]ronebofh
2007-06-19 11:07 pm UTC (link)
So why even hang around instead of deleting your account so you don't even show up as a number they can show their advertisers? As it is, you just come off as another aficionado of bleating complaints.

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(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-19 11:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-19 11:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emmavescence, 2007-06-20 12:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 01:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]meirionwen, 2007-06-20 01:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 04:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emmavescence, 2007-06-20 01:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]enigel, 2007-06-20 09:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 01:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 01:11 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 03:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 04:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 04:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 04:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 05:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 05:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]twocorpses, 2007-06-20 05:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 05:11 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nicolemarieh, 2007-06-20 05:31 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 06:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]weofodthignen, 2007-06-20 08:34 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 03:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]selki, 2007-06-20 10:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 10:50 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moonymonster, 2007-06-20 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]atalantapendrag
2007-06-19 10:39 pm UTC (link)
I agree with the many other posters; how can you expect us to buy a permanent account before you clarify the issues we've been asking about?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mzcalypso
2007-06-22 06:11 am UTC (link)
perhaps because, judging from some of the rah-rah crowd, 6A knows that you can fool some of the people all of the time?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]aerynvala
2007-06-19 10:39 pm UTC (link)
These four steps are commendable. I will revisit the idea of purchasing a permanent account when I can be more assured that I won't have my journal deleted the next time some ignorant fool threatens you.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]daharyn
2007-06-20 12:59 pm UTC (link)
Icon LOVE.

Also, agreed on all points.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kerr_avon
2007-06-19 10:41 pm UTC (link)
The problem is that *policies* have always been hidden, and do not necessarily match the TOS or the FAQ. And I have seen the FAQ retroactively changed to suit policy that no one knew existed.

*Policy* should be clearly posted somewhere that ordinary LJ'ers will easily find it (somewhere in the FAQ at least) and it should not be retroactive. If policy changes, it shouldn't be used against posts/comments/icons/info page/etc. that weren't offenses at the time they were put up.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kateshort
2007-06-19 11:42 pm UTC (link)
That's a nice theory, but if the law changes, and something is still up that LJ can't host (or doesn't want to host), they have the right to notify you and the right not to host it any more.

It's also important to note the difference between policies and procedures. Recently, it seemed that they followed a policy, but didn't follow a clear procedure. Policies tend to be official, vague, semipermanent documents, while procedures tend to be more malleable and a hell of a lot longer. They also tend to be internal documents.

The first thing in the TOS, as with many TOS's, is that "LiveJournal, Inc., dba LiveJournal.com, ("LiveJournal") provides the following service to you, subject to these Terms of Service ("TOS"), which may be updated periodically without prior notice."

Later on, there's also this in point IX: "LiveJournal reserves the right to modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Service (or any part thereof) with or without notice at any time. You agree that LiveJournal shall not be liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension, or discontinuance of the Service."

They could go out of business next year, and you wouldn't get a refund. That's life as a business. You may not like it, and I may not like it, but that's their policy.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]entropy_house, 2007-06-20 12:29 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]humdrumtown, 2007-06-20 02:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2007-06-20 10:50 am UTC (Expand)

[info]flyboy_fox
2007-06-19 10:42 pm UTC (link)
Agreeing with everyone who wants to see policies before committing to a permanent account. I want a perm account. Badly. But I want to know what I'm agreeing to, first.

Also kinda bothered by "what kinds of content Six Apart is either unwilling to host or legally unable to host."

The legal bit, fine. Totally understandable. But I'd like to know which things that ARE legal that you still 'aren't willing to host' here, because I'm a little concerned about free speech being affected.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]princesskirsty
2007-06-19 10:48 pm UTC (link)
YES!! unwilling to host got me too. well said. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]trobadora, 2007-06-19 10:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]talonsage, 2007-06-20 07:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]blackcoat, 2007-06-19 11:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 01:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2007-06-20 10:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ronebofh, 2007-06-20 03:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moonymonster, 2007-06-20 08:01 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loyalwolf108, 2007-06-20 04:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]emarkienna, 2007-06-20 10:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]loyalwolf108, 2007-06-20 05:26 pm UTC (Expand)
MOAR PICS OF TEH SKINNY LADIES! - [info]theorangecat, 2007-07-21 01:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]oconel, 2007-06-20 08:23 am UTC (Expand)

[info]otana
2007-06-19 10:44 pm UTC (link)
This is a wonderful gesture of goodwill on 6A and LJ's behalf. Kudos for putting in so much effort to take care of damage control after this whole big mess. My faith in this site has been restored. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mosspiglet
2007-06-20 10:55 pm UTC (link)
pussy :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]otana, 2007-06-20 10:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2007-06-21 02:07 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]otana, 2007-06-21 02:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2007-06-21 02:24 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]otana, 2007-06-21 02:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2007-06-21 02:43 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]otana, 2007-06-21 05:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2007-06-21 05:51 am UTC (Expand)

[info]jods
2007-06-19 10:44 pm UTC (link)
I've had my LJ for almost 6 years now. I've been a paid subscriber for I think two of those years... but I'm hesitant about the entire paid account thing.

Like many others have already said - I'd much rather you clarify those policies, you know, first.

(Reply to this)


[info]firefury
2007-06-19 10:47 pm UTC (link)
As so many others have already said, I'm not willing to lay down $150 of my hard-earned income until I know what exactly I'm committing to. Following events of Strikethrough '07, I have yet to see the clarifications of policy that would make such a purchase reasonable.

Kissing up to various well-known freespeech groups is all well and good, but that's not going to convince me to buy a permenant account on a site I could very well wind up unwelcome on.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]shinimegami21
2007-06-21 02:33 am UTC (link)
unrelated but, may i snag ur icon? POTC and strikethrough icons are great together!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]firefury, 2007-06-21 07:10 am UTC (Expand)

[info]humming_along
2007-06-19 10:47 pm UTC (link)
# Clarifying our policies so that it's easier to understand what kinds of content Six Apart is either unwilling to host or legally unable to host.

# Building an automated system for reporting offensive and abusive content and a reputation engine that avoids the majority or a vocal minority from constraining open and free expression under the policies in above.

# Clarifying the differences in policies between public and private content, and making commitments about how you can expect us to protect your private content and resist intrusions into your privacy.


I'd really like to know the outcome of these before I spend 150 bucks on a permament account, so I'm afraid my wife and I won't be buying this time.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]turloughishere
2007-06-20 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Hear, hear!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jonnorthwood
2007-06-19 10:47 pm UTC (link)
I have to agree. Once I have the opportunity to see your policies codified, should they be issues with which I'm comfortable, I'll have no difficulty supporting LiveJournal via continuing to pay, or purchasing a permanent account.

My personal suggestion? Push back the permanent account sale until after everything is codified. You can still donate, we can still buy, and all of us--the you, and the we--will have an opportunity to see what, precisely, we're buying into.

(Reply to this)


[info]mmeubiquitous
2007-06-19 10:48 pm UTC (link)
This is a huge step in the right direction. However, I must agree that it would be appropriate to have things a bit more nailed down before asking people to commit to the service permanently, especially if there is still the fear that a "permanent" account won't be the instant someone objects loudly enough to what you're saying. But hey, the sale doesn't start until Thursday...you've got some time...

(Reply to this)


[info]amokk
2007-06-19 10:49 pm UTC (link)
So what happens if someone with a permanent account gets on one of these hit lists and gets suspended? Do they get a refund? Since the money was spent to have the account for life, as opposed to paid which is understood to be a temporary increase in features for the amount paid.

If I hadn't purchased a perm. account the last time, I would definitely not be buying one this time.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]mosspiglet
2007-06-20 01:18 am UTC (link)
haha you already bought one =p

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]amokk, 2007-06-20 07:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]redscorner, 2007-06-20 04:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thefamiliar, 2007-06-20 07:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kerr_avon, 2007-06-20 01:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jigglypuff, 2007-06-21 01:21 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]entropy_house, 2007-06-21 01:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jigglypuff, 2007-06-21 01:26 am UTC (Expand)

[info]florahart
2007-06-19 10:50 pm UTC (link)
Those are good organizations, and I'd love to give them $25.

However, I'd rather not give 6A the other $125 before the policies are clarified. I think the better choice, for you all, would be, since you know it's going to be a while before you can get things all nailed down, to put off the permanent account sale until you can meet your promises, or plan to have another one as soon as you do, and say so now.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]florahart
2007-06-19 10:53 pm UTC (link)
Also, as long as you're promoting/donating to them, it would be quite nice if this post linked to the four organizations as well as boiling them down to a sentence. Just a suggestion. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]marginalia, 2007-06-19 11:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2007-06-20 03:13 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]deborak
2007-06-19 10:53 pm UTC (link)
This sale should be postponed until the policy revision has been made public.

(Reply to this)


[info]sunnyskywalker
2007-06-19 10:53 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad your working on clarifying your policies and improving transparency. Might I suggest holding the sale after you've done so and posted the results?

(Reply to this)


[info]imaria
2007-06-19 10:57 pm UTC (link)
I buy nothing of the sort until policy is updated and made clear. Results before money.

(Reply to this)


[info]princesskirsty
2007-06-19 10:59 pm UTC (link)
i agree with other comments here you should clarify your new terms before trying to take more money. And your comment "unwilling to host" worries me.

i was going to get a permanent account but i've since changed my mind - i even had the money put aside, but after the strikethrough i spent it on shoes. they're more reliable. i'm even considering not renewing my paid account at all. i'll have to see what you're terms will be before i commit to anything.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]morbidmoony
2007-06-20 06:33 pm UTC (link)
"i was going to get a permanent account but i've since changed my mind - i even had the money put aside, but after the strikethrough i spent it on shoes. they're more reliable."

That's awesome. :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]jigglypuff, 2007-06-21 01:21 am UTC (Expand)

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