Koine greek learning community

(chrysologus400)

9:21PM - Basil's Hexaemeron 6.11

Ταῦτά μοι εἴρηται πρὸς ἀπόδειξιν τοῦ κατὰ τοὺς φωστῆρας μεγέθους, καὶ σύστασιν τοῦ μηδὲ μέχρι συλλαβῆς ἀργόν τι εἶναι τῶν θεοπνεύστων ῥημάτων· καίτοι γε οὐδενὸς ἥψατο σχεδὸν τῶν καιρίων ὁ λόγος· πολλὰ γὰρ περὶ μεγεθῶν καὶ ἀποστημάτων ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης ἐστὶν ἐξευρεῖν τοῖς λογισμοῖς, τὸν μὴ παρέργως τὰς ἐνεργείας αὐτῶν καὶ τὰς δυνάμεις ἐπεσκεμμένον. Εὐγνωμόνως οὖν δεῖ κατηγορεῖν ἡμᾶς τῆς ἑαυτῶν ἀσθενείας, ἵνα μὴ τῷ ἡμετέρῳ λόγῳ μετρῆται τῶν δημιουργημάτων τὰ μέγιστα, ἀλλὰ ἐξ ὀλίγων τῶν εἰρημένων παρ’ ἑαυτοῖς ἀναλογίζεσθαι, πόσα τινά ἐστι καὶ πηλίκα τὰ παρεθέντα.

I found this passage particularly challenging. I spent about twenty minutes trying to parse the final word (I should've used Google sooner)!

This post may serve as an inspiration (to someone) to look at some Greek and maybe even post a translation. If you want some help (I needed it!), use Blomfield Jackson's dynamic, 19th-century, public-domain translation I've copied below the cut.

( Translation )

(panache62)

2:33PM - Online Resources?

I've done some searching around, but do any of you have some great online Greek resources that you'd like to share?  I'm looking especially for beginning Greek students who don't really read Greek but are able to use an interlinear somewhat.

Also, if you have any great resources that are not online, I'll take those too.  (I'm interested in internet resources because they're free. :) ) It's nice to know what's out there!

Current mood: curious

(lhynard)

9:13AM - Aramaic Words for "Rock"

I know that technically this is more of a question for Aramaic scholars than Greek or Hebrew ones, but still....

We know that one of the apostles was named Kefa.This is translated by the Gospel writers as Πετρος, which has subtle differences in meaning from πετρα, the former is generally like English "stone" as opposed to the latter being more like English "rock". However, it could also be possible that Πετρος was chosen instead of Πετρα because the former is masculine and for no other reason.

My question, then, is about the Aramaic. Does that language have multiple words for "stone, rock," etc.? And what are they?

biblical_hebrew

(panache62)

1:22PM - Teaching at a church?

This morning my greek prof emailed some of his students to see if we'd be interested in teaching greek as part of an adult education program at a church located a few miles away.  I am thinking this would be something I'd like to do since my schedule this year isn't as bad as last year, and I am becoming very eager to teach greek!

However, I was wondering if any of you have taught greek at a church before.  This would be once per week, and I'm assuming those in the class work full-time, have families, etc.  They will probably not have a lot of time for homework.  I'm concerned that if the class went too fast no one could keep up and put in the time, but if it went too slow then it would get boring for them.  Have any of you had this experience?  How did it go, and do you recommend it?

(panache62)

7:02PM - Septuagint

Next semester my Greek class will be working through parts of the Septuagint.  Almost all of my Greek work has been in the New Testament.  Does anyone know of books that are helpful that they could recommend? 

Thanks!

(zcatcurious)

4:35PM - online libraries?

(crossposted to classicalgreek)

I ran into the Bibliotheca Augustana the other day, which has a modest collection of Greek texts, and was wondering whether anyone else knew of any other such collections online. There is the Perseus Digital Library, of course, but that can be difficult to access at times. There is also LATO, which I often forget, but which references the other two. Are there any others?

Current mood: curious

(chrysologus400)

12:51PM - John 3:1-24

As a follow-up to my last Gk. post, I happily present this translation of John 3:1-24.

I would also like to say that I have edited several parts of my previous translation in my personal LJ, marking changes in bold. My original, inferior translation can still be found in the koine community. I shall follow this procedure in the future when editing translations which I have posted to both LJs.

( Nicodemus )

This translation is the first one that I've done where one can really find things in the Gk. text that cannot be conveyed in the Eng.

For example, in a class I taught on the Bible at my church over the summer, there was one man whose hobby horse seemed to be debating "Protestants" (fundamentalists, I think) about what John 3:7 says. He insisted that it says "You must be born from above" and, according to him, they insisted that it says "You must be born again." I'm not sure why this mattered, honestly, but I was able to explain to him that the Gk. adverb "anothen" means both "from above" and "again." Most modern translators and exegetes believe that Jesus meant "from above" (because later he says that you must be born from the Spirit) but that Nicodemus misunderstood it as "again" (and so asked if one could enter the womb a second time). This sort of misunderstanding is common in John.

Secondly, one must note that the word "pneuma" means both "spirit" and "wind," hence Jesus' referring to "the wind blows where it wills" to explain those born of the Spirit. A related issue is when to capitalize "spirit," especially in the phrase "what is born of the Spirit is spirit." I capitalized the former Spirit because I take it to be a reference to the Holy Spirit.

Thirdly, the "you" of the later part of the story is plural, to contrast with "we." Jesus speaks on behalf of the Xians of the evangelist's day and has Nicodemus speak on behalf of the Jews of his day. This rhetorical anachronism is utilized in John but not in the Synoptics.

Lastly, there is the perennial issue of where to end quotations in John since the narrator speaks in the same fashion as he has Jesus speak. I stopped the quotation after the Son of Man reference, because otherwise Jesus keeps speaking in the third person, whereas it is typical for him to speak in the third person when calling himself the Son of Man.

x-posted to my personal LJ

(chrysologus400)

11:01PM - John 2:13-25

Today my leather-bound Gk. NT arrived (along with the Turabian style guide, the one used by theologians, and a book of Gk. principal parts). Now panache62 and I each have our own Gk. NT and between the two of us we have the two versions that all NT scholars use, so that's handy.

Today I also completed my first translation from the NT, John 2:13-25. And, by coincidence, John 2:13-22 is today's Gospel! So, without further ado, and because it has taken a lot of work to get to this point in a very short amount of time (only ten weeks!), here it is!

( Cleansing of the Temple )

x-posted to my own journal

Current mood: jubilant

(chrysologus400)

12:25PM - Luke 16:15a

kai\ ei}pen au)toi~j, (Umei~j e)ste oi( dikaiou~ntej e(autou\j e)nw/pion tw~n a)nqrw/pwn, o( de\ qeo\j ginw/skei ta\j kardi/aj u(mw~n.

Hi, I'm new to this community and new to Koine Greek this semester. I was just translating the above verse from Luke and couldn't understand the meaning of e(autou\j (acc. pl. masc. reflexive pronoun) in this context. My best guess was to translate it as "self" as in the following: "And he said to them, 'You are self-righteous before human beings, but God knows your hearts.'" Can anyone shed any light on this?

(desniza)

12:43PM - TITULUS CRUCIS

     In 1492, a dramatic discovery was made in the course of repairs to a mosaic in Church of Santa Croce in Gerusalemme (Rome): a brick inscribed with the words TITULUS CRUCIS (Title of the Cross). Sealed behind the brick was a fragment of an inscription in wood, with the word «Nazarene» written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin. 

. . . . . . . . . . הנצ . . . . .
 . . . . . . . B SUNERAZAN SI
. . . . .  R SVNIRAZAN.I 

(desniza)

4:26PM - Beheading of John the Precursor

 (Ἡ Απότομὴ τῆς τιμίας Κεφαλῆς τοῦ τιμίου, ἐνδόξου προφήτου, Προδρόμου καὶ Βαπτιστοῦ Ἰωάννου)

(desniza)

7:35PM - EUCHOLOGIUM (Ottob.gr. 344)

EUCHOLOGIUM of the cathedral of Otranto with a most interesting Italian-Greek text concerning the ceremony of wedding. , XII c. (Ottob.gr. 344)       Puglia

(al_qhadhulu)

5:05PM - Help?

Greetings,

Grandma, here. Re-entry college student, just completed my first course of Latin. :)
Neither of the Ag schools near me (California State University, Chico and Butte Community College) offer Greek. In fact, CSUC offers neither Latin nor Greek despite the fact that just 50 years ago, all farmers' children in the area, got Latin in high school. But, I digress.

I'm hoping this is not a rude question:
I have posted here the text from a Greek magical papyrus in the British Museum. I have the English translation. Hoping one of you may have seen it, previously, and knows of a pronunciation guide an illiterate (me) could use. I tried going through each word, letter by letter. Ridiculous notion.

(w_ockham)

7:27PM - ascii greei

Help! I'm trying to render an old book thing into html, but my Greek alphabet is not up to scratch. I've set up a page here

http://uk.geocities.com/frege@btinternet.com/logicalform/temp.htm

showing the original text with what I think are the roman equivalents of the greek quotations, but would be awfully grateful if someone could take a look in case of any horrid mistakes.

Thanks

(w_ockham)

4:43PM - All Greek to me

Dear Greek friends

I'm asking for help on a Greek question this time! I am translating Boethius Latin translation of Aristotle's On Exposition into English. I.e. not translating Aristotle's Greek, but Boethius' Latin version of Aristotle's Greek. Don't ask why.

It mostly makes sense, but one passage has been very hard. The Latin commentators give different versions of what it could mean (i.e. they didn't understand the Latin either), and, worse, there are at least three versions of the Latin used by different commentators.

This means going to the Greek, and trying to understand why the Latin is so odd. Unfortunately I know no Greek, which is why I'm asking for help. So I enclose a link to an image of the Loeb Greek English corresponding to this passage (at least I hope the Greek corresponds). Followed by a table with

i the Latin, including an alternative version
ii my attempt at translation
iii the Loeb English,
iv Edghill's English translation.

Followed, for those who are really interested, in a 9th century manuscript image which is one of the earliest versions of this text. Grateful for any help.

The link is here

http://uk.geocities.com/frege@btinternet.com/opposition/question.htm

(lhynard)

1:54PM - Greek Textbook Help

This week, I began writing a Koine Greek textbook as a learning exercise and for the purposes of teaching a friend of mine the language. I was wondering if anyone had the time to check it over for me and offer criticism.

In order to read this document, you will need to download and install the Koine font.

In converting to HTML, this document of course became rather messy, so please ignore the formating. ( Read more... )

Current mood: hungry

Current music: silence

(zcatcurious)

5:11PM - What outer darkness?

In Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30, Jesus refers in parables to the wicked being cast into 'the outer darkness', το σκοτος το εξωτερον. This phrase does not occur elsewhere in the NT, nor in the LXX, although there are references in the OT which are similar (e.g., Job 10:22). Does anyone know any other location using the same phrase or a similar one, describing a darkness which surrounds the world, preferably in any Christian or Jewish text written prior to AD 200? I have found some in 1 Enoch and in the OT, and am wondering whether there are more.

Please note that I am not looking for interpretations of the occurrences in Matthew, and certainly not for the Mormon idea under the same English name, but for instances in which that same phrase or description occurs: the enquiry is for textual references to possible sources for the cosmology.

Thanks,
zcc.

Current mood: curious

(chasingthecrow)

8:30PM - Classical and Koine greek...

Hello all :)

I'm an (avid) student of Classical Greek, currently looking for a Koine Greek textbook aimed at those who already know classical greek. (All the textbooks on Amazon seem to be solely for beginners. Not fun.)

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks.

(ohsimba)

9:07PM - I'm excessively new

I was wondering if there is a lexicon out there that is in the Sakae Kubo style (word for word as they appear and in their original order) that is as extensive as a Bauer Danker one (that gives explicit word usage, meaning, and even usages in alternative texts for comparison and erudition?

Perhaps something that hits on the NT and the Septuagint, or even something like it for the Hebrew Tanakh?

Thanks, in advance, for any help.

(mr_ricarno)

8:11PM - NT greek question

A question for you - possibly a bit basic, but I'm just starting out so please bear with me. Epsilon-contracted verbs (such as phile-o, mise-o and metanoe-o) have distinct rules about what the epsilon contracts to in specific phonological circumstances. For instance, epsilon-omicron goes to 'ou', epsilon-diphthong leads to deletion of epsilon. But what about the 3PP of 'metanoeo'? According to the simple rules of contraction, it should become 'metano-ousin', but that looks like too many vowels to me. Shouldn't it contract further, to 'metan-ousin'?