Will ([info]ninjalawyer) wrote in [info]guns,
@ 2003-07-23 17:52:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:eager

Anyone in MA interested in building an FN FAL with me?
I've been playing around with the idea of building a rifle for some time now, mostly just for the fun of doing it and the learning experience. After doing some research, it looks like the FN FAL is a good rifle to start with.

My plan is to buy the components over the next year or so in installments and build the rifle when I have the free time, ideally after the Assault Weapons Ban has expired so that I can put a flash suppressor on it. I expect the project to cost somewhere between $500 and $1000, depending on the configuration I choose and whether I send it to a professional for the tricky parts or try doing them myself.

The key parts needed are the receiver, which is the only part you need a license to get, which are going for about $285 here in MA, a parts kit, which is only $155 at the moment, less than than $100 worth of tools and supplies, which we can share the cost of, and possibly a few bucks more in US made parts (if those aren't included in the $155), and maybe a few bucks for a locking shoulder, which has to be bought in a specific size. The particular configuration I have in mind for mine, a replica of the T48 tested by the Army, would also include about $150 to $250 in additional parts. A professional headspacing job (the hard part) costs about $50, full assembly would be $175 or $275 with refinishing, too. I've also heard good things about the DSA hammer, sear, trigger kit, which goes for $90.

What do you say, guys? I think I'm going to start off by ordering the parts kit with my next paycheck. It should be a lot of fun and a good learning experience, plus its an easy way to buy a top-quality rifle piece by piece... and if we get in over our heads, buying our way out isn't too bad. Let me know if you might be interested, since this will be cheaper and easier if there are more of us doing it together.




(Post a new comment)


[info]egosumquisum
2003-07-23 04:29 pm UTC (link)
I've built three FALs and helped in the construction of several more thusfar. Firstly, I would recommend that you get yourself up to speed on tips and techniques by reading the Gunsmithing forum on the FALFiles (http://www.falfiles.com/forums). This site is the hands down best source of FAL information on the net.

While the Imbel Gear Logo receiver is a good choice for a receiver, I would consider a US made receiver like the Dan Coonan type I receiver sold by Federal Arms (http://www.gunsnstuff.net, part no. FAFAL1). Not only is it only $199+ship/transfer, it counts as a US part for 922r compliance. Mark Graham himself of Arizona Response Systems gives is a good review:

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/falfac/pagefalfac.htm

By the way, FAC sells the Imbel gear logo receiver for $199...much cheaper than the dealer you mentioned in your post.

As for parts kits...get one while you can. Recent importation and BATF demilitarization standards have caused the FAL kit market to begin to dry up rapidly, driving the price of kits through the roof. Get one soon if you can. Imbel, R1 and STG-58 kits are good choices, but may be expensive. G1 kits can be good quality, but most of the ones still available might not be.

As for US parts, have a look at the First Son Enterprises (FSE) hammer trigger and sear set. They usually run about $50 for a set and get very good reviews on FALFiles. The DSA is a decent parts set but its overpriced at $90 and is not marked in a way that designates its US made.

As for headspacing/barreling, it really isnt all that hard. All you need is a receiver wrench, a vise, a breaker bar, a set of heaspace gauges and a set of locking shoulder gauge rods. Most of these items can be borrowed. If you dont plan on doing any more builds, it might be worth it to send it off to have a smith do it. While Mark Graham is one of the best FAL smiths in the country, he is notoriously difficult to deal with. Frankly, he's an arrogant bastard and after having a rifle built by him I wont be using any more of his services. My rifle was great, but my customer experience was atrocious. He was rude, condescending and uncommunicative through the entire VERY long process. There are other FAL smiths who can do anything Mark can do faster, cheaper and with a lot better customer service.

The hardest part of the build is refinishing. I'd suggest building it yourself and then sending it off for refinishing. Read through the Marketplace and Reviews forums on FALfiles and you can find quite a few smiths who specialize in refinishing and can generally do it quite affordably. Look for a user going by "BIG DUKE 60". His dark black parkerizing refinish jobs are extremely good and only run about $80 including return shipping.

Hope this helps

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ninjalawyer
2003-07-23 05:03 pm UTC (link)
Thanks, that helps a lot... I'll definitely look into all of those options!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]longslide
2003-07-23 05:22 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like a really cool project!! I'm not in MA, I'm in CA, myself, but that seems like a really neat thing to put together. Good luck!!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ninjalawyer
2003-07-24 05:08 am UTC (link)
Thanks! I'll be posting and keeping people up to date on it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mbj
2003-07-23 09:05 pm UTC (link)
That would be awesome, I wish I had the cash to do that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ninjalawyer
2003-07-24 05:06 am UTC (link)
That's the cool thing about the project-- it's buying the rifle bit by bit in manageable pieces over the next year or so :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]mbj
2003-07-24 10:10 am UTC (link)
Also I would know where to begin or end I know nothing about building them

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]firstashore
2003-07-24 12:42 am UTC (link)
So the Assault Weapons Ban includes flash suppressors? Wow. What on earth for? Is this part of the argument that an 'assault rifle' is defined by how it looks more than by how it shoots?

I think you should definitely put a flash suppressor on, anyway. I much prefer the British/Australian L1A1's flash suppressor rather than the original FAL one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bulldawg
2003-07-24 05:02 am UTC (link)
Here in the U.S., a "Semiautomatic Assault Weapon" ("SAW" - an oxymoron in and of itself), according to the ban which went into effect on 13 Sept 94, is defined as one that has a detachable magazine and at least two of the following features:

- "A pistol grip which protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon"
- Flash Suppressor
- Grenade Launcher
- Bayonet Mount/Lug, and
- Folding/Collapsing Stock

The biggest proponents of the ban rambled on and on about how you could take out entire city blocks with one fell swoop of an AK-47, and the only thing they accomplished that remotely made any sense in an attempt to change this "problem" was enact a ban on "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices", nevermind the fact that 99.9% of the owners of "Evil Black Rifles" use full-capacity pre-ban military surplus magazines.

While the ban on SAWs themselves has imposed certain limitations on accessorizing, there's no true functional difference between a pre-ban AR-15 and a post-ban other than the fact that a post-ban does not have a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or collapsable stock. Each has identical actions, barrels, receivers, etc. Additionally, they made no prohibition on using full-capacity pre-ban magazines in a post-ban weapon, thus the current popularity of surplus magazines. In the end, all they accomplished with these bans was the jacking up of prices we pay for the pre-ban rifles and magazines, but there's certainly no shortage of either. I might add that there has been no decline whatsoever in crimes involving grenade launchers or bayonets.

You're dead-on in regards to the way the weapon looks. One of the authors of the legislation made no bones about pointing out pictures of weapons in a book and commenting on how nasty and dangerous the looked. I can only assume that they simply looked at these images and asked the experts "Whut's that?" before deciding that us lowly civilians weren't worthy of possessing an object with these features. The manner in which they defined these "evil" features is simply rediculous. I guess they realized that they couldn't ban the weapons altogether, so they just went for what they could.

Anyway, as it stands now, it's completely legal to own and possess a SAW that was manufactured prior to the ban, but anything meeting the definition manufactured after the ban is restricted to Law Enforcement/Military use or for export... At least until 2004 when the ban expires (assuming they don't enact another one).

Now, [info]ninjalawyer is discussing building an FN/FAL variant which would most likely involve the use of both U.S.-made and imported parts (namely, the parts kit), and there are even further restrictions and limitations when it comes to the imported parts content of so-called assault rifles. Therefore, he has two different sets of restrictions he'll have to pay attention to when building his rifle. This is a whole 'nuther bag of worms I don't even care to get in to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ninjalawyer
2003-07-24 05:03 am UTC (link)
Yeah, all of the features banned in the AWB were cosmetic. Flash hiders are illegal in post '94 rifles, but muzzle breaks are okay, but the have to be permanently attached rather than screwed on to a threaded barrel... Total BS. I actually have this flash hider in mind, assuming that the ban sunsets, since it goes along with the whole T48 theme. I'll buy that last in case the ban doesn't sunset... I'll pick out a legal muzzle break since it would be a felony to put the stupid thing on. I'll also be using a squared-off T48-style triggerguard from DSA, and a T48-style forend from TAPCO that should come out next month. If it's practical, I'll try to use one of the stripper-clip feeding receiver covers, too. This fifle is going to rock!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]firstashore
2003-07-24 05:39 am UTC (link)
Yes, that flash hider looks a lot like the one on the Commonwealth L1A1s... I see on that site you can actually buy entire conversion kits for the L1A1.

It's a rather fondly-remembered weapon here since it's the rifle we took into Vietnam. Since 1990ish we've been using the AUG. *points to his icon*

But yeah, sounds like a plan to me. :) Make sure you post us a pic when it's finally done.


(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]ninjalawyer
2003-07-24 06:01 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I read somewhere that you were able to choose between the M16 and the FAL, but pretty much no one took the M16.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]firstashore
2003-07-24 06:21 am UTC (link)
I believe the only ones who generally used the M16 were those who had a specific job in the section, such as forward scouts, gunner number 2s, or radio operators. Those for whom the SLR was a bit too big and bulky.

Apparently the SLR was very reliable in the mud and filth of Vietnam - I once spoke to a veteran who had been at the famous Battle of Long Tan and he said they were the only thing that kept working consistently throughout the battle.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Just Completed
[info]wolverine836
2004-08-01 02:35 pm UTC (link)
I just completed my FAL Build and yes in MA have most tools including Receiver wrench head space gages pin gauges and such send an EM if help is needed

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just Completed
[info]ninjalawyer
2004-08-01 10:03 pm UTC (link)
Actually I sent my parts out to Rich Saunders of CGW and received the completed rifle last month... thanks for the offer, though. Receivers and parts kits are both scarce for now, so I doubt that I'll be building another one anytime soon, but I am already thinking about it :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…