Annie ([info]out_there) wrote in [info]inthetallgrass,
@ 2005-11-15 14:09:00
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WW Fic: Ask a Scientist (it's quantum physics)
Title: Ask a Scientist (it's quantum physics)
Fandom: West Wing
Pairing: Josh/Donna. Sam/Josh overtones.
Rating: G
Summary: There are some things Donna knows; there are others that she doesn't want to admit.
Spoilers: Set vaguely post-S4. Since S5 is a haze of Toby-annoyance and I've only seen halfway through that season, I can't vouch that it agrees with current canon.
Disclaimer: Originally Sorkin's. Certainly not mine.
Notes: Finished as part of the [info]wip_it_good challenge (I just forgot to get it beta'd). Thanks to [info]oxoniensis and [info]celli for support. Thanks to Ben Lee for the title. Huge thanks to [info]meadowlion for tracking down my stray tenses, correcting my comma-usage, and making this story far more readable.


Ask a Scientist (it's quantum physics)

Donna knows that Josh likes her. Not just in the 'thank god you're my capable assistant and can deal with this for me' way. It's more of an 'if I wasn't your boss' and 'if we were in a bar somewhere' kind of way.

It's not a big thing. On the level of things that they handle daily, it's just a small thrill (or annoyance, depending on her mood) that makes up part of the background of her job.

She wouldn't act on it. Sure, Josh can be cute and charming (arrogant, but charming), but she isn't really tempted. It's simply a nice thought: even when she has come into the office as early as Josh, even when she has stayed late, even when they have worked their way through the night and still had to come in the next day (while she feels as if death would be a mercy), there's someone who finds her desirable. She may feel flighty and out of control, or efficient and powerful, throwing her weight around, but there's still someone who wants her.

It doesn't need to be the kind of passion where she'd sell her soul for the person. It just reminds her that there's more to her than her job. She loves this job, loves being in the centre of the action, loves knowing that she's damn good at what she does, but she doesn't want it to be her entire life.

***

It comes as a shock when Josh actually asks her out. Asks her for dinner and drinks, as if she was any blonde he'd met in a bar. It offends her slightly that he seemingly forgets that she's a person he knows well, that he suddenly treats her as another woman to bed using a quick flash of dimples and that good old Lyman charm.

But she's curious too. It's like a train wreck: you shouldn't look, but you can't help wanting to know how bad it could possibly be.

She hasn't been on a date in months, and she can't help thinking that she could do with the practice. So she says yes and tries not to feel like she's getting Amy's leftovers.

***

She feels a little strange getting ready that night. It's scary how easily she has slipped into the pattern of seizing early nights when she can, of retreating to her bed with snacks and the television. It takes her a while to work out what to wear, but the hair and makeup come easier to her. She only forgets for a second why she can't wear the caramel pumps that make her calves look incredible (they're impossible to stand in for over twenty minutes), before she reaches for the black ones.

Her roommate passes her in the corridor and asks what the big occasion is. Donna laughs it off as a blind date.

The meal is good: classy restaurant, not too intimate and not too busy. Their conversation falls into the quick banter that comes easily to them. Neither of them drinks too much, and the evening ends at an hour that's only just this side of decent.

Josh drives her home and kisses her goodnight. He doesn't push for more, and she doesn't ask him up.

***

The next time they go out to a movie; it's one more thing to talk about and quibble over.

The time after that they go to a little Italian place that serves great pizza. They talk about anything and everything, as long as it isn't too personal or too political.

It (this thing between them) falls into an easy rhythm. They work together and go out on a Friday, or a Saturday, if work commitments allow. They keep it quiet from everyone, because really, it's none of their business. And the fewer people they tell, the less likely they are to see it in the papers.

They don't sleep together, but the kisses are nice, and it's another reminder that there is life beyond the White House (even if it is all mixed up in the White House anyway). Sometimes, she thinks it's more of a friendship than anything else, and that doesn't seem so bad.

***

Donna waits for Josh to end it. She's not a fool. She knows that they aren't going anywhere. If anything, they're both just treading water, keeping themselves busy until something better comes along.

She's surprised that he doesn't end it.

***

Eventually, she works out what's important to Josh by what he doesn't talk about. He can talk about using dirty politics, but won't mention the vote that he left too late and did too little to change. He'll mention his mom, but won't talk about his father. He'll talk about Mandy and Amy, but ignores the fact that he was shot.

She finds herself following his example, playing by these self-imposed rules. She doesn't tell him that she really liked Cliff, and that as a result, there were a few weeks when she really hated her job. She doesn't tell him how glad she was every time Josh rode in on a white charger to save her (or how disappointed she is that this, whatever it is between them, couldn't have meant more). And she doesn't mention Sam, because Josh doesn't either.

She doesn't say that she never expected to miss Sam this much. She never says that she walks past his office a couple times a day, and sometimes it just doesn't feel right without him in it. She likes Will, she really does, but it's not the same. Josh just acts as if everything is fine, and she wonders if he notices that the others miss Sam, that Toby comes into Josh's office or CJ's far more frequently, looking for a second opinion that isn't there. If Josh hears that moment of silence when they all discuss an idea, that split second where they still expect Sam to interrupt, to act as the conscience for the entire administration, to be heard and dismissed. They all miss him -- they just won't admit it.

And she only admits it to herself. She knows that she misses Sam, but there are enough day-to-day dramas to distract her. So when Sam calls her up out of the blue (on a Sunday) and invites her to lunch, she finds herself grinning and scribbling down a restaurant address.

***

Sam looks great. Big smile, eyes twinkling, and she can't help commenting on the improved tan. She remembers the ever-present tan from the first time she met him. Her first impression was of a model straight out of GQ, from those photos that try to convince men that you can earn over $100,000 a year and still have time to party as if you were a junior in college. Then Sam had started to talk, and tripped over his own feet, and she'd had to revise her opinion of him.

"I've been sailing. That's where the new tan's from."

Even though it's Sunday, there's a part of her that expected him to be in a suit. It's an ingrained habit. Instead, he's wearing jeans and a sweatshirt rolled up to his elbows. It makes her think that he's not that much younger than Josh, but Josh looks far too old. "I didn't know you still did that."

"Sailing?" She nods, and Sam leads them to a table. "Yeah, I just… ran out of time for it, I guess." He pauses to pick up a menu from the table, then looks up at her. "Only twenty-four hours in a day, that kind of thing."

"Yeah."

And this is where it should get awkward, but instead, Sam's asking what she wants to order and is dithering between the chicken and the seafood.

"I'd go with the chicken, Sam. You can't go wrong with chicken."

Sam looks sceptically at her and points out, "You could overcook it, or you could undercook it, and the idea of raw chicken…"

"Is more appetising than the idea of raw fish."

"Except for sushi."

She smiles. "Are you ordering sushi?"

"No," Sam says and looks slightly chagrined. "Chicken it is."

They order, and she asks about Sam's new job. He tells her about it, about the big picture, about what they do, and smiles when he tells her about working in LA, amongst constant sunshine and movie stars. She tries to remember the last time he looked so proud, or so pleased, when talking about his job. She realises it's been years since he talked about the White House like that.

He tells her that he's had a job offer from the EPA, to work in their headquarters in Washington.

"You could be moving back here?" she asks, sipping her lemonade.

"I'm thinking about it. It's not a bad offer, but…"

"You're happy with what you're doing now?"

Sam shrugs. "It'd be interesting, challenging. I thought I'd take a week, come over, gather more information. Get a feel for it, you know? See if I could cope with the colder weather."

Then he asks how her life's going, and she talks about it. Because Sam's been there, he knows what it's like. He knows how CJ can fake it to the press and that senators should be wary when Toby's out for blood. It's only when Sam doesn't know about the thing with Hindmarsh that she realises that he's been there but he's not in the midst of it anymore. It's a strange thing to suddenly realise, even though she's known it all along. From the fond smile, that doesn't bother him as much as she thought it would.

The food arrives, and he asks, "So what about the rest of your life? You know, family, friends? The stuff we don't get paid for?"

The question takes her by surprise. What surprises her is that he had to ask, that she probably wouldn't have mentioned it. Then Sam leans over the table and conspiratorially stage-whispers, "Special friends?" The way he wiggles his eyebrows as he says it makes her burst into laughter.

Holding up three fingers, she says, "The family's well. I saw them last Thanksgiving. We had a big family gathering. I'd forgotten I had so many cousins."

She lowers one finger, has a mouthful of salad and then continues, "Well, the friends that I don't work with… Actually, I haven't seen them in a while. I meant to get together with them weeks ago, but it's been a bit busy." Another finger goes down.

Sam nods, picking at his chicken. "Yeah, it can get a bit hectic. And…?" he prompts.

"And…" She lowers the last finger and spears a tomato with her fork, trying to work out what to say, how to say it.

"Hey, you weren't finished with that one," Sam says, looking pointedly at her hand.

"My mother taught me it was rude to point, Sam Seaborn."

"Oh, okay. Go on." He smiles at her remark, and gestures for her to continue.

"I'm seeing someone." She's hedging around the question and knows it.

Sam watches her, then turns his attention back to his plate. "What's he like?"

"He's nice. I mean, he can be a bit of jerk sometimes, but he's nice to me." She stares at her salad, picking the lettuce apart, peeling the layers of leaves back to find the remaining bits of tomato. "It's just this regular, weekly thing. It's not… It's not really serious." She's not sure what else to say, so she lets the conversation trail off.

Sam shrugs, and doesn't push her. "Not every relationship has to be the love of a lifetime. If it was, each break up would be far too hard."

"Yeah, but…" I knew it wasn't going to be real, she wants to say. I wanted it to be, but it isn't. Sam's brows are lowered, and he's picking at his potatoes with intense concentration. For some reason, that's what reassures her. "I know it's never going to be anything and there's no real reason to keep seeing him. I just don't want to be the one to break it off."

There's a moment where he looks up and doesn't say anything. And it's just Sam. Sam, who has listened to her talk before but never tried to criticize Josh to her, even when Josh deserved it. Who had never lost patience with her and the inane facts that stick in her mind, who frequently had inane facts of his own to offer and discuss.

It's Sam, who isn't judging her, and never really has. "Well, he's not in love with you, right?"

She snorts in disbelief of the very idea. "Nope. He won't admit it, but he isn't." She wonders if she's being unfair to Josh. "He cares about me, just not…"

"Not in the right way?"

She nods but doesn't want to say anything. She's wondering what Sam's thinking.

"Then you're not doing anyone any harm. You're not being dishonest to him. You're enjoying his company. Nothing wrong with that."

"You think?" For some reason, that cheers her up immensely. She smiles as she pushes away her plate and decides that she's finished.

"Yeah." Sam sounds as if he believes it, and that's good enough for her. "Just make sure that you don't get confused. Don't let yourself believe that it's the real thing just because it's easy and convenient. Don't settle for something less, just because you can."

She reaches over for her juice and watches Sam, but he's looking out the window at a couple sitting outside. They're dressed for the warm weather, and the guy leans over to feed her a strawberry. Donna can't remember if she's ever been that obviously in love with someone.

"Don't settle. I did it with Lisa. It's why we never would have worked. I was with someone I didn't really love, in a job I didn't love, and doing it because it was easy. People expected it of me, and I could achieve these things without really trying, without risking myself. It's simple and safe, but you have to take the risk. You have to take the chance that it won't work, that you'll walk away hurt and disheartened, because if you don't, there's no point. The victories are hollow. The defeats don't mean anything, but the successes don't make you happy either."

That's probably the most that he's told her about Lisa. Sam doesn't talk about New York much. He talks about the campaign, he talks about working as a congressional aide in college, he talks about his family and growing up, but he doesn't talk much about Lisa. She realises that it's not because he doesn't want people to know about it, it's just that he wasn't very happy. "You really believe that one true love is out there? That it's not just something made up by romance novels and women's magazines?"

Sam laughs and finishes the last mouthful of his potatoes. "It's there. It's just that most people aren't lucky enough to have it. They don't take the challenge and won't risk the pain, so they never find it. But I know it's there."

That's the thought that stays in her mind, even as she offers to split the bill and he refuses, even as they gather their things and leave the place, even as he offers her a ride and she decides to walk for a bit. As she turns the key in her lock and opens her front door, the idea is still in her mind, bouncing back and forth over conversations she's had with Josh, making her wonder if she believes it.

***

Monday morning is busy (as always), and she doesn't get a chance to speak to Josh until lunchtime. He's busy (his morning has been full of appointments, and there are another three booked after lunch), so she brings him a sandwich and sits down while he eats it.

"I saw Sam on the weekend," she says. Josh nods and takes another bite. "He said he was going to give you a call."

Josh swallows and reaches across his desk for the paper napkin. "Yeah, got the message on my machine. Haven't had time to call him back yet."

"You could call him now."

He frowns as if she's crazy, then waves a pale hand at the stack of files in front of him as he wolfs down the last of his roast beef on rye.

She finished her sandwich and stands up. "Maybe after the meetings?" she suggests hopefully, but Josh is already reading through one of the folders.

***

CJ invites them all over to her place for dinner on Thursday night with a promise of takeaway Chinese food. It sounds great to Donna, who RSVPs immediately. When she mentions it to Josh, he tells her he already knew, but can't come: there's an early meeting Friday, and he needs to prepare.

Donna pushes her hair away from her face and tells him it's a pity, because Sam will be there. So will Bonnie, Margaret, CJ, Toby and Will. She tells Josh they'll have a great time without having to worry about his delicate constitution, and Josh just rolls his eyes.

***

She reminds Josh to call Sam; Josh ignores her or fobs her off with work. Eventually, she wears him down, and he shrugs, leaning one arm on the wall. She repeats that Sam's only in town for a week or so, and hands Josh the number, again.

When she asks him that night, he tells her to stop bugging him. She says she will, as soon as he calls. Then she threatens to dial the phone for him, if that's what it takes. Half an hour later, he hands the Post-It note back to her, saying he left a message for Sam.

Donna grins and teases him that it wasn't so hard after all.

***

Thursday drags. Bonnie and Ginger notice it, too. Margaret says it's because of CJ's dinner that night, and that anticipation gives an hour ninety minutes. Donna blinks at that piece of chirpy advice, but she understands Margaret's point.

Donna spends most of the day getting senators on the phone for Josh, and the rest of it gathering files for him. For once, he's too busy to explain why he's doing whatever he's doing, but she's sure she'll hear all about it tomorrow.

When seven-thirty comes, Donna goes to see CJ, who is stretched out on the couch, stocking-covered feet hanging over the end as she reads notes for tomorrow. She looks up at Donna, her small glasses perched halfway down her nose. On any other woman, it would appear Granny-ish. Somehow, CJ makes it attractive. "Hey," CJ says, pulling off her glasses. "Does Josh need something?"

"Apart from a winning lottery ticket and a harem of women?" she asks, and CJ grins. "He's fine."

CJ nods. "Okay." The question is all in the way she watches Donna, the slightly raised brows.

"I thought we were having dinner at your place."

"Yeah, but that's not 'til--" CJ looks at her watch, and then scrambles off the couch. She starts pulling on her shoes. "Give Sam a call and tell him it's delayed until eight-thirty," she calls out as she grabs her bag. "Carol! I'm leaving."

"Dinner?" Carol sticks her head around the door, and Donna guesses that around here, you get used to the boss suddenly yelling for you.

CJ nods, her keys clattering in her hand. "I forgot."

"Want me to bring the Chinese on my way over?" Carol asks, watching CJ.

"You know what to get?"

Smiling, Carol holds up a scrap of paper. "I've got the list."

"Okay," CJ says, stopping at the doorway. "Let everyone know it's postponed."

"Will do," Carol says, and then CJ's gone.

"I'll tell Sam," Donna offers, falling into step beside Carol.

"Then I'll tell Communications, then Margaret, and then go."

They walk together to the bullpen, and Donna turns towards her desk while Carol heads towards Bonnie. Sitting down, Donna finds the Post-It with Sam's cell number still sitting on her desk. Josh has doodled on the top right-hand corner with dense overlapping scribbles, as if he was trying to get a pen to work. Donna runs a finger over the mark as she dials.

Sam answers after the third ring. She tells him it's been a busy day, and dinner's been postponed an hour. He laughs, says he understands and will stop lurking around CJ's door now. She gives a lady-like snort and teases him for being on time (Sam's general tardiness is infamous), and he admits that he only just got there.

After she hangs up, Donna catches the clock out of the corner of her eye and realises that if the dinner hadn't been postponed, Sam would have been fifteen minutes late. That sounds more like the Sam she knows.

***

The dinner party goes well. Everyone's lively, talking over and around each other, and it only gets louder as they finish the bottles of Californian wine that Sam brought with him. Toby actually smiles.

When the night's over, and Will has spent enough time hanging off Sam's every word, they make their exits. Heading out the door, Bonnie and Margaret both agree that Ginger should have come regardless of her fiancé's birthday. Toby stays back to get Will into a cab, and Donna gratefully accepts Sam's offer of a lift home.

"Will has a case of hero worship," she says after the second traffic light, when she's sure that Sam's sober enough to drive and talk.

Sam's eyes slide away from the road for a second, then he looks ahead like the conscientious driver he is. "It's well-deserved."

Donna blinks at him, at the ease of that comment. "It is?"

"Yeah." Sam nods, looking casually gorgeous in a white linen shirt and dark slacks. "Toby's a great writer."

She laughs, partly because that wasn't what she meant, and partly because Sam's own hero-worship is blindingly clear. "I meant you, not Toby."

"Me?" Sam's head swivels around for a shocked micro-second. Then, it's back to the road.

"Yeah, you."

"Will's the guy who can control the rain," Sam says, and Donna nods. They've all heard that story by now. "I'm the guy who lost the election for him."

There's a shadow in his tone, but it's always been hard to separate Sam's modesty from his self-recrimination. "You did your best. That's all you can do."

"I could have done better," he says quietly, the amber light of the intersection playing on his fingers.

"You did your best." Donna watches the light glow red, and Sam turns to face her.

"Did you know Josh offered to help?"

"He did?"

Sam nods. "Offered to run the campaign. Said he'd have fun showing rural Republicans how politics should be done."

Donna smiles at that. To Josh, any place that doesn't have skyscrapers is automatically 'rural.' He's a city-boy through and through. "When did he say that?"

"When I first told him about my promise. Before I knew I wanted to go through with it. He stopped by my office and said it'd be fun. That there was a certain appeal to playing in the Minor League and wiping the floor with them."

"That sounds like Josh."

"I could have kept him to that promise, you know." The light changes, and Sam drives forward. "I could have told him I couldn't do it without him, and he would have come."

"We were pretty busy in Washington," Donna points out. Sam wasn't there, but she's sure he understands why it wouldn't have been practical for Josh to go down. She doesn't want to say that Josh would choose his job over his friendship; even if it's true (especially if it's true), she doesn't want to say that.

"He would have come," Sam says certainly, and she wonders if Sam realises that Josh isn't that blindly loyal to friends. Josh is a good guy, but there are some things that just aren't in his make-up.

Sam catches her look, and grins. "As much as Josh lives for his job, he loves picking fights with Republicans. Imagine how many rich, uptight snobs he could have offended."

Donna doesn't mean to laugh at Josh, but she can't help giggling. She can perfectly imagine the light of unholy glee in Josh's eyes. "It'd be setting the cat amongst the pigeons."

Sam's laughter is low and warm, and it's very fond. "It wouldn't have been hard to convince him to come."

"But you didn't let him..." She trails off, not quite sure of what she wanted to say, or what she's asking.

Sam shrugs. "I wanted to prove I could do it by myself."

"Oh." She doesn't say that he didn't. Sam is quiet, watching the road ahead. "If you could do it over, would you do it differently?"

Sam blinks. "I'd ask Will to stay."

"Really?"

"He knew the area, knew the groups. He would have run the campaign better."

Sam drives in silence for a while, and Donna sits there, thinking. She wonders if the staffers would have been any easier on Will if he'd come directly from Sam's campaign. Of course, Toby would have given himself an ulcer (or a heart attack) trying to write the speeches on his own, so it was probably for the best that Will came when he did.

But if he hadn't, Sam's job would have been open and waiting for Sam's return.

When Sam pulls up outside her apartment, she says, "Thanks."

"No problem," Sam replies easily. "Tell Josh I said 'hi.'"

Donna tilts her head, watching Sam in the streetlight. "You haven't spoken to him?"

He shrugs one shoulder, like it's not important enough to move two. "Josh is a busy guy."

"He said he left a message for you."

Sam's brows furrow. His lips purse slightly, and after a moment, he says, "Maybe Josh called my old number?"

"I gave him the new one. Handed it to him."

Sam grins. "In your distinctive style of handwriting?"

"I wrote it very plainly," she says, swatting him on the arm. Sam laughs. "First thing tomorrow, I'm asking why he didn't call."

"Donna," Sam says softly, his head bowed so his dark hair falls across his eyes. "Let him be."

"Are you going to start singing a Beatles' medley?"

He smiles, but it doesn't reach his eyes. "If he doesn't want to see me, there's no point hounding him. He's a busy man."

Donna snorts. "You've known Josh long enough to know that isn't how you treat him. Josh only remembers the personal stuff that will annoy the hell out of you. When it comes to the other stuff, you need to keep pushing until he remembers how a friend should act."

"Donna?" Sam asks softly, seriously. Donna swallows and meets his eyes. "If you have to keep pushing, it's not there."

"But--"

Sam gives her a smile that's a little too knowing and reaches over to grasp her hand. "There are things that you can't force. No matter how hard you try."

Donna pulls her hand away a little quicker than she intended and stumbles out of the rented car. She pulls her jacket tight around her but doesn't close the car door. "You're not taking the job here, are you?"

Sam ducks his chin against his chest, and she has to lean down to see his face. "I don't think so."

"But if Josh had called?"

Sam huffs out a breath and shrugs. "There are some things you can't force."

Nodding, Donna steps away, backing up toward the curb. She waits until the red glow of Sam's taillights disappears before she heads inside.

She climbs the stairs quickly and doesn't fumble with her keys. When she steps inside, her roommate's sitting on the couch with her cat stretched across her lap. Her forehead wrinkles as she looks at Donna, sees the expression on Donna's face, and asks what's wrong.

Donna settles onto the couch and says she probably won't be going out on Friday night.



(Post a new comment)


[info]skywaterblue
2005-11-15 03:51 am UTC (link)
"Donna?" Sam asks softly, seriously. Donna swallows and meets his eyes. "If you have to keep pushing, it's not there."

...oof.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 04:00 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that's the moment that says it all.

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[info]andrealyn
2005-11-15 03:52 am UTC (link)
Oh, lovely. I loved the Donna and Sam meal and all the Josh-ness to it and I love the 'can't force' and the dinner and everything so much and just...LOVE!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]out_there
2005-11-15 03:59 am UTC (link)
*twirls* Thank you, because I love Sam, and I love Donna, and I even Josh, but having them together doesn't always work.

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[info]scribewraith
2005-11-15 04:11 am UTC (link)
Wow and cool and i really liked this a lot. I wasn't going to read because, you know sam/josh, but i love Donna in this and I love Sam and poor Josh...

;)

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 05:08 am UTC (link)
but i love Donna in this and I love Sam and poor Josh...

I wouldn't necessarily say *poor Josh* but, hmmm. Yeah. He doesn't realise the way he pushes and distances other people, so it's not like he's strictly doing it on purpose.

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[info]scribewraith
2005-11-15 05:24 am UTC (link)
no that's true but it also means that he doesn't get what he wants because he can't talk about what he really wants

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 03:26 pm UTC (link)
Absolutely true. Which is why we still all love Josh, even when he's a jackass, because it's done out of obliviousness, out of obstinacy and ignorance, not out of malice or an actual lack of caring.

But on the other hand, you can't prove him wrong. You can't take a guy that set and determined, and change him to what you need. So Donna and Sam get stuck trying, and pushing, and waiting for a sign that Josh gets it, and when Josh doesn't, they eventually have to cut their losses.

And this is why I backed away from WW. All my Josh/Sam stories started turning into unhappy endings.

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[info]scribewraith
2005-11-15 11:51 pm UTC (link)
*grin* yep, I can see that happening ;)

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[info]surreul
2005-11-15 04:20 am UTC (link)
oh that's gorgeous.

i thought you got donna and josh's relationship perfectly, they love each other but... the 'can't force' line was killer. but, but, josh not calling is a thing, it wasn't like he forgot, it's a thing because he's an idiot and in love with sam and they just need to stop being idiots and ... *sniffles* you need to write a happy story. *sniff*

so thrilled to see west wing! I got to see it for the first time a couple weeks ago (the first seasons) and whee!!

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 05:13 am UTC (link)
oh that's gorgeous.

Thank you!

i thought you got donna and josh's relationship perfectly, they love each other but... the 'can't force' line was killer. but, but, josh not calling is a thing, it wasn't like he forgot, it's a thing because he's an idiot and in love with sam and they just need to stop being idiots and ... *sniffles* you need to write a happy story. *sniff*

See, this is why I backed away from WW. I got to this stage where even my supposed happy endings (and this was supposed to end with "John/Sam get their act together and happy endings for all") aren't happy. They all end in this pain and angst and heartbreak.

so thrilled to see west wing! I got to see it for the first time a couple weeks ago (the first seasons) and whee!!

Oh, dude. The first two seasons are the best. Seriously, they rock. (I have them on tape. That way, I can ignore the later seasons if I want to.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sparkledark
2005-11-15 05:26 am UTC (link)
oh, poor sam :( this was fantastic. i love the way you just sort of hint around the edges of what's going on with sam and josh, but it's still really clear and poignant. and the josh/donna stuff was perfect- exactly how i imagine it would be if they were real people who tried to date.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 06:48 am UTC (link)
Oh, that is such a cute icon. *loves*

i love the way you just sort of hint around the edges of what's going on with sam and josh, but it's still really clear and poignant.

Thank you. For once, I wanted to be subtle about it, so I'm glad it worked.

and the josh/donna stuff was perfect- exactly how i imagine it would be if they were real people who tried to date.

Me too. They're too close -- Donna knows Josh too well -- for Josh to actually let down his barriers and really commit to the relationship. I don't think he'd be comfortable, and Donna would know it. (In other words, they're *doomed*.)

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[info]like_the_drink
2005-11-15 02:31 pm UTC (link)
OMG I can't believe you finished this story. I am so excited!!

You break my heart though. It's perfect and I wouldn't change anything in it, but I always keep hoping for a happy ending for Josh and Sam.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-15 02:59 pm UTC (link)
OMG I can't believe you finished this story.

And I finally got it beta'd and posted, which took me almost as long as the story-writing itself. *snerk*

You break my heart though. It's perfect and I wouldn't change anything in it, but I always keep hoping for a happy ending for Josh and Sam.

*nodnodnod* See, this is why I don't write those two much these days. I've gotten to this stage where everytime I start a story, even if it's supposed to have a happy ending -- like this one was originally supposed to -- it comes out as heartbreak.

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[info]like_the_drink
2005-11-15 09:46 pm UTC (link)
Well that's Sorkin's fault. He messed up my boys....

And then Wells went ahead and messed up everybody else so that they are hardly recognizable anymore.

No matter how much I love Dan/Casey and John/Rodney, Sam/Josh will always be my favorite pair.

Once again, thanks so much for writting this.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-16 02:57 am UTC (link)
No matter how much I love Dan/Casey and John/Rodney, Sam/Josh will always be my favorite pair.

Whereas I'm Dan/Casey. Because I love Sam/Josh -- and they are an old love, one that goes back years -- but I've lost my belief in them having a happy ending. But Dan/Casey due to show cancellations and everything else, remain in that perfect moment of stasis where I can still see so many different happy endings for them.

And John/Rodney are fun. Snarky and fun. But so are Rodney/Radek. And Rodney/Ronon has a certain appeal. And, yeah, I'm even tempted by early Rodney/Carson. (*snerk* Are we starting to see a pattern? Rodney's the little black dress of SGA: he goes well with anyone and any occasion.)

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[info]like_the_drink
2005-11-16 01:17 pm UTC (link)
LOL

Are you calling Rodney a slut? :)

Well Josh/Sam introduced me to slash so they'll always be special for being my first. Then again it is easy to love Sorkin's boys.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-16 01:25 pm UTC (link)
Are you calling Rodney a slut? :)

Well, I wouldn't say "slut". He's just... very efficient at making the best of his opportunities. *g*

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[info]meadowlion
2005-11-15 04:54 pm UTC (link)
I just realized that I'd forgotten to mention what others have brought up below, how beautifully you hinted at what Josh and Sam might have had. That was excellent, you handled the earlier roommate entrance and the introduction of the new job idea very well, and the whole piece is lovely.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-16 02:42 am UTC (link)
Thanks.

nd the introduction of the new job idea very well

That one was actually quite funny. That was the whole reason Sam was in Washington: I'd even done research on the EPA and their headquarters and spent time making sure that Sam would logically be offered the job there.

And then, I completely forgot to write it into the fic. If you hadn't mentioned it, I never would have noticed -- because *I* knew why Sam was there, so I didn't notice that I hadn't actually written anything about it. (In other words, this is why the betaing process is so helpful. *snerk*)

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[info]2naonh3_cl2
2005-11-16 02:27 pm UTC (link)
ouch. this was a beautiful fic. thank you for sharing.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-17 03:48 am UTC (link)
Thanks. *beams*

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[info]theodicy
2005-11-26 01:18 pm UTC (link)
Damn fine story. I could hear voices in my head, which happens all too rarely. Go you.

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[info]out_there
2005-11-26 07:46 pm UTC (link)
I could hear voices in my head, which happens all too rarely.

*beams* That's always the thing that signifies a good story to me, so I'm hugely flattered. Thank you.

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[info]murklins
2005-11-29 05:21 pm UTC (link)
When I bookmarked this two weeks ago, I wrote a little reminder as to why I should read it, to distinguish it from the other 97 fics on my reading list: "Josh/Donna by out_there. Been a while since I read any West Wing."

And now you've reminded me why it's "been a while". The Sam/Josh dynamic is like a chronic ache. Their sparkling energy as collegues and friends disintigrates into this non-working, closed-off, painful *thing* when they take it any further.

And here we have Donna, feeling her way around, trying to push things into place, but not really getting anywhere. And that's so right, but still so hard to read.

Though my eyes kept wanting to slide off the screen in self-defense, I did manage to pay *some* attention, and I loved the exchange between Sam and Donna about hero-worship. That really captured Sam for me.

Really, the whole thing was wonderful, but West Wing fic is all hurty. I feel like I need to go... lick my wounds or something.

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[info]out_there
2005-12-01 12:28 pm UTC (link)
The Sam/Josh dynamic is like a chronic ache. Their sparkling energy as collegues and friends disintigrates into this non-working, closed-off, painful *thing* when they take it any further.

*nods like a bobblehead doll*

You're right. You're completely right. It's the same reason I don't write the boys much anymore, because their potential happy endings evaporated after S2, and I don't want to write them hurting and starting to break.

But thank you for struggling through it, despite the pain. (And for the licking of wounds thing, I'd suggest tracking down a fandom with a happier ending and reading some uplifting fic. I know that helps me.)

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[info]black_eyedgirl
2005-11-30 05:06 am UTC (link)
Ack. Was playing around looking for new fic to read and found this. It's amazingly, wonderfully written but it breaks my heart.

I'm a Sam-girl so this:
"she wonders if he notices that the others miss Sam, that Toby comes into Josh's office or CJ's far more frequently, looking for a second opinion that isn't there. If Josh hears that moment of silence when they all discuss an idea, that split second where they still expect Sam to interrupt, to act as the conscience for the entire administration, to be heard and dismissed. They all miss him -- they just won't admit it."
made me sad... It's perfect, and how the West Wing is in my head with Sam missing, but so sad.

The dynamics here are perfect. I'd love to see a happy Sam/Josh (or Josh/Donna with Sam/Toby, for I am quirky) but the path you've written for them is so perfectly believable that while reading it their happy ending seems impossible to imagine. Because Josh will always be himself - oblivious and stubborn and *Josh*. And Donna and Sam who did/do live their lives at his whims are just stuck with it. Or learn to move on, for it cannot be forced. *acks some more* But beautifully written.

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[info]out_there
2005-12-01 12:30 pm UTC (link)
It's perfect, and how the West Wing is in my head with Sam missing, but so sad.

Mine, too. I'm a total Sam-girl, so I keep waiting for them to miss him more. And they *don't* in canon.

Because Josh will always be himself - oblivious and stubborn and *Josh*. And Donna and Sam who did/do live their lives at his whims are just stuck with it. Or learn to move on, for it cannot be forced.

*nods* That's exactly the dynamic. They can't change Josh, and Josh -- being Josh -- can't see a reason to change. It's doomed.

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[info]scrollgirl
2005-12-01 04:39 am UTC (link)
Wow, this is just a gorgeous, subtle piece of writing. Love it! Sure, it's angsty and bittersweet and makes me want to cuddle all three of them, but that's part of its charm!

She climbs the stairs quickly and doesn't fumble with her keys. When she steps inside, her roommate's sitting on the couch with her cat stretched across her lap. Her forehead wrinkles as she looks at Donna, sees the expression on Donna's face, and asks what's wrong.

Donna settles onto the couch and says she probably won't be going out on Friday night.


This is a Donna I can wholly get behind. Very powerful stuff.

Seriously, I can understand not wanting to write stuff that won't give you the "happily ever after" you were trying for, but you pack a powerful punch with your "we're okay and that's okay" endings and I'm glad you haven't given up on Josh and Sam altogether. I've been going through your WW fic and it's all fantastic -- though I think my favourites are this fic, and "Initial Conditions".

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[info]out_there
2005-12-01 12:22 pm UTC (link)
Sure, it's angsty and bittersweet and makes me want to cuddle all three of them, but that's part of its charm!

*laughs* Precisely.

This is a Donna I can wholly get behind.

At times, Donna has a lot of oomph to her, and I really like that about her. She can take a lot and still keep going, you know? It's impressive.

I've been going through your WW fic and it's all fantastic -- though I think my favourites are this fic, and "Initial Conditions".

I have such a soft spot for that story. Back then, I had so much trouble with smut scenes, and I can remember how problematic the sex scene was for me. But also, it was a *huge* (and comparitively long) undertaking for me at the time, and it gives me the happy ending that I'd like to believe happened in canon.

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[info]pocky_slash
2009-01-31 08:20 pm UTC (link)
Wow, time for a three and a half year old comment!

I have no idea why I didn't comment on this the first time around. It's saved in my memories and in my Delicious bookmarks and I remember reading it, but for some reason I never commented. I found it today while looking for another fic that I KNOW exists somewhere, and decided I had to rectify that.

Um, that being said, obviously I love this a lot. It's very... it's a story about Donna, but the whole thing is very Sam. Over the years, fandom has sort of turned me into a Will girl, but my love for Sam is strong as ever and I just ache for him in this. Donna, too, because both of them live their lives and hang their hopes on this person who will never be what they need to be, and that just breaks my heart. It really leaves me wanting for Sam to find the love of his life and for Josh to realize all the chances he's passed up with both these people.

(Also, it may just be me being tinhatty beyond belief, but I totally felt some Sam/Will undertones here :D)

But. Yes. Three and a half years later I am taking some time to say that I've always liked this story a lot.

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[info]out_there
2009-02-01 09:47 pm UTC (link)
Well, you must have liked it a lot to bother coming back to leave feedback!

It's very... it's a story about Donna, but the whole thing is very Sam. Over the years, fandom has sort of turned me into a Will girl, but my love for Sam is strong as ever and I just ache for him in this. Donna, too, because both of them live their lives and hang their hopes on this person who will never be what they need to be, and that just breaks my heart.

It's kind of heartbreaking, but at the same time, there's something quite reassuring about the fact that both of these people -- Sam especially -- are strong enough to see that their ideals of Josh don't match who Josh actually *is*, and deal with that. I've always been a big Sam-girl, but what I liked most about him was his idealism combined with his practicality. He's a man who can simultaneously believe in how things hould be while also working within how things actually are. I think that's pretty awesome.

(Also, it may just be me being tinhatty beyond belief, but I totally felt some Sam/Will undertones here :D)

Well, maybe not tinhatty and not precisely intended, but there is a mutual respect and affection here between Sam and Will so i see how you could choose to see it as the start of Sam/Will.

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