Alisa ([info]sleepsong) wrote in [info]knitting,
@ 2008-11-19 19:50:00
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Current mood: annoyed
Current music:"The Presidents" - Jonathan Coulton

Moth Question
What does it look like when moths have gotten into your wool? Is there often a distinctive residue left on your yarn / knitted piece around the area that's been chewed through?

Also, the type of moths that normally attack wool... Are they great big ones, or tiny little ones?

I'm worried about a potential infestation, but wanted to find out more before putting my yarn in deep freeze and buying a lifetime supply of cedar moth balls.

(Related: Do any of you keep your wool in a cedar chest? Do you find that this was a worthwhile investment?)


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[info]kathrynt
2008-11-20 01:05 am UTC (link)
wool moths are tiny, tiny creatures. They leave frass, which looks kind of like coffee grounds, and some of them have larvae that spin cases around themselves. These cases are about the size of a grain of rice (give or take) and about the same shape, and are the same color as whatever the larva has been eating. If you smoosh the case between your fingers, bug guts fly out.

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 01:21 am UTC (link)
When you say "tiny, tiny creatures," do you mean "little flying brown grains of rice?"

I haven't seen any frass or cocoons. Is this a sign in my favour? Maybe?

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[info]kathrynt
2008-11-20 01:27 am UTC (link)
The entire moth could fit quite handily on my pinky fingernail, with room left over. As for it being a good sign. . . I dunno. Is there any evidence of damage to your yarn?

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 01:30 am UTC (link)
Damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kathrynt, 2008-11-20 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 02:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kathrynt, 2008-11-20 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]corii, 2008-11-20 05:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emmacrew, 2008-11-20 06:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 04:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plsurkity, 2008-11-20 03:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 05:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]acerzen, 2008-11-20 09:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plsurkity, 2008-11-20 07:55 pm UTC

[info]maiden_midwife
2008-11-20 03:25 am UTC (link)
They are small golden colored moths that are about the length of a long grain of rice and about the same width when their wings are not spread open.

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 05:24 am UTC (link)
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, that's them. F*&$.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]emmacrew
2008-11-20 03:26 am UTC (link)
Little flying brown grains of rice could be wool moths OR grain moths. They are almost impossible for non-moth-experts to tell apart, especially while flying.

I, joy of joys, have had to deal with both.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 05:57 am UTC (link)
Short of a couple of unopened packets of oatmeal, I don't have much in the way of grains in my place. So... Probably wool moths.

My deepest sympathies. :(

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]emmacrew, 2008-11-20 07:00 am UTC

[info]wingsrising
2008-11-20 06:50 pm UTC (link)
Actually, I didn't find them that hard to tell apart, at least while they're sitting still. The clothes moths are noticeably smaller and paler, the pantry moths are larger and two-toned. (At least this is true of North Carolina moths.)

Of course most people don't have the dubious advantage of having infestations of both at once to compare them... (My freezer was busy that month.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]emmacrew, 2008-11-20 08:23 pm UTC

[info]morningdragon
2008-11-20 02:10 am UTC (link)
Not to detract from [info]sleepsong's question, but I've recently been finding holes in some of my items, for example and don't know if I should freeze because I've seen no evidence of moths (no frass, no larvae, no obvious actual moths). Any knowledge what a carpet beetle infestation might look like?

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 02:29 am UTC (link)
That's what started my investigation. First I found two holes in my St. Brigid sweater (fortunately easy to fix) and a bunch of holes in my wonderful lovely wool winter coat (grr, real Macintosh, not cool), and then I started noticing the little moths flying around the vicinity of the doors to my yarn closet.

I went into one of my boxes of yarn and stirred around the contents and didn't scare out any moths, so I'm hoping it's just a couple of particularly voracious ones rather than the moth equivalent of a colony, but either way, UNCOOL.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]morningdragon, 2008-11-20 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maiden_midwife, 2008-11-20 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]morningdragon, 2008-11-20 03:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emmacrew, 2008-11-20 03:27 am UTC

[info]kuangning
2008-11-20 03:13 am UTC (link)
Carpet beetles look like ladybugs with different coloring (darker, with more and smaller spots), and if you have them you will notice them on windowsills and at the edges of floors. You likely won't notice anything on the yarn itself except the holes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]morningdragon, 2008-11-20 03:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuangning, 2008-11-20 03:58 pm UTC

[info]maiden_midwife
2008-11-20 03:27 am UTC (link)
Those are classic moth damage holes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]morningdragon, 2008-11-20 03:31 pm UTC

[info]emmacrew
2008-11-20 03:34 am UTC (link)
The frass I think of as more like fine sand, and it also tends to be the color of what they ate.

And if the larva already grew up and flew away, no guts. I'm always happy to find full cases rather than empty ones.

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 06:00 am UTC (link)
Damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn damn.

Damn.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]emmacrew, 2008-11-20 07:02 am UTC

[info]spookygrlfriend
2008-11-20 02:11 am UTC (link)
I keep a lot of my yarn in a cedar lined chest (one of the cheap ones from Target, though) and the rest in an open-air bookcase thingy. At some point I tossed some lavender sachets in there but they're probably pretty old. I haven't had any moth problems. So take from that what you will. The chest was pretty cheap but I don't think the cedar scent lasts that long...then again making lavender sachets periodically isn't really that hard.

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[info]sleepsong
2008-11-20 02:32 am UTC (link)
What do you put in your lavender sachets? Do you just get dried lavender from a store (where does one buy that, anyway?) or do you use lavender oil or what?

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[info]peregrinefalcon
2008-11-20 02:48 am UTC (link)
I put the dried buds in mine.
If you have any space for a garden or at least a big pot, you should grow lavender. The stuff is damn easy to grow. It requires hardly any care after the first little bit, except for harvesting the lavender buds once or twice a year, which is totally easy work.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kightp, 2008-11-20 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nolly, 2008-11-21 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]faecat, 2008-11-21 06:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-21 12:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nolly, 2008-11-21 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-21 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nolly, 2008-11-21 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-21 08:18 pm UTC

[info]finocchio
2008-11-20 03:42 am UTC (link)
You have to get rid of them first. Lavender is a good repellant (as is cedar) but you have to get rid of the crits first.

Shake out all your wool over newspaper and see if you hear crinkly things falling. Freeze, bake, then freeze.

http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/moths.shtml
http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2002/09/40.htm
http://www.textilelinks.com/care/pest.html

there's some links. Godspeed, my child.

::overly dramatic hug accompanied by mournful trumpet music::

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sleepsong, 2008-11-20 01:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adoxerella, 2008-11-20 03:29 pm UTC

[info]spookygrlfriend
2008-11-20 03:58 am UTC (link)
I used dried lavender, most "health food" type stores have it in the spice area (Whole Foods and the like). I've seen dried stems sold in various other places (apparently people use them for new agey ceremonies that involve waving bundles of herbs around.) Toss it in a square of cloth, tie up the top, and voila.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]maiden_midwife
2008-11-20 03:42 am UTC (link)
I have a moth problem. I see the little bastards frequently in my house. I refuse to use pesticides or poisons on my yarn or clothing, but I have been able to stop them from damaging my stuff. When I first discovered that they were after my stuff, I froze the undamaged yarn that had been out in small batches for 24 hours at a time. I washed any knit items that had frass or cocoons on them but no damage that would cause them to unravel if I could do so without felting them. After freezing or washing my already knit garments that are not currently in use, I either put them in plastic bins with herbal moth sachets or used those space bag things with moth sachets in them to keep air and moths out. Now all of my stashed yarn is in plastic bins with herbal moth sachets that I check often and change when the smell fades.

I have been able to get the moth population down by using these pheromone moth attractant traps that I found online:

http://www.shophometrends.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_205083 (look for the "Clothes moth alert trap")

The same moths that eat your yarn also feed on all natural fibers. They prefer wool but will also eat cotton and rayon. Stashing your yarn does not totally eliminate their food supply, so the traps are a good idea. Get enough moth sachets or cedar chips/balls/blocks/etc. to put in your drawers too. They especially love items that have been worn, but they will eat clean fabrics too if there aren't any blankets, hats, coats or other items around that are worn or used multiple times between washings.

I hope this helps and that you can get your infestation under control.

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[info]emmacrew
2008-11-20 07:05 am UTC (link)
They apparently munch on nylon as well, which is mind-boggling!

And don't forget that your cats are a source of natural fiber, and clean out the kitty beds.

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[info]pickleboot
2008-11-20 10:49 am UTC (link)
little, like grain moths. we had a batch of bird seed- treat for the resident parrots that was full of moths and it induced fear in my heart. i went through every bit of yarn nd fiber in my stash, freaked at the thought of wool moths, and thankfully found none. it was nerve-wracking, especially since i cannot use mothballs, and right now our deeps freezer is under mount clean laundry, tm. but- it did force me to organize my stash, put everything into zip lock bags, the fleeces and lage, well huge quantities of aalpaca roving into those huge ziploc bags and get the lavender dryer bags at trader joe's to go in each bin of yarn since i have them all in milk crates on a metal shelf and fleeces/roving/cones/excess yarn that will not fit on the shelving(which is a disgusting amount) in plastic bins with snap lids that have cedar blocks and the lavender dryer bags from tj's in them. we did use the dryer bags for clothes, first, just to make sure nothing we wear would be nabbed, but like i said, it was all traced back to a bad batch of bird food. ugh. not fun. of course the birds did not care- more protein for them, but throwing out nearly three weeks worth of treats for them was painful as it was a special order mix.

good luck. i know that [info]plsurkity listened to me freak out long distance, and my husband stayed up really late one night carefully going through my entire stash skein by skein to make sure that nothing was infested. i can also send you some lavender if need be- i just harvested a huge amount- we planted some, forgot about it all summer/fall, and remembered it in time to go grab the right part in time to get it before it froze. so- if you need some, give a shout. and cedar chests do help- between target and ikea(i think i saw some there last time we went) you should be able to find something to help. the other place to check would be home depot- i know that there are kits right now, and if anyone you know is at all handy, they could easily put one or two together for you.

good luck, and i would send some form of alcohol to you right now, but i have a feeling i am a bit too far away.

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[info]meowa
2008-11-20 02:25 pm UTC (link)
i have't had a problem with my stash, but it is probably not quite as huge as yours...

the trick with moths is that they like dark cramped spaces, so if you can do something about that, that should fix the problem, both with your yarn ans your clset in general. i don't overly stuff my closet and regulary air things out. as i said, this is only manageable if your stash isn't ginormous.

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[info]wingsrising
2008-11-20 06:57 pm UTC (link)
I've had both kinds of moths and managed to get rid of both of them without pesticides via cleaning, traps, airtight storage, and repeated freezing. However, my wool moth population was fortunately not large -- they were only eating one storebought sweater, they didn't get my stash. My pantry moth infestation, on the other hand, was pretty big. (I basically stayed in denial until I poured my cereal one day and some dead moths fell out, at which point I pretty much had to admit to myself that those moths hadn't just flitted in from outside.)

The traps alone won't get rid of the moths, but they can't hurt. I think what they're really useful for is detection. I'd get a few packs and basically use them to monitor the clothes moth population. As long as you're trapping moths, they're not gone.

It sounds like yours are clothes moths, but for people uncertain whether they have clothes moths or pantry moths, the traps can help you solve this: buy a pack of each and see which trap the moths go to! (I did this and it turned out I had BOTH kinds of moths. Joy in the morning.)

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