an absolute word tart! ([info]schemingreader) wrote in [info]hp_britglish,
@ 2007-09-23 22:04:00
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On top of a cake: frosting? icing?
Hello!

If you were having cake and there was some sweet gooey stuff on top for decoration, would you say that was "the icing on the cake"? Is icing only the pretty letters, and frosting is the name for the main, um, variety of goop? Or do you say one more than the other?

If we just say "frosting" in a story, will that mark the story as horribly American? Or just tasty?

ETA: Thanks for enlightening me! Icing it is, and it sounds like we need to specify "buttercream" or "ganache" to give the impression of something like the ideal pleasantly melty stuff we mean. It also sounds like there are some regional and class differences about who likes such a thing on cakes!



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[info]blacknarcissus2
2007-09-24 02:24 am UTC (link)
Icing. Definitely icing. We don't use "frosting" at all for that. :D

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[info]schemingreader
2007-09-24 02:28 am UTC (link)
How about types of icing? "Buttercream" is a nice one. It's soft and melty. Then there's ganache, that's the stuff inside chocolates. There's also fondant, which you wouldn't really want to eat plain, I think. Any of those ring a bell with you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]eleanorb
2007-09-24 05:49 am UTC (link)
Icing (the word used on its own) is the hard white stuff you have over marzipan on fruitcake. Is that what you call fondant - fondant here is often used for a soft white filling in sweets. Buttercream icing is the soft butter and icing sugar icing. Others would have their confectionary names; so chocolate fudge icing, cream cheese icing. Or we may say ice with cream cheese/chocolate fudge.

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(no subject) - [info]zooey_glass04, 2007-09-24 07:49 am UTC

[info]ringbark
2007-09-24 04:51 am UTC (link)
Always icing.

(Reply to this)


[info]sollersuk
2007-09-24 07:15 am UTC (link)
Icing. "Frosting" is totally American. But it is very rarely gooey, and "goop" is not a word that would apply. Mostly it is very hard, though fondant icing is softer. Anything as soft as eg butter icing would not be on top of a cake, only in the middle; you don't want people's hands to get messy when eating the cake.

And on that subject, eating cake with a fork is seen as very pretentious. It is usually confined to fancy foreign things like "Black Forest Gateau" which are eaten as desserts (with fork and spoon), not, like cake, as a thing at teatime, elevenses or some other time during the day between proper meals.

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[info]ias
2007-09-24 08:53 am UTC (link)
Anything as soft as eg butter icing would not be on top of a cake, only in the middle

Bollocks, to put it midly. Butter icing is regularly seen on the top of sponge cakes all over the place.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lockedintheatti, 2007-09-24 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sollersuk, 2007-09-24 10:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 09:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blamebrampton, 2007-09-25 07:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blamebrampton, 2007-09-25 07:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 09:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sollersuk, 2007-09-24 10:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 01:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sam_t, 2007-09-24 02:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 03:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sollersuk, 2007-09-24 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cspinks, 2007-09-25 05:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-25 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-25 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clanwilliam, 2007-09-24 12:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thedivinegoat, 2007-09-24 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]richenda, 2007-09-25 03:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-25 04:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wednesdayschild, 2007-09-25 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-25 06:06 pm UTC

[info]oncelikeshari
2007-09-24 08:45 am UTC (link)
If it's gunky it's not really icing.

And nothing is called frosting over here, it's an American word.

I see on US Tv shows that people drag their finger along a cake and scoop off frosting to eat it. Icing doesn't scoop, it's smooth and hard or at least very firm like marzipan. If we scoop something off a cake and eat it it's whipped cream off a gateaux.

Nobody puts whipped cream on a fruit cake or even a sponge cake.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ias
2007-09-24 08:55 am UTC (link)
I think you are wrong. We do ahve buttercream icing over here and you also get ganache style icing on top of cakes. Both of which you can definitely scoop up with a finger.

Heck, even on a hot day you can scoop up standard galce icing (water and icing sugar) as it can become soft in heat.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 10:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-09-24 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]clanwilliam, 2007-09-24 12:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-09-25 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 01:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-09-25 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 04:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-09-24 05:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 05:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-09-24 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-09-24 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 05:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-09-24 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chvickers, 2007-09-24 06:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sollersuk, 2007-09-24 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]biascut, 2007-09-24 10:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lockedintheatti, 2007-09-24 09:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 09:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-09-24 12:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 03:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]biascut, 2007-09-24 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oncelikeshari, 2007-09-24 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thewhiteowl, 2007-09-25 04:32 pm UTC

[info]suntzu_s
2007-09-24 09:00 am UTC (link)
Gooey stuff is either butter-icing or butter-cream, if you use icing on it's own, it would make me think of royal-icing that's rock-hard. Frosting is totally American, we know what it is but we wouldn't use it.

(Reply to this)


[info]rosinarowantree
2007-09-24 09:23 am UTC (link)
"Frosting" to me would mean dusting a cake with icing sugar to make it look like Jack Frost had just brushed past it - definitely not properly made icing.

(Reply to this)


[info]hobbitblue
2007-09-24 09:31 am UTC (link)
*reads comments* my, that's all getting confusing. We don't use the word frosting, and for the general casual reader, the word "icing" will mean the white or coloured stuff with or without letters or patterns - if you're talking about christmas cake or wedding cake, people will get the correct mental image of white royal icing with raised designs and likely marzipan underneath. If you're thinking of cream cheese or chocolate fudge or buttercream slathered on the cake, its best to be specific, "coffee cake with a rich layer of buttercream on top" or whatever.

Damnit, want cake now! ::giggle::

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ias
2007-09-24 09:37 am UTC (link)
Absolutely agree with your suggestions for usage.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

*barges in*
[info]tsosh
2007-09-24 10:28 am UTC (link)
So if I want to describe what's on top of this cake -

would it be "chocolate fudge icing"?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: *barges in* - [info]hobbitblue, 2007-09-24 10:48 am UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]biascut, 2007-09-24 10:51 am UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]professoryaffle, 2007-09-24 10:51 am UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]sollersuk, 2007-09-24 10:54 am UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]tsosh, 2007-09-24 11:09 am UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]ias, 2007-09-24 01:15 pm UTC
Re: *barges in* - [info]macmauve, 2007-09-25 04:03 pm UTC
Re: *barges in* - (Anonymous), 2007-10-02 08:08 pm UTC

[info]rosinarowantree
2007-09-24 01:34 pm UTC (link)
And if your character is actually making the cake, don't forget that licking out the bowl for the icing is a special treat. We were so short of treats that even scraping the bowl the sponge mixture had been made in was eagerly sought after.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]aunty_marion
2007-09-24 09:22 pm UTC (link)
"By now she's old enough to bake
Her favourite swain a layer cake;
But, bless her sweet and merry soul,
She's young enough to lick the bowl."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rosinarowantree, 2007-09-24 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aunty_marion, 2007-09-24 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]busaikko, 2007-09-24 10:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]busaikko, 2007-09-24 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 10:10 pm UTC

[info]werewolf_lib
2007-09-24 02:55 pm UTC (link)
Who knew that finishing off a cake could be such serious business?

I have nothing to add except that the combination of your icon and the subject matter has me awfullt curious!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schemingreader
2007-09-24 03:01 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I am once again feeling the guilt that comes from stimulating this comm to acrimonious debate about something that I fully intend to use for, um, salacious purposes in a fic. I don't know how I do it. I just wanted to use the right word!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 04:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]celandineb, 2007-09-24 04:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]celandineb, 2007-09-24 05:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]celandineb, 2007-09-24 06:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]werewolf_lib, 2007-09-24 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 06:46 pm UTC
Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]gallerykezza, 2007-09-24 09:28 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 09:38 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]letmypidgeonsgo, 2007-09-25 05:22 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-25 09:31 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]piperx, 2007-09-25 06:57 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-25 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]werewolf_lib, 2007-09-24 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]erastes, 2007-09-24 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 09:39 pm UTC
(followed cruisedirector over here) - [info]dharma_slut, 2007-09-25 12:19 am UTC

[info]djinnj
2007-09-24 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Wow.

I wonder what sorts of response a French buttercream would get. o.O

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schemingreader
2007-09-24 05:21 pm UTC (link)
If you provide a recipe, a very enthusiastic one!

From me, I mean.

"There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

:D - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 05:38 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 07:57 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 08:11 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 08:24 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 08:42 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 08:53 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 08:59 pm UTC
Re: :D - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 09:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 09:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 09:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-24 09:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2007-09-25 01:10 pm UTC
peeks out - [info]doire, 2007-09-24 08:23 pm UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 08:41 pm UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 09:41 pm UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-24 09:46 pm UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]doire, 2007-09-25 09:40 am UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]djinnj, 2007-09-25 05:52 pm UTC
Re: peeks out - [info]shadowspinner, 2007-09-25 01:19 pm UTC

[info]chvickers
2007-09-24 05:57 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and remember that if you write about the cake being made, the icing is made from icing sugar, not confectioner's sugar.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schemingreader
2007-09-24 06:00 pm UTC (link)
The pathetic thing is, we aren't writing about the cake being made! I'm shaking my head and laughing here. So embarrassing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Icing...oh the humanity! part deux - [info]gallerykezza, 2007-09-24 10:17 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! part deux - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-24 10:23 pm UTC
Re: Icing...oh the humanity! part deux - [info]cruisedirector, 2007-09-25 09:29 pm UTC

[info]legionseagle
2007-09-25 08:14 pm UTC (link)
Actually, my handy stand-by The Dairy Book of Family Cookery, published by the Milk Marketing Board in 1983 (it was the follow up to The Dairy Book of Home Cookery published a decade or so earlier) which one got cheap with milk-bottle tops (which hardly suggests it was aimed at the idle rich) has a section headed "Icings and Frostings" beginning with Butter Frosting (which contains milk) and which has eight variants, Fudge Frosting (which contains cream), Whipped Cream Frosting (which contains nothing requiring explanation), Butter cream (which contains egg yolks), glace icing (which contains "edible food colouring, optiona;" and if you've read as much as I have about uses of arsenic in green colouring you'll see why "edible" is specified) and finally Royal Icing (contains egg whites and glycerine - many of these recipes are now un-makeable owing to chemists becoming twitchy about the things they are actually prepared to sell to you). Specific recipes involving butter cream on top (and while I've always thought slash fic takes the question of who tops and who bottoms to absurd extremes I'd say this current debate takes the biscuit on that matter) include Balmoral Almond Cake (piped in fancy rosettes), dark ginger cake, toddy cake (you put whisky in the butter cream on this one), chocolate fudge cake (decorated piped butter-cream ring around chocolate covered cake, so that the half-dipped in chocolate almonds can be stuck into it, coffee praline gateau and coffee fudge sandwich.

I've never actually known anyone use the term "frosting" in England, but obviously the Milk Marketing Board thought it was ok.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]schemingreader
2007-09-25 08:20 pm UTC (link)
"and if you've read as much as I have about uses of arsenic in green colouring you'll see why "edible" is specified"

bwa ha ha ha!

"Specific recipes involving butter cream on top (and while I've always thought slash fic takes the question of who tops and who bottoms to absurd extremes I'd say this current debate takes the biscuit on that matter"

*Dies and is ded* *revives to complete comment response*

You don't know how much I enjoy this sort of research. I know they don't even deliver milk in bottles in much of England any longer, so this is a very cool source.

I think we're going to with "icing" since there seems to be consensus that it is the current term, and also you know that's what A.A. Milne used in Winnie the Pooh. (Lately I've been reading that a lot.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]legionseagle, 2007-09-25 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schemingreader, 2007-09-25 09:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gaycrow, 2007-09-25 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2007-09-26 10:35 am UTC

[info]persephone_kore
2007-09-25 08:49 pm UTC (link)
I have wandered in through varied strange links, and I don't have any fics in progress that require a detailed description of cake, but I hope it's all right anyway to mention that the list and side comments you offer are both informative and hilarious. :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]lexin
2007-09-26 10:33 am UTC (link)
I know we've said this before, but your mother and mine really are sisters-separated-at-birth.

The chocolate cake (with buttercream icing in the middle and on the top) from the Dairy cookery book was my birthday treat every year from when she got the book to well after I got married. And it was the early version obtained through the saving of bottle tops.

To this day, my mother saves bottle tops, but these days we're a bit baffled about why.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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