Chuck Darwin ([info]chuckdarwin) wrote in [info]livejournal_uk,
@ 2006-05-24 01:12:00
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The Male Privilege Checklist
43 instances of how men are better off than women.

This list is full of rash generalizations and woefully short on anything resembling facts, statistics or evidence. Some of the entries are patently true and hard to argue against. Other things on the list are simply untrue, unprovable, or completely based on anecdotal 'evidence'. Some of the issues the author (B Deutsch, whomever that is) chooses to focus on are, in my opinion, embarrassingly petty and do more harm than good to the whole cause.

And before you get pissed off at me... at least this post doesn't have anything to do with Big Brother.

5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.

Anecdotal. Unprovable. As a manager, I have fired people for sexually harrassing men at work.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.

Harsh. Strident. Unprovable. I know single dads that no one has ever called 'extraordinary'.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

Plenty of parents don't encourage any of their children to be active at all.

24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.

Two words: Bill. Clinton.

25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.

Really? All clothing denotes class, IMO. I don't own a single item of designer clothing. What does that say about me as a man?

26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.

Metrosexuals, even? I know men who spend an hour every day getting ready.

27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

Salesmen just want your money, no matter who you are. While it may still happen in rare cases, this is just neurotic tinfoil hattery and an unimportant concern in the grand scheme of women's issues.

31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

This has changed. Not completely, but gender-neutral terms are much, much more common. Splitting hairs over P.C. verbage does nothing to help one's cause.

37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

This one is just plain old insulting.

41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.

Come on, now. This is all based on 'target weight', which is in no way an exact science (and that's as nice as I can be about the 'subject'). No one EXPECTS any woman to be 40 pounds underweight. Some famous models and actresses may try this, but most people actually say it's a BAD thing (reading the tabloids whilst in line to purchase groceries).


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[info]missfahrenheit
2006-05-24 12:22 am UTC (link)
#31 irritates me immensely. CLEARLY WE ARE ALL BEING OPPRESSED BY THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. #25 and #26 I find offensive, and #42 just makes me angry because I know it's wrong, but Google isn't throwing up any helpful statistics I can scream about.

While this doesn't quite fit (there is no 'You, my sisters, let us rise up against the patriarchy and show them what realy womyn can do!'), it does generally support my vague theory about Internet Feminism.

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 12:28 am UTC (link)
...it does generally support my vague theory about Internet Feminism.

Which is (that it does more harm than good to women and their rights)?

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[info]missfahrenheit
2006-05-24 12:36 am UTC (link)
... that it is bollocks, really. Of course there is still Real Feminism, which is good and important and is far less preoccupied with changing the spelling of things, but that special brand of Internet Feminism is just generally rather repellent.

It's more or less the same as Internet Bisexuality, in that yes, there are bisexual people out there and go them!, etc etc, but anyone who prances about the interweb saying 'hur, I'm totally a bisexual! Girls are pretty!' because it gets them attention and in with the cool kids is clearly in need of a slap.

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missfahrenheit, 2006-05-24 12:39 am UTC
#42 is true.
[info]hereville
2006-05-27 06:13 pm UTC (link)
Here's what #42 says: "42. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover."

I based #42 on the Centers for Disease Control's study, which is (as far as I know) the largest and best-conducted study of intimate violence done in the US to date. According to this study, women are 14 times as likely to have been beaten up by an intimate partner at some point in their lives than men (8.5% versus 0.6%).

They also found that men who had cohabited with a male partner were three times as likely to report having been assaulted by a partner as men who had only lived with opposite-sex partners.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: #42 is true.
[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-28 11:12 am UTC (link)
Pleased to 'meet' you, Mr Deutsch. I apologise for assuming you were female. When I first found your list, I was unaware of "Hereville" and your other work.

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Re: #42 is true. - [info]hereville, 2006-05-28 05:41 pm UTC

[info]lauranat
2006-05-24 12:24 am UTC (link)
Most of these are rubbish and do nothing to disprove the idea that feminsim is pointless. Women do have it worse than men in some respects, yes, but this list is just fucking ridiculous.

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 12:30 am UTC (link)
I thought people here might find it ... amusing.

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[info]lauranat
2006-05-24 12:30 am UTC (link)
No, I understand the point of your post, I am just angered by the original list.

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 12:32 am UTC

[info]aflaminghalo
2006-05-24 12:31 am UTC (link)
So where do you stand on the existence of male privilege?

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 12:33 am UTC (link)
That it certainly is still an omnipresent force in the same way that white privilege is... but this list does absolutely fuck-all to help anyone... all it does is harm feminism in general with its shrill tone. No sane person wants to attach themselves to these positions, surely? It's like being a fucking fruitarian.

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[info]laserpubes
2006-05-24 02:00 am UTC (link)
The first half of this one:

37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

Generally speaking, is true. Mothers in full-time employment tend to do far more work than their partners. Sad, but true.

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[info]dyfferent
2006-05-24 09:58 am UTC (link)
This is true whether you've had children or not actually. The standards that offend a woman generally are stricter than those that offend a man, so 80% of the time the woman is going to clean it up before it gets nasty enough to make the man think, "Gee, this needs cleaned up."

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 10:00 am UTC (link)
Again, though, these are just generalizations. Some men are very picky about how clean things are, and some women are slobs. My inlaws are like that.

My wife and I split the chores very evenly.

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(no subject) - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 10:06 am UTC
how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:10 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 10:15 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:19 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:20 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 10:33 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:54 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 10:59 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:16 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:38 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:42 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:50 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:56 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:31 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:39 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:42 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:51 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:57 am UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 12:01 pm UTC
Re: how clean? - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 12:03 pm UTC

[info]hatsumomo
2006-05-24 07:28 am UTC (link)
It is true that women sleeping around are seen as sluts and men are not though. Bill Clinton got a hard time for cheating on his wife and lying when he was the President, not because he was promiscuous.

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 10:01 am UTC (link)
He got heat from the conservatives for being promiscuous, as well. Hugh Grant didn't do himself any favours, either.

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[info]hatsumomo
2006-05-24 10:13 am UTC (link)
I think celebrities are one thing, when it's family, friends or colleagues it's very different. I see it time and time again that a guy wont go out with a girl because she's a "slag" yet he's slept with more people than her.

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hatsumomo, 2006-05-24 10:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hereville, 2006-05-28 10:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-28 12:20 pm UTC

[info]dyfferent
2006-05-24 10:39 am UTC (link)
His two affairs are something they used, certainly, but it's not the reason they gave him heat. Before it was his lack of fitness and his eating habits. They were after whatever they could get.

Generally I can't think of a male celebrity that has jokes about being promiscuous floating around, can you? Nothing like this one:

What's the difference between Joan Collins and a Kit-Kat?
You can only get four fingers in a Kit-Kat.

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:13 am UTC

[info]droojit
2006-05-24 08:29 am UTC (link)
8.I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.

Dunno about you, but I was certainly taught that.

22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.

So how come car insurance is so much higher for men, just because we are men?

26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.

Today's market has this one truth - if you are willing to pay £100 for a bag, or shoes, you will be charged that.

28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

Huh, i'm not conventionally attractive and the disadvantages hit me every day.

31 is just so stupid as to not merit repeating : shold our species be called huperson beings?

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[info]roguesolo
2006-05-24 09:02 am UTC (link)
I remember reading about the cost of car insurance in regard to the gender of the policy holder.

You'll have to excuse me as for one, I can't remember where I read, nor the exact details, but it went something along the lines of the following.

"Men tend to have to pay more for car insurance as they are more likely than women to be involved in a high speed accident. High speed accidents tend to cause lots of damage, and often the vehicle is found not to be economically repairable and is 'written off'. Women, on the other hand, tend to have more accidents, but they're low speed, low impact collisions, typically only needing less expensive repairs."

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:02 am UTC

[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 10:04 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I was just saying that since women do the majority of clothes shopping (increasing demand) they set the higher prices themselves. It's free market economics.

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[info]anthon1
2006-05-24 11:49 am UTC (link)
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.

So how comes I've never heard the female equivelant of 'boy racer' applied to a young lady driver? *shrugs*

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(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 12:02 pm UTC

[info]misspotsitt
2006-05-24 08:57 am UTC (link)
While in general I agree with you, number 9:

"If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question."

does ring true. I do find people who think I'm a selfish bitch for not wanting to have kids or that it's just a phase and my hormones will change my mind for me eventually (and I guess if they don't it's an indicuation that I don't have any or something?).

Generally I find it's women who give other women who choose to remain childfree a hard time though. There are many who don't understand why someone would want to make that choice.

Overall however while I don't think there is totally equality, I am not in favour of women going looking for examples of prejudice, and I think that the idea that men have it easy makes men more reluctant to seek help when they are having a hard time, and preconditions our society into being less sympathetic towards them when they do.

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[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-24 10:03 am UTC (link)
I think this varies a lot depending on where you live, what class you are, and how much £ you earn. A lot of professionals are putting off having children until very late in life...

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(no subject) - [info]misspotsitt, 2006-05-24 10:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misspotsitt, 2006-05-24 10:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misspotsitt, 2006-05-24 10:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 10:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyfferent, 2006-05-24 11:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hatsumomo, 2006-05-24 11:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hatsumomo, 2006-05-24 11:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chuckdarwin, 2006-05-24 11:26 am UTC
I've posted the first of a few responses to this...
[info]hereville
2006-05-29 11:27 am UTC (link)
Hi, Chuck. Livejournal won't allow me to post a response this long, but I wanted to let you know that I've posted the first of a short series of responses to your criticism of the male privilege checklist, here on my blog.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I've posted the first of a few responses to this...
[info]chuckdarwin
2006-05-31 09:52 am UTC (link)
Thanks very much, Barry; it is much improved.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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