In Love With a Monkey Made of Rags ([info]maidenmorticia) wrote in [info]innocence_jihad,
@ 2007-08-18 00:34:00
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Hate Speech...
Go to LJ abuse... and report this anti-Asian hate speech...

http://pepsi2dmax.livejournal.com/1381.html

And this anti-"Black" speech:

http://pepsibettymaxxx.livejournal.com/603.html

I reported it, but I figure that since it's one of the paid advertisement sites, we need as many reports as possible to get this offline.

Thanks.

xo M.

Edit To the people accusing me of being a troll & overreacting. Too bad you don't know a troll when you see one, because I am not a troll. If I were a troll, I would have created a journal yesterday and would be responding to each and everyone of you with some kind of weirdz intarwebz speak. Too bad, too that you apparently haven't a clue about the very real campagins against Pepsi for their appalling human rights record. Even worse, that you don't know about the effects caffeine and aspartame has on your body. And yes, as an Asian, I think those posts were completely insulting to Asians. It's possible to be satirical without being a racist. It's also possible to be racist without being a member of the KKK or the white supremacists. So check your own bullshit at the door before you tear my opinion appart. Thanks for nothing.

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[info]kyliemuffin
2007-08-18 04:43 am UTC (link)
Uh, I think those are fakes.

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 04:44 am UTC (link)
Then report them as trolls...

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[info]kyliemuffin
2007-08-18 04:46 am UTC (link)
To be honest, I don't report trolls; the first time I did that, LJ Abuse basically told me to stfu and gtfo. These were people trolling to pretend to be paedophiles.

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[info]dbcooper
2007-08-18 05:06 am UTC (link)
Unfortunately, the Terms of Service do not implicitly prohibit racism, though both posts qualify, and I will certainly censure them in my own LJ. The ToS specifies that for racial speech to be specifically prohibited, it must be seen as "inciting violence against an individual, race, ethnicity, or orientation." We might get 'em on "harassment," which is also specifically prohibited, but I don't think we're gonna get these sockpuppets on the "...including but not limited to..." clause, since that only applies to users who aren't big-money sponsors' sockpuppets.

Personally, I'm contacting the Coca-Cola company to ask for written permission to use their logo in my posts until Pepsi withdraws its sponsorship.

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-18 05:11 am UTC (link)
I'm pretty sure they are jokes since the kid in the comments is all "I hate asians even though I am one" plus they were made today. I would guess they were made specifically to make the sponsored thing look dumb. :)

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[info]cacahuate
2007-08-18 05:13 am UTC (link)
I really hope so.

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-18 05:16 am UTC (link)
It seems entirely silly and satirical to me. I've seen hate speech. And the photo shopped Buddha holding pepsi on it? Kind of really silly.

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[info]cacahuate
2007-08-18 05:19 am UTC (link)
Oh yeah, totally, but I've seen worse advertising. And I'm seriously running low on benefit-of-the-doubt when it comes to LJ.

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[info]kyliemuffin
2007-08-18 05:20 am UTC (link)
What I said. Mmmhm. Still pretty weak trolling, though, because anyone could see through it.

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-18 05:20 am UTC (link)
I thought that was why it was satire rather than trolling. :)

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[info]iconox
2007-08-18 06:05 am UTC (link)
Apparently there's plenty of people who can't, including the OP.

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[info]for_the_nonce
2007-08-18 06:42 am UTC (link)
Nah, I think the OP is a troll. This is the same person who said drinking Pepsi violated the TOS because caffeine = TEH EVIL!

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 01:37 pm UTC (link)
Hey, watch the troll-accusing! I actually know of non-insane people in RL who believe that whenever Coke or Pepsi go into a country it statistically reduces nutrition and in a few years to a decade, the average tooth loss increases...

Believing that Pepsi harms children might not actually be all that insane.

Either way, let's concentrate on the issues at hand and only ignore trolls rather than run them out of town with torches.

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[info]wyna_hiros
2007-08-18 12:53 pm UTC (link)
Just dropping in, but the user who said that is an IRL friend of mine, and he was making fun of [info]pepsi2dmax entry with his comment - he wasn't being serious.

I can't say the same for that Pepsi set of journals though: serious ly bad attempt at viral marketing or a troll? Hard to tell.

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[info]spicylemon
2007-08-18 05:57 am UTC (link)
Man, I was already laughing for 10 mins straight looking at the userinfos for [info]news and [info]lj_biz and then I see THIS!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL oh god, my day is made.

But yeah, obvious trolls. They could fail a little harder, seriously.

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[info]iconox
2007-08-18 06:04 am UTC (link)
Hold up...wasn't this an ANTI-CENSORSHIP group?

Someone's a butthurt bitch =)

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[info]karma_kalisutah
2007-08-18 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Hold up...wasn't this an ANTI-CENSORSHIP group?

Thank you. That's what I think whenever I see the increasingly-prevalent "LJ censored fandom, so let's censor all the people we don't like!" attitude. Feel free to point out 6A's hypocrisy, but the goal of that is to get them to stop censoring you, not to start censoring others.

If this continues much longer, I'm just gonna leave this community and let the whole thing go. I'm not really interested in porn, just sanity and anti-censorship.

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 04:18 pm UTC (link)
Please don't leave. I'm not even into fandom or fanfic and I'm here because I *am* completely anti-censorship. I'm with you and don't want to end up lonely.

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 04:17 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I think it's basically an anti-censorship issue as well.

As I've stated before, I'm all for picking out ONE very blatant example of hypocricy by making an abuse report and receiving back the opposite answer of a similarly-against-rules issue.

But my fear is they'll end up thinking that we ACTUALLY want more censorship and if we can't have any fun that we'll ruin everyone's fun.

(that said, please refrain from name-calling and assume we're all buthurted)

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 04:17 pm UTC (link)
*damn spelling*

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[info]aphrodeia
2007-08-18 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

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[info]emarkienna
2007-08-18 04:29 pm UTC (link)
Agreed. With various posts recently, it seems that this has flipped from an anti-censorship group, to a group where people campaign to shut down anything non-fanfiction that they don't like. (Pointing out inconsistencies is fine, but actively campaigning or reporting to LJ abuse goes beyond that.) This is just the sort of thing that guys like WFI want.

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[info]stardust_rain
2007-08-18 05:12 pm UTC (link)
With various posts recently, it seems that this has flipped from an anti-censorship group, to a group where people campaign to shut down anything non-fanfiction that they don't like.

That is scarily and undeniably true. And I agree, but with one quirk: there is a difference between reporting communities that tell its members explicitly how to harm themselves and a person voicing their opinions about a group of people; however offensive that opinion is. LJ's inaction in the first case is their hypocrisy, but wanting to delete the second case is ours.

Racism is disgusting (I'm Chinese myself and even though it was a prank I found it hard not to take offense when I first glanced at it) but someone saying they hate a group of people is not the same as them threatening the said group (unless they state that; then it's another matter). There is a difference between saying a doing, whatever ship you stand on, be it homophobia or pedophilia. LJ and 6A obviously doesn't get that and we need to be above them.

In last round of strikethrough, a lot of members were saying "we're for fandom free speech but pedophilia free speech" which was, well, embarrassing to read. Until some awesome person told them that there is no discrimination in free speech.

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[info]huojin
2007-08-18 10:50 am UTC (link)
I just pissed myself laughing.

And mostly at the comments people made to those journals.

Seriously, that's not hate speech... just crap satire. Which I found hysterical. Says it all about me, eh?

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[info]maryam
2007-08-18 12:38 pm UTC (link)
hahaha

thanks for the links.

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[info]raikoala
2007-08-18 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Uh... unless you deleted the comments in question, I don't think anyone accused you of trolling. Everyone was saying those journals you linked to were trolls.

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 03:35 pm UTC (link)
Possibly you missed this thread:

http://community.livejournal.com/innocence_jihad/208251.html?thread=3585915#t3585915

Where I was being directly accused of being a troll.

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[info]raikoala
2007-08-18 03:52 pm UTC (link)
Oh, yeah, I did.

What's that caffeine thing they're referring to?

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 04:10 pm UTC (link)
http://community.livejournal.com/innocence_jihad/205588.html

From a few days ago.

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[info]raikoala
2007-08-18 04:25 pm UTC (link)
If you're going to claim that the caffeine thing wasn't a joke/mockery thing, I'd actually understand why people would consider it possible you're a troll.

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 05:04 pm UTC (link)
OK, let me reiteerate that a troll does not tend to use a journal they created 5 years ago, post to everyday, and run 3 very active large communities from. If you don't *agree* with the fact that caffeine can harm you and that therefore it shouldn't be marketed like this, that's one thing, but you don't go accusing people who disagree with you of being a troll. Doing so only goes to show how weak your arguement is. If you disagree with the affects of caffeine, then show some links/research which shows that the levels in a Pepsi Max are not harmful, but to start slinging mud at me that I'm a troll simply because you don't have any evidence to show that Pepsi Max does not have harmful levels of caffeine in it, is pretty pathetic.

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[info]raikoala
2007-08-18 05:14 pm UTC (link)
I don't disagree that caffeine can harm you, that wasn't my point, so your comment is completely irrelevant to mine.
As a person, you probably never interested these people, so why would they bother to check out your profile? What they cared about were your posts and they decided they're worthy of being considered done by a troll. And as I said, I understand why they would.

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[info]karma_kalisutah
2007-08-18 03:34 pm UTC (link)
Racism ≠ hate speech. They're both ugly, but the former isn't against TOS.

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 04:24 pm UTC (link)
No... Racism does not always equal hate speech, but in the context of those two posts it does as they both encompass degrades groups of people based on race and it therefore is against the TOS on those grounds. While this kind of speech might be legal in the US, it certainly isn't legal in many jurisdictions where many LJers come from. Including where I come from. Therefore, regardless of whether those people are trolls, paid pepsi advertisers, or just idiots, what they are doing is against the law. Oh, I know, not high and mighty US of A law, the only law which counts in the world according to LJ, but they do say that they must also respect local laws in the TOS and this kind of speech is seriously against the local laws in my country and in many others listed in that wikipedia post.

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[info]ember_reignited
2007-08-18 10:57 pm UTC (link)
Local laws as in local to California rather than the whole wide US. 6A has no obligation to comply with the laws of every conceivable foreign country. If they did, certain political and religious criticisms would be against the rules, etc. etc. Which would be my cue to pack up and head on over to GJ.

And also? Anti-censorship community.</i> Pointing out hypocrisy is one thing, but using it to push your own agenda and ban the people you dislike, however legitimately, is quite another.

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[info]ember_reignited
2007-08-18 10:58 pm UTC (link)
Agh, broken tag. Also: this is still Karma. Wrong journal.

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[info]shadowstark
2007-08-18 03:56 pm UTC (link)
Why is everyone calling them Pepsi marketers? They're clearly just being asses and trying to get people more annoyed at the crazy LJ marketing to paid accounts. Hell, I'm sure they're trying to get people angry at Pepsi, too.

One of them wrote, "Pepsi doesn't give a shit what kind of blog they're integrated into [...] If people can post [...] Russian Nazi propaganda [...]"

That's someone doing a bit of protesting. You should be reporting this to Pepsi as a reason why it's not good to do this kind of crazy corporate branding, if you're going to be reporting it.

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[info]emarkienna
2007-08-18 04:34 pm UTC (link)
Why is everyone calling them Pepsi marketers? They're clearly just being asses and trying to get people more annoyed at the crazy LJ marketing to paid accounts. Hell, I'm sure they're trying to get people angry at Pepsi, too.

I agree, my thoughts exactly. I first saw this account via a link to http://community.livejournal.com/bad_service/1352503.html , and it's funny how everyone seems to think it's a genuine astroturfer!

(Although the bad publicity they seem to be giving Pepsi shows up a good problem with the sponsored themes - it makes it a lot easier for people to pretend to be associated with Pepsi. Normally you wouldn't be allowed to use company logos without permission, and LJ probably wouldn't allow them either, but with the sponsored themes it's fine...)

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[info]for_the_nonce
2007-08-18 08:29 pm UTC (link)
Since the thread I was in is frozen: I don't think I was overreacting. You've made two posts in this community that, IMO, are a bit overzealous. Your edit is reactionary as well. This community was supposed to be, as others have stated, anti-censorship, but you're posting repeatedly about things you don't like and think should be censored. So don't throw some reactionary edit in my face. I have an opinion to which I am entitled to; that opinion just happens to be that you're missing the real issue at hand and that this community is going rapidly downhill. You need to check your own bullshit just as much as I need to check mine.

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[info]maidenmorticia
2007-08-18 08:51 pm UTC (link)
First off, I didn't freeze it. I imagine it was one of the maintainers.

Secondly, who gave you the right to censor this community? For someone who purports to be anti-censorship, your accusations that I'm a troll simply because you don't like my opinions is rather hypocritical. If I were linking to and complaining about the anti-fandom/fic/art stuff going on in LJ land rather than Pepsi Co's racism, would you be on the same bandwagon? Probably not since I have yet to see a member of this community complain about those who come here solely to whine about the anti-fandom/fic/art attacks.

I am not censoring anyone who comments on my posts. I'm letting you all comment freely & with as much anti-morticia venom as you please. I have a right to defend myself & I have. How have I censored you or your opinion? Not at all. I've allowed you to give it freely and regularly. And please feel free to give it some more. Though how you can say you support racist speech and advertising shills because to say anything else is to be pro-censorship is a bit of a stretch IMNSHO.

My bullshit is fully checked. The real question is yours?

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[info]for_the_nonce
2007-08-18 09:19 pm UTC (link)
I accused you of being a troll because your posts seemed rather ridiculous and unrelated to the actual issues at hand in the community. You seemed to be searching hard for something to get people riled up- sounded like trolling to me. It had nothing to do with whether or not I agree with you.

I didn't accuse you of censoring me personally- I accused you of trying to censor others (communities, v-gifts, etc) on livejournal. I simply stated that the comments were frozen. I was not accusing you of doing so.

Censorship is censorship, plain and simple. People are entitled to express racist opinions. I don't agree with them at all, but I'm not going to call for their deletion. Sorry if you don't like that, but plenty of people in this comm seem to agree with me.

I wasn't trying to start a fight with you, though I can see why you're upset. However, I really think you're overreacting. Venom is a bit much, don't you think? Not to mention making that edit directed at 'all the people accusing you' instead of commenting back to me personally, when we're obviously the only two people involved in this. But whatever. I'm not going to say anything else, because the last thing we need is in-fighting. Consider this my apology for mistakenly accusing you of trolling or continue to be angry. It's your choice. *shrug*

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 11:09 pm UTC (link)
I froze it. Stop this now.

She is not a troll, she is a member of this community. Infighting is part of what's going to take this community downhill.

She is valued here, and you are valued here.

No more accusation threads, ok?

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-18 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and I'm VERY overly sensitive on this whole troll accusation subject because someone I liked very much and was a valuable member of this community left and deleted because another (also valuable, also participatory) member of this community made threads of troll accusations.

Emotions are high and we all don't always agree on philosophy or what action to take. But the in-fighting and name calling will severely weaken everyone.

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[info]for_the_nonce
2007-08-18 11:44 pm UTC (link)
Fair enough. Everything surrounding LJ these days is a hot button issue. I'm sorry for accusing someone unfairly and for exacerbating the situation, but I felt a need to defend myself when told to 'check my bullshit.' Won't happen again.

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[info]raikoala
2007-08-19 12:08 am UTC (link)
I still think the post where you were explaining yourself didn't need to be frozen as you weren't accusing anyone (neither was I, by the way, but I certainly saw where you're coming from - independently of your comment). Also, you had some really good points.

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-19 12:34 am UTC (link)
I (this time) just locked down the conversations between the two of them which were arguments of a personal nature.

In a previous thread, I only froze replies for comments which specifically accused "troll" hoping that would cool the argument. Another mod may have frozen replies to the whole thread, but I didn't.

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[info]for_the_nonce
2007-08-19 01:04 am UTC (link)
Thanks. I'm glad someone understood what I was trying to say. I didn't necessarily see the need for either of our threads to be frozen either. Then again, internet drama escalates quickly, so maybe it was for the best.

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[info]pheret1
2007-08-19 12:35 am UTC (link)
Thank you for understanding!

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[info]kyliemuffin
2007-08-19 06:53 am UTC (link)
People seriously thought you were a troll?

I agree you're now acting immaturely, but I fail to see how your behaviour could be considered trolling.

Although your idea of a troll is slightly wrong. One can type normally and be a troll.

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