| Hello everyone!
For fun, I have been wondering about a Latin rendering of the name of my home state, Idaho. I had always assumed for no intelligent reason that the states all had "official" neo-Latinate names floating around somewhere, but if so then I have had no luck finding them online. Unfortunately, the word Idaho is of disputed etymology, and sometimes considered an invented word, but is almost certainly not Indo-European and thus we have no recourse to an easy antecedent.
The only attested form I have come across is the bontanic epithet in Sisyrinchium idahoense (for Idaho Blue-eyed Grass). Would it be safe to assume from this that idahoense would be the best form for an adjective to take? I don't recognize that kind of ending from my brief Latin studies but it sure does remind me of the ending of, say, the Spanish estadounidense ("American [citizen]"), although I'd have no idea of how to begin declining it.
The simple answer might just be that Idaho is an acceptable nominal form (which, to my uninitiate brain, looks grammatically masculine). But assuming so, would the occurence of an -o ending in the nominative, dative, and ablative forms cause too many hiccups to be convenient (making it more convenient to push it into some other declension, irregular or otherwise?). Being that seemingly most Latin place names were feminine (and being that Idaho is referred to in many cases as "her"), I suppose one might just shift the noun into *Idaha, and decline accordingly, but such a solution seems half-baked and inelegant. But what then? Adopting the more typically masculine *Idahus does not seem any better.
One offered etymology of the name is from the "Kiowa-Apache (Athabaskan) idaahe "enemy," a name applied by them to the Comanches" (link). I suppose a soul more creative than I might extrapolate some imaginary pseudo-Latinate noun from idaahe, but it seems scarely more hospitable than our present Idaho.
Tangentially, it looks like there is some sort of a tradition of re-spelling State names to accord with Latin pronunciation (Washington > Vasingtonia). Hypothetically, following that might one suspect something like *Aedaho?
I realize this is probably a little over-thought and probably quite silly, but I can't help myself. Did I just get wildly ahead of myself and there is a much simpler answer I have blatantly overlooked? Any thoughts?
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| Distinguish:
1.) sum, es, esse, fui, futurum: to be
2.) edo, es, esse, edi, esum: to eat
I think it's the second kind of esse in the following:
nam cur
quae laedunt oculos festinas demere, si quid
est animum, differs curandi tempus in annum?
(Why do you rush to get rid of things which hurt your eyes, but if something is eating your soul, you put off the time to take care of it for a year? - Horace, Epistles 1. 2. 37 ff.)
John Conington, in rhyme:
You lose no time in taking out a fly,
Or straw, it may be, that torments your eye;
Why, when a thing devours your mind, adjourn
Till this day year all thought of the concern?
Bernhard Kytzler substitutes the "soul eating" by a flat "if it concerns the mind". I'm not sure why:
Warum eilst du zu entfernen, was das Auge stört, aber verschiebst, wenn es um den Geist geht, die Heilung um Jahre? | | comments: 18 comments or Leave a comment |
| Quod si pudica mulier in partem iuvet
Domum atque dulcis liberos, 40
Sabina qualis aut perusta solibus
Pernicis uxor Apuli,
Sacrum vetustis exstruat lignis focum
Lassi sub adventum viri
(Horace, Epodes 2, 39-44)
[But if a chaste wife, assisting on her part [in the management] of the house, and beloved children (such as is the Sabine, or the sun-burned spouse of the industrious Apulian), piles up the sacred hearth with old wood, just at the approach of her weary husband; ]
Apart from the (satirical) romanticising of the simple country life, is Horace alluding to anyone in particular? In other words, are there any guesses who this Apulian husband and wife might be - or are they totally nameless? Are there anecdotes about famous Apulians like Livius Andronicus, Ennius, Pacuvius or Archytas of Tarentum that would fit to that idyll? | | comments: 1 comment or Leave a comment |
| Hey there,
I'd like to ask something about my homework and I know it's not very good, because I didn't have Latin for about a 3/4 year and I feel like I don't know anything anymore, which I think is very sad, because I really liked that subject.
I hope somebody can help me with my weird translation >.<
( Caesar - De bello Gallico ) | | comments: 2 comments or Leave a comment |
| Horace has his slave Davus compare him to a marionette: duceris ut nervis alienis mobile lignum. [You are wielded like mobile wood by alien wires, serm. 2 . 7 . 82.]
That simile has been used before of course: ( Plato, Nomoi 644 d - 645 b )
As well as after:
| | comments: 1 comment or Leave a comment |
| It's been a decade since Latin in HS and I do not have any of my books anymore.
How do you say "May his light be a beacon unto us all" in Latin? | | comments: 2 comments or Leave a comment |
| | Subject: | Pun? | | Time: | 11:04 am |
|
| Hi everyone,
I'm reading an English translation of Paschasius Radbertus's Epitaphium Arsenii. (Translated very literally from the Latin by Cabaniss.) It has a modest supply of puns, and perhaps more that don't translate into English. I've found a pun in English, conversely, and am wondering whether it's just me (probably), or whether this would translate back into Latin as a pun:
"He left no one lukewarm … no one whom he did not spice with the salt of wisdom … He furnished an example of life to persuade virtues and also demonstrated faithfulness of warning 'in season and out of season.'"
The pun being on seasoning.
Is there anything there? | | comments: 2 comments or Leave a comment |
| Hi, everyone.
I just posted a question over at ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/community.gif) linguaphiles, and they suggested that I take it here.
The Question:
Most of us may be familiar with the expression "onus probandi," or "burden of proof." I want something like "burden or memory" or "burden of memorial." Does "onus memoriae" do the job properly?
"Onus memorandi" was also suggested to me, so I wonder what the connoted difference is between those two (I realize it's mainly a difference of tense, but I don't know what that ends up signifying; I seriously have the worst understanding of Latin in the history of time).
( the more complex/abstract details ) | | comments: 10 comments or Leave a comment |
| I just read Satire 1,9 again and for the first time took notice of the relevance of Horace's floppy ears, when he can't get rid of that horrible person he met:
demitto auriculas, ut iniquae mentis asellus,/ cum gravius dorso subiit onus. ... (v. 20f)
[Down go my ears, in donkey-fashion, straight;/ You've seen them do it, when their load's too great.]
Horace's full name is: Quintus Horatius Flaccus. (Flaccus: [of ears] drooping, floppy; [of persons] having pendulus ears.)
Very probably no coincidence. Very probably well-known, but even the oldest insights are new to somebody, in this case, as it is: to me.
The word "auricula" appears a second time near the end: 'licet antestari?' ego vero/ oppono auriculam. ["You'll stand/ My witness, sir?" "My ear's at your command."] (v. 76 f.): Horace offers his ear to that person's opponent in court. To be touched, that is. That symbolic gesture refers to the seat of memory, considered to be in the ear lobes.
| | comments: 2 comments or Leave a comment |
| | Okay, I am trying to figure out a Latin...preferably a colloquial expression that would be the first-century Latin equivalent of "The cat's out of the bag" or "no use crying over spilled milk." Does anyone know an expression that conveys this sense? (Obviously translations don't work here.) My Latin phrasebook is not coming up with anything that I've found yet. | | comments: 9 comments or Leave a comment |
| Sulpiciae Lepidinae
Cerialis
a Severa
Claudia Severa Lepidinae suae salutem. iii Idus Septembres soror ad diem sollemnem natalem meum rogo libenter ut facias ut venias ad nos iucundiorem mihi diem interventu tuo factura si [?]. Cerialem tuum saluta, Aelius meus et filiolus salutant.
Sperabo te soror, vale soror anima mea, ita valeam karissima et have
(Found at the British Museum, when I stayed in London last summer.) | | comments: 4 comments or Leave a comment |
| Hor. Unde et quo Catius? Cat. Non est mihi tempus aventi
ponere signa novis praeceptis, qualia vincant
Pythagoran Anytique reum doctumque Platona.
Hor. Peccatum fateor, cum te sic tempore laevo
interpellarim; sed des veniam bonus, oro.
Quod si interciderit tibi nunc aliquid, repetes mox,
sive est naturae hoc sive artis, mirus utroque.
Cat. Quin id erat curae, quo pacto cuncta tenerem,
utpote res tenuis, tenui sermone peractas.
[...]
Hor. Docte Cati, per amicitiam divosque rogatus
ducere me auditum, perges quocumque, memento.
nam quamvis memori referas mihi pectore cuncta,
non tamen interpres tantundem iuveris. [...]' (Horace, Satires 2 . 4 . 1-9; 88-91)
ΣΩ. Ὦ φίλε Φαῖδρε, ποῖ δὴ καὶ πόθεν;
[...]
ΣΩ. Ὦ Φαῖδρε, εἰ ἐγὼ Φαῖδρον ἀγνοῶ, καὶ ἐμαυτοῦ ἐπιλέλησμαι. ἀλλὰ γὰρ οὐδέτερά ἐστι τούτων· εὖ οἶδα, ὅτι Λυσίου λόγον ἀκούων ἐκεῖνος οὐ μόνον ἅπαξ ἤκουσεν, ἀλλὰ πολλάκις ἐπαναλαμβάνων ἐκέλευέν οἱ λέγειν, ὁ δὲ ἐπείθετο προθύμως. Τῷ δὲ οὐδὲ ταῦτα ἦν ἱκανά, ἀλλὰ τελευτῶν παραλαβὼν τὸ βιβλίον, ἃ μάλιστα ἐπεθύμει, ἐπεσκόπει, καὶ τοῦτο δρῶν ἐξ ἑωθινοῦ καθήμενος ἀπειπὼν εἰς περίπατον ᾔει, ὡς μὲν ἐγὼ οἶμαι, νὴ τὸν κύνα, ἐξεπιστάμενος τὸν λόγον, εἰ μὴ πάνυ τι ἦν μακρός. Ἐπορεύετο δ’ ἐκτὸς τείχους, ἵνα μελετῴη. ἀπαντήσας δὲ τῷ νοσοῦντι περὶ λόγων ἀκοήν, ἰδὼν μέν, ἰδών, ἥσθη, ὅτι ἕξοι τὸν συγκορυβαντιῶντα, καὶ προάγειν ἐκέλευε. Δεομένου δὲ λέγειν τοῦ τῶν λόγων ἐραστοῦ, ἐθρύπτετο, ὡς δὴ οὐκ ἐπιθυμῶν λέγειν τελευτῶν δὲ ἔμελλε, καὶ εἰ μή τις ἑκὼν ἀκούοι, βίᾳ ἐρεῖν. Σὺ οὖν, ὦ Φαῖδρε, αὐτοῦ δεήθητι, ὅπερ τάχα πάντως ποιήσει, νῦν ἤδη ποιεῖν. ΦΑΙ. Ἐμοὶ ὡς ἀληθῶς πολὺ κράτιστόν ἐστιν οὕτως, ὅπως δύναμαι λέγειν, ὥς μοι δοκεῖς σὺ οὐδαμῶς με ἀφήσειν, πρὶν ἂν εἴπω ἁμῶς γέ πως.
ΣΩ. Πάνυ γάρ σοι ἀληθῆ δοκῶ.
ΦΑΙ. Οὑτωσὶ τοίνυν ποιήσω. Τῷ ὄντι γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, παντὸς μᾶλλον τά γε ῥήματα οὐκ ἐξέμαθον· τὴν μέντοι διάνοιαν σχεδὸν ἁπάντων, οἷς ἔφη διαφέρειν τὰ τοῦ ἐρῶντος ἢ τὰ τοῦ μή, ἐν κεφαλαίοις ἕκαστον ἐφεξῆς δίειμι, ἀρξάμενος ἀπὸ τοῦ πρώτου.
ΣΩ. Δείξας γε πρῶτον, ὦ φιλότης, τί ἄρα ἐν τῇ ἀριστερᾷ ἔχεις ὑπὸ τῷ ἱματίῳ· τοπάζω γάρ σε ἔχειν τὸν λόγον αὐτόν. Εἰ δὲ τοῦτό ἐστιν, οὑτωσὶ διανοοῦ περὶ ἐμοῦ, ὡς ἐγώ σε πάνυ μὲν φιλῶ, παρόντος δὲ καὶ Λυσίου, ἐμαυτόν σοι ἐμμελετᾶν παρέχειν οὐ πάνυ δέδοκται. ἀλλ’ ἴθι, δείκνυε. (Plato, Phaedrus 227a; 228a-e)
Neat, isn't it? Apart from the identical beginning of the Horatian satire and the Platonic dialogue, both Catius and Phaidros try to practise their memory, while Horace and Sokrates seek nearer acquaintance to the source itself. (But yes, I realize that "per amicitiam" doesn't exactly equal "ὦ φιλότης".)
| | comments: 2 comments or Leave a comment |
| So Horace knew his Lucretius, big surprise. Still this finding pleased me, as now I know where he probably took one of my favourite pictures from [unless they both have a common source], the one of the Swan and the Bee.
Compare Lucretius' praise of Epicurus (De rerum natura 3 . 6-13) with Horace's praise of Pindar (Odes 4 . 2 . 25-32)
quid enim contendat hirundo
cycnis, aut quid nam tremulis facere artubus haedi
consimile in cursu possint et fortis equi vis?
tu, pater, es rerum inventor, tu patria nobis
suppeditas praecepta, tuisque ex, inclute, chartis,
floriferis ut apes in saltibus omnia libant,
omnia nos itidem depascimur aurea dicta,
aurea, perpetua semper dignissima vita.
[for how should swallow
Contend with swans or what compare could be
In a race between young kids with tumbling legs
And the strong might of the horse? Our father thou,
And finder-out of truth, and thou to us
Suppliest a father's precepts; and from out
Those scriven leaves of thine, renowned soul
(Like bees that sip of all in flowery wolds),
We feed upon thy golden sayings all--
Golden, and ever worthiest endless life.]
multa Dircaeum levat aura cycnum,
tendit, Antoni, quotiens in altos
nubium tractus: ego apis Matinae
more modoque,
grata carpentis thyma per laborem
plurimum, circa nemus uvidique
Tiburis ripas operosa parvos
carmina fingo.
[Antonius! yes, the winds blow free,
When Dirce's swan ascends the skies,
To waft him. I, like Matine bee,
In act and guise,
That culls its sweets through toilsome hours,
Am roaming Tibur's banks along,
And fashioning with puny powers
A laboured song.]
In other words, as Lucretius to Epicurus, so Horace to Pindar. (And I think he expected his readers to remember the quote.)
| | comments: Leave a comment |
| A friend of mine is puzzled by this Latin inscription. I don't understand it either. Can you help her?
BENE
A*T*H*T*H*I*S*S*T
ONERE*POS*ET
H*CLAUD*COSTER*TRIP
E*SELLERO
F*IMP
IN*GT*ONAS*DO
TH*HI
S*C
ON*SOR
T*I*A*N*E
(Sorry, I don't know where it is in CIL. Anyone care to take a stab at what it means?)
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| Hi everyone.
You have all been so helpful in the past, I figured it would be no big feat for you to help me with this one sentence. It's simple, I'm sure, but I have such a hard time putting all the elements together correctly.
Si vis me flere, dolendum est primum ipsi tibi.
I know dolendum est is a passive periphrastic, but it's hard for me to make sense of the rest of it. What I have so far is:
If you wish me to weep, you yourself first must be grieved.
I know ipsi tibi is dative, not nominative, but I don't see any other way these words could fit. Any suggestions?
EDIT: Resolved. Thank you all! :)
| | comments: 10 comments or Leave a comment |
| The magisterial Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (article on 'Sophismata' byFabienne Pironet and Joke Spruyt) says: The sophisma ‘Album fuit disputaturum’ (‘The white [thing] was going to be disputed’) in thirteenth-century Parisian literature was the occasion to discuss all the problems related to the theory of reference in tensed contexts, as well as to refute the positions others held on this very controversial subject. Is that translation (‘The white [thing] was going to be disputed’) correct? Surely 'album' refers to Socrates, i.e. the white [person], and 'disputaturum' is not passive but active. I.e. 'The white [person] was going to dispute'. Certainly the passage below (from the version of the sophisma by Richard the Sophister) suggests so. ALBUM FUIT DISPUTATURUM. Esto quod Sortes fuerit albus et non sit modo albus nec amodo erit albus, et disputabit et prius non disputauit et modo non disputat. Probatur sic: Quod fuit album fuit disputaturum, ergo album fuit disputaturum.Contra: Quicquid fuit disputaturum disputat uel disputauit uel disputabit, album fuit disputaturum; ergo album disputat uel etc. Conclusio falsa, ergo prima. Here.
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| So I very recently found this community. I'm currently in a 3rd year high school Latin class (it's my 4th year, but the Latin program here is seriously psychotic.), and I lost a few (a lot) lessons because of the jump from a mediocre 3rd year class using the Cambridge course to, well, here (it was really startling. I went from the student who sat back and did the homework on the fly in class to the student who is so confused it's embarressing). I'm mostly caught up at this point, but had a question about one thing I cannot seem to figure out:
What's going on with an IDC subjunctive clause? What is it in the first place? How can you recognize them? How do you translate them? Are there sub-varieties (which would help explain my confusion)?
I'd ask a more specific question, but... not really possible. I've received plenty of help regarding these, but it ultimately really hasn't helped (and some confused me more), and my attempts to help myself have failed *shakes head at google*. I'd love it if someone could really help me understand these!
(also, tell me whether to move on to Epic (400) level and read the Aeneid, or take elementary Greek next year! I have to make the choice soon, and while I'd love to take both (and get the totally geeky classical diploma), I am predominantly a science student, need to say as much on my transcript, and am basically way over the credit limit as it is.)
[EDIT: Sorry about that - I did't realize IDC is not a standard term, which would probably explain google fails. I found the subjunctive cheat sheet I thought I'd lost, actually - it says "IDC", and then underneath (hey, I never noticed that) "Indirect dependent clause". And then it says, "Form of indirect discourse: indirect statement, indirect command, purpose, indirect question" (but most of those are on the subjunctive chart seperately? except indirect statement, which doesn't belong on a subjunctive chart anyway.)
So my question is, what does this mean? I have an example from my book: "Dixit Germanos, qui trans Rhenum incolerent, inter se obsides dare." The "qui trans Rhenum incolerent" is the IDC part, I assume - but I don't get what makes this an IDC as opposed to a relative subjunctive clause (although admittedly, if I were to answer it on a test as a relative subjunctive, I wouldn't know which type of relative to write, as I have here purpose, causal, and concessive - I know how to recognize characteristic at least, though) and how to recognize it as one when you come upon it. They just seem to pop up so randomly to me.] | | comments: 32 comments or Leave a comment |
| I'm an animation student, and currently making my degree film, to be handed in this May ... the film itself is based around a subject that I've been fascinated with for a long time, this being alchemy. I'm specialising in 2D animated visuals, and am trying to create a fairly accurate 16th century setting.
Now ... I have to include a section of lip-syncing within my film, and I've decided that this is going to take place in the form of an incantation. It might sound a bit Harry Potter-ish, but I was hoping I might be able to ask you lovely people for some help with translating it from English into Latin! (I've been strongly advised against using English, as the toss-up between out of place contemporary and badly attempted Shakespearean is a horrible one.) Unfortunately, though I did Latin for a couple of years at school and loved it, it's been about 8 years since I've actually tried to translate anything, and even then it was all Latin to English. I've pretty much forgotten everything, sadly! (Though after reading through a few pages of this community, I'm very tempted to give it another go once I have this hand-in out of the way!) I'd be forever grateful, and of course give credit where it's due! :)
( The chant! )
Thanks loads in advance for any help! :D
| | comments: 8 comments or Leave a comment |
| For my homework we were given examples of inscriptions in Vulgar Latin and were supposed to find the "classic" spelling (i.e. how it would have been written in Classical Latin). I would be most grateful if someone could check my work because I'm not too sure about some of my translations. Thanks in advance!
( Here's what I have. ) | | comments: 6 comments or Leave a comment |
| I heard a quote the other day but have no clue as to how to search for it, either in latin or in english. It was told to me in both languages but I'm looking for the latin version. It goes something like, rabbits live in the forest and (beautiful) words live in...? I know that might be a bit vague, but I thought I'd give it a shot.
Thank you! | | comments: Leave a comment |
| Hi all!
I'm translating a poem by Alcuin (I think...) and simply cannot find a satisfying word for "sevum". I'm pretty sure "sebum" would not fit, but "saevum" is also giving me some trouble. Your thoughts? Here is the context:
Dulcis Homere vale, valeat tua vita per sevum,
Semper in aeternum, dulcis Homere vale.
Also, "inrepere" a little further on is driving me crazy. Here are the lines:
Pierio ut tecum liceat mihi ludere versu...
Inrepere aut veterum dicta stupenda patrum
All the translations I know for irrepere seem a little too...strong. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
EDIT: "sevum" actually reads "aevum" (I'm working with a bad photocopy). Thanks anyway! | | comments: 3 comments or Leave a comment |
|
Good day.
For my own blog, I've lately been writing a series of entries entitled "The World's Most Terrifying Penises", dealing with shocking and/or uncomfortable reproductive practices throughout the animal kingdom, with an eye towards some of the comedic implications of same. My next post - which is for the most part already written - is to be on the topic of the Leapord Slug, and one of the jokes I would like to include is the idea that their scientific name (or "Binomial nomenclature", if you will) translates literally to "Slimey, spineless dick-head", owing to the fact that they are slimey, have no spines, and their phalluses extend out of the sides of their heads. No, I'm not joking. Okay, yes I am, but not about that thing I just said.
Anyways! I was wondering if anyone could provide for me a latin name which does indeed translate - roughly, at least - into "Slimey, spineless dick-head" for the purposes of this bit.
Thank you in advance for any aid in this noble endavour. | | comments: 10 comments or Leave a comment |
| I currently translating a letter from Cicero to Varro and came to this:
quamquam nos tot tantisque rebus urgemur, tamen, postquam Urbem intravi, amicos veteres, id est libros meos, rursus colere incipio.
I have translated it as : although we urge so much and so greatly ____ however after I entered the city, old friends, which were _____ me, i began to worship again.
Another section I am stuck with is:
nam non ideo eos legere desirem quod mihi non placerent sed quod in rebus turbulentissimis pudebat me praecepta eorum non observare.
I have translated it as: for i don't desire to read them because they don't please me, but because in this turbulent business __________
Any help would be greatly appreciated!! | | comments: 10 comments or Leave a comment |
| | something i've always wondered about, why is tenebrae plural? Did the Romans think that darkness was a mass formed from discrete shadows? | | comments: 6 comments or Leave a comment |
| Hi everyone. I hope this request is alright - I can't contribute much to the community just yet, since I'm just now working through Wheelock's Latin for my Latin 102 class. We just learned the subjunctive mood (particularly jussive and purpose clauses), and it would be really great if you all could read over these few sentences for me! I've probably made some very awkward choices in English, but I'm just trying to get the bare bones of the sentence correct. Any constructive critique would be greatly appreciated. :)
Ratio ducat, non fortuna.
Let him consider reason, not fortune.
Arma togae cedant.
Let the weapons submit to the toga/garment of peace.
Ex urbe nunc discede ne metu et armis opprimar.
Discede out of the city now lest I am overwhelmed by fear and by weapons. --> it's probably very obvious but I couldn't figure out what discede meant or how it fit into the sentence.
Nunc una res mihi protinus est facienda ut maximum otium et solacium habeam.
Now one of my affairs must be accomplished immediately so that I may have the greatest peace and comfort.
[edit for a typo] | | comments: 12 comments or Leave a comment |
| An easy one, I'm sure for those who did much better in college Latin than I did and who do not have to creep through texts with a dictionary and a grammar book.
So, Caligula's horse. Incitatus. What is the root of his name (incito?) and what would be a loose translation/meaning? | | comments: 1 comment or Leave a comment |
| hello, I have a question for all you latin speakers, for I do not speak it.
I have read your tattoo FAQ, and what hopefully what I'm requesting you guys help me out with isn't against any rules.
I'm planning on getting the phrase "wake up" or "awaken" tattooed on my arm. I've researched it for awhile already, and the main translation that keeps popping up is "excito". I wanted to make sure this was correct, or if there was any other ways of putting it-I've seen a couple different ones. I definitely want "wake up" as in waking up from sleep.
Anything would help! Thank you so much! | | comments: 11 comments or Leave a comment |
| Nearly all of this enormous book now here. It's not the first version on the web, but the other versions are terribly formatted and have little or no navigation. There is still much to do (in particular, section navigation for books 4-18) but it is coherent and readable, mostly. Not to everyone's taste - it's a Latin grammar book written in the early sixth century, which became the source for nearly all grammar written afterwards, particularly in the Middle Ages. There is an article about Priscian (not very good) in Wikipedia here.
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