linguaphiles: hawaiin language

bblliinnkk (

bblliinnkk) wrote in

linguaphiles,
@ 2004-12-09 10:26:00

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hawaiin language
Hawaiin has a seperate language, right? I heard there are only 12 (I think) letters, is that right? Is it very hard to learn? Are there any good websites on it? If anyone knows about the language, or speaks it, and is willing to explain it to me, that would be appreciated a lot :)

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sixunneuf
2004-12-09 03:31 pm UTC (link)

I've spent summers there, and it's as close to a dying language as I've ever seen (around 1000 speakers, most rather old). Very few people in Hawai'i speak it – the closest it gets is a creole, only it's a very weak creole: I can count the number of words that Hawai'ians use in everyday speech on one hand (here, I'll do it right now: o'hana means family, kama'aina means neighbor [used to mean "local"], keiki means child, aloha means hello and goodbye, mahalo means thank you, pow means done...and...that's about it). And even then, the "creole" is as much for marketing purposes – seen mostly in commercials (kama'aina or keiki discounts are popular) as for everyday speech.

People are trying to revive the language, but quite honestly, it's failing. The main problem is that the natives – the ones who actually spoke Hawai'ian at some point (there are a lot of Asian influences) – suffer from the same problems as most indigenous Americans: rampant alcoholism, poverty, and poor education. These do not bode well for the reintroduction of a language into society.

As for the alphabet, yes, there are only twelve letters. But writing is complete artificial; before Europeans came, there was no system of writing.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	bblliinnkk 2004-12-09 03:35 pm UTC (link)
	thats so sad, it shouldnt't die out! (Reply to this) (Parent)

timwi
2004-12-09 04:18 pm UTC (link)

I can count the number of words that Hawai'ians use in everyday speech on one hand...

You forgot the famous humuhumunukunukuapua'a!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	joeyheartbear 2004-12-09 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	smallest fish, yes? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	um yeah (Anonymous) 2006-02-12 01:01 pm UTC (link)
	actually isnt that the liek state fish, or something? I would seriously love to beable to speak Hawaiin, but it kinda seems hard to me, heck im barley able to speak English and it is my first language,lol.... speach problem:) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jkrissw 2004-12-09 05:26 pm UTC (link)
	a lovely little trigger fish. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jkrissw 2004-12-09 05:25 pm UTC (link)
	Don't forget okole (bottom/butt) and the ever popular "Okole maluna!" (Bottom's up!). pupule = crazy hapai = pregnant puka = hole ipu = gourd drum Comment in haolegirl's journal and invite her in here to comment. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

maldito
2004-12-10 03:24 am UTC (link)

I cannot believe that when it comes time for people to mention Hawaiian words used in Pidgin, they always omit "pau". Upon moving to the mainland, that was one word that I had the hardest time breaking the habit. Finish, done, complete, over, terminated....they all were covered by pau! I never ever used "aloha". If anything, it was in class when we had Hawaiian language. *L* That's it! Oh wait, I always use it in letters. I always have, but I don't say it out loud...ever. Unless I'm speaking Hawaiian of course.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	pullupgirl 2004-12-11 10:46 am UTC (link)
	me too. I always say pau and get funny looks. Only other words like that which come out talking to mainlanders are haole (although I usually I try to stop myself) and hapa (don't really like the alternatives) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-11 03:13 pm UTC (link)
	Hapa? Hmmm. L Haole I use. My friends know those words too, that I commonly use. Popolo, Haole and Mahu are the 3 important ones. LOL (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

pullupgirl
2004-12-11 08:40 pm UTC (link)

Well okay, hapa I usually force myself to used mixed, half-half or whatever but it just feels so wrong. Plus I think hapa is starting to become popular in the hapa community. I don't like white or caucasion much either. I think I'm just a little uncomfortable with the meaning things get on the mainland which is different (for the most part) than at home. The mainland words feel harsh and loaded. Not that haole never has any bite to it, but that is usually in context!

Oh not hawaiian words but the little bit of pidgin that sticks in my speech all the time is "still yet" and "try" as in "try bring me that book"

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

maldito
2004-12-11 08:46 pm UTC (link)

Try? LMAO I stopped that awhile back. But soooo easy for me to use it. Of course "wen" was something I also let go of a long time ago, but...I still remember this Punahou grad told me "why you say dat? 'I used to to eat dat all da time'" LOL I then realized I couldn't add the extra "to" in there. I dunno, that may seem not too Molokai of me to do that, but also exists with other groups of people too.

I never use hapa, never did. I did use hapa haole growing up, but that's about it. And "aloha", unless I am speaking Hawaiian is a word I have a hard time saying, even if my cousins speak English and then they part with "aloha"....hard for me to respond the same way.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

pullupgirl
2004-12-11 09:07 pm UTC (link)

It's very strange when you realize that something you have been saying, completely natural to you all your life, strikes other people as weird!
For me, my speech is pretty mainland with just a slight Hawaii influence on intonation patterns, vocab, and pronunciation (though the linguists at the institute I went to kept stopping me and telling me this and that about how I spoke!) but anyways, just every once in a while some little thing I say people will look at me weird, and I'm like what? OH, I nevah knew!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

maldito
2004-12-11 09:12 pm UTC (link)

My intonation comes back every now and then. Only one of my friends will comment on my pronunciation saying I sound like I'm from NY, but that's ONLY when I get too excited and not pronounce my R clearly. :)

It was this same friend that thought I was weird for saying "package" instead of "paper bag". Hahaha

Oh, and the most common feature to which today I still may do occasionally thanks to pidgin, is omitting the "s" in the 3rd person sing. I still say (sometimes).....

he eat
she write
Jonathan open the door for me

LOL

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	pullupgirl 2004-12-11 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	I think maybe aloha seems over used.. it's been so commercialized and its like jingoistic, and everybody uses it. I don't recall folks really using it in normal speech growing up, so its not really a natural part of my vocabulary. Sometimes I'll head up an e-mail with aloha, but that's about it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

maldito
2004-12-11 09:14 pm UTC (link)

It is over used and that's why I have this mental block. But if I use it in Hawaiian, it's always aloha kakou, or aloha kaua, aloha mai, and/or aloha no. Never just "aloha". However, since I was young, i've always wrote it in closing of my letters. I don't start off a letter/email with it.

And same here, growing up, even if I come from a place w/ lots of Hawaiians, not many people use "aloha". Probably only Oahu b/c of the tourists. lol

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	oops maldito 2004-12-10 03:25 am UTC (link)
	I realized she wrote "pow" which I overlooked. L (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: oops funkyjazzmonkey 2004-12-11 05:32 am UTC (link)
	What's the L? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	maldito 2004-12-09 11:37 pm UTC (link)
	People are trying to revive the language, but quite honestly, it's failing. Actually, that is incorrect. It's exactly the opposite. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	choomi 2004-12-10 01:17 am UTC (link)
	Agreed. I learnt in my Anthropological Linguistics class that it has been one of the best language revitalization programs ever. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-10 02:18 am UTC (link)
	It really has come a long way. And if I remember correctly, they've already had 6 years of graduating seniors from these schools. It apparently is the only U.S. indigenous language school that exists and I wish that other Native Americans could do the same. (Reply to this) (Parent)

The language of Hawai'i
(Anonymous)
2007-11-24 07:27 am UTC (link)

I just got back this morning from my first week in Kaua'i and I was very disappointed in not hearing more of the island language. I tried to learn a lot of the 'key' words before we went, but hardly anyone spoke the language. I am sorry that it is a dying language and my husband and I had many talks about why the native language was not spoken more, but you made some good points as to why it is so.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2008-04-03 07:35 pm UTC (link)
	Pow...are you sure? Chech ur spelling. mahalo (Reply to this) (Parent)

Linguaphiles
(Anonymous)
2008-04-15 01:04 am UTC (link)

Thank you, Sixunneuf. I had a few online Hawai'ian friends, and none of them wanted to teach me Hawai'ian! But, they always asked, "Why do you want to learn it? I know of a tape course, if you send me $500/$1000 --name your price-- I'll send it to you!"

They taught me maybe two-dozen words before they quit teaching me, and I lost all of those words in a malfunctioning computer. Well, now I know why I couldn't get anyone to teach me anything in Hawaiian language. Nobody really speaks it.

Thanks again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

ludwigvantx
2004-12-09 03:37 pm UTC (link)

Olelo Hawai‘i is a Polynesian language, like Maori and Fijian; this group belongs to the Malay-Indonesian family. It does have 12 letters in its alphabet, or 13 if you count the apostrophe (glottal stop). BUT... the vowels can be short or long, and when long, should be written with a macron. So there are really 18 letters.

Consonants: h k l m n p w ‘
Vowels: a ā e ē i ī o ō u ū

I know almost no Hawaiian, so I'm no help beyond that.

Also, don't confuse the actual Hawaiian language with Hawaiian pidgin, which is based on English but conforms to Hawaiian's simple phonology. The famous phrase Meli Kalikimaka is "Merry Christmas", with the changes of R to L and S to K, and all syllables converted to CV.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-10 02:20 am UTC (link)
	BUT... the vowels can be short or long, and when long, should be written with a macron. So there are really 18 letters. YOu know, I thought of this too, whether or not they should count the long vowels as an extra letter or not. But if that's the case, why not do that with other languages whose accent marks indicate a different pronunciation? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

pullupgirl
2004-12-10 11:34 am UTC (link)

Well of course letters aren't really the best way to assess a languages real amount of sound components. For example in english you don't have a letter for th but it is a distinct sound (actually more than one, jeez!) I think linguists usually say that if changing the sound can change the meaning of the word then it counts as a seperate phoneme.. so I think the long vowels count since using one instead of a short vowel can change the word, correct? Maybe I am wrong there since it is the same sound but longer, so it might fall under something other than a phoneme, but nevertheless it has meaning and I think should be counted seperately.... *wishes I studied my phonetics a bit more thoroughly!*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-10 01:40 pm UTC (link)
	I remember in my linguistic class about a distinction, or rather a talk of about the phonetic sound inventory I think it was called. I could be wrong about that. But basically the amount of sounds a language has, and your example of the TH is a perfect example. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	pullupgirl 2004-12-11 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	maldito, in proper Hawaiian pronunciation are the short vowels exactly the same as the long ones except for length? I know generally English speakers tend to shwa the short ones, but I'm not sure if that is the right way to pronounce. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-11 08:48 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, they're just elongated. The pronunciation doesn't change at all. Hmm, and I'm trying to give you examples but can't think of any off hand. But yes, they are nothing more than lenghthened, that's it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

funkyjazzmonkey
2004-12-11 05:41 am UTC (link)

You're right, all the vowels would count to a linguist. I don't know how much you already know but I just took a phonetics class, so it's fresh in my mind. I don't know any Hawaiian, so here's French:

La - feminine definite article
Le - masculine definite article

That's a minimal pair, where the difference of only one letter changes the word entirely. And of course, English:

but
cut
rut
gut, etc.

So it's the sounds that are important, not the letters, cause right here in English we've got extra vowels. Somewhere around 12 in all? I'm not sure. But we've also got the short vs. long sounds, and diphtongs as well (a mix of two vowels, so the word or letter "I" is actually two vowels - say it very slowly and you'll see)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluehenboy 2004-12-09 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	puliki a honi!!! = hugs and kisses in Hawaiian (Reply to this)

	jkrissw 2004-12-09 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	I suggest you post a comment in haolegirl's journal and invite her in here to answer. (Reply to this)

pullupgirl
2004-12-09 07:41 pm UTC (link)

or you could post to maldito who is a Hawaiian speaker.

There are actually quite a lot of Hawaiian words that we Hawaii folk use on a daily basis... they kinda sneak in there. Pidgin is actually a creole, which with no formal study on my part seems to be mostly english with a sorta simplified grammar and pronunciation (d instead of th) then some Hawaiian words as well as token words from various other languages (Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, etc).

It is very rare to come accross someone who speaks Hawaiian as their first language. It was very suppressed for a long time, but now there are a lot of immersian schools and it is (I think) the most popular language to study here. It is also the language of the island of Ni'ihau.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-10 12:01 am UTC (link)
	It is very rare to come accross someone who speaks Hawaiian as their first language. Yup. Things will change once these graduate begin marrying, have children and then that cycle (speaking Hawaiian) is introduced. (Reply to this) (Parent)

maldito
2004-12-10 12:00 am UTC (link)

Hawaiin has a seperate language, right?

Yes, Hawaiian is a language all on its own, 1 out of 2 official languages of the Hawaiian islands. It is a Polynesian language, just as Tahitian, Marquesan, Rapa Nuian, Tongan, Samoan, Maori and many others are.

Is it very hard to learn?

No difficult than any other language I think. :)

Are there any good websites on it?

There is http://ahapunanaleo.org whose website has a lot of language learning material. But as for learning it online, no. I think http://hawaiianlanguage.com may still be working.

I heard there are only 12 (I think) letters, is that right?

Depends on who you ask. There are actually 13.

1) a
2) e
3) i
4) o
5) u
6) h
7) k
8) l
9) m
10) n
11) p
12) w
13) `

No. 13 is the 'okina or glottal stop. Hawai` is word that has the 'okina.

If anyone knows about the language, or speaks it, and is willing to explain it to me, that would be appreciated a lot :)

Contrary to what the pessimistics will say, the revival of the Hawaiian language has grown tremendously. I believe Ethnologue's count of Hawaiian speakers is still inaccurate from what I saw last, but the number of speakers have grown the past 20 years. I think it was in 1983 or 1984 when a group of Hawaiian academics realized the quickly declining rate of native Hawaiian speakers. They found that more than 60% (I think it was around 80%) of these speakers were well above the age of 60. I thought the statistic before was that they counted less than 20 speakers of Hawaiian under the age of 20.

Later, this same group decided to follow the Maori's way of reviving the language, through pre-school, and so they created 'Aha Punana Leo, loosely translated as the language nest. The school started off small. The school had native Hawaiian speakers that only spoke to the children in Hawaiian. Later after these kids left school (going to kindergarden) they realized that they should continue with the same program. So they incorporated in a few of the public schools what is known as KULA KAIAPUNI. Loosely translated, school surrounded by the sea.

As the interest grew, the demand for teachers who spoke Hawaiian grew. More teachers (such as my step-aunt) had taken crash courses at the university to learn Hawaiian so that they could incorporate Hawaiian into the curriculum.

The schools grew and number of speakers grew as well. And to the surprise of those who never believed in the schools, more than 95% of these students continue on with higher education versus those that attend regular English medium schools.

There was controversy years back b/c "English" wasn't introduced until the 2nd grade. The entire curriculum is done in Hawaiian.

I swore I had written a post with specifics of these immersion schools, the number of students plus an estimate amount of students in college who were studying Hawaiian language to give a much more accurate count of the number of Hawaiian speakers.

http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?authas=oiwi

But I can't find it! It's there somewhere. Maybe I forgot to book mark it, but it's there in the

oiwi community.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	tisoi 2004-12-10 03:14 am UTC (link)
	13 consonants is right. A glottal stop is a consonant. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	maldito 2004-12-10 03:18 am UTC (link)
	13 letters, not consonants. LOL 1) h 2) k 3) l 4) m 5) n 6) p 7) w 8) ` 8 consonants 1) a 2) e 3) i 4) o 5) u 5 vowels 8 consonants + 5 vowels comes out to 13 letters. LOL (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	tisoi 2004-12-10 03:33 am UTC (link)
	letters, consonants same difference! hehe (Reply to this) (Parent)

statistics

maldito
2004-12-10 03:13 am UTC (link)

Ok, I found the stats on the number of speakers.

Here is a list of students enrolled in the Hawaiian immersion schools for the year 2003 - 2004. It is broken down by each island, then the name of each school on every island. PUNANA LEO is the preschool while KULA KAIAPUNI is K - 12.

HAWAI'I - 439

Punana Leo o Hilo - 19
Punana Leo o Kona - 9
Punana Leo o Waimea - 13
Ka 'Umeke Ka'eo (K-6) - 122
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Waimea (K-5) - 15
Kula 'o Nawahikalani'opu'u (M-12) - 141

MAUI - 266

Punana Leo o Lahaina - 18
Punana Leo o Maui - 30
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i 'o Nahi'ena'ena (K-4) - 42
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Pa'ia (K-5) - 105
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i 'o Kalama (6-8) - 39
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i 'o Kekaulike (9-12) - 32

MOLOKA'I - 164

Punana Leo o Moloka'i - 20
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Kualapu'u (K-6) - 97
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Moloka'i (7-11) - 47

O'AHU - 917

Punana Leo o Honolulu - 19
Punana Leo o Kawaiaha'o - 24
Punana Leo o Ko'olauloa - 17
Punana Leo o Wai'anae - 15
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i 'o 'Anuenue (K-12) - 330
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i 'o Ko'olauloa (K-6) - 61
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Nanakuli (K-6) - 108
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Pu'ohala (K-6) - 123
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Waiau (K-6) - 129
Kula 'o Samuel M. Kamakau (Pre-12) - 91

KAUA'I - 125

Punana Leo o Kaua'i - 18
Kula Kaiapuni Hawai'i o Kapa'a (K-10) - 82
Kula Ni'hau o Kekaha (K-12) - 25

NI'IHAU - 41

Ke Kula o Ni'ihau (K-12) - 41

GRAND TOTAL - 1,952

I had a discussion with Bill Wilson, one of the people responsible for the creation of Punana Leo. We talked about the number of speakers today. This was back in August of 2003. He estimated 2,000 in the immersion schools (as shown above) then said that there were about 100 students that graduated from these schools, and mentioned other numbers, counting those that did begin with the immersion schools but left while in their early teens, counted the number in the community colleges and universities, the number on the island of Ni'ihau, the community of Ni'ihau people on the island of Kaua'i and roughly estimated a good 3,000. I believe in the mid 80s it was estimated that there were only 1,000 speakers.

(Reply to this)

	hawaiin language (Anonymous) 2007-10-11 03:15 am UTC (link)
	I know hardly anything about hawaiin culture but i do know that it does have 12 leters in the alphebet (Reply to this)

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GRAND TOTAL - 1,952

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