heronite ([info]heronite) wrote in [info]hyugacest,
@ 2007-09-13 12:13:00
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Kaleidoscope - an explanation of the NejiHina fandom
Finally, this is done! The annex ended taking up more time than the essay...

I originally planned to write a whole new manifesto in order to explain the NejiHina fandom and why I like NejiHina, but I've since become a lot less active in the Naruto fandom, so I'm afraid you'll have to settle for this briefer essay.

I. Why I personally don't view NejiHina as incest
II. The appeal of NejiHina: a multi-faceted pairing
III. A different concept of family, one not limited to the couple

Annex 1 - Additional essays
Annex 2 - Communities
Annex 3 - Fanarts
Annex 4 - Fanfiction
Annex 5 - A personal guide to writing NejiHina



Foreword: To those of you who aren't NejiHina fans, the purpose of this essay is not to convert. I am merely explaining what NejiHina fans may see in this pairing, and why I personally support it. I wrote this because of the people who wonder what the hell is going through our heads... so I'm merely explaining.

The rest is up to you to judge or to not judge. If you're not even curious about our stance, just press the back button.

Though please, whether you read it or not, just leave us fans alone. This is fandom. This is not serious business.

I. Why I don't view NejiHina as incest
II. The appeal of NejiHina: a multi-faceted pairing
III. A different concept of love, one not limited to the couple

Annex 1 - Additional essays
Annex 2 - Communities
Annex 3 - Fanarts
Annex 4 - Fanfiction
Annex 5 - A personal guide to writing NejiHina

I. Why I personally don't view NejiHina as incest

I will start by explaining why I personally don't view NejiHina as incest, since it's the thing that comes up most often.

I.1. Cousin marriages, including first cousin marriages, aren't considered incest in every part of the world
I.2. Cousin marriages do not pose a strong genetic risk
I.3. Why I personally don't see NejiHina as a sibling relationship
I.4. Besides... it's a manga, who cares?

I've actually never even Thought of NejiHina as incest until, much to my surprise and bafflement back then, I saw people accusing it of such. I'm pretty sure that none of you will be satisfied with "I don't feel it as incest," so here is a more developed reasoning on why I don't view NejiHina as incest, nor view it as a problem.

1. Cousin marriages, including first cousin marriages, aren't considered incest in every part of the world

Close cousin marriages have actually been historically quite common: transportation was not exactly common in the old days, so people went the easy way: they inter-married. In some places such as the middle east, cousin marriages are actually still preferred. Some regions in the world actually have close to 50% first cousin marriage rates, imagine that!

European royals intermarried to keep their "bloodline pure" (and contrary to what people think, "hemophilia" is not a cousin marriage problem: hemophilia is carried by the X-chromosome. Long story short, a mother with the problem has a 50% chance of passing on the trait no matter whom she marries). Even the Bible does not list cousin marriages as among forbidden relationships.

I'd also like to refer people to Sintari's lovely piece on enculturation. Marriage has simply historically been a social or economic means above all: in places where marrying out (thus bringing in outside fortune and relations) was viewed as advantageous, people married out. In places where on the contrary they preferred to keep fortunes in the family, people married in. The concept of marrying freely for romance was actually not widespread.

Legally speaking, no European country actually has laws outright banning cousin marriages, either (even if they are not necessarily in favor of it). Half the states in the US actually allow cousin marriages as well (including first cousins). In Japan, it seems that first cousin marriages are now illegal, but it seems like a recent trend due to misguided genetics: 4 in 1000 marriages in Japan are between close cousins, and the Royal Family has historically married cousins as well.

2. Cousin marriages do not pose a strong genetic risk

This is the most common misconception about cousin marriages. YES, Repeated interbreeding increases the probability of recessive genetic traits showing up, but a one-time first cousin marriage actually only has a 6-7% chance of genetic problems compared to 3-4% for unrelated couples. The increase in risk is just about as high as if a woman were to have children after age 40 instead of before age 30.

In a past essay of mine, I've also pointed out that if you were to take genetics seriously, then the Hyuugas as a whole probably has a very high rate of inbreeding. Some could then argue that it further increases the risk for NejiHina, but in this case it actually does the contrary: if there were indeed many recessive disorders among the Hyugas, they would have shown up in mass long ago.

Yet they didn't: the Hyugas are considered among the strongest in Konoha. Neither Neji, Hinata nor their parents seem to have any disorders either. This means a NejiHina child would likely have as much a risk of genetic defects as any other visible Hyuga did (ie, not much). Inbreeding is actually a good way to weed Out genetic disorders if the ones carrying them die out at a young age: this doesn't happen in our modern society, but in the shinobi world, natural selection would probably have done the job, so the Hyugas are probably quite genetically clean.

Or you could argue that bad genes are floating around, but the Hyugas selectively "weed them out" (via Byakugan pre-diagnosis?). Well then, it'd apply to Neji and Hinata's kids, too. If you feel squeamish about that, remember that we're talking about a manga involving kid soldiers sent to kill each other.

In the meantime, those who are truly most at risk are those with a family history of dominant genetic problems: people with dominant genetic defects have a 50% risk of passing the trait on. Two unrelated people with the same recessive trait have a 25% of carrying on the defect. Smoking, drinking and taking drugs also pose risks to newborns. Do I hear people arguing that Kurenai's kid will probably have retarded growth, have attention-deficit disorder and have increased cancer risks because of Kurenai's likely exposure to massive second-hand smoke by hanging around Asuma, or that Chouji and Kiba's kids wlil have other problems because of questionable drug intake?

Long story short, scientists have rejected the genetic argument against cousin marriages long ago.

I also hear people going "ew, but cousins share 25% of their genes!" Actually, any two human beings share 99.9% of their genetic make-up. Siblings share 99.95%, so I guess Neji and Hinata share 99.925%? Pardon me if I'm not moved by the 0.025% extra.

3. Why I personally don't see NejiHina as a sibling relationship

The first thing people would point out is that Hinata refers to Neji as Neji-niisan. However, there are cultural factors to take into account here: in Asia, referring to someone as "brother" does Not necessarily mean you perceive a sibling relationship with them. Case in point: Konohamaru refers to Naruto as "Naruto-niichan." Udon and Moegi do the same in the anime (though they've had fewer contacts with Naruto in the manga). In the Tea country anime filler arc, Sasami blushed heavily at the sight of her cousin, whom she also referred to as nii-chan. In Asia, and in Japan specifically, "brother" can be a semi-generic familiar term much like how in the west, people can refer to an old person as "that old grandpa."

Also, as someone has pointed out, in Japan people rarely refer to someone as "cousin," instead automatically use "nii-san." This is despite the fact that cousin marriages may be viewed as okay. There are actually some instances of arranged cousin marriages (even if they didn't go through) in Japanese anime, even in light-hearted ones such as Card Captor Sakura and Digimon. I actually know someone who confessed that his grandmother is Japanese, and married her first cousin whom she used to call "nii-san:" the social implications just aren't the same as in the west.

The biggest reason I personally don't perceive a sibling relationship between Neji and Hinata, though, is that they were not socially Raised as siblings. People brought up in the same clan, as siblings, do indeed develop ties in a ways that prevent intimate romantic relationships later on. Let me say a few words on the Westermarck effect.

The Westermarck effect stipulates that children raised together at a young age will develop a sibling relationship that will lead to sexual aversion to each other later on in life. This is regardless of their actual blood affinity. However, the cited "critical" period is between infancy, and the ages 6 to 10.

Article

All of this implies that there is a critical period, sometime between infancy and the age of six or ten, during which time biological imprinting takes place which causes a later sexual aversion towards a person.

Article

The more time they had spent together during those crucial first thirty months, the more likely they were to reject the idea of marriage and more likely any subsequent marriage would fail.

Neji and Hinata haven't met until Hinata was 3 and Neji was 4. In one day, Neji developed an intense hatred of Hinata, and I doubt they've since interacted much, until Hinata was 12, and Neji 13.

The real barrier for me, though, is that Neji and Hinata were not brought up as siblings, but as members of separate Castes.

This social barrier (and further physical barriers created by Neji's initial hatred of Hinata) "prevents" in my view for a true sibling relationship to have developed between the two. Others may disagree, but this is how I view things. This separation goes on until Hinata is 12 and Neji is 13, well beyond the minimum 6 years described by Westermarck. Any Westermarck effect would "half-assed" in my opinion: they might still develop a sibling-type relationship from now on, but it wouldn't be Westermarck.

Also, when estranged siblings meet later on in life, the opposite phenomenon sometimes (some studies say "often", though I'm not too sure about that) happens: Genetic Sexual Attraction. Granted, documented cases were for people who were separated by adoption and only met when they were after 20 (not that it'd be easy to gather information for younger ages, since you don't exactly have many cases of estranged siblings finding each other when they're 14).

Article

When close proximity during this critical period does not occur - for example, where a brother and sister are brought up separately, never meeting one another - they may find one another highly sexually attractive when they meet as adults. This phenomenon is known as genetic sexual attraction.

It would be a rather half-assed case of Genetic Sexual Attraction, but it my mind is cancels out the half-assed W. effect just fine. You may disagree, but hey. Half-assed vs half-assed.

4. Besides... it's a manga, who cares?

If all fails... we're talking about fictional characters. So genetics, cultural considerations and whatnot can effectively be considered null in many instances.

If people wanted to be morally righteous, they'd be better off complaining about child labor and the glorification of violence in Naruto instead.

In the end, it's perfectly understandable if some people do view NejiHina as incest from their own cultural point of view, and thus dislike the pairing accordingly.

But they should realize that this view is not universal, just like some people don't like gay relationships, and some people do. As I've said, I had never thought of NejiHina as incest until I heard other people complain about it. The genetic argument is pretty much void even in real life, nevermind in a fictional universe. And as for the interpretation of manga relationships... again, it's subjective. Besides NaruSasu for example has outright been Stated as a "brother" relationship, but you don't see the yaoi fans labeling it incest, now do you?

To each their own, and this is my view. This, though, only describes why I don't have anything against NejiHina.

The next part is about why NejiHina fans like the pairing.


II. The appeal of NejiHina: a multi-faceted pairing

/Edit: O-kay, I have since noticed that not everybody is even up-to-date on the canon interactions between Neji and Hinata.

Apparently, some are still stuck on "Neji tried to kill Hinata!" (and Gaara tried to kill Naruto. So did Sasuke. So they'll all forever remain on bad terms?)

Also, my ears are ringing with people yelling that there is no "proof" of a romantic relationship. Of course there's no definite proof. Ever heard of crack pairing? You know... the ones that make up at good half of the Naruto fandom? (if only because of the conflicting possible main character pairings, and obviously, they're not all going to be canon. There is no proof of SasuNaru romance. Yet it's one of the most popular pairings out there!)

For those of you who need to brush up on the interactions between the two characters, pick your choice:
Watching the sun rise after the storm - my older NejiHina (cheesier) essay
The NejiHina manifesto - by Kaiyrah

Back to the essay...

end edit/

If you're only interested in why -I- like NejiHina, then you may skip this part and go to the next. But I'll have to note that mine is far from the only interpretation of NejiHina. Indeed, the variety of forms this pairing can take, thanks to the changing situations and relationships they've already gone through, is perhaps the main appeal of this pairing.

Back to this essay though, let me make things clear. NejiHina is, and will remain, a "fanon" pairing. Very few people ship NejiHina just for their canon interactions (but really, which fandom does?). Instead, they ship it for the fandom possibilities, because NejiHina spans a whole spectrum: it is described by a rainbow of "ifs" colored by the changes Neji and Hinata each went through.

What if Neji's father had been the first born?
What if Hizashi hadn't died?
What if Neji and Hinata weren't of the Hyuuga clan at all, but were able to live freely, in a happier world free of the stigma of clans?
Why did they have to be born in the one clan where the bloodline is as much a prize as a curse?

And out of the shackles of the Hyuuga policies, even more questions are raised.
What if Hinata doesn't succeed the clan?
What if Hinata -does- succeed the clan?
What if Neji takes over, and Hinata gets sent into the Branch house?
What if, in order to preserve the bloodline, Neji and Hinata were forced to marry?
What if, in the name of clan politics, Hinata were forced to marry someone else?
What if, in order to preserve the clan, Neji and Hinata chose to marry?

And in the case of any of the above, how will the two cope? Will they be brought closer together, or on the contrary, will they be torn further apart? Will they find a way to heal, or will they be broken? Are they doomed to be victims, or will they be victors? Will they even chose to stay and fight within this rotten clan, or on the contrary, will they spread their wings towards another life, outside of the clan?

Then we have Neji and Hinata themselves, with their always shifting relationships.
From childhood adoration, as Neji saw Hinata for the first time, thinking that he should protect the cute little girl. To intense hatred on one side, and helplessness on the other, as Neji learns to hate Hinata, and Hinata gets bent under the weight of her clan.

These raise more possibilities:
Will Neji revert to that sweet child who once vowed to protect Hinata?
Or on the contrary, does hate not die as easily (because, let's be honest now, Naruto's conversion sessions aren't very realistic)?
Will a newly changed Neji offer Hinata a new kind of support, a more serene, calmer one?
Or will he turn his intense hatred into a different kind of emotion?
And what about Hinata? Will she rise above her ashes?
Or on the contrary, will she once again fall into despair?
Out of all this, how does her relation with Neji evolve?
Will they view each other as kindred spirits, as mirrors, or as objects to be hated now that in some ways, the tables have turned?
And what of the clan in all this?

One thing they've never been to each other is indifferent: Neji was happy to see Hinata and first, then loathed her with a passion. Then, at the end of part I, as Neji recovered from his past wounds, Hinata became one of the few people he's ever truly smiled at and cared about. Hinata was at first helpless, but then she became the first to truly call on Neji's pain, thus setting off the events that would lead to his change of mind.

And even if they are meant to be together, would they be torn apart from the obstacles?
Will their relationship be one-sided?
Will they be able to overcome the social barriers of their clan?
Will they be able to overcome their own weaknesses?

All this is why NejiHina works range the whole spectrum as well. From fluff to angst. From family comedy to dark clan politics. From unfulfilled one-sidedness to unwanted forced marriage. From platonic observation, even repulsion, to outright smut. And all this is reflected in the fictions of this pairing (see Annex 4 - Fanfiction).

NejiHina fans take the pieces, broken or whole - of the clan, of the characters, of their relationship to each other - and piece them together. It's like a kaleidoscope: one flick of the wrist, and everything changes, even though the pieces were the same. The resulting works can be sometimes twisted, sometimes beautiful.

In the manga, we had reached a sort of serene conclusion, as Neji finds peace with himself, with his clan, and with Hinata. But the "ifs" remain, and NejiHina fans delight in exploring them, past, present and future. One thing different, one decision, and the entire outcome of their relationship would change.

The fanarts don't hurt either.

By now, maybe you can see one of the main appeals of NeijHina: the very variety that is possible because of the evolution of the two characters, and the very depth allowed by their common yet opposite backgrounds. This is why, if you were to ask different NejiHina fans what they like most about the pairing, you might come up with many different reasons. Or, they can give you the one that Sounds good, but actually ship it for the darker aspects. It doesn't matter. It's fandom.

Now what about me?

III. A different concept of love, one not limited to the couple

I do not think NejiHina to be "canon", nor do I think it will ever become "canon." I simply see no reasons for Kishimoto to develop this pairing romantically when he can simply leave it as a platonic family relationship, moreso since he doesn't seem intent on developing pairings much in this shounen manga (much less non-main-character ones). In fact, by now, I think Kishimoto might never bother to develop team 10 pairings (save ShikaTema), team 8 pairings or team Gai pairings, making a hell lot of pairings "crack," but hey, it's fandom, you're allowed to enjoy what you want.

Also, the following is only my view, and it isn't necessarily shared by everyone, not even all the NejiHina fans. The afore-mentioned sheer variety is, yes, among the reasons I enjoy the pairing. Now here's the reason I Support it, non-canon as it may be.

To understand my interpretation of NejiHina, you'd first have to go back on the definition of marriage and love.

Marriage, traditionally, was not about love. It was certainly not about two youngsters randomly meeting one day and getting hitched. Rather, it was about money, politics, or in some cases, about family. This meant the Whole family of the two about to be married, not just the two involved: in some cultures, you married as much for the in-laws as for the person facing you. You'd have to take care of said in-laws, bond with them, even as your contacts with your spouse might be limited emotionally.

And this is where, for me, NejiHina comes in. For me, NejiHina would be far from a romantic love, at least initially. But it symbolizes the union of the two broken branches. Neji and Hinata would marry not because they'd love each other, not for each other, but for the love of their family.

Simply said, I believe Neji and Hinata to be the best two to heal the broken Hyuuga clan. For me, they represent complimentary means to a common goal: the healing of the Hyuuga clan.

Neji would be the quiet strength and intelligence to support Hinata. Having transcended his past hatred, he can once again assume his role besides her as her protector, this time not out of duty, but out of choice. The birds and the clouds may end up at the same place, but Neji would have chosen this for himself.

And when people oppose Hinata, he'd silence them with his genius. If Hinata falters, I believe he can support her in his own quiet way, by reminding her of the strength she's shown him once, of how back then, like Naruto, her eyes were clearer than his. He was humble enough to remind Naruto of his strength, I believe he will be able to show the same support with Hinata. With his support, Hinata can find strength within herself and move on.

Hinata, on the other hand, is the vision that will bring the Hyuuga clan back into the sun. As I've said in my Hinata essay, I think Hinata is the best to heal the Hyuuga clan because while Neji by himself might force the Hyuuga clan back together, Hinata is the one I think would truly attempt to Heal it, to ease generations of resentment and hatred with the very touch of humanity that has been missing in the clan for so long.

Hiashi let his nephew suffer years of hatred, and whereas Neji had let himself consumed by hatred (until Naruto beat some sense into him). Hinata by contrast, despite her weakness was the one who truly had a sense of Initiative, a vision and a belief in the possibility of change. So I believe she'll be the one to truly Initialize reforms. Neji and Hiashi are physically strong, but they turned a blind eye where Hinata did not, and had to have someone else yell change at them when Hinata could hear it on her own. And Hinata might surprise opposition with her incredible persistance, unaffected by possible failures until one day, something changes.

And if she does come to doubt herself, Neji will be there as a silent reminder that she is right, and that people can change. If she lacks the necessary power to carry out her reforms, Neji would be there by her side.

Yes yes, Naruto has promised to change the Hyuugas as well. But I'm among those who believe that true change can only come from within. And for the sake of Neji and Hinata's developments, I think they're the ones who should initiate the change. Hiashi has started as well, but there's only so much he can do, not when he was helpless in sacrificing his own brother. Neji and Hinata are the new generations of Hyuugas that perhaps might make a difference.

Even if they don't succeed, perhaps, they'd lay the seeds (not That way) for a new generation to work with. It'll be hard, they will probably face opposition, but Neji and Hinata aren't complete idealists either: they're also shinobi willing to put even their lives on the line. They won't back down from reality, all the while fighting with the determination of those who have managed to change.

They may just be using each other, perhaps. They may not love each other at all, perhaps.

But their relationship would not be devoid of love, not at all. On the contrary, it'd be full of love, not of each other perhaps, but of their Clan: they'd find love in the slow healing of the Hyuuga clan. They'd find love in the eyes of new generations of Hyuuga, no longer separated by the houses, no longer bogged down by the curse seal. They'd find love in waking up each morning, knowing that their bitter past is behind them, and that nobody would have to suffer the same fate as them again. They wouldn't even need to have kids: the Hyuga clan as a whole would be their children, their love, their future. I find that to be a magnificent concept of love.

And as they face the challenges together, as they stay up late to browse through the scrolls and fall exhausted to bed each night after fighting against the council, maybe across this journey, they'd find love in each other, through the support they give each other, through the joy they receive in the reforms they've jointly accomplished. Just perhaps.

So NejiHina would not be love in the traditional sense, but it'd still be love and fulfillment, just not in the tradtional "guy meets girl and gets happily married" sense. It'd be full of challenges and possible hurt and setbacks, but the "couple" would be armed with the determination of those who have fought their own way into the sun. They would be the most dazzling example of joint leadership, and at the end of the road, even if they don't find love as a couple, they'd find love as a family.

Feel free to disagree. It is a rather unconventional interpretation of love, and that's precisely why I'm fascinated by it.

Thus concludes the essay. If you wish to find more NejiHina essays, proceed to Annex 1.




Annex 1 - Essays


Watching the sun rise after the storm - my older NejiHina essay
The NejiHina manifesto - by Kaiyrah

NejiHina defense essays

A few lessons on Enculturation - an anthropological view, by Sintari
A few facts - a few compilations by Shalei
Not all cultures consider cousin marriages as incest - addressed in more detail than in this essay
The increase in genetic risks is a lot lower than often assumed - self-explanatory
A more in-depth look on Hyuuga genetics - the specific case of the Hyuugas
Bloodline genetics - why either the Hyuugas are all inbred, or Kishimoto doesn't do genetics ^^

And for those of you who are not NejiHina fans (oy, this essay isn't dedicated solely to non-NejiHina fans), this is about it. From here I'll be listing fandom resources.




Annex 2 - Communities


Those of you who seek more of the NejiHina fandom can start with these communities.

The Hyuugacest fanclub - The Narutofan Hyuugacest fanclub.
8 Birds - The Livejournal Hyugacest community.
The Greener and Sillier Grass on Hyuuga Property - For those who want the light-heartedness of the Hyuuga family.

Hyuuga Jyuuken - A fanfiction.net Hyuugacest listing
The NejiHina Deviantart community - A small Deviantart community
The Youtube NejiHina fanclub - NejiHina AMVs
A NejiHina website

And for the rest of you, here are a few recommendations of my own.




Annex 3 - Fanarts


Deviantart fanarts


Here are some of my own recommendations. Below is a clickable gallery of deviantart works. The links will lead you directly back to the original fanwork page.





Deviantart doujins


Unfortunately, I do not have the endurance to link to every single individual page. :S Here are some links to the first page of some doujins. From there just navigate the gallery. :)

orangehope:
Autumn leaves, she smiles
The Bittersweet memories
New style NejiHina
Doujinshi

Tomato Box:
In your eyes
Neji and Hinata

KawaiiS:
Themes
Promise
Hiashi chronicles
Neji chronicles

Kamecchi
Kammechi, where in the world do you keep all your funny comics? T_T This here barely has any of those!


Japanese fanarts


Some artists have posted beautiful works on DA. On the Japanese side, NejiHina fanarts seems to be rather cyclical: we'd get truly magnificent sites, then the site will eventually close (aww), then after some time, a whole new site would open. Here are a few current recommendations:



If you don't know how to navigate them, you may always check out my fanart guide.

You can also go to Narusearch and search the entries under ネジヒナ .

Unfortunately, Japanese sites have a bigger tendency to close after a while than Deviantart accounts. As a result, some of the works may be lost. You can always try to look at the Hyuugacest Fanclub's NejiHina gallery for other artwork, though I recommend trying to find the artworks from source first. This gallery (which hasn't been updated in a while) also provides the link back to the original sites, so when possible, do visit them!


Annex 4 - Fanfiction recommendations

Annex 5 - A personal guide to writing NejiHina



Booyah! Now to update my essay masterlist. ^_^

(Post a new comment)


[info]kill_me_faster
2007-09-13 04:58 pm UTC (link)
Awww, I'm on that recs list. ^___^ This is a freaking AWESOME essay, by the way. I can't even imagine how long it took to do... @.@;;

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]heronite
2007-09-14 04:55 am UTC (link)
The essay didn't take too long. ^^

Can't say the same about the rec list. >_>

It's pretty amazing however! There are just so many interpretations of NejiHina out there! It's wonderful! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Actually, you're...?
[info]heronite
2007-09-18 08:50 am UTC (link)
.... wait, which one are you again? ^^;;; I suppose you have a DA or a FF.net account name different than kill_me_faster, right? *feels stupid*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
I AM...dun dun dun!
[info]kill_me_faster
2007-09-18 02:10 pm UTC (link)
Lorelei DiAngelo, the author of Kagome, Kagome. It was pretty much the only fic I ever wrote for the Naruto fandom, so I'm glad to see it made it onto SOME sort of list. ^__^

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: I AM...dun dun dun!
[info]heronite
2007-09-18 02:37 pm UTC (link)
OH YEAH!!! I remember now! No wonder your username Did look familiar, but I hadn't found it back in the author list. XD

I don't get your comment on fanfiction.net by the way. :S

Now that I've read the fic again, I remember that fic too! In my mind, it was the fic with the somewhat cheesy title, that turned out to be much better than the title would suggest. XD (uh, sorry. The thing is, when I see Kagome I'm reminded of Inu Yasha. XP )

It was a lovely fic though. The sense of emotions in that fic was Beautiful! Hinata telling Neji "Congratulations." Neji hoping that Hinata is experiencing pleasure. Neji trying desperately to make Hinata happy, even cutting his hair, only to earn confusion. Neji going as far as to take up Hinata's training. ... Neji speaking like Lee. XD And Hinata's soft soft hair...

But mostly, you can really feel Neji's panic and desperation in all this, maybe it was something he didn't quite understand himself. In a strange way, it was so touching! T__T OOH! It was the fic about the 10 birds! I remember that part now as well! :D I forgot which fic that was part of!

Um... heh, *cough* As you might have noticed, I've been a bit behind on commenting on fics. This is mostly true of LJ fics. China blocks LJ now as part of its internet censure program, and although I use a proxy around it... it's so slow that it's a big motivation killer. It took me several tries just to successfully make this essay post. XP

I plan to finally make up for that though, now that I've made a handy list. Slow internet or not.

Oh well. I'm rambling now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]kill_me_faster
2007-09-18 02:11 pm UTC (link)
Also kfsakfsdafd;alkfdsald fanfiction.net -__-;;

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]zamkenobi
2007-09-13 11:19 pm UTC (link)
Excellent essay and recommendations. Thank you for writing it ^_^

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]heronite
2007-09-14 11:02 am UTC (link)
It probably won't prevent them from finding excuses to bash the pairing though. Some bash it so because they support... other pairings.....

I just want them to leave us alone and not go around starting new threads where they loudly wonder what the hell is wrong with us. IT'S FANDOM, PEOPLE!!! THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF WEIRD PAIRINGS OUT THERE!

ugh. XP

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]shini_chii
2007-09-14 01:43 am UTC (link)
Lovely, well-thought, and logical essay.
I'm meming it to shove it in the face of "incest iz wr0ng u betch!!!!!!1!1!!!111!!11eleven" fanbrats for future reference.

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[info]heronite
2007-09-14 11:08 am UTC (link)
Thank you, thank you. ^^

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[info]monni_kins
2007-09-15 06:36 pm UTC (link)
I love you so much for writing this. :]]
Wonderfully written.

I love the rec list. Thank you!

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[info]heronite
2007-09-16 04:01 am UTC (link)
You're very welcome!

I love the rec list too! XD The NejiHina fandom is past, in my opinion, its "glory" days (due at least in part to the lack of NejiHina interaction. In fact, to the lack of Neji and Hinata, period >_> ), but I was quite pleasantly surprised by its accumulated heritage. It's wonderful. :D

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[info]isuzuchan44
2007-09-16 02:54 am UTC (link)
Wonderful, as usual.

Okay, so I didn't bother to read the whole thing...

BUT!

I did read most of it! :D

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[info]heronite
2007-09-16 04:02 am UTC (link)
*kicks you*

Ahahah! Then again, you had no reason to read it in full. You knew most of my opinions beforehand! XD

*kicks you anyway*

:P

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[info]ew_younerd
2007-09-18 12:23 am UTC (link)
Oooh, I just was linked this. Very good read. Good to see people still have modest opinions about the pairings they like! *has ready too many team 7 pairing debates*

The way you described it is exactly how I would see this pairing happen, if it were to happen. A gradual love that would not be devoid of issues first, but I do think there wouldn't be much drama between them. I think Neji's joy in protecting Hinata when she was a kid was also to please his Father and be a 'man' in his eyes to his father, plus...he was a kid. He's gonna be a sweetheart like any 4 year old boy would be.

But I think Hinata is one of the few people that would have the opportunity to 'get' Neji. Team Gai does through experience and working with him , while Hinata understands because of the background between them.

These two would work together awesomely. I just wish so many people wouldn't try to apply genetic or psychological (Westermarck effect) stuff to a fictional pairing. It's good to mention the communication styles and perhaps why you think the dynamics could work, but to bring up open ended research is a bit lame of people to do against a pairing. Especially because while Westermarck and GSA are both common, they do not happen all of the time.

I think what's most important is that they'd have a common goal. And I'd hope if that clan doesn't get haphazard development, that the change comes from within and not from Naruto's jesus powers.

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[info]heronite
2007-09-18 01:41 am UTC (link)
*has ready too many team 7 pairing debates*

LMAO! I avoid those now! Too much trouble! XD

Even though one shouldn't be applying real life genetics and psychology to NejiHina in the first place, I decided to address them Anyway because I can, and because otherwise, they'd all be "eww you're just avoiding the issue!" Like bleh. XP

that the change comes from within and not from Naruto's jesus powers.

*insert strained twitch*

That said, although that's my view of how things can turn out from now on, I was pleasantly surprised to see the interpretations the various fics came up with. I've even found back a NejiHina apology fic that I had been looking for Forever, hell yeah!

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[info]kaiyrah
2007-09-23 08:09 am UTC (link)
Wow... someone did a lot of research! This was certainly a delight to read, however, because I'll be frank, there isn't too much thinking involved with the Neji/Hinata fandom nowadays; it's mostly just they're "sooo cute together." I loved your interpretation of the pairing though -- that their love wouldn't be a romantic love precisely, but a mutual love for their family that gives them a connection.

Oh, just something to add though: I'm flattered that you linked to my essay, but I wrote that when I was a sophomore in high school. I have the slightly revised essay here at my journal. Not too many changes, just added a paragraph and changed up the wording here and there.

But I'll agree with you; the Neji/Hinata fandom is past its "glory days." Not only with the lack of Neji and Hinata in the canon, but... lack of Neji/Hinata fanon quality... sorry to say. I'm not the best judge, but some of the stuff out there is just... I won't even say.

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[info]heronite
2007-09-23 12:06 pm UTC (link)
Hey, Kaiyrah! *glomps*

Oh! You've made a revised version! I'll change the links then. ^^

Unfortunately, yes, NejiHina is well past its glory days. It used to be:
- we had few fanworks, but they were great ones
- then we had lots of crappy fanworks >_>
- now we have few NejiHina fanworks, and most of them are crappy x_x

Interestingly enough, alternate Hinata fandoms seem to be gaining instead, mostly SasuHina, and... DeiHina?!?! (oh well XD )

That said, despite it all, making that NejiHina rec list (especially the fanfic one) was... I must say... an absolute delight. It was a pain in the ass to do, but I was truly delighted by the cumulated heritage of this fandom. It is like I said in the second part of this essay: you just find so many interpretations. There are the wonderful, the simple, and uh... the rather disturbing ones as well, of course. X'D

In the meantime, at the very least, I can squeal at Supernova's artworks. From the little I've gathered, she's actually surprisingly good at English. But the only way to give her feedback is through the damn "Clap" system which only allows you 10 very short sentences in succession. Blah. XP

You know, I was actually hoping to write a short "NejiHina fanfic 101: the very basics" for potential NejiHina writers. It'd include the very basic tips (watch your spelling and punctuation), a link to Sintari's Must-read guide on "Show vs Tell", and further tips specifically for NejiHina, such as "don't rush the damn thing" and (personal opinion) "If you can't think of an original way to write the 'Hey Hinata! You're Branch House now. Scram! *and lo, Hinata breaks down in cheesy tears*" scene', maybe you could just skip it and focus on the aftermath (no seriously, I've read enough fanfics of Hinata breaking down and contemplating suicide at that very moment)."

... oh well.

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[info]kaiyrah
2007-09-24 01:58 am UTC (link)
Haha, I haven't heard of that one! DeiHina... Wow. That just proves that I've been out of the Naruto fandom too long. I still keep up with the canon sometimes though, when I have time.

Totally agree with you on the sad decline of NejiHina fanwork quality. I mean, I don't want to be a snob or anything, but at the same time, I've seen enough summaries boasting "Neji is the sex god of Konoha and his little cousin Hinata is the only conquest he hasn't won over" or some variation. I mean, I appreciate Neji/Hinata R-rated goodness, but seriously... what is that? There are so many possibilities for Neji and Hinata, I wonder why the fans doing fanworks these days don't do much exploring of the different options. I've actually been thinking of a NejiHina multi-part featuring evilbastardbutnotreallybecausethatwouldbetooblackandwhite!Neji. Though I still have to finish that other one... haha.

If you would write a 101 for this pairing, you would be my hero. NejiHina may be well past its glory days, but it doesn't mean that all the fanworks being churned out in recent days have to be crappy. I know there's quality out there! Maybe it just has to be encouraged. Though could you link me to Sin's Show vs Tell post? I remember reading it a long time ago but I can't seem to find it now.

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[info]heronite
2007-09-24 03:25 am UTC (link)
Show, don't tell - by Sintari (hey look! That's your comment there!)

Lovely eh? It took me hell to find back as well the first time. XP

Actually, I was hoping for the writing 101 to be a group effort. Basically, I'll post my ideas first (once I've organized them a bit), then I'll ask others to pitch in before I organize the whole into a final version. I doubt it will help much but... it'd be nice to have, and nice to point NejiHina writers to.

"Neji is the sex god of Konoha and his little cousin Hinata is the only conquest he hasn't won over"

XP Don't forget the "Omg Hinata is dumped by Naruto and now she's emo and starts to cut herself and the only one who can save her is Neji through the power of Hot! Sex!"

I can't believe I wrote that. ;_;

I mean, I appreciate Neji/Hinata R-rated goodness, but seriously... what is that?

Diddo. >_>

*sigh* It really is past its glory days. But it's still nice to read what we have already. Sintari, Hiasobi, Runespoor and many others! *heart*

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[info]kaiyrah
2007-09-24 07:44 am UTC (link)
Thanks so much for the link! It's under my browser bookmarks now, hehe.

Don't forget the "Omg Hinata is dumped by Naruto and now she's emo and starts to cut herself and the only one who can save her is Neji through the power of Hot! Sex!"

... That makes me terribly, terribly sad. As you said, though, we still have plenty of good, classic NejiHina fanworks to adore! Sometimes I read over Rosemary and am in awe because of the pure awesome in that story!

The writing 101 sounds really good, though. I'm willing to help out in the planning stages if you need it, or even in the end with the group contribution. It'll give me an opportunity to brush up on my writing, both the technical processes and the creative aspects.

*flits off to show, not tell*

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[info]heronite
2007-09-28 08:36 am UTC (link)
*poke*

http://community.livejournal.com/hyugacest/274221.html#cutid1

I don't think there are many people in the fandom left that have the attention span to read all that. XD

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[info]hiasobi
2007-10-04 08:10 pm UTC (link)
Wow, I LOVE this! The next time soneone asks me why I write Hyuuga I shall send them here XD. Lovely piece and OMG You recced so many of mine! I'm seriously flattered, and it's (selfish, I know but) so good to know others enjoy what I write. And as a Human Biology major (how's THAT for irony? And other people talk to me about genetics of my pairing liekI don't know what I'm talkign about) I love your tidbit about the small variences of the DNA that doesn't quite really mean much XD. Bravo to NejiHina fans!

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[info]heronite
2007-10-05 01:27 am UTC (link)
Omg! You've read this! I'm so honored! :D :D :D

Of course I've recced so many of yours! XD You're one of the goddesses of the NejiHina fanfic-dom! You're able to come up with so many interpretations of NejiHina, it's Amazing! And the variety of ways you execute them:
- gradual development like in the Days Passing By and Time Changed
- focus on a poignant theme like in Sight and This is not love
- focus on specific moments such as the case of Perception: Strength and Crossroads (crossroads being a Really nice alternate take on the arrange marriage scenario)
- alternate aspects of shinobi life such as in Nightingale
- even alternate points of views such as in the One Dream and in Loss.
- you're even able to do humor and smut! XD

Holy molly, you've even managed to take My favored interpretation of NejiHina and completely twist it (part 2 of crossroads: what Neji says in his mind is exactly how I interpret NejiHina, except Hinata is walking away here. X'D When I saw that, I lol and lol'ed. That was amazing!).

So many bad writers go with the usual cliche concepts and don't even bother to execute them well. What the hell for?!?!

The only bad thing about all this is that some of your fics were a pain to find back. XD Hahah! But it's worth it because if anything, I was also finding them back for myself.

You're a biology major! X'D Yeah, and people try to tell Us about genetics. 0.025% more in common DNA. Whoopeedoo, I'm So impressed. =\ If I wanted 50% difference, I'd have to go marry a worm. Did you read my piece on bloodline genetics? In particular, the anime seems to portray the Hyuugas, the Uchihas, the Kaguya, the Aburame And the Akimichi as a bunch of inbreds. X'D The manga is slightly better: only the Hyuugas are inbred. Apparently. People take these things too seriously, and it doesn't even have basis in Real life. Maaan.

Anyway, I'm honored you've enjoyed this piece! :D

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[info]chromde
2008-05-19 08:27 am UTC (link)
Amazing recs list, amazing essay.

What can I say? I really loved your view on Nejihina.

I mean, it's not really my cup of tea (to me, Neji will eternally be the overprotective big brother that grills the boyfriends while Hinata touches up her make up . . .) but I really loved the 'mutual love for family/needed marriage' kinda thing. I wouldn't mind reading something like that . . . I think the only other Nejihina I read was depressingly one-sided. ("You're beautiful, Hinata." ". . . I love Naruto . . . kthnxbai." ". . . )= (has sex with Temari)".) (Great fic, by the way . . . Caged . . . with a . . . interesting plot.)

I never really consider Nejihina incest, because you know what, I can deal with cousins. Go ahead. What always got me was the fact that their fathers were twins, and it was just so heavily implied they were identical. It just doesn't work out that way in my mind, knowing so many identical twins. (Mwuah, my social, North American barriers cannot be overcome.) But hey, they don't have to have kids, I can deal with smut. (Guilty of having looked at/read Nejihina smut at some point or another.)

Though I couldn't help but notice your discussion up there. "Neji is the sex god of Konoha and the only person he hasn't gotten is his sweet cousin Hinata" or something. Wo-ah. I hope that was made up. Seriously, I know for some reason slut!Neji has garnered a huge fanbase . . . but that doesn't even sound like the slut!Neji I know. 0=

(cries in corner.)

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[info]heronite
2008-05-19 11:42 am UTC (link)
I mean, it's not really my cup of tea

No problem. ^^ Glad you liked my view despite that! As for Caged... I think I've read that. XD

Guilty of having looked at/read Nejihina smut

Diddo. >_>;;

"Neji is the sex god of Konoha and the only person he hasn't gotten is his sweet cousin Hinata"

Ah? *looks up* Oh yes, Kaiyrah's comment! Actually, it's usually that Neji does amazingly well his first time with Hinata despite being a virgin himself *cough* or that he's doing a Great job jumping other girls in order to not jump Hinata (say wasn't that the case of Caged?) though he ends up jumping her anyway. ._o;;

Though... I Did once come across a badly-written NejiHinaNaru where Neji is Konoha's go-to dildo and Hinata sometimes goes to him even though she's going out with Naruto. Or something. Don't ask, I did say it wasn't too well written. D:

I do prefer Neji in a monogamous relationship with Hinata myself. :P

Though as I like LeeHina and don't mind NejiLee, some NejiHinaLee wouldn't be too bad in my book either.

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(Anonymous)
2008-05-21 03:33 am UTC (link)
You know what? Neji and Hinata should enter into a passionate binding romance without having ever been with anyone else, and it'll be all, "Like A Virgin" style or something. I'd dig that.

DANG IT I THINK YOU'RE CONVERTING ME.

In Caged, Neji releases his inner pervert after sleeping with the whore who slept with his dad who slept with his uncle who slept with Neji who (again) slept with Tenten and Temari and Hinata. I think he just discovered his suppressed hormones at some point . . .

Haha I am going to look up this NejiHinaNaru. Bad fanfictions remind me that it can always get worse . . . like Letters of Happy, by Claudias Magical Pencil. (Heheh the Sasusaku amuses me.And the Naruneji. (?!) All in broken English. xD)

I love those two pairings too (LeeHina and NejiLee, I shall not comment on my possible liking of any of the above two), so NejiHinaLee would be like . . . awesome on a stick, and drizzled with chocolate. I think I will amuse myself deeply by searching that after the bad NejiHinaNaru.

xD

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[info]chromde
2008-05-21 03:34 am UTC (link)
Hahah, logged in.

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(from holdingontobelieve)
(Anonymous)
2008-06-22 10:20 am UTC (link)
I must say I really did enjoy reading this! Not because I am much of a NejiHina shipper but it is a really excellent and well-organized essay. (I completely ate up what you wrote in the NaruSaku Manifeso. But that was probably because of my present irritation with HinaNaru and SasuSaku fans. It was everything I ever wished to say in defence of that pairing. :D Beautiful!)
It's a sweet pairing that I can tell (because of the fanart and fansites you mentioned XD) a lot of people are having fun with!
I also saw another essay that you pointed out in one of your posts. I forget who wrote it but does the word 'copyright' mean anything to you? I'm fairly sure after reading both of these that over 3/4 of her essay was taken from right here. -__- (I'd be ticked.)
More to the point then! I'm glad you wrote this! I think I was starting to sink in to all of the NejiTen fandom around here. I hope that you continue to write more Naruto Essays on livejournal!

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Re: (from holdingontobelieve)
[info]heronite
2008-06-22 11:15 am UTC (link)
Are you talking about that person on Deviantart that plagiarized my essay? That was so... Argh! I mean, many sections were straight copy-paste, and for most of the remaining sections she copied my expressions and examples! She removed it after I got mad at her, but when I pressed the issue further, noting that she had committed plagiarism, her answer was that she hadn't "thought of it that way."

Uuuuuugh.

Apparently, she found it on another site that said that people could "use it." Sure people can use my essays and arguments, go Right ahead! Spread the NejiHina love or at least defend it! But don't claim you wrote it by yourself! And to think she bragged about writing it left and right, but never once suggested that she got it somewhere else! The worst part is that she is an artist that complains about other people plagiarising Her works!

Oh well. It's over now at least.

I do have other Naruto essays, they're on my LJ. But most other ones aren't pairing-related. :P

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Re: (from holdingontobelieve)
(Anonymous)
2008-07-15 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, the Deviatart one... =_= Ugh, that must have been irritating. Really if you're going to promote a couple by posting things on the internet go for quality and not quantity. Who wanted to see a shorter and in my opinion... umm... (How do I put this nicely..?) less good persuasive essay copyed off of yours that was a choppy, unorganized mess. (Oops, wait. I lost it. That wasn't putting it too nicely was it? :D)
Oh and by the way, a completely random comment... You're really tempting me to become a LV user...I'm tired of having to comment as 'anonymous' all the time on your essays. XD

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Re: (from holdingontobelieve)
(Anonymous)
2009-05-02 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Ok, i'm not gonna be mean but yeah. i would like to point out that if all the things in there past never happened that you mentioned, there your characters. i mean peoples personalitys are based off of there past. if you take away there sad pasts then you take away there charecter, all they are is a shell that you use by using there design( the way they look) except for neji wouldnt have his scar, but then they would just be people that you were using. neji wouldnt be sad and angry, hinata wouldnt be as shy.and thats who neji and hinata are, if neji was nice and hinata was mean would they be kishimotos charecters neji and hinata anymore?no. so your not talking about the naruto manga anymore. your talking about your couple, your charecters, and your incest. not the people that kishimoto designed, he made there pasts the way they are for a reason. so that they would have there personalitys. so intead, maybe you should just make your own original charecters, then you can make there pasts, personalitys, and love for eachother however you want. the point is that hinata does not love neji romantically, and neji doesnt seem to love hinata that way either, thats how kishimoto made his charecters, do you actually think that in the manga there gonna suddenly love eachother and get married? No. so please stop making them seem like charecters that they are not.

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[info]misslune
2009-06-23 09:20 pm UTC (link)
While I really am a Naruto/Hinata shipper (XD), I can really appriaciate the argument you have given, especially around the bit about not being raised as close. I do have a bit of an issue with the genetics. Weren't Hiashi and Hizashi idendical twins with the same DNA? That would make Neji and Hinata genetically half-siblings, making their risk for issues higher than what you quoted.

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