Mr. Dark ([info]mr_dark) wrote in [info]hoaxes,
@ 2003-11-25 19:18:00
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Current mood: accomplished

Tackling John Titor, Time Traveller
(Crossposted from my LJ.)

In the last couple of days I've been introduced to an interesting tale. A tale that disturbed me, concerned me, made me wonder if our world as we know it has less than 15 years left.

It is the tale of John Titor, a self-proclaimed time traveler from the year 2036.

Okay, it sounds crazy. It's not crazy, though...it's simply a hoax. It's a compelling hoax, so I decided to write my take on it. After some initial 'what if' excitement about it, the reality set in that this wasn't what it appeared to be. In this piece, I hope to prove relatively clearly that his claims are false both in theory and in fact. He seemed to know enough about physics to pass amongst laymen, but unfortunately he skipped philosophy and economics while he was reading all those physics books. Since this story just won't seem to die and there is evidence that the same perpetrator is now claiming to be an alien on various boards across the web, I felt it was worth sitting down and analyzing.


I should begin by providing the source material. This is the best collective of John Titor records I could find. I don't know who owns the domain or runs the site, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's 'Titor' himself. The skew is absolutely 'pro' Titor, clutching at the most remote potential 'proof' that what he claimed is true.

John's tale is one that is easy to believe. In a few short years from when he began telling it, the United States was to face some sort of internal crisis resulting in a civil war, one of militias and rural gun owners against totalitarian city states ruled by the federal government. Beginning in 2004 and early 2005, this civil 'flares up and down' for ten years until, in 2015, Russia attacks the government of the United States (AKA the urban city states), China and the European Union. The war is short and very nuclear. He claims that the US government (which he dubs the 'AFE (American Federal Empire)') is destroyed, along with the European Union and China. He says that in 2036, Russia is the new United States' primary trading partner.

Along with these claims of war, he makes reference to CJD (AKA Mad Cow Disease) becoming 'pandemic' by 2036 due to our current misunderstanding of how it gestates. (An apparent latency period of 10-30 years leads to virtually every meat eater in the world coming down with it.) He gives many details about the world of the future and his time machine, as well as his 'mission' in the past.

He revealed his story using bulletin boards across the web, particularly Art Bell's P2P bulletin board and anomalies.net. He seemed to answer people's questions to the best of his ability, but refused to answer certain questions based on a code of ethics. He supplied pictures of his time machine, even scans of the operational manual with cutaway technical drawings.

In April of 2001, he 'returned' to the year 2036 to complete his mission.

He never tried to convince anyone, at least, not overtly. He never asked for anything, never tried to sell anything, even refused to help change our potential future for reasons he attempted to explain based on his religious faith and knowledge of time travel and 'worldlines'.

The problem is, it was all a lie. He stayed a little too long and started to get his answers crossed up. I'm going to attempt to address some of the major flaws in his story and possibly debunk this story once and for all.

Economics
Titor mentioned economics a few times.

'There is no large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational items. Food and livestock is grown and sold locally.'
'Life is much more rural in the future but "high" technology is used to communicate and travel. People raise a great deal of their own food and do
more "farm" work. Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of
Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company that maintains "wireless" Internet nodes.'
'Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized. Banking
is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no income taxes.'

All good, right?

He stumbles here:

'In 2036, community life is a bit different. People are valued and judged based on their contribution and worth. Work is organized around the family and the value of that work is assessed inside of the community. Most communities range in size from 1000 to 4000 people. If a family wanted to move from one community to another or if a son or daughter wanted to move to another community, they must apply and be interviewed by the community leadership council. During this process, the family or individual is evaluated as to whether or not the work or skill they have is required or necessary to that individual community. Once accepted, the family or individual is expected to uphold their end of the work and support the community. If they don't, the community stops supporting them and they are forced to change their attitude or move away from the community.

The family work we did was picking, sorting and shipping oranges by sailboat up and down the coast of Florida. We were expected to produce a certain
amount for the community and a certain amount for other communities as agreed to by our CLC. In exchange, we received power, water, a certain amount of food and other necessities that were produced inside our community.'

He basically describes communal living. The economy is communist, with work creating goods or providing services in exchange for other goods and services. Where do credit cards enter into this picture? Money? The ability to make money or pay credit card bills? They don't. Those are elements of a capitalist society...the exact opposite of the cultural picture he paints in those paragraphs.

It gets worse.

'The people who sign my paycheck told me why we needed a 5100 and sent me off to get one.'

So he gets a paycheck. Does that sound like the trading/communal system? Watch as the economics of his claims fall apart.

'27. Yes, paper money is still widely used.'
'Does money look different than it does now? No, money is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, I do not have any money with me because I wouldn't be able to use it here.'
'Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in 2010 or 2020? Yes, we use money. That's a good question. I don't see why you couldn't use
your current bills in the future.'

It IS a good question. Currently, the value of the dollar is based on a 'floating currency system'. In 2002 that became a -dual- currency system when the Euro came out as the competition on the world market for dollar share. A good link describing money in the US is here.

The current system of currency would collapse in the event of a catastrophic world war wiping out the financial centers and banking hubs of the world. Paper money would just be paper, as there would be no banks or federal reserve to guarantee it. Even falling back on the old gold standard wouldn't work, as there wouldn't be a United States government to put one in place. (Is one to believe that Fort Knox would be spared from the nuclear barrage? Lots of tanks there as well as gold.) Even -if-, in the 20 years since the initial attacks, the U.S. had managed to create a new monetary system to replace the old, and give it some sort of basis that would allow for trading it not only amongst ourselves for goods and services but also with other countries, our current money would certainly be worthless seeing as how it's value is based on systems no longer valid after the catastrophic destruction of half of mankind.

There are other economic and logical problems with his story. GE makes the time machine...but surely, all urban areas were destroyed? Somehow not only did GE (headquartered in New York City) somehow survive as a company, but their research and development allowed them to continue current research UNABATED throughout civil and nuclear war! Quite an amazing company, that GE.

Moving forward, we run into philosophical problems with his time travel model.

The entirety of his explanation for time travel is based on one single concept: that there are infinite universes where every single possible occurance has already played out. Each one of these universes is a 'worldline' and the time machine allows you to return to the past by jumping 'worldlines' into one where you were in a time machine and arrived at that time. This explains away all of the philosophical questions about time travel, paradoxes, etc. You aren't changing YOUR past, it's a past virtually identical to yours. You can't return to YOUR future, it's a future virtually identical to yours. He explains this away here:

'However, the reason there are no paradoxes is because the universe doesn't care how we react to its handy-work. In a Universe made up of infinite worldliness (super universe), everything is possible and has a 100% probability, therefore: no paradoxes.'

Now, stay with me here. Matter leaves one worldline. That matter is the machine and the human transported in it. That matter appears in another worldline. The very fact that it appeared in that worldline makes it a different worldline.

However.

How can matter jump from one worldline to another? If all you are doing is creating another worldline, then that worldline is changed the moment you interact with it. In short, every single moment and movement you make is represented by another worldline, to infinity. Even the slightest variation in 'reality' or action is represented by another worldline.

If that is true, then there is no empirical 'you'. 'You' are not travelling anywhere. Your consciousness cannot go from one worldline to another simply because every moment a new 'you' is created in a new worldline. Nothing 'goes' from one to another, there is no possible way for them to be linked because they simply do not exist relative to one another! In order for matter to transfer from one worldline to another, according to this theory, then one empirical, overriding worldline would have to exist. One 'you' would be able to jump from one reality to the other. Changes you make to that reality would be changes. By bridging two worldlines in such a way, you run into quite the philosophical paradox indeed. Where do you exist?

He explains this away by saying that he won't return to his worldline, that he'll just return to another almost exactly like it. He also says he'll have to jump back to his original destination (1975). Later, he says he has to hit 1998, THEN 1975, THEN back to 2036. Using his reasoning, he's bridging six different worldlines...the original 2036, the first 1975, the 2001, the 1998, the second 1975, and the second 2036. When you have to imagine the 'hims' in all these relatively identical worldlines making the same bridges, eventually the lines start to cross. Logic and reason break down, paradoxes occur, and the whole thing becomes simply impossible. Let's not even broach the subject of his so called 'ethics' in attempting to avoid changing our worldline, yet giving us details of an impending civil war and a nuclear war thereafter.

This smacks of a hoax from the start. It has all of the classic elements of a well-planned hoax. The paranormal individual has a reason to avoid direct questions, or to proclaim ignorance about anything direct. Using educated guesses and estimates of his audience, he spins tales that sound soothing to their ears. (His libertarian-ish militia-happy anti-goverment future plays well to the conspiracy types over at anomalies.net and his other haunts.) Really, he's not far removed from cold-reading psychics or old time spiritualists. Do a little research and be ready to wow them with knowledge from beyond!

Towards the end, his tale fell apart completely. He had personal contact with some of the anomalies.net board mods and promised far more than he could deliver. After repeatedly stepping on his own story (in examples given above and those I didn't go into) he promised a video would be made of his 'jump' home. Word had it that the video was made...then it simply never arrived. The final breakdown of his story appears in this link, as the moderators discover that he is indeed still with us...posing as an alien on another board.

And so, one of the best hoaxes of the information age comes to a close. Does anyone have any opinions or questions?




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(Deleted post)

[info]shadowcynic
2003-11-25 08:51 pm UTC (link)

Orson Welles creeped a lot of people out with his 1938 broadcast of 'War of the Worlds'. Granted, he achieved no small amount of fame (and to a degree infamy) for it, but the point isn't what happened to the author after the story was told so much as how the story was told.

Decades later there was the Blair Witch Project. By blurring the line between fantasy and reality, they made the movie much more frightening than your typical slasher horror flick.

How much more enjoyable (read: creepy) would Blair Witch Project have been if the filmmakers had never claimed credit for their movie, instead distributing it to the net and letting word-of-mouth pass it around? Sure, their audience might not have been as wide, but each individual member of the audience would have enjoyed the production that much more for the fact that they weren't sure of the origins.

Reading over the time-traveller story, I think it's an excellent piece of science-fiction, made even better by the fact that little is known of the author. Who knows, it might actually be true?

Though in more likelyhood, it's just a better story because we can't put our finger on the fact that it's just a story.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]rude_dude, 2004-08-10 01:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dark83, 2004-01-21 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_dark, 2004-01-22 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]indiestructible, 2004-01-22 01:18 pm UTC
thank goodness
[info]quodsumeris
2003-12-16 08:27 am UTC (link)
i was glad to come across a rational analysis of the Titor story. I heard about it this morning on the way to finals from my younger (read: gullible) brother, he was thoroughly creeped out. can't wait to share this with him. as i was reading the info, before finding your journal, it occurred to me that his 'worldline' doesn't sound so far off from he high pitched rantings of angry politicians on crossfire or hardball, lol. given the fiascos of recent diplomatic, economic and political history, anyone with a lot of time and imagination could have woven the story. i've read on some places that the time displacement equipment he pictured was nothing more than army surplus gear anyone can pick up. eh, weird. still, i like it better than ghost stories for the kiddies.

jeni

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: thank goodness
[info]megabob60
2005-09-07 10:05 pm UTC (link)
I saw the "jump" video and a picture of his "time traveler machine" and in fact, his machine looks very similar to a vacuume cleaner sold in KATUN, that is used to clean toner from the copier machines, beleive me, those are very, very similar, I don't have a picture but I'm sure you can find one online.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: thank goodness - [info]mr_dark, 2005-09-07 10:30 pm UTC
Re: thank goodness - [info]megabob60, 2005-09-08 12:04 am UTC
Re: thank goodness - [info]mr_dark, 2005-09-08 12:19 am UTC
Re: thank goodness - [info]megabob60, 2005-09-08 02:28 pm UTC
Re: thank goodness - [info]mr_dark, 2005-09-08 06:32 pm UTC
Re: thank goodness - [info]megabob60, 2005-09-08 07:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rickietogni, 2008-08-06 06:15 am UTC
Excellent
[info]nulliar
2004-01-19 01:03 am UTC (link)
Awesome article/work/read, there.

I just learned about this hoax tonight and I was pretty well convinced that Titor was a defensive liberal trying to stir up trouble. Thanks for finding the words and evidence to solidify my opinion.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Excellent
[info]miryth
2004-02-15 04:15 pm UTC (link)
"a defensive liberal trying to stir up trouble"
Is it just me, or does this make little sense? Both "defensive" and "trying to stir up trouble"...

Also, I don't see why this article does anything, at all, to disprove the hoax. But I suppose that's just me.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Excellent - [info]miryth, 2004-02-15 04:20 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2004-02-15 04:39 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]miryth, 2004-02-15 05:34 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2004-02-15 06:34 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]miryth, 2004-02-15 06:59 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2004-02-15 08:24 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 12:31 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 12:39 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:29 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:36 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:47 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:48 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:01 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:56 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:02 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:04 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:06 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]boosterj28, 2004-11-02 02:37 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2004-11-02 09:41 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]boosterj28, 2004-11-03 06:12 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 12:44 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 12:55 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:28 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:34 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:37 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:48 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:55 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]meindert, 2005-08-01 03:35 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-08-01 05:49 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]sensamecca, 2005-08-10 04:00 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-02 10:18 pm UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-03 04:05 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-03 06:51 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-05 12:04 am UTC
Re: Excellent - [info]juniper_faun, 2009-01-22 12:49 pm UTC
Just Build One
[info]indiestructible
2004-01-22 01:15 pm UTC (link)
Okay, there's blueprints, a picture, etc. Let's just build one and see if it works. Presto!

If everything was blown to shit, how'd he get all the equipement, parts, etc. to build this time machine?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Just Build One
[info]mr_dark
2004-01-22 02:00 pm UTC (link)
That's one of my favorite parts of the story.

The U.S. government is toast, big chunks of the country are destroyed by nuclear war and a plague of mad cow disease, but GE is still going strong!

LOL

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just Build One - [info]indiestructible, 2004-01-22 05:59 pm UTC
Re: Just Build One - [info]mr_dark, 2004-01-22 06:26 pm UTC
Re: Just Build One - [info]indiestructible, 2004-01-22 06:28 pm UTC
Re: Just Build One - [info]mr_dark, 2004-01-22 06:49 pm UTC
Re: Just Build One - [info]indiestructible, 2004-01-22 07:54 pm UTC
Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies
[info]chugs
2004-02-01 10:00 pm UTC (link)
Obviously the entire John Titor story was fabricated by SF writers, either Dean Koontz (although i doubt this) or Michael Cricton (not sure on the spelling). They probably consulted several scientist ie Tipler (hence his lack of reply to the anomalies people)

In any case these millionaires are the only one with the time, imagination, money to create such a story, and more so the motive to do so...With the recent advent of the Time travel movie it appears that the Titor story was a ploy to soften the market, make them more malleable to the plausibility of "timelines".

Remember Criction was the master (with the studio) on how Jurassic park was feed to the public. Bit by bit almost to the point where the mob was ready to tear cinemas down if the film didn't play.

Ironically it’s another SF writer that talks about this in-depth, William Gibson, in one of his more recent novels. I guess its just just the use of meme’s to spread an idea/concept. Its just been amplified by the use of the internet

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies
[info]mr_dark
2004-02-01 10:18 pm UTC (link)
The 'recent advent of the time travel movie'???

Um, ever heard of Dr. Who? Time After Time? The Rod Taylor version of The Time Machine? Hell, Austin Powers???

I still stand by my belief that the Titor story is a hoax, but I think your theory is just a bit odd. In fact, I think giving Titor the credit of being equal to a Koontz or a Crichton is a bit of an insult to those talented writers. They would have consulted with enough people to shore up each one of the plots they revealed, rather than leave the gaping holes I point out in my piece.

It's clear to me this was the work of one or more bored Net junkies who get off on jerking people's chains. This is shored up by the claim on one of the Titor boards that his IP has been traced to an individual on another paranormal board claiming to be an alien.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]chugs, 2004-02-02 07:22 pm UTC
Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]mr_dark, 2004-02-02 10:02 pm UTC
Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]miryth, 2004-02-15 04:13 pm UTC
Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]jimbo_the_gecko, 2004-10-26 05:16 pm UTC
Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]durden_tyler, 2004-11-27 12:41 am UTC
Re: Titor was a meme to soften the masses for Time Travel movies - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-02 10:26 pm UTC

[info]chugs
2004-02-02 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Excluding Dr Who & Quantum Leap (not very relevant anyway to this debate) most of the other time travel movies/TV series out there play out the standard concept of time travel ie Back to the Future style.

The reasons why I've said what I’ve said is that the uncanny similarities between that and Crichton recent movie “Timeline” (In Australia it opens on Thursday), are exactly that, uncanny and almost completely alike in principal. Hell even the story a team/person sent back to find something, the eventual exposure of the world/time line concept, that if they return its not even their timeline that their returning, just one wherein that verision of them never returned.

Despite the contradictions found in the above article of Titor's story it still doesn't detract from the degree of accuarcy, effort, time, intelligence, imagination, patience and ultimately the perseverance behind such a complex hoax, not to mention the money needed for such a project (props, time). Apart from a SF writer, quite a plausible possibility, all you’ve managed to come up with is that this is the work of some bored "net junkie" (what exactly that is one must wonder). This was an organised and well planned/thought out hoax. Despite the obvious enjoyment of seeing something like this spread across the entire planet I believe (again something quite plausible), that the author(s) purposely chooses the net as a vehicle to convey the highly complex concept of a multi-dimensional universe where every state/possibility occurs & exists to match a product being sold relating to the concept of time-travel.

Again do some research, read the William Gibson book i mentioned, and you'll find that marketing companies are not ignorant of using these methods, meme's, indirect marketing, association etc etc.

Sorry for the rant but I believe you’ve too easily dismissed the possibility of Titor being a marketing ploy. I mean apart the extremely intangible benefit of doing one of the most successive hoaxes on the internet there must be a much more tangible reward for the author(s), ie money. Apart from a research scicentist trying to drum up interest in time travel (very inplausible), the sale of a move/book makes far more sense.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re:
[info]mr_dark
2004-02-02 10:13 pm UTC (link)
Of course, the fact that the novel Timeline has been out since 1999 also makes it likely the guy just read the book a couple of times and filled the gaps in his own weak theories using it.

I'm just saying that if this was a promotional campaign, it was an abject failure. The only people familiar with Titor's story are those of us who are already familiar and interested with time travel theory. This isn't like the 'Cloudmakers' stealth promotion for AI or even the Rustin Parr stuff surrounding Blair Witch, where once the product they were pitching was achieved they outed the promotion and, in the case of Cloudmakers, ended it.

I guess my main point here is that I don't understand this monumental amount of knowledge or effort that would be needed for him to perpetrate this hoax. WHat we're seeing is a compressed, journalized version of how it played out: on more than one message board, with sizeable gaps between questions and replies. Plenty of time to do research, hone the story, figure out which questions to dodge or ignore. And, honestly, my original point was: he didn't do a particularly believable job. The only folks who buy it are those who are anxious for something like this to confirm the paranoid fantasies already lodged inside their heads. Anyone who read this and ignored the distraction of the physics could see that the guy was a hoaxer.

In fact, based on your continuing praise for him, maybe YOU are Titor. ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: - [info]chugs, 2004-02-03 08:09 pm UTC
A bit of Comments...
[info]nuggethead
2004-02-03 04:14 am UTC (link)
Actually some of the argumentative facts you claimed were made by the "original" John Titor was not correct. Some of his comments were copycats. Well, you better go and double check which one is his comments and which one aren't.

The war started in around 2015 and he is from 2036. That is 15 years of difference. If you seen the 1940-1945 war and to say in 1955-1960 that Russia is one of the world superpower, you will be not believing also. Why not check and other monetary tools remain intact? As long as there are someone to backup the value of money, the paper, and every monetary system would still work. If war did broke up, a large part of our society world fragment to pieces. At each of this pieces there would local community to back up the local currency and defence. It is still possible that many "bankers" survive to keep the "monetary" concept going. In fact what we have today, modern monetary system was invented only about 100 years. It is a valuable tools, and if people like it due to its ease of transaction, people will keep it.

Although I acknowledge this John Titor story is a hoax but the way you go disproving base on current historical facts is rather inappropriate.

"paycheck" maybe a figurative term saying salary. As for communist economy, I think it wasn't what he has in mind when he talks about his year of economics. What probably his intention is that you need to contribute your worth then just ripping off the reward of someone else.

The reason he needs to go back retrace his original traveling path is because that is the only empirical method to minimize deviation from his orignal home world. He needs to go back to the point of worldline forking to be able to get back to his original worldline close enough. And yes it is about 6 worldlines because even he managed to touch back the original forking path point, he will cause another forking to occur. But his real intention is, get back to his own worldline as close as posible. Only in minimizing the deviation small enough, would he be sure that the worldline he returns to would be the one where "him" did leave. I think, what matters here is the math, not the real stuff. It is like genetic research. The fact is today, every development is trial and error. As long as they did it with huge numbers, they would be success. eg. dolly was conceived after hundreds of failed attempts. Well in John's case, he trust the math that as long as he can minimize the deviation, and infinite universe, he would get back "home" close enough. Fine with me.

One thing for sure...if he did return home, he himself had claim it would not be his original 100% home world just damn close that it is very difficult to differentiate. I think his story has more logicness than the so call Matrix Trilogies. I doubt John has many resources to help him shift through his hoax script before posting it. Give credit to him. At least, people copyrighted his materials. I say John make quite a convincing story. I say, this one is the best one ever on the net. At least, he manage to make few "predicitions" that almost came true. Even he managed to give an excuse if not, -> posible due to deviation. In fact, this hoax also got time limit, year 2004-2005. Now that is truly a work of pro!

PS: I think you miss his another remarkable comment. "it (Ginger)". The segway was original term as ginger. Not many people understand that remark though. And yes, in year 2001 it was huge publicity. Now 2004, I say, it is just another fad.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]demetriuslittl
2008-08-11 10:16 pm UTC (link)
Bankruptcy), there's not enough real money to back up the debt, and the bank itself goes bankrupt. (People don't like this because they probably don't realize that putting your money in the bank is an investment in loans to other people -- like in It's a Wonderful Life , but a bankrupt bank means you lost your investment.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

After having read JT's posts
[info]exiledbear
2004-02-10 02:28 am UTC (link)
Time and time again, he said that he didn't want to be believed, and that if you thought he was a fraud, that was OK. So, don't believe him.

He did make some specific predictions about 2004 and 2005, which should put this whole thing to rest in a few months anyway.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: After having read JT's posts
[info]mr_dark
2004-02-10 09:06 am UTC (link)
That's kind of the lynchpin to the whole story. It allows him to shoot down any criticism. Someone catches him in a mistake, and his response is 'oh well, I don't want to be believed anyway, why is it so important for you to prove me wrong?'

Even the upcoming predictions don't 'prove' him wrong, because he claimed that, effectively, absolutely anything can happen in any timeline. So all his faithful will do is claim 'it must not happen at this time in this timeline, that doesn't mean everything else isn't true'.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: After having read JT's posts - [info]exiledbear, 2004-02-11 07:48 am UTC
Re: After having read JT's posts - [info]chugs, 2004-02-11 07:54 pm UTC
The big problem, the whole picture
[info]boycey
2004-02-17 07:37 am UTC (link)
Hey Mr Dark,

Nice work, I too only saw this recently and was going to scribble a lot of stuff just to knock this thing into the middle of last century! But hey, thanks for doing this a year before I did!!

When looking at the big picture of the whole worldline theory, one can see that there is a basic mathematical, ummm.....problem!

Universally speaking, infinite possibilities by an infinate space area (see where I'm going?)

infinity X infinity = (bring it on Einstein!)

Plus this John guy also said:

"I have had numerous extended conversations online and there are quite a few things I've said which can easily be checked out but haven't. I get no pleasure out of being right when it comes to CJD disease, war in the Middle East or suffering people in far away lands. >>>>>>>>There's nothing like the look on someone's face when you tell them 100,000 people will be dead tomorrow<<<<<<<<. In my travels, I have discovered that most people really don't want to know about the future because if its different than what they want it ticks them off. Actually, I don't blame them."

The poorly highlighted section is completely out of character for the whole duration of his discussions 'online'. It goes against all his so called ethics and he has made no mention of this action before **UNLESS** he has tried to save humanity before - the WW2 thing with the radar (atom bomb)- to which he did make a mention of, but as you can plainly see it's a very indepth and well thought out situation and anyone can see something in such a mix of separated statements.

Fair play to the guy for making us think about it, but I remain an open minded skepic as always.

Cheers!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: The big problem, the whole picture
[info]dreamguy
2004-02-22 09:45 pm UTC (link)
Your problem isn't a problem, necessarily. Infinity is not a number, it's a concept. "Infinity X infinity" is just another way of saying infinity. It's not like you are saying there's a limit of 50 and 50 x 50 means you go over the limit, like would happen with a real number. Your claiming that it's a problem would be like claiming that something infinitely wide is no longer infinitely wide if we now learn it's infinitely long also. Infinity is still infinity regardless of how many ways it gets to be expressed. An infinitely wide box still has an infinitely sized area whether it's 2 feet long, 2,000 feet long or infinitely long, and that's before you even worry about it's height. Toss in an infinite assortment of timelines and you can have infinite number of infinite boxes expressing their limitlessness in various ways.

There are enough holes in the Titor claims without trying to disprove valid and fairly well known physics theories. I'm not saying those theories are right, because how would I know, and how would you go about testing it anyway, but that's what those theories say. I tend to not believe them personally, or at the very least consider them more the realm of philosophy than science, as the applicability of the theory to our lives is fairly nonexistent when you start talking about infinite timelines.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: The big problem, the whole picture - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 12:51 am UTC
The beat of a different drum.
[info]serratedx
2004-02-29 03:31 pm UTC (link)
So what ever rulled out the possibility of it being real? I see that you have found all these Plot holes, but why put all your trust in something that you were taught in school? Your idea of Communism is what you were told in school? Have you ever expericenced communism? I'm not saying lets believe this JT guy, but don't keep your minds shut. Think of the advances that we have made in computers from the 70's (5100 series) to today and how much faster and more power that we have put into them. Is there any real doubt that maybe by 2036, or whatever year, the government has made some kind of program for stuff like this? On thing I was surprised to learn was that no one bothered to ask about Space or Areonotical advancements. There was so much left open, but with what he did tell us, you just never know. One other thing that may tip off would be the idea of how he worded everything and how his senctence structure was. If it was a hoax, he did a damn good job at it. Of course it is all a matter of opinion on if it was a hoax. Obviously we will find out if his clames are true in a year or so.

(Reply to this)

agreed.
[info]darionscard
2004-09-12 12:09 am UTC (link)
...

(Reply to this)


[info]cinnamonroll
2004-09-29 02:56 pm UTC (link)
One more hoax you forgot to mention...If the money from his time can't work here in the past, why is it our money will work in the future??? Something I noticed nobody harped on

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]softpaw
2004-11-10 02:49 am UTC (link)
*replies to really old comment*

That parts simple..money from his time would have the year he is supposed to be from on it, as well as a different treasurer. Which would be taken for fake money or a counterfeit bill.

That reason is also why Doc in Back to the Future has a briefcase full of money from other times. The dates, even if the look of the bill is the same, the year and the treasurer is different.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

money money money - [info]mikepartyhard, 2005-01-07 10:11 am UTC
Re: money money money - [info]buck_million, 2005-01-08 12:46 pm UTC
Re: money money money - [info]darkstarr69, 2008-01-25 08:05 pm UTC
Re: money money money - [info]mr_dark, 2008-01-25 08:31 pm UTC
Re: money money money - [info]darkstarr69, 2008-01-25 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]buck_million, 2005-01-08 12:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-02 10:38 pm UTC
tackling john titor
[info]teyuna
2004-10-10 09:58 am UTC (link)
hi, interesting article.
I have no commitment to believing that John is a genuine time traveler.
However, I am confused as to why, in your critique of his economic sense, you do not acknowledge the possibility of a "mixed economy" existing. --I.e., an economy much like India or China have today, to name just two examples of mixed economies. Each has taken its own unique path, but in any case the elements of urban capitalism co-exist with more primitive elements, including barter, and including social structures which in the U.S.,today, do not exist side by side to any noticeable degree (they exist within isolated ethnic communities). My point is: barter, credit cards, currency, taxes, corporations, and communal structures are not necessarily mutually exclusive. This assumption of one economic form absolutely contradicting another seems to be the implicit assumption behind your critique of the apparent economic "contradictions" in John's descriptions of the US economy in the 2030's.
Under the assumption of a mixed economy, not only would the contribution of oranges to the economy in exchange for basic necessities be compatible with credit as a basis for purchasing some luxuries and a paycheck for any surplus contributed by John and his family, GE also could have continued as an "entity." Perhaps he clearly described the legal structure of GE as identical to what it is today (i have not read John's posts); but theoretically, GE could have continued in a restructured form that would be more compatible with the social changes he described. the future GE could, for all we know, be publicly owned, could be worker owned, could be consumer owned, it could be state owned. I'm not sure why we would assume that to say that GE "still exists" is the same as saying, "it is unchanged, and therefore it could not possiblY be compatible with the society that J. T describes.
as i mentioned, i am not making these comments in order to prove that John titor is a time traveler; i am only joining in the logical critique.
thanks for the opportunity to comment.

(Reply to this)


[info]drmudfish
2004-10-12 11:03 pm UTC (link)
Hoax or no, (likely yes) it remains a very interesting story. Also, it will be fun to see if his predictions of 2005 come true. It doesnt seem entirely too far off that America could have another civil war. It does seem far fetched that it would be this soon though.

(Reply to this)

Why debunk it?
[info]adoamy
2004-10-15 06:29 pm UTC (link)
One thing stands out in Johns story that worries me. I don’t remember there being much talk in late 2000 and early 2001 centering on the erosion of civil liberties. Although, there was a lot of conspiracy talk about the election. Today it is the top story in many circles and John’s civil war was framed in it. After reading John’s story I actually sat down and read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights with intense interest. I also read the Patriot Act and I reviewed the Presidents proposed marriage amendment. I took a look at what I could find on some of the money sources that drive Washington. Hoax or no hoax, I believe this story is compelling simply because of its delayed relevance. I think rather than trying to debunk it we should all be promoting it. The story paints, at the very least, an avoidable picture. The thing is that nobody will try to avoid it if they disregard it because we have debunked it.

(Reply to this)

John titor
[info]bikemech77
2004-11-02 02:39 pm UTC (link)
I have better bathroom reading material than this.... Mr. dark hits the nail on the head... if his money in the future is the same as ours now why couldnt he use it? how old was he? wasnt he afraid his future self would coexhist with his past self? where is this boys Parents?why havent anyone eles named titor been freaked out about this.I mean if it was my family member coming back in time to say this to me I would be rich from selling the rights to the media and I would have a tv movie made starring tony danza...Or mabe Arnold schwartzaneggar oh wait JAMES CAMERON did it I think it was called TERMINATOR! I think I would believe david blain or john edwards before I believe this crap.... but I give him credit for being creative.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: John titor
[info]pika_boo
2004-11-03 10:27 pm UTC (link)
Well, logically... we can use older money now - sometimes it's even MORE valuable than current - but try to explain to someone from 1950 why you're using rainbow colored 20's printed in a year that hasn't come yet.

He may have been afraid about meeting his "current" self, but as he said, he was 3 in 2001. what do you remember from when you were 3? plus, as the worldline theory goes, any changes made here will not be reflected where he returns to...

He wrote that he was with his parents and current self in Florida. A delicate bit of explanation, to be sure.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]covin
2004-11-04 06:59 pm UTC (link)
There are holes in this theory, just as there are holes in Titor's so-called prophecy.

You make many assumptions, as stated above, in your economic rebuttal of John's claims. The problem with economics is that it is not exact science; new forms of economic systems emerge and fall just like art and political movements do. For you to refute Titor's economy on the basis of what we know today is quite short-sighted and rather narrow-minded.

Money and communist economics are quite capable of mixing together. Essentials could be obtained through trade of services and goods, while currency would be used to purchase luxuries. It makes perfect sense to me.

Furthermore, paper money could be used solely by virtue of its very existence; it doesn't matter whether or not a national financial institution would have been able to sustain its value through a war. That's just arguing the abstract. It may not hold economic value during that war, but it would still possess physical value afterward in that local banks could evaluate old bills to use for trade. After all, in a survivalist society it would be pragmatic to re-circulate money from decades ago. Printing new currency when it already exists would be a waste.

Sure, money would not be nearly as important as it is now. But it is already clear that we can have economic systems without any currency, so why is it impossible for an economy to have only a limited monetary system?

Luxury is not necessary to a survivalist society, so why would it be included in the survivalist portions of the economy? Just create a monetary system that manages it and other non-necessary services. Leave the communist trade to everything people need, because goods and services would not be to be stolen without the thief threatening his very existence. Sounds like a fairly decent, viable economic system to me.

Of course Titor is a fake. But his economy is not impossible.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mr_dark
2004-11-04 07:32 pm UTC (link)
There's still a problem with the understanding of economic history: why is money worth what it's worth? In the beginning, it was just an issue of wealthy people leaving their gold with a merchant who wrote them a note saying 'I vouch for the fact that so-and-so left me this much gold and will pay any debts written against it'. Over time and a lot of changes, people just stopped ever trading in the paper for gold and traded the paper amongst themselves. Thus, the infant beginning of the 'gold standard'.

While the gold standard is history, the basic concept is the same: money is only worth what it is based on what it could potentially be traded for. In this case, it's backed up by the economy of the nation (or nations, in the case of the Euro) that printed it.

If the nation is no more, why would the money be worth anything? True, they could just say 'okay, we're a new nation, but we'll use the old bucks so we don't have to print a lot' but then you have a problem with controlling how much is out there. Money is only worth what it is because governments also control the AMOUNT of money that is in circulation, give or take a certain amount.

In the Titor situation, if the 'new' government decided to do what I just said based on what they theorized was the surviving cash in circulation, the whole system could be thrown if someone dug up a bank in the remains of a city and walked out with a few million in bills. By inserting a huge new amount of untrackable cash, the whole economy would be ruined.

There's a reason why there are serial #s on every bill...any system using old currency would have no way to track it, even IF they decided to use old instead of making new, despite the fact that the old is patently worthless as it has no government to back it. (For reference, see Confederate money. No government, so it's worthless.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

??? - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-23 06:43 pm UTC
Re: ??? - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-23 06:55 pm UTC
Re: ??? - [info]captainalphabet, 2005-08-05 05:41 pm UTC
Re: ??? - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-23 06:55 pm UTC
Re: ??? - [info]sensamecca, 2005-08-10 04:11 am UTC
Re: ??? - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-02 10:54 pm UTC
Re: ??? - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-03 03:54 am UTC
Re: ??? - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-03 06:39 am UTC
Re: ??? - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-04 11:32 pm UTC

[info]ex_onmute847
2004-12-02 06:09 pm UTC (link)
It's been said in many comments before, but your theory, as well as Titor's, has holes in it. There may seem to have been no way to prove that what he's foreseen could be true so far, but 2005 is approaching, and I think we are just as easily approaching the civil war that he mentioned.
This doesn't mean I believe what either of you have said, but I do believe that it is very possible that similar things to what John Titor has said may happen. He was a wise man and his cynicism on the current and the past state of the country was not wrong. If only more people a few years back were able to think more like him we may be a better place today.

(Reply to this)

The Spearweasel Connection
[info]spearweasel
2005-01-19 09:43 pm UTC (link)
http://www.spearweasel.com/rpg/twheel/darkfutr.htm

Enjoy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: The Spearweasel Connection
[info]mr_dark
2005-01-19 10:20 pm UTC (link)
That's beautiful, man.

Where have you been? Could have saved me a lot of breath. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Didnt do a good job
[info]damage171
2005-02-06 09:02 pm UTC (link)
Okay... I dont exactly believe in this story of John Titor but you did a bad job of disproving him. You say that there will be no cash wealth if the government is destroyed. Okay... but he never said there was no government. He said there was a government with 5 presidents so there is a government. Also just because a company's main office is destroyed does not mean the entire company's well being completely collapeses. That just doesn't make sense. Besides that if u hear a bomb is combing to where you are then uhh... I think u would move too. Hey hit me back up if u have any discrepincies.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Didnt do a good job
[info]rocspade
2005-05-10 07:32 pm UTC (link)
yes that was a very bad attempt at disproving him.

There are certain things that he noted when he posted that seemed like it maybe he is from the future.

What hit me the hardest were 2 things that seems to be playing out today very well to what he has posted.

1. The misuse of "security" means to intrude on peoples lives. ie, the Patriot Act. While I am in agreement with the patriot act maybe he thinks that it did go to far after another event happened.

2. His descrption of the Chinese and their relationship with Taiwan and how it really got out of hand in 2005. Notice recent news pointed to a Taiwan conflict with China if it declared itsself free.

There are other things that kinda shocked me but one thing is for sure. Expect something critical this year if his "predictions" are true. 2005 is the turning point is it not?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Didnt do a good job - [info]mr_dark, 2005-05-10 07:38 pm UTC
forgot
[info]damage171
2005-02-06 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Oh yeah... I forgot to say that you jumped to the conclusion that it is a communist country without ever know it is one. With the voting in of 5 presidents that doesnt sound like communism to me. Just thought u should know.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: forgot
[info]mr_dark
2005-02-06 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Communism is an economic structure, not a political one. The fact that you have this very basic lack of understanding shows that your economic knowledge needs some work, based on this and your other reply. Come back after you've brushed up on both Titor's story and economics, as you have misunderstandings involving both.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Why Sling this?
[info]240sxrivra
2005-03-02 04:09 am UTC (link)
Ok people, it is march 2005 now and I dont see the harm in kinda preparing for waco type events happining soon. I'm no expert in this stuff that John said but i think it is the logical thing to somewhat prepare for the worst that could happen. But what i dont get is why would he want to use forums to post his stuff when he is kinda on a mission to get the item he is looking for???

If he explained that plz tell me because i didnt read all of it, just the civil war part bc one, June 21st im leaving for the Air Force where i will be in Operations Intelligence, and two, I do think it is possible for a war to happen between superpowers in the near future, Look at what China is doing now a days, they are becoming an extremely Strong superpower, they are taking the jobs away from the US economy, like my moms job which closed down half of the plant and moved to China because they will make more money. Another possibility i think could happen is a war with North Korea and NATO, which in turn triggers China to join after NATO forces almost control the entire region up to the Chineese border.

But just think, about these supposed "world lines" I thought of something EXACTILY like this when i was in 7th grade. I thought there could be a universe that is somewhat like the Star Wars universe and stuff like that, and that there are infinate universes that different things that are similar to what was happining in my "world Line" was happinin there but different. If your thinkin that for me thinking that when i was in 7th grade, i was weird, i wont deny it. I have an extremely imaginitave mind and i always trail off, like i am now haha.

But if i did get to see this guy i would for sure ask him if there is any kind of Walker technology, A.K.A. Wanzers I.E. Front Mission 4 or the more popular word, MECHS!!! Which that would be badass, cause if i was a Wanzer/Mech pilot that would be the coolest thing. haha.

But anyways.. Back to the subject at hand. Just think of the possibilities that could happen and just free your mind!!! and PREPARE!! The early bird gets the worm!! Who knows, maybe i could be that Farmer-General he is talking about. I already am the Farmer. And i am going into the Air Force as my career. Well I must be going, if anyone would like to continue this chat with me just contact me on AIM rivra240sx or email me at kane392@yahoo.com

Later Folks

(Reply to this)

well...
[info]neuton
2005-03-09 03:47 am UTC (link)
Whether or not it was real or fake - the message was still pretty profound, and I find more and more things happening around the world that kinda edge us toward what he was talking about. I see more and more people disliking America a lot. Besides that, there's plenty of evidence around the internet to say that our media blows and isn't telling us what it's supposed to. That's more reason for people to dislike America. Eventually people will start protesting it. People will definitely start protesting Iraq, just like Vietnam. Things are becoming more and more like Vietnam. Remember how the government lied to the public about the progress of Vietnam? Well, it's a lot harder nowadays because we have such a huge source of information that is the internet. There's a thing called "World Tribunal of Iraq" or something like that that's saying the US media is lying to us... People will notice soon. And it is curious that it was right when this fellow said...
Bad things are happening soon, whether it's this hoax or not.

hehe, and please let me apologize, I have such a scatter brain for things like this...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: well...
[info]mr_dark
2005-03-09 04:03 am UTC (link)
Titor's claim was that civil unrest would arise around a contested U.S. election...no reference to a protest surrounding a war overseas. I'm not even getting into the argument that the protests over Iraq are dying down, not rising. Titor's claims never mentioned general animus against the U.S., either...he pretty much stuck to the internal problems. Which, I have to say, are pretty damn near non-existent.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-03-14 06:02 pm UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:40 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 01:44 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:50 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:11 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]bosoxfan003400, 2005-07-28 08:09 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]mr_dark, 2005-07-28 09:22 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]bosoxfan003400, 2005-07-29 04:31 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]mr_dark, 2005-07-29 06:01 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]bosoxfan003400, 2005-07-29 07:54 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]mr_dark, 2005-07-29 08:01 am UTC
Re: the wheels of the internet are-a-movin' - [info]sensamecca, 2005-08-10 04:15 am UTC

[info]impetuous_wife
2005-03-14 06:19 pm UTC (link)
one more thing!
If some middle aged dude showed up to your parents house, claming to be the older version of the infant, you, do you really think your parents would welcome him? Or would they think he was some wacko who had been stalking them and/or going through their mail to find out their private information. I know for a fact that my parents would freak out, (remember the movie, "Big")? Albeit a cheesy movie, it provides a normal reaction to some old man claiming to be the son. Granted they wouldn't be missing the original infant, but still... I just can't see people embracing this weirdo into their lives, almost immediately! I mean he said he was living with them, so they'd have to have just said, "okay, live with us, show us how to grow crops".
I suppose the fact that he says he visited his grandfather in 1975 could explain this as that guy who most likely hadn't even given birth to the his parents...
WAIT! If he visits his grandfather in 1975, than were his parents already born? He doesn't mention the grandmother, so maybe its safe to assume that grandparents hadn't even met yet... if this is so, than whats the liklihood of his grandfather believing him as well.
Clearly Titor comes from a family of imbeciles; why send him to complete an important mission that will save a huge dillema? He's an uneducated dolt from a family who of dumbasses! His parents had him right out of highschool in 1998! The gerneralization of kids having kids in 1998 is pretty sad, as they'd be most likely pot-head losers. I know I'm being pretty dumb on this post but its just because it doesn't make sense, so why should I? <-(my own titorism.)
Plus, lets not forget to mention that there is no civil war and we're very much in 2005. I don't feel an impending civil war. Also, I'm in Seattle; one of the urban areas, and I highly doubt the rural areas surrounding us are going to overpower us with their sparse populations and knowlege of grazing cattle vs. our IT nerds and intelligistas.
(I do not claim to be an intelligista-as clearly I'm debating the logic of one "John Titor")

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall
[info]arielflight
2005-03-16 11:23 pm UTC (link)
Before WWII many people did not believe the propaganda put out by the nazi's and got out of Germany asap. When a country's civil liberties are being erroded and propaganda by the CURRENT administration
is being fed to us as "NEWS"(THE MEDIA) based on fear and hate of others, WATCH OUT!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-03-16 11:32 pm UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:14 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 01:20 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:26 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:31 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 01:34 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:42 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 01:46 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:52 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 01:55 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:15 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:17 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:14 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 02:18 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:20 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 02:26 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:48 am UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-15 03:34 pm UTC
Re: Maybe this guy, Titor sees the writing on the wall - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-06-16 01:59 am UTC
a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-07 05:30 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-08 11:15 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]mr_dark, 2005-05-09 12:09 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 06:12 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]mr_dark, 2005-05-09 06:57 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 03:56 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 03:58 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:00 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:29 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:33 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:42 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]mr_dark, 2005-05-09 07:43 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 08:22 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 06:10 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 03:54 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:08 pm UTC
ad baculum - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:12 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:13 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:20 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:17 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:23 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:15 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-09 04:20 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:25 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]austintatiously, 2005-05-09 04:38 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]rocspade, 2005-05-10 07:42 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]impetuous_wife, 2005-05-10 07:43 pm UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:23 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:30 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:33 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:35 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]mr_dark, 2005-06-15 01:46 am UTC
Re: a few counters - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 02:31 am UTC

[info]spiralpegasus
2005-03-17 04:28 am UTC (link)
Just a heads up, but this is hit #1 when goggling 'john titor hoax'.

And if I had my own time machine, I'd go back to early 2001 and ask John, "How badly does New York get hit? What's left of the Empire State Building and the World Trade Center?"

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mr_dark
2005-03-17 10:11 am UTC (link)
Out of all the stuff I've written, THIS is what everyone wants to read. Go figure. :) Thanks for the heads up, I wondered why I keep getting comments on this thing after all this time.

Also, I ::heart:: that icon. Arte Johnson is the best.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Hmm. - [info]sensamecca, 2005-06-15 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-02 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-03 03:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ronintetsuro, 2005-11-03 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mr_dark, 2005-11-04 11:24 pm UTC
Impossible? Quantum Physics Anyone? Anything is possible. - [info]marshallbot, 2006-07-13 05:55 pm UTC
Re: Impossible? Quantum Physics Anyone? Anything is possible. - [info]mr_dark, 2006-07-13 07:01 pm UTC

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