knitting: Ack! Help! Now with photos!

BlackRayne (

blackrayne) wrote in

knitting,
@ 2006-03-02 02:13:00

Current mood:	confused
Current music:	Right Where It Belongs V.2 - Nine Inch Nails - With Teeth

Ack! Help! Now with photos!
This is my first post here, and while I had hoped it'd be full of FOs, instead I am dire need of advice.

I have been knitting since November, and felt fairly confident so far. But... last night I was looking through a knitting book at a store to see if it was worth getting, and flipping through it I realized something terribly, horridly wrong. Not with the book, though. I knit wrong!

I just did two rows on the blanket I am working on for my daughter to double check, and indeed, my knit stitches are wrong. I knit English (haven't yet had the desire to learn continental, but soon I might), and when doing a knit stitch, instead of wrapping the yarn counterclockwise around the right needle, I go around it clockwise. Mind you, everything looks ok, and it all works out right, but now it's bothering the crap out of me.

My purling is correct, so why I started knitting wrong (and when) is beyond me.

Anyway... I think I am mostly looking for advice, reasons why this is (or isn't) a problem, and sympathy. Yeah... sympathy is good. I have already finished numerous projects (3 hats, 2 scarves, 6 dishcloths, 1 afghan square, 1 kitty toy, 1 sweater for my daughter), and currently have 4 WIP's (another afghan square, the blanket I mentioned already, a Kitty Pi, and an alligator). And I have about three dozen things I want to start. But first... should I finish the WIPs the way I have been doing them then relearn to knit, or should I just say screw the books, I'm doing it my way?

The photos aren't that great, it's raining out so I can't do them in natural light and my flash is grotesquely overpowering. Hopefully there's enough detail in them, though.

(Post a new comment)

froggy_dear
2006-03-02 07:42 am UTC (link)

I understand what you're feeling. I had been knitting for several months when I realized I was knitting wrong (I was twisting all my stitches). And then a month or so after that I realized I was wrapping my purl stitches wrong too!

Personally, I sat down and relearned how to wrap the yarn. It didn't take that much time, and though it felt awkward at first, it soon came naturally, and I'm happy with it now.

While I'm still not the most advanced knitter and can't tell you how your stitches look different doing it your way, they probably do. Ultimately it's up to you.

(Reply to this)

wandersfar
2006-03-02 07:52 am UTC (link)

If you were doing something really horribly wrong and had yarn overs (holes) all over the place, you'd probably've noticed by now.

Since it took looking at a book to figure out you'd had a problem in the first place, I'd say you're fine. If you can't see any errors in your work, it's unlikely anyone else will (unless they're knitters specifically looking for them).

If you're trying to do a particular pattern in a book and it's not looking right and it's bothering you, then I would probably frog it and go here to learn a more conventional method of knitting (Continental or English, it doesn't matter) and begin again. But if your WIP's look alright, and there's no discernible difference btw how they look and how they should look, then why bother changing? Also, it's likely your gauge will be off when switching to a new technique mid-project, which would probably be more visible than just staying with however way you're knitting now.

It might be helpful to learn a more conventional technique for the future, but as for the WIP's, I say stick with what you're doing. Post some pics and I'm sure people'll give you appropriate feedback/advice. Good luck!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Thanks...

blackrayne
2006-03-02 05:07 pm UTC (link)

I have been looking at the videos there, and think I might just finish up the WIPs then relearn. But I won't even begin to try correcting myself until these projects are done. The blanket's going to take the longest, it's barely 1/3 of the way done, and I get maybe 2" done per night when I actually work on it. In all stockinette with very few color changes, it's rather boring.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Thanks... wandersfar 2006-03-02 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	Stockinette is the easiest stitch to see if you're actually knitting anything incorrectly; if you post a pic, people should be able to tell if you're twisting your stitches or doing anything else really wrong. Are you knitting the blanket flat or in the round? You may have some curling problems if you're doing nothing but stockinette... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Thanks...

blackrayne
2006-03-02 09:14 pm UTC (link)

I just added photos. I hope they are detailed enough.

The blanket's flat, and yep, it curls, but I actually like how it looks this way. That may change once it's finished, and if it does, I'll add a fabric backing, a la Wild Stripes. For reference, it's the black one in the photos above (though it's not all black, there's going to be a few rows of a plum color in reverse stockinette).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Thanks...

wandersfar
2006-03-02 11:34 pm UTC (link)

I'm not totally sure, but I think you may be twisting your stitches. It shows up in the cranberry cabling sample (Is that Saxon Braid, btw? That's my favorite pattern!) You can see it in the way the cables lie: if you look closely at the second cable, near the needle, you'll see the left strands of the knit stitches cross over the right. Normally, they won't do that, they'll just come together in a little V. (This site has some good drawings of what I'm talking about.)

You do seem to have a pretty consistent gauge though, and stitches are usually concealed by dark-colored yarn so I would just keep on doing what you're doing, for these WIP's at least.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	misshapen_fro 2006-03-02 07:53 am UTC (link)
	If you aren't twisting your stitches, you're fine. If it bothers you that much, though, just make yourself do it the other way until it comes naturally. I knit combination for the longest and twisted all my sts when working in the round. When I figured out what I was doing, I just re-trained myself. (Reply to this)

lunassa
2006-03-02 11:42 am UTC (link)

My best friend and knitting prodigy did the same as you. It didn't bothe rher until she started doing YO's and they were very small and odd. She took a break, retaught herself, and now is happily knitting away again.

You too may decide that it's worth doing a couple of dish cloths just to get yourself retrained, but don't worry so much. It's easy to relearn it once you get going and it's worth it in the end, at least for peace of mind.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Ooh... blackrayne 2006-03-02 05:08 pm UTC (link)
	I like the idea of doing more dishcloths to relearn. We can always use more, and they are fairly quick and easy. Thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	tlw4m 2006-03-02 12:57 pm UTC (link)
	If you knit really tightly, it might be worth it to change (for future projects though). When I started wrapping the yarn the right way around the needle my stitches loosened up a bit and it was much easier for me to knit. But, that could just be how I hold everything, it might not be a property of the way you wrap the yarn... (Reply to this)

	blairly 2006-03-02 01:13 pm UTC (link)
	I did that for ages, too, but corrected myself and now everything's fine.. and awesome icon. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	blackrayne 2006-03-02 05:10 pm UTC (link)
	and awesome icon Thank you. Trent = pure yumminess. (Reply to this) (Parent)

djinnj
2006-03-02 02:37 pm UTC (link)

The way you wrap your stitches will affect the orientation of the stitches. Most folks tend to wrap their purls differently as it's easier (at least in Continental), which turns it into that thing we call Combined. Combined knitters have to think a bit to modify patterns, but it's not hard.

If you're wrapping only your knits differently, then you've got the same issues as a Combined knitter, only you're arriving at it differently. As long as you're working your stitches open as opposed to twisted, you can continue as you're doing without serious problems. There may be times when you're working patterning in the purl stitches which require accounting for the different orientation, but patterning on the purl row (at least for stockinette) is comparatively rare. As long as you can figure out how to make it work properly when it happens, it shouldn't be a big problem.

If your stitches do not sit on the needle alternating direction, knits "open" in one direction while purls are "open" in the other, then you may be wrapping both your knits and purls opposite of conventional knitting (I have a friend who does this). In which case, you can continue as you are, but every directional pattern stitch will require reworking, and some things such as working an all-over Grecian Plait will require learning to wrap in the opposite direction as they can't be worked without the proper orientation. You'd either have to learn to wrap the other way, or slip every stitch before working it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Thank you... blackrayne 2006-03-02 05:13 pm UTC (link)
	Your explanation helped immensely. I really appreciate it. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

You are fine!!!

neefer_1
2006-03-02 02:41 pm UTC (link)

Here is my rant. I am so so tired of hearing people say that I knit wrong. I knit in the ottoman style of knitting, which means that I knit from the back of the loop and throw my yarn counterclockwise. I am consistant in the this. I am a knitting teacher. Granted I teach the so called proper way to knit, but I design my own sweaters, own a business and am a pretty damn good knitter. If you stitches look proper and you enjoy the way you knit I wouldn't bother to change. It is good to know that you knit differently because you will have to adjust your knitting every so often. Knitting is a process to get to a final project. You don't have to start out the same way as everyone else to get to the end project. If everyone did everything the same way what a boring and sad world it would be.
Thank you for my rant.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: You are fine!!!

kmusky
2006-03-02 04:45 pm UTC (link)

I think everyone's point is not that there is a "wrong" or "right" way to knit, but rather that you have to take how you knit into account to get the pattern to look the way it does as written. Nobody is telling the OP to change how she knits if she doesn't want to, but just to be aware that if a pattern doesn't look right, it could be due to how she makes her stitches rather than a pattern error or her not reading it right. That's all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: You are fine!!!

blackrayne
2006-03-02 05:18 pm UTC (link)

The chaos magician in me likes that I do it differently, and yet, the anal-retentive perfectionist in me is screaming in agony at the same time. Ahhh... such pain it causes me. I think I am going to relearn just because it does bother me now that I really think about it, but I'm still going to toss the patterns across the room whenever possible to satisfy my inner anarchist. ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: You are fine!!!

isitnotnifty
2006-03-03 03:05 am UTC (link)

I'm not quite so oomphy about it. [I know that's not a word, but I'm still using it :-)] But I agree with the sentiment. I'm the product of what happens when a right-handed English knitter decided to teach her left-handed (nearly ambidextrous) grandaughter to knit. (After reading some article on how to modify to teach a left-hander.) My knitting is affectionately refered to by my friends as "back asswards." I basically knit in the reverse of what normal people knit. (It really messes up some forms of patterns for me, like certain cables.) But overall I'm comfortable with how I knit and it turns out ok. If you want to relearn, go for it. But really, there is no right or wrong. After all, it's really all about the yarn in the end.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

jennifer_dunne
2006-03-02 06:09 pm UTC (link)

I ran into the same problem once I switched from simple rectangles and tried doing my first sweater. I couldn't for the life of me get the increases to work, and then discovered I'd been doing the knits "wrong", so the yarn was in the wrong place for standard increases, and just slid off the needle instead of leaving a new loop.

Either relearn the standard knitting form, or find out how to make the increases/decreases/yarnovers/etc. work with the way you do it. For me, it was easiest to just relearn the standard knitting form -- and it didn't take long at all. Maybe just one night of focusing on the stitch and needle placement.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	blackrayne 2006-03-02 07:18 pm UTC (link)
	I've had no problems at all with increases and decreases so far. Whether I've just been lucky with them or not I don't really know. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	jennifer_dunne 2006-03-02 07:39 pm UTC (link)
	Then you're fine. Don't sweat it. :-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cimorenegal 2006-03-02 07:11 pm UTC (link)
	Do you have a photo of your knitting? It is only a problem if your stitches are coming out twisted, which they might be doing since it took me a while to realize mine looked different when i had the problem way back in the beginning. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cimorenegal 2006-03-02 07:11 pm UTC (link)
	PS: all it takes is some practice and you'll soon be wrapping the 'right' way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	blackrayne 2006-03-02 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	I added two photos, but I am not sure if they are detailed enough to tell if anything's twisted or not. Hopefully it won't be dreary out tomorrow and I can retake them without using a flash if necessary. (Reply to this) (Parent)

djinnj
2006-03-02 11:30 pm UTC (link)

It doesn't look like you're working your stitches twisted to me, so you're "finished result fine" (the finished result can't be discerned from something knit in a conventional way). The first piece looks "normal" which substantiates variation being on the knit row as opposed to the purl row. Since the last row was a purl row, all the stitches look conventionally oriented. This would be different in the round, of course, where everything would be "backwards".

The 2nd piece clearly shows your differently oriented knit stitches. I can't tell if you're accidentally twisting stitches anywhere, but it doesn't seem like it. Since it's a straightforward knit/purl pattern under the cables, it shouldn't be a problem continuing it as long as you're not working stitches twisted. You may find some oddness cropping in if you have to shape the edges for something (armhole shaping or what have you), but that's easy enough to adjust for by slipping stitches as necessary. And it'd only be a problem if you have to do the shaping on a right side row, since you'd be working off the "backwards" purls.

The only issue I have with working this way is that you get less benefit from working unconventionally like this than you would working Combined. Of course, you have less to adjust for than Combined, but there are some really great benefits from being able to do both conventional and Combined knitting which don't translate to this technique.

If you're curious about how orientation influences a piece, you can look at my mini-lesson on Combined knitting. It's not complete, but it gives the basics.

(Reply to this)

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