Tim Covington ([info]dracphelan) wrote in [info]guns,
@ 2008-05-23 16:23:00
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Current mood: annoyed

This Sucks
 Student Protests Ban On Empty Holsters

Tarrant County College administrators are standing by their decision to ban empty holsters used by students to protest campus gun bans. One student at TCC's South Campus says he was told he could speak out but he could not wear an empty holster to symbolize students being disarmed. Such symbolic protests have been allowed at other colleges, including UT-Arlington. But an administrator at South Campus says he banned the holsters because of high-profile campus shootings in Virginia and Illinois. The empty holsters bother Juan Garcia because of his belief that, from a distance, you can't tell whether the holster is empty, or not.


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[info]3fgburner
2008-05-23 09:29 pm UTC (link)
Juan Garcia is an absolute, total, and utter idiot.

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[info]dnalia
2008-05-23 10:21 pm UTC (link)
Yep, that was pretty much my reaction, too.

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[info]montieth
2008-05-23 09:46 pm UTC (link)
T-shirts with an empty holster on it then.

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[info]skreidle
2008-05-23 09:53 pm UTC (link)
I'm pretty sure the law's not on the administration's side, there. I'll be curious to see what happens with it.

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[info]azreel
2008-05-23 09:58 pm UTC (link)
I live about 5 miles from that campus, and I'm pretty sure you're right.

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[info]azreel
2008-05-23 09:58 pm UTC (link)
o_0

This is appalling, but what REALLY blows me away is that this happened in Fort Worth Texas where there are probably 10 guns to every resident.

And being a Fort Worth resident myself, I just can't fathom how the school administration thought that this would go over well. On the plus side, I'm fairly certain the local news will be all over this one (on the side of the students) in fairly short order.

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[info]mfree
2008-05-23 10:14 pm UTC (link)
A rifle scabbard is not a holster.

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[info]argonel
2008-05-23 10:36 pm UTC (link)
O, so empty holsters are forbidden, and guns are forbidden. What about holsters with harmless objects in them? For example a gun holster with a cell phone in it.

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[info]n5red
2008-05-23 11:12 pm UTC (link)
How about a power drill holster? With or without the drill.

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[info]andrewlee
2008-05-23 11:52 pm UTC (link)
If you are being facetious then point well taken. If you're not joking, however, Students for Concealed Carry on Campus would frown upon it because it would give people even more reason to call the cops and report a shooter on campus.

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[info]world_wanderer
2008-05-24 12:44 pm UTC (link)
I was thinking for the next time I get a chance, putting a flower in there. People are idiots, and will probably call the cops regardless of what's in it, even if it's air.

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[info]lildobe
2008-05-23 11:35 pm UTC (link)
IIRC, there is SCOTUS case law that says the administrators can't do that, as it violates the 1st amendment...

Then again, they are already violating the 2nd, so what's one more, hmm?

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[info]werz_waldeau
2008-05-24 01:26 am UTC (link)
~sigh~ Nearly 20 years ago, the US Supreme Court (even Anton Scalia) told the State of Texas that they cannot ban flag burning because it's clearly content-based political expression, subject to strict scrutiny under the First Amendment. How could carrying empty holsters be any different?

Hopefully, some students will have the courage to disobey and test this ban. It looks like the State of Texas needs another First Amendment lesson.

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[info]twizmer
2008-05-24 04:02 am UTC (link)
If the presence of an empty holster would actually cause panic and alarm and general badness (which is a tenous claim, perhaps, but one that can be made) then it might fall under the "fire in a crowded theater" principle.
Beyond that, the court has given colleges some surprising discretion in restricting speech that goes beyond what would be available to the government in general.

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[info]werz_waldeau
2008-05-24 04:51 pm UTC (link)
Two points:
  • This appears to be a state-supported school, so the First Amendment clearly applies.

  • I doubt they can find a 'compelling state interest' in banning empty holsters that rises above anything argued in Johnson. Would an empty holster cause more 'panic and alarm' than setting a flag afire in public place? I doubt it.

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[info]kylecassidy
2008-05-24 02:10 am UTC (link)
Somebody got through college and, presumably, got a Ph.D. and then into a position of authority and never had to read Tinker v. Des Moines???!


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[info]twizmer
2008-05-24 03:59 am UTC (link)
Morse v. Frederick.
And a ruling over in California (probably district court, I don't remember) allowing a school to order a student to take off an "offensive" t-shirt via some bizzare logic about balancing his free speech rights against the purported right of the other students to be comfortable at school. Tinker is being weakened.

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[info]werz_waldeau
2008-05-24 05:12 pm UTC (link)
There's a significant difference between wearing an empty holster to community college classes in favor of Second Amendment rights and displaying a BONG HiTS 4 JESUS banner at a high-school-supervised Olympic torch parade.

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[info]chairtomorrow
2008-05-24 05:12 am UTC (link)
The empty holsters bother Juan Garcia because of his belief that, from a distance, you can't tell whether the holster is empty, or not.

That's odd...from a distance, it is my belief that I can't tell whether the Waingros roving our nation are 'empty or not'. This makes me uncomfortable and in turn bothers me, hence my desire to carry a personal weapon.

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