zzzing ([info]zzzing) wrote in [info]libertarianism,
@ 2008-07-01 11:03:00
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Increasing the cost of switching
http://www.mainstreet.com/theres-law-takes-away-money-if-you-leave-us-citizenship


"Congress just passed a new law that will stop your capital -- or at least a good portion of it -- at the border, should you decide not to be a U.S. citizen anymore. Is it, perhaps, in preparation for the possibility that Americans might rebel at the debt and taxes incurred by their government by leaving for lower-tax locales?

You probably didn't notice this little provision inserted into the Heroes Act of 2008, passed by Congress on June 17. The headlines in the press release about the law were about the increased benefits for veterans and families of deceased military.

But Richard Kohan of Price WaterhouseCoopers drew my attention to one section of the act, which states that anyone voluntarily giving up his or her citizenship will be taxed on all of his assets as if he or she had sold them -- paying capital gains on assets that have increased in value, even though they have not been sold.

That's right. While everyone in the media is focused on keeping aliens out of America, Congress has voted to lock its citizens - or at least a good portion of their assets -- into America! Maybe they're thinking that patriotism won't be enough to keep the smart money from recognizing the coming increases in the tax burden."


I tend to think that the high cost of switching governments is the main thing that gives the state its power, and if you decrease that cost, governments will be more swayed by the market. So if the cost were zero or close to it, all governments would be doing everything they can to make citizens happy and want to live in their jurisdiction. Increase the cost, and governments have more power to do things that citizens don't like; since each citizen has to weigh the cost of leaving against the various things they don't like about the government. The scales just tipped a little bit more in the wrong direction.



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Repeat of history from other countries
[info]lucy_chronicles
2008-07-01 04:10 pm UTC (link)
Britain raised taxes on the wealthiest in the 70's. There were a rash of people leaving the country and moving money all over.

the same is happening in America. most are not renouncing citizenship however but becoming dual citizens and/or simply earning money outside the country so it is not subject to US taxes.

there are many ways to skin a cat. what sucks is that our government continues to take more and certainly that one must play a game to keep any earned anything away from them.

it's becoming harder and harder to 'starve the beast' as a rationale to change things.

lucy

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Re: Repeat of history from other countries
[info]gentlemaitresse
2008-07-04 12:23 am UTC (link)
Money earned outside the US by US citizens is still subject to income tax, according to the IRS.

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[info]ghoststrider
2008-07-01 05:44 pm UTC (link)
And this fires a magic bullet through all those claims of, "Well, you don't like it, just move!"

I always found those to be asinine "arguments."

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[info]misterhand
2008-07-01 06:30 pm UTC (link)
that's it.

moving to new zealand.

endofstory.

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[info]kiwiserg
2008-07-02 04:15 am UTC (link)
Nope. Thesamestory.

US tax burden: 30.8%
NZ tax burden: 39%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_freedom_day#Tax_Freedom_Day_Around_the_World

Better consider seasteading :)

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[info]volkris
2008-07-02 01:13 pm UTC (link)
That's not the end of the story, though. I don't have time to read their paper at the moment, but calculation of the tax burden can show numbers much higher in the US once things like corporate taxes and debt-financed spending are included. Some economists go forward and attempt to calculate the indirect costs of sucking resources of the economy.

Plus, that number is going to be higher for a person with more income, which is also the person who will have the option of moving to NZ.

Point is, a 30.8% US tax burden may be severely understating it. I have no idea what the tax burden in NZ is really like.

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[info]kiwiserg
2008-07-03 02:08 am UTC (link)
I have :(

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[info]gwreddragon
2008-07-01 08:47 pm UTC (link)
If you're going to renounce your citizenship, make sure you transfer all of your assets out of the country first.

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[info]seanr
2008-07-02 12:36 am UTC (link)
Transferring assets internationally is becoming easier and quicker, but the regulation/oversight is increasing in an attempt to keep pace. This is a real problem with non-liquid assets like property. The government already has its nose in the buying and selling of land and homes. If they really get serious about this, all real estate agents and anyone involved with brokering a transaction will be required to report to the Bureau of Heroes and Patriots anyone with suspicious activity.

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[info]italiangm
2008-07-01 08:47 pm UTC (link)
The house bill described in the article was introduced on 4/30/2008 and currently sits in Ways and Means Committee. There are no amendments from committee yet, and none of the original text as filed describes anything that would "...stop your capital -- or at least a good portion of it -- at the border, should you decide not to be a U.S. citizen anymore..."

Just to make sure, I scanned for other bills. As far as I can tell, no bill is ready for whitehouse approval, or been signed into law around June 17 that fits the description.

Perhaps you could be more specific?

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[info]gunslnger
2008-07-01 09:15 pm UTC (link)
The act referred to is the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2008 which became law on June 17, 2008. Section 301 is the part referred to.

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[info]italiangm
2008-07-01 09:24 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I always prefer to read the text for myself.

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[info]demonhellfish
2008-07-02 05:02 am UTC (link)
Anyone who claims that paying capital gains is going to remove "a good portion of" your wealth is clearly not in any position to bitch about the cost of government.

But hey, freedom is having all your money, and it just as much freedom as the next guy gets, even if he has a tenth as much money.

</sarcasm> And for those who missed it: You can't have it both ways. Either wealth does impact freedom, or it doesn't. If it does, wealth equalization is good for liberty; if it doesn't, paying your taxes isn't bad for it.

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[info]gentlemaitresse
2008-07-04 12:27 am UTC (link)
wealth equalization is good for liberty

So theft is good for liberty. Got it.

I find it ironic that you just said "you can't have it both ways," and then made statements that indicate that you think *you* can have it both ways. Either way, you posit, taxation is not bad for liberty.

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[info]demonhellfish
2008-07-04 07:09 am UTC (link)
Look, I know you're one of the more delusional assholes in this community, but even you should be able to tell the difference between:

"Poor people have just as much liberty as rich people, because wealth doesn't affect liberty."

and

"My liberty is deminished because I have less money when I pay taxes"

No, wait, you probably can't. Here's a hint: the amount of wealth you have after taxes depends not just on your tax rate, but also your starting wealth.

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[info]napoleonofcrime
2008-07-04 08:15 pm UTC (link)
How about this, then: it isn't about the relative amounts of money. It's about being deprived of your property, or the fruits of your labor, by force. That disrespect for private property and self-determination is the threat to liberty.

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[info]losergeekneil
2008-07-06 05:05 am UTC (link)
Liberty isn't a direct correlation to the amount of dollars one owns. A 1% tax is just as bad as a 10% tax, as it is just 1 theft, no matter the amount.

A mugging is a 1 crime, no matter if they only take 10% of the content of your wallet, 100% or none.

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