Skittish Eclipse ([info]foxfirefey) wrote in [info]lj2wordpress,
@ 2006-06-09 13:00:00
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Research list filling out
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Each category now has related links to possible solutions or resources to form the basis of new solutions.

STUFF WE WANT TO REPLICATE

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[info]donutgirl
2006-06-09 08:11 pm UTC (link)
I'd love to see recommendations for (or at least analyis of) various webhosts, as well. I started up a test wordpress.com blog (ie, hosted by wordpress), but discovered that it is a LOT less versatile than the self-hosted version of wordpress. Right now I'm hanging out on an LJ clone because it's familiar and a lot cheaper than most webhosts, but I'm open to wordpress if I can find a decent host who doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 08:17 pm UTC (link)
They have their own recommendations here. I personally know someone who went with Bluehost.com, and I've bought Dreamhost.com hosting for my little sister and both of those seem to be doin' okay. I also have hosting at 1and1.com and their $5 a month might suit you; I think they have a 3 month billing cycle as well, instead of a yearly charge.

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[info]donutgirl
2006-06-09 08:29 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. Those are all great, but it's hard for a decent webhost to compete with LJ clones that cost only $15/year. I'll definitely keep this option in mind, though, for when my finances in a happier state. Right now it's an indulgence I just can't justify.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 08:41 pm UTC (link)
How does deardonut.com get hosted?

Also--if you find a few friends who also want hosting, most of those web plans have enough space and bandwidth and databases to host more than one person if you all pitch in. That might help drive the financial difficulty down to an acceptable level. For instance, I know that with 1&1, an extra domain is only $6 a year.

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[info]donutgirl
2006-06-09 09:12 pm UTC (link)
I got the webhosting for dear donut years ago from a start-up called Dr2.net. They were giving it away for $14.95/year when I signed up, and guaranteed never to raise the price for early adopters. Two buy-outs later, I still get the $14.95/year price, but the reliability and customer service (which used to be stellar) are in the toilet. Dear donut is down as much as it's up these days, and I had to stop using my email addresses there because I couldn't deal with the all too frequent three-day outages.

Tell me, though: what do you have against LJ clones? When it comes to friends pages, open ID, threaded comments, protected posts... the clones have it all, minus the 6A management team. Yes they have ads, but that doesn't bother me because they never promised they *wouldn't*, so it isn't an issue of betrayal. And paying for ad-free service is *way* cheaper than buying webspace to run wordpress.

The only problems I have with the clones are
1) can't figure out any way to import my old entries
2) it's very off-putting for non-users to comment unless they are willing to use OpenID or sign up for their own account. But that was true with LJ as well.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 09:25 pm UTC (link)
I have my 1&1 hosting for $10 a month instead of $20 since I was on an early promotional gig, where I got free hosting for two and a half years and then decided to upgrade to their promotional "pay and you can get all THIS" gig.

I actually don't have anything against LJ clones, really. (Except maybe GJ was a bit naughty about taking code at some point.) Or at least, the only thing I had against them is I didn't want to be on a service with advertising. It's not a horrible against them, either, it's just that LJ didn't, so that's where I stayed. (And paid! I felt it was important to support the service.) Although I guess being on an LJ clone means you'll always be behind when it comes to the latest feature updates, so that might deter some. The 6A management team does more coding and fixes than any of the clones; the clones can just leech off of them.

Well, now LJ has advertising, too, and I don't want to sign up for an LJ clone--I don't consider them stable in the long term. (Remember when, oh what was it, uJournal died?) On the other hand, I already have OODLES of hosting, and so far WordPress has looked the most promising as for what I'd want to convert to. Thus, this community. You're right--paying for ad free service is cheaper than buying webspace to run WordPress. But a lot of people, like me, already have webspace. We just need the research and technical know how to try and convert our LJs onto WordPress and try and maintain the nifty features from LJ we've come accustomed to.

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[info]donutgirl
2006-06-09 09:33 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I get that. And if my webhost hadn't recently gone in the crapper, I'd be in the same boat with you. But just as you worry about the stability of LJ clones (a fair point), my bad experience with Dr2 makes me worry about the stability of webhosts, especially cheap ones.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 09:35 pm UTC (link)
Definitely. The difference between the stability of webhosts and the stability of an LJ clone, however, is it's A LOT easier to move from webhost to webhost than it is to move from LJ clone to LJ clone--see your earlier comment about difficulties/impossibility in transferring your LJ over to an LJ clone.

Granted, it does take money and the good webhosts generally aren't the cheapest, and not everyone can afford it.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 09:27 pm UTC (link)
And when I say I have OODLES of webhosting, I do mean OODLES.

Like, 150 GB of space and 1,500 GB of bandwidth a month oodles.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 08:28 pm UTC (link)
In other words, I'll be trying to set up Wordpress on 1&1 and Bluehost.com, because I'll need to test it out and get familiar with the system and find the plugins that will bring the features I like in LJ to it and develop them if they don't exist. Livepress! Wordjournal! Woo! Hahaha.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-09 09:31 pm UTC (link)
# Importing LJ - yup
# OpenID integration - Not for comments there, but irrelevent, as you can fill in the "your site" box. For comments here, create a Typekey account that links to it ( http://www.typekey.com/matgb )
# "Friending" and filters - "blogroll" and no, although you can password protect some entries
# Integration with gallery software or gallery plugins - seen it done, don't know how
# Threaded comments - seen it done
# Polls - seen them done via pollhost
# Integration with sound/video media - no idea, dial up means I avoid such things
# Templates/Layouts - not tried, from what I can see, flexible, but you really need to know what you're doing. Bit like LJ in that regard.
# Userpics (haha) & metadata - pics I've seen done, but not as flexibly as on LJ, the latter, um, what is?
# Acceptable hosting - MySQL database and a bit of bandwidth, can cost, can be cheap, you might be able to piggyback for free.
# Static page that can be used as a profile - Yup, WP can do lots and lots of static pages
# Comment management--screened? - "moderated", same thing, but the person that made them can't see them either.
# Spam management; we often don't think about this since LJ takes care of it for us - annoying, from what I've heard, but doable
# Desktop posting/management clients - exist, don't use them
# LJ-cuts - "the fold", same thing, done differently.
# Tags - "categories"

That's just from experience, I'm still not decided for my new political blog about what to use, WP, MT or Blogger, each has advantages and disadvantages.

My host only allows one MySQL database, so I'm holding off the decision until I'm ready to implement fully.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 09:37 pm UTC (link)
# Importing LJ - yup

Want to COMPLETELY import--with comments. That might be trickier than the default import they provide.

# OpenID integration - Not for comments there, but irrelevent, as you can fill in the "your site" box. For comments here, create a Typekey account that links to it ( http://www.typekey.com/matgb )
# "Friending" and filters - "blogroll" and no, although you can password protect some entries


My secret fetish is to have filters like LJ except based on OpenID.

# Integration with gallery software or gallery plugins - seen it done, don't know how
# Threaded comments - seen it done
# Polls - seen them done via pollhost

Hrm, pollhost is third partied; would want a controllable and integrated solution. Would also want to be able to transfer previous LJ polls onto WordPress.

# Integration with sound/video media - no idea, dial up means I avoid such things
# Templates/Layouts - not tried, from what I can see, flexible, but you really need to know what you're doing. Bit like LJ in that regard.
# Userpics (haha) & metadata - pics I've seen done, but not as flexibly as on LJ, the latter, um, what is?

metadata-- mood, music, etc.

# Acceptable hosting - MySQL database and a bit of bandwidth, can cost, can be cheap, you might be able to piggyback for free.
# Static page that can be used as a profile - Yup, WP can do lots and lots of static pages
# Comment management--screened? - "moderated", same thing, but the person that made them can't see them either.

Maybe OpenID integration would let the person who made it see them if they did it via OpenID.

# Spam management; we often don't think about this since LJ takes care of it for us - annoying, from what I've heard, but doable
# Desktop posting/management clients - exist, don't use them
# LJ-cuts - "the fold", same thing, done differently.
# Tags - "categories"

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[info]donutgirl
2006-06-09 09:39 pm UTC (link)
I've heard that, while it's possible to import LJ entries to WP, WP will automatically post all your old protected and private entries as public. Is that so?

If so, people might want to keep that in mind before importing everything and handing the new wordpress URL to their moms. ;)

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Hahahaha, yeah. That should be researched, too.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-09 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Probably true, haven't tried it, can't say. I've no (current) plans at transferring my LJ, I'll back it up using LJbook and similar every so often but not take it anywhere else, currently.

So, essentially, if you do import, you need to be aware and go back through looking for the locked stuff I guess. Most of mine is pulbic anyway, only work related stuff isn't for the most part.

But finding out if it's possible would be cool, and the dream of OpenID based filters is a cool one, but I doubt WP is the platform for it, given that each blog is separate, rather than all linked as in LJ.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-09 10:14 pm UTC (link)
But finding out if it's possible would be cool, and the dream of OpenID based filters is a cool one, but I doubt WP is the platform for it, given that each blog is separate, rather than all linked as in LJ.

But the whole point of OpenID is to help make disparate websites work together so they don't have to be linked! I think. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to do it on the website itself; I'm not so sure how to do it or whether it's possible in an RSS feed, that's all. But that's what I'm aiming for, anyway.

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[info]sasuko
2006-06-15 05:55 am UTC (link)
I'm not sure, but I've heard the same thing myself.

On top of that, all your posts will go into the "uncategorised" category (which some people find annoying), so a fair bit of resorting needs to be put into place (so I hear, at any rate).

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[info]rachelfrancis
2006-06-19 08:08 pm UTC (link)
# "Friending" and filters - "blogroll" and no, although you can password protect some entries

Actually, with a couple of plugins you can filter categories to certain user levels easily. ^_^

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and I just read this again--OpenID for comments isn't totally irrelevant. It's a way to ensure that the person who made that comment owns that URL. Sure, people can identify themselves, but without OpenID, they could lie about what they are. I guess for most people that may not be a problem, but for others who are troll susceptible, it could be.

Also, if we made a list that only allowed certain OpenID users to comment, it could be controlled like it is on LJ.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-19 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Hmm, you're right; I hadn't realised before that OpenID was checking if I was logged in when I've used my typekey account to comment, just checked, and it does the redirect thing to log me in.

That is useful, in a way. Open ID is supported by Typekey, which means that there would be people out there prepared to create WP support for it; anything MT can do, WP should do better, right?

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 08:34 pm UTC (link)
I've seen OpenID plugins in my researching, but none of them seem to have a couple of features that I need.

My guess is a lot of the above features are available, seperately, but not quite where we want them. We will probably need to integrate several plugins together.

We could call ours LivePress, hahaha.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-19 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Nah, WordJournal, it'd be more "street"...

I'm thinking you need to get some plug in developers, possibly even set up a proper fork. Um, if you do, I'll, um, do user testing? Or something that, y'know, requires no actual coding experience (or ability)...

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 09:30 pm UTC (link)
Agreed. I can code PHP, so I'll be one of them. But it would probably be better to have more than one coder! Maybe I should post about the people aspect.

I'm so glad I have you guys to help me user test and refine user documentation and instructions. It's very important.

I don't anticipate us forking WordPress itself, if that's what you mean--I think that'd be a bad strategy to do. WordPress already has a cadre of active developers who keep improving it and a flexible architecture we can tweak without forking. It's best for us to figure out how to design plugins that will hook onto that constantly improving architecture.

I get my sister Dreamhost, and they do subversion hosting. I'll ask her whether I can set up a subversion repository. We can do that or go to SourceForge, as well.

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[info]stillcarl
2006-06-20 08:52 am UTC (link)
I don't anticipate us forking WordPress itself, if that's what you mean--I think that'd be a bad strategy to do.

I'd come to the same conclusion. If it's possible to do what we want just with plugins, so much the better.

Oh, and I've just installed WordPress on a free site, (even free of adverts), and will post about the experience soon...

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-20 08:59 am UTC (link)
Cool beans!

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[info]tallblue
2006-06-10 09:00 am UTC (link)
I just imported my live journal account here to WP 2.02. I liked it. Of coarse no comments and all the posts went to a default category even FO and Private. So I had to password protect the directory the blog was in and change all the tags/categories, then I had to change my private to private and my FO I pass worded those posts for now. I am not leaving Live Journal; I just wanted to see how hard it was.
http://www.langsite.com/blog/

I have another blog using WP http://www.langsite.com/myblog/ for some time about my Aquaria, and spam is terrible, they have track backs that disguise as spam! I got a wordpress key from wordpress.com and installed Akismet Plug-in. (I did not get a blog with my account, just the key for the WP on my website)

I do believe that plug-in comes with the latest version (but you have to register with wordpress.com to get a key), I also installed Trackback Validator, for that sneaky spam impersonation! And so after fighting this trackback junk and spam for a year I have no spam!

I am webmaster for a bluehost account until 2007(end of my term) and I think you can just click a button to install the Wordpress. (I would look but am so tired right now) and then import, but you have the same issues with tags/categories and no FO plus changing each post for security to either password, private, Draft or Publish. And also the plug-in for the spam and the trackback garbage.

With Bluehost I am using the xoop content management software.


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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-10 09:46 pm UTC (link)
I know that bluehost.com has one click install because it's a featured host by them, and that's one of the requirements. It's good to hear that there's methods to combat the spam!

Thank you very much!

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[info]sasuko
2006-06-15 05:53 am UTC (link)
I like this idea, really. Since I've got some webspace myself lately, I've been trying to set up wordpress on it--and seriously, the fact that the features aren't on par really makes it a deterrent (as opposed to LJ clones).

So far, the main thing for me that I'd like to see the most is the security levels (since it is the thing that sets apart LJ and its clones from non-LJ sites). OpenID integration seems kind of there (according to the plugins that I've seen), though it's restricted only to comments rather than security levels. And I do believe there's already something for threaded comments--but it's really tedious. ^^;

I like this idea, and would love it if it could come into fruitation.

More than anything, though, I've been wondering about the friends page?

I mean, currently on LJ there's a friends page to keep things going. But off site, that friends page doesn't work (since only the entries page has a feed, from what I understand?). It's a major deterrent (at least it is for me) for moving offsite, and that's something that I'd like to see integrated into whatever I move to (if possible). But I half-suspect it'll be near impossible to implement.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-15 06:03 am UTC (link)
Well, you can get a "friends page" kinda using an RSS/Atom reader using the feeds--even with the friends locked entries using auth digest.

It could also be possible to make a webside "friends page" kind of deal, but it would also be based on the RSS/Atom feed. Stuff like LJ-Cuts might not transfer, tho', I'd have to look into that.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-19 08:29 pm UTC (link)
LJ-cuts don't work from feeds, have a look at [info]matgb_lj_fd (which I did via feedburner as a proof of concept).

[info]randompost has a workaround, but that's awful...

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 08:38 pm UTC (link)
Hmm, I just checked and we get the cut ID location, but not the actual LJ-cut delineation. So there's no real good way of entirely duplicating an LJ-cut.

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[info]matgb
2006-06-19 10:00 pm UTC (link)
Ooh. LJ feeds do do something unexpected; look at this treatment of polls.

But yeah, lj-cuts, being non standard code, will be difficult to replicate directly, although "the fold" exists in a lot of software in various ways, and it can be hacked into blogger.

My answer is to always release partial feeds for my blogs, but that's not an ideal solution.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-20 08:58 am UTC (link)
It makes sense that they'd just link to the poll.

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[info]aniraangel
2006-06-19 07:15 pm UTC (link)
Lets see, I use wordpress for my domain. http://crowned-meadow.net

So lets see if we can be any help, despite that I love lj to death.

Importing LJ--with comments and security levels

Can be done, but comments don't transfer Sadly though there *are security levels to an extent,you have to allow user registration and there are numbered levels. Of course this means you have to register at friends sites. There should be another way to do this though.

Comments wont go through yes though, no will the security levels, which have to be changed manually.




OpenID integration

Can be done, I do believe, research needs to be done to get proper pluggins and such, but WP is quite flexible.



"Friending" and filters

This one I'm not so sure about, though it should be plausable.



Integration with gallery software or gallery plugins

Coopermine, I'll fetch the pluggins tomorrow if I can find them =D


Threaded comments

Can be done, love.


Polls

Yet again can be done with pluggins.


Integration with sound/video media


Done it. Pluggins.


Templates/Layouts

But of course! you can even skin them.


Userpics (haha) & metadata

Erm.. I think.



Acceptable hosting

I use surpasshosting.com its only ever been down once and I never lost a file.

Static page that can be used as a profile

Can be done.


Comment management--screened?


Yet again, can be done.



Spam management; we often don't think about this since LJ takes care of it for us

yup, dear ol' pluggins. I do this one. I'll go to my wp later and find it.


Desktop posting/management clients

I think, dunno.


LJ-cuts

Sort of, theres 'read more' links.

Tags

Catorgories!


Wow, I'm quite the nerd.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 08:17 pm UTC (link)
Thank you very very much! I'm glad for your help, I haven't run WordPress extensively before.

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[info]aniraangel
2006-06-19 08:19 pm UTC (link)
xD I've used it several times, but recently got into the more nit picky stuff. *goes to look for the pluggins*

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-19 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Can be done, but comments don't transfer Sadly though there *are security levels to an extent,you have to allow user registration and there are numbered levels. Of course this means you have to register at friends sites. There should be another way to do this though.

Comments wont go through yes though, no will the security levels, which have to be changed manually.

It looks like we'll have to make our own upload plugin. One that keeps security levels, uses OpenID to verify folk, and has a backup system that will allow someone to register if they don't have an OpenID. And inserts "read more" links where the LJ cuts are. (Actually, we might want a plugin that makes more LJ-cutty biz--can you change the text of the "read mores"?)

Can be done, I do believe, research needs to be done to get proper pluggins and such, but WP is quite flexible.

I've seen a couple, but so far none that do quite what we need.

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[info]aniraangel
2006-06-21 01:14 am UTC (link)
Yeah, we will, I dont do much php procraming, I know enough but not engough to write pluggins. Though I can offer up my services as a graphic and webdesigner, if you want templates and such. And I could set up a test site for designs and what not, or anything really.

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[info]stillcarl
2006-06-22 03:51 am UTC (link)
Spam management; we often don't think about this since LJ takes care of it for us

And along with that, backups in case the server goes down. I was reminded of this when creating my WordPress blog - in the host's TOS they mentioned it was my responisibility to keep backups. LJ's been down since I've been using it, but I've never heard of people losing their journals. I doubt that'd be the case with a social service distributed across a wide variety of differing hosts of varing competence.

What would be nice would be a simple, semi-automated way to make backups. For instance, getting a prompt when you're on your blog pages reminding you it's been X number of hours or days since you backed it up, and would you like to do it now? I haven't a clue whether there's a safe way to backup from within the browser, but even a prompt to run a client to do the job would be good.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-22 03:54 am UTC (link)
I think another thing to look into is spellcheckers. We don't generally think about that, either, but it's a factor for some, and I saw some plugins for it yesterday.

I've actually known someone who lost all their posts, but it was a few years ago, and I bet things are more reliable now.

You are right about backups.

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[info]stillcarl
2006-06-22 04:08 am UTC (link)
I'd thought about spellcheckers too. But I suspected there'd be some plugins about, and security of data right from the start seems much more important.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-22 04:10 am UTC (link)
Agreed, we'll need to prioritize. But I'd hate to forget something, even the little details, so I'm listing as much as possible now.

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[info]stillcarl
2006-06-24 12:59 am UTC (link)
Have you forgotten galleries? They'll be important for importing LJs due to pictures being able to be friends' only and such.

Full marks for the MEGALIST! Someone's been busy...

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-06-24 01:28 am UTC (link)
Galleries is under "Integration with gallery software or gallery plugins". I use mine (very slightly). I did install Gallery on my sister's account.

We will definitely need to get OpenID integration into a Gallery solution, too.

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[info]stillcarl
2006-06-24 01:31 am UTC (link)
Ah - my apologies. Seems I'm blind as a bat!

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[info]shatterstripes
2006-07-21 03:51 pm UTC (link)
LJ-to-b2evolution importer - gets comments.

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[info]foxfirefey
2006-07-21 03:57 pm UTC (link)
I should make a whole index of blog software with importers of them on the No LJ Ads Wiki.

WordPress has an importer, but it currently only works with entries.

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Wordpress Importer
[info]getoninternet
2009-03-13 12:18 pm UTC (link)
Yeah i know about the importer its a shame it doesn't import anything else.

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