Krissy ([info]ljkrissy) wrote in [info]lj_biz,
@ 2006-06-01 16:52:00
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HitBox on LiveJournal
I'm making my first post here in [info]lj_biz (hello everyone!) in order to update you on HitBox and LiveJournal. 

We've known for a while that we need to put a data-gathering solution in place so we can dig deeper into how users and visitors use LiveJournal. We need to be able to tell what the popular browsers, operating systems, and screensizes are, to help us make sure we're designing for and testing the right combinations. We need to know where people get lost on the site, so we can fix problems with our navigation. We need to know what languages people are browsing the site in, so we can better support our translation teams. Getting hard data will let us prioritize, so we know what itches we need to scratch first.

A few months ago, we implemented HitBox, a site-wide data-gathering package. We didn't think our implementation through well enough before we launched, and a lot of people called us on it! Until we could satisfy ourselves that we'd addressed all the issues you raised, we chose to turn it off. We think we've gotten it right this time, and we'd like to let you know about the changes we've made.

HitBox's company, WebSideStory, has a strict privacy policy, and over the last few months the people who work there have been fantastic about making sure we're 100% comfortable with both their legal and contractual items and with their code. They've walked us through everything on a tremendously detailed level, and we salute them for being willing to be so forthcoming -- not many companies would be so comfortable.

People have asked us why we chose to use a third-party service instead of gathering that data ourselves, and the answer's simple: we'd rather spend our development time making things better. Using a third-party service saves us from having to reinvent the wheel, and it gives us a chance to validate our internal statistics. We're confident that HitBox is the right way to get that data right now, and we want you to be confident, too.

How does HitBox work?

HitBox collects a small amount of anonymous information about visitors to web pages, by sending a random, unique cookie to your browser. They then report the information back to us in bulk, again anonymously. They don't see anything that might connect that cookie back to a specific LJ username, and we don't see any statistics on an individual level. On our end, we will be applying the Hitbox cookie to a random sampling of a very small percentage (~5%) of all visitors.

Your Privacy

We know that privacy is important to you, and we know that you trust us with your most sensitive stuff. First of all, we don't send HitBox anything with identifying information. The only thing we send on each pageload is very general data: what browser's being used, the URL of the page, the user's account type (if it's loaded by a logged-in user), and what site scheme and language is being used.

We know that some of our page URLs include identifying information (such as your username, memory category keywords, and so on). We're stripping all that out. For example, http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=news will get recorded as just http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml (It's actually far easier for us to interpret the data when it's anonymized like this.)

We're including HitBox code on most site-schemed pages. We're not including it on any administrative areas (such as the Support area), anything where you have to enter sensitive identity data (such as the credit card pages within the payment and shop areas). We're also not including it on anything within your journal -- including all comment pages. Basically, anything under your subdomain (exampleusername.livejournal.com, and the equivalent for communities) won't have the HitBox code added.

We're also not interested in tracking every pageload on the site -- it would overwhelm us, and we don't need that much data to draw our conclusions. If we make sure that the sample size is truly random, we can get the statistical accuracy we need.

If you're uncomfortable with contributing to the aggregate stat-gathering, you can choose not to by going to the Admin Console and typing "set opt_exclude_stats 1". (You can also go to HitBox's site and turn them off Internet-wide.) We're providing this because we know some people are uneasy with the whole idea and we want to respect that, even though we know it runs the risk of statistically biasing our results.

We think we've done our best to balance privacy and information gathering, making sure to research and test this to the best of our abilities, and we think the results will be positive for everyone. If you have any questions, please ask.



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[info]shamanix
2006-06-02 12:22 am UTC (link)
Oh noes! The sky is falling.

Seriously, thanks for listening when people cried foul.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]voldemort234
2006-06-02 12:35 am UTC (link)
iawtc

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dougs
2006-06-02 12:33 am UTC (link)
Also, thanks for putting an opt-out in place promptly.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schnee
2006-06-02 08:16 pm UTC (link)
I'll second that. It's great to know that at least one site believes in providing an easy opt-out method that actually works and also letting its users know about what's happening instead of silently adding stuff and updating the user agreement without telling anyone. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ladysorka
2006-06-02 12:40 am UTC (link)
I'm sure you're aware of this, but a number of us use programs that block hitbox tracking cookies being placed on us at all - I know that it's one of the many that SpywareBlaster protects against, and a good number of other programs as well.

So, you're still not going to be getting data from those of us that are, well, anal about our computers - which might be slightly detrimental, as we also tend to be the ones who use the esoteric operating systems and browsers, not to mention the computers with very high screen sizes.

*shrugs*

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]prissi
2006-06-02 12:46 am UTC (link)
Well, given that you can opt out of being tracked anyway, I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. :) I mean, those that are anal about their computers would likely run to the admin console to opt out of it anyway, so it doesn't make much of a difference that you block it from your end as well.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]uozaki, 2006-06-02 12:53 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]prissi, 2006-06-02 12:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]patgund, 2006-06-02 09:52 pm UTC (Expand)
in fact... - [info]happypete, 2006-06-02 11:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shamanix, 2006-06-02 12:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ladysorka, 2006-06-02 12:49 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]suppafly, 2006-06-02 12:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2006-06-02 07:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]imc, 2006-06-02 09:57 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sparhawk2k, 2006-06-02 06:04 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]jarodrussell
2006-06-02 12:47 am UTC (link)
Will we ever be able to tap the HitBox info, and maybe use it to track our visitors?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]burr86
2006-06-02 12:51 am UTC (link)
Nope; even if you could, it wouldn't have any information about your journal's visitors (since the hitbox code isn't on any of your journla pages). Probably would be better to get an outside counter and add it into your style?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]steve_savicki
2006-06-02 01:18 am UTC (link)
So everyone gets to see how many times their Livejournal is hit?

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]paperkingdoms
2006-06-02 01:30 am UTC (link)
... except totally not.

We're also not including it [the HitBox code] on anything within your journal -- including all comment pages. Basically, anything under your subdomain (exampleusername.livejournal.com, and the equivalent for communities) won't have the HitBox code added.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]steve_savicki, 2006-06-02 07:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]paperkingdoms, 2006-06-02 07:21 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]steve_savicki, 2006-06-05 01:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]paperkingdoms, 2006-06-05 03:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jennifer, 2006-06-02 07:31 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]steve_savicki, 2006-06-05 01:58 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]flamencanyc
2006-06-02 01:24 am UTC (link)
We need to be able to tell what the popular browsers, operating systems, and screensizes are, to help us make sure we're designing for and testing the right combinations. We need to know where people get lost on the site, so we can fix problems with our navigation. We need to know what languages people are browsing the site in, so we can better support our translation teams.

This is the kind of info that most people I know would be happy to simply provide if asked. I certainly would.

Here's a start:
Safari 1.3.2 (v312.6)
Mac OS X (v 10.3.9)
PowerBook G4 12" (PowerPC G4 (3.3); 867 MHz)
English
I'll let you know if and when I get "lost."

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]kunzite1
2006-06-02 01:32 am UTC (link)
i love your response.

(personally, my primary browser is firefox.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]flamencanyc, 2006-06-02 02:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-02 02:19 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]flamencanyc, 2006-06-02 02:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-02 02:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]notspam, 2006-06-02 08:31 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-02 08:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]trendy_rocker, 2006-06-03 06:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-03 06:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]trendy_rocker, 2006-06-03 06:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]notspam, 2006-06-02 09:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]robynchick, 2006-06-05 05:52 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]flying_blind, 2006-06-02 03:51 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]flamencanyc, 2006-06-02 05:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]flying_blind, 2006-06-02 05:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nancyn, 2006-06-02 06:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-02 12:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]foxfirefey, 2006-06-02 10:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]folk, 2006-06-02 07:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bopeepsheep, 2006-06-02 10:21 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-02 12:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bopeepsheep, 2006-06-02 12:53 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]kunzite1
2006-06-02 01:36 am UTC (link)
this entry is much better than the previous one due to it happening as it's launched, or even before, instead of after.

there are many people on LiveJournal who will be able to call you guys on things if you try to sneak it in. as we caught back then.

thanks for providing an idea of what types of data would be collected. now i'm curious to see what exactly the cookie looks like. i'm sure i'll get one sooner or later. (unless i've opted out already. could try looking at the Perl/JS used.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ex_shattered767
2006-06-02 07:22 am UTC (link)
I think if the second time around had been a repeat of the first, with the sneaky-not-telling-us-stuffs, 6A's office would've received stink bombs via Overnight Express.

Thanks guys for letting is know beforehand (*coughdoanewspostthismonthandtelleveryonecough*), instead of botching it like last time.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-02 10:46 am UTC (Expand)

[info]flying_blind
2006-06-02 03:54 am UTC (link)
What are the chances that this project will get LJ to stop hating me merely because I use Opera?

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]zeronobus
2006-06-02 04:39 am UTC (link)
I've noticed LJ hates newer versions of Opera less than old ones, so maybe some day in the future...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]anotherdream, 2006-06-02 05:57 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]anotherdream, 2006-06-02 05:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]flying_blind, 2006-06-02 11:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]spug, 2006-06-02 04:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nakeisha, 2006-06-02 07:24 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]spug, 2006-06-02 05:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nakeisha, 2006-06-03 07:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]anotherdream, 2006-06-04 04:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nakeisha, 2006-06-04 05:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]spug, 2006-06-04 10:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nakeisha, 2006-06-05 07:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]spug, 2006-06-04 10:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-02 12:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-03 06:28 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ex_shattered767, 2006-06-03 06:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]patgund, 2006-06-02 09:42 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]zhyndra
2006-06-02 04:03 am UTC (link)
In order to "opt-out", you have to allow a cookie. To me, that is not opting out or being respected, but just another invasion.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]museumfreak
2006-06-02 04:18 am UTC (link)
Would you like to recommend a solution for opting out that doesn't involve a cookie?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]zhyndra, 2006-06-02 04:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2006-06-02 06:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shahrizai, 2006-06-02 10:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shahrizai, 2006-06-02 10:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]zhyndra, 2006-06-02 11:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]imc, 2006-06-02 10:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bc, 2006-06-02 12:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]schnee, 2006-06-02 08:17 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-02 12:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sherris17, 2006-06-03 05:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-03 05:51 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-03 06:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fyre, 2006-06-03 09:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mauser, 2006-06-03 04:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fyre, 2006-06-03 06:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]peacheasy, 2006-06-04 02:28 am UTC (Expand)

[info]pauamma
2006-06-02 02:19 pm UTC (link)
When does it go live?

(Reply to this)


[info]delphinios
2006-06-02 07:56 pm UTC (link)
It's because you are being so open and respectful this time around, and have included a visible and effective opt-out method, that I am now perfectly willing to let you track these statistics about my computer and usage habits.

Hope they help!

(Reply to this)


[info]dvord_direwood
2006-06-02 09:05 pm UTC (link)
I'm a firm believer in a person, or business' right to conduct themselves in any way they see fit. They have only to answer to their clientele, and if that clientele will do business with them or not.

That said, the collection of ANY information from someone without their express and explicit consent is not what I consider ethical business practices.

If you wanted to use Hitbox, you should have asked if people wanted to participate. Instead, you forced them to participate without their knowledge. So, not only did you initially botch the implementation (as you've already admitted), but you botched the second go-round by not allowing people to opt-in. You even admit to exposing people who visit my journal to this very same code without giving them the opportunity to opt-in as well ("On our end, we will be applying the Hitbox cookie to a random sampling of a very small percentage (~5%) of all visitors.").

Also, by using a third-party's code you are subject to whatever problems flaws in that code can create. You fail to mention if the data is collected by a third-party then given to you.


I will be cancelling my LiveJournal account as soon as I can get it copied to my computer.

Good luck with your business.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]raventhon
2006-06-02 10:29 pm UTC (link)
They're looking for a random sampling. Opt-in would definitely not provide a random sampling, as the majority of users have no idea how to use the admin console in the first place.

I think they're being totally reasonable, providing both an opt-out option and using the appropriate level of anonymization.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]dvord_direwood, 2006-06-02 10:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fyre, 2006-06-03 10:16 am UTC (Expand)

[info]nodefinitionreq
2006-06-02 09:32 pm UTC (link)
if it's so important to gather this information, why is it necessary to use a third party to obtain it? i'll admit my programming skills are limited to basic java and html, but it seems to me it'd be simpler for you to just add something small in instead of using a third party. i think people would probably be more willing to consider data collection if they knew exactly how it is done and what it is for in plain language rather than being fed what's basically an advertisement. not to mention hitbox is pretty widely labeled as spyware. if you really want and "need" this information, i think you should be willing and able to collect and process it yourself.

and just out of curiosity--since, after all, the great thing about livejournal is how open everything is--anybody know how much it costs to use hitbox, and what percentage of spending that is? hitbox is definitely a commercial endeavor. i was considering upgrading to a paid account since i believe in supporting things i like and believe in. but not when the money is being spent on things like this...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]fyre
2006-06-03 10:25 am UTC (link)
Speaking as somsone who worked on a team designing tracking systems for a small online community, I can tell you that it's fairly difficult to implement something like that from the ground up to do precisely what you want it to do, keep it running, etc...

By outsourcing to hitbox, 6A/LJ is able to take the load off of them to make sure the statistical database is running perfectly, the code executes properly on the back end, etc... The only thing they have to worry about is dropping a small bit of code into their templates, and keeping it from b0rking everything else.

If they did it themselves they would have to:
1) Design a database system to store the statistical information, this would likely have to be different than LJ's primary databases, as they aren't set up for rapid statistical operations.
2) Design a reporting structure to obtain information from said database.
3) Design back-end code to drive the statistical collection.
4) Design back-end code to drive the database implementation.
5) Design back-end code to drive the reporting structure.
6) Implement as small a segment of code as possible to obtain and transmit applicable information, thereby triggering the back-end to store it appropriately.

By outsourcing, they only have to do number six, of which the code is provided for them. If they did it all in house, put a team of, say, five or ten coders on it, they'd have a model they could go live with in about six months. They'd have the complete model, that wasn't b0rking things, occasionally, in about eight to twelve months.

With us, working with a community less than 1/4 the size of LJ, a team of seven, and designing it all from the ground up, four months to beta test, eight months to initial "release", and at sixteen months, we finally had made the darn thing stop breaking randomly, and breaking things randomly.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]crucially, 2006-06-03 12:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]stu, 2006-06-04 08:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]crucially, 2006-06-04 08:28 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]patgund
2006-06-02 09:38 pm UTC (link)
I am a former employee of WebSideStory. (Tech Support and QA Testing, 1998 to 2001. Left to take another job when they "DotCommed")

And I can say with all honestly that unless they have dramatically improved their code since 2002, the stats you get from HitBox code will NOT be accurate at all, especially when it comes to reporting non-Internet Explorer and non-Microsoft Windows systems.

WebSideStory's marketing department is fantastic, but they have a corporate bias against anything non-Microsoft. Which means those LJ users using Firefox, Opera, or Mozilla, those users using Mac OS X or Linux, will NOT BE REPORTED ACCURATELY.

And finally, remember that the data HitBox collects *will* be used by StatMarket. So even if the specific data is not used for marketing, the average of the data will.

I repeat, THEY WILL NOT BE REPORTED ACCURATELY. HitBox is a flawed and inaccurate system, and I think Six Apart and LiveJournal could have done much better.

(Reply to this)

What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of?
[info]marmota
2006-06-02 10:10 pm UTC (link)
We need to be able to tell what the popular browsers, operating systems, and screensizes are, to help us make sure we're designing for and testing the right combinations. We need to know where people get lost on the site, so we can fix problems with our navigation.
We need to know what languages people are browsing the site in, so we can better support our translation teams.


browser type:
No, you don't. Just follow the w3c spec so that it's the *browser* provider's problem if it doesn't work, not yours.

operating system:
No, you don't. At best you just need to know if users have java or not, and you don't need third party spyware for that.

screensize:
No, you don't. Like hell do I need your site or any affiliated sites taking over my whole desktop.

site navigation:
No, you don't. People will *tell* you when they can't find something.

translation:
No, you don't. Users will let you know when the documentation isn't sufficient, you don't need to spy on them to find out. As for content I know of users that post in a particular language because they only want other speakers of that language to read it; translation would be invasive. Besides, there's already babelfish and google for that if your users are so inclined on their own.

Thank you for providing a way to opt out.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of?
[info]raventhon
2006-06-02 10:32 pm UTC (link)
They're running a business, here, and will most likely generate more business if people can find everything easily without having to tell the support staff about it. People, at least early in their LiveJournal experience, are probably just as likely to stop using the service if it frustrates them, and that's lost revenue for SixApart and LiveJournal. Same goes for languages.

Screen sizes? I think they're trying to figure out the optimal layout for base site pages, so as not to have the site look terrible for a decent percentage of users.

Language? You're kidding me, you really think a user should have to use babelfish for the entire LiveJournal site? It lets the staff at LJ determine where their translation efforts will do the most good for the greatest number of people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of? - [info]powerlord, 2006-06-02 11:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of? - [info]catyak, 2006-06-03 08:25 am UTC (Expand)
Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of? - [info]catyak, 2006-06-03 08:28 am UTC (Expand)
Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of? - [info]mauser, 2006-06-03 05:04 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: What corporate pit does this bad idea keep crawling back out of? - [info]sithhappens, 2006-06-03 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Whatever happened to OPT IN policies?
[info]marmota
2006-06-02 10:28 pm UTC (link)
Information for other disgusted users:

The hitbox website opt out page is:

http://www.websidestory.com/privacy/cookie-opt-out.html

Savor the irony that you apparently need cookies enabled for it to work.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies?
[info]raventhon
2006-06-02 10:33 pm UTC (link)
Opt-In will not provide a random sampling, as the vast majority of LiveJournal users are complete idiots who have no idea what the admin console is.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies? - [info]dianec42, 2006-06-03 01:00 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies? - [info]raventhon, 2006-06-03 04:24 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies? - [info]fukaina, 2006-06-09 02:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies? - [info]yinshu, 2006-06-03 01:30 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Whatever happened to OPT IN policies? - [info]crucially, 2006-06-03 12:41 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]lordglorfindel
2006-06-03 12:01 am UTC (link)
Sounds great. Best of luck! <3

(Reply to this)


[info]futureperfect
2006-06-03 12:10 am UTC (link)
why do we always get an "opt out" option with these sorts of things? wouldn't it make more sense to have it as "opt in" instead?

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]sylc, 2006-06-03 11:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]futureperfect, 2006-06-03 03:12 pm UTC (Expand)
Opt out???
[info]shangchi
2006-06-03 12:23 am UTC (link)
As the owner of a permanent account, I have to say that I'm somewhat concerned that LJ is conducting business with a known spyware maker. I don't like the idea that I have to "opt out" of something that I didn't volunteer for in the first place.

I am very happy to say that there is software (Spybot, to name one) that prohibits such services from placing cookies on my computer.

(Reply to this)

This was WRONG
[info]banner
2006-06-03 02:42 am UTC (link)
I shouldn't have to opt out of something like this, I should have to Opt in. As a perm user I do not want any third party gathering any information on me, period. Even with LJ/six apart's blessing.

To be honest I don't even want LJ/six apart doing it.

Trying to sneak this by was WRONG, and you all should really be ashamed of yourselves. Next time, send us all an email and let us know you want to data mine us and ask if it's okay.

Bad LJ, no donut.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: This was WRONG
[info]bedimmed
2006-06-03 05:08 am UTC (link)
Ditto. I'm lucky I checked the main LJ page and saw this, as I'm periodically prone to do (so nothing sneaks by). Ideal? E-mail notification of such a change, then opt-in.

I'm currently on paid time, I've got my blocking proggies too...but this isn't fair to the people who don't know of it yet and I can't really see a good, valid excuse for something of this sort to be implimented. Sorry. :(

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]silverthoughts
2006-06-03 04:09 am UTC (link)
How do you opt out for communities? I want to set this for the communities I run.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]burr86
2006-06-03 05:05 am UTC (link)
Won't matter -- the opt-out only affects the logged-in user; since you can't log in as a community, comms won't be affected or tracked at all

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]crucially, 2006-06-03 12:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]silverthoughts, 2006-06-03 02:41 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]kunzite1
2006-06-03 06:30 am UTC (link)
For those who are sad that the Opera Web Browser is getting the short end of the LiveJournal stick, please read this comment thread.

Thank you for any input that you have. If you do, please leave it there.

(Reply to this)

Re: gathering screen sizes
[info]spodlife
2006-06-03 07:23 am UTC (link)
Please, for the love of the deities, do not redevelop the site to require anything larger than 1024x768. Just because my screen is 1600x1200 does not mean I want my browser taking up the whole screen. I have this acreage so I can see multiple windows at the same time! Ditto goes for multi-screen setups.

Thank you.

Any reason why the statistics gathering server couldn't be hosted in LJ's network? I'm sure it would help sooth the more twitchy members.

(Reply to this)


[info]fyre
2006-06-03 10:35 am UTC (link)
Way to go on doing it right this time, guys. Only thing is, I'd make a log-on notice about this, referring people to this post (or a FAQ page that included all the info from this post), and/or add it to the "did you know" ("that LiveJournal is spying on you?" *grin* kidding). That way, everyone will, at some time or another, see it.

I also think some sort of opt-out button, checkbox, etc... should be added to the edit info system. Make it easier to opt-out.

To the people who are complaining, here's the deal:

NO, your journals are NOT tracked.
NO, your journal visitors are NOT tracked, provided they don't go to any site schemed pages (excluding comment pages) In other words, so long as they stay on your journal, comment pages, archives, or userinfo, they're not tracked.

YES, this information actually will help LiveJournal.

NO, opt-in, as a method, sucks. They're going for a random sampling, and opt-in does NOT provide that, believe it or not.

NO, LiveJournal is NOT the only site to use 3rd party tracking. How many of you are on MySpace, Facebook, or any similar site? They all use 3rd party tracking, much like LiveJournal does... the only difference? LiveJournal is letting you opt-out... The vast majority of other sites, online, don't.

Honestly, this is nothing that any other major online community isn't already doing. LiveJournal's just being nice about it.

(Reply to this)


[info]fyre
2006-06-03 10:44 am UTC (link)
Someone, in their personal journal, brought up a very important bit of questioning about this. It's the first truly good reason for not supporting this, I've seen.

Furthermore, who's to say that the third party (Hitbox) is collecting the info and merely reporting to LJ what LJ wants? Who controls the code? How can it be updated and who updates it? Can it be modified later to include more and nobody be the wiser?

Those are questions we should have answers to.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kunzite1
2006-06-03 10:55 am UTC (link)
the code is obfuscated in such a way that it's really hard to read.

who really knows what the hell it does?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]crucially, 2006-06-03 12:44 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-03 12:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-04 07:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-04 07:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]burr86, 2006-06-04 07:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kunzite1, 2006-06-04 07:51 am UTC (Expand)

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