phyrbyrd
gorthok
phyrbyrd
blake_reitz
megspencer
blake_reitz
phyrbyrd
ladyofshallnot
trickygrin
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ladyofshallnot
saiyuri
Like how summer-y my avatar isn't? haahaa
blake_reitz
megspencer
gorthok
megspencer(Walton, Anderson, Monette, Griffith, Valente, Singer)
CV: An extended meal can tell a lot about a culture. Sex likewise is an easy in for exposition.
JW: When world creating, think about who touches whom – when do people touch? Hug?
JS: How easy is import/export in your culture? What sort of trade is there?
TNH: Start with fuel to determine what kind of cooking is possible.
Audience Comment: Think about what the socially accepted drugs are.
Audience Comment: Also what euphemisms are used, and which words people will not say.
SM: Read lots of sex scenes, figure out what happens a lot, and don't do that!
JW: Often sex in books defaults to Western norms or is lifted wholesale from another culture.
I found this panel interesting because it covered one topic I've messed around with a fair bit in my writing, and two things I pretty much ignore. I get the point about food and fashion, but if one isn't especially interested in the subjects, it feels kind of forced. In terms of world building I'm more interested in history, trade, wars, politics, family and sexuality than I am about food and fashion. After the panel on family I made a point to look at each of my characters and their family, and see if I'd allowed their upbringing to influence who they are. I concluded that I've done a fairly decent job of that part, and of not assuming that all characters have the same family, or no family at all.
Likewise, sexuality is something I've been interested in as a jumping off point for fiction. I just reread the two stories I mentioned in the previous post on fan fiction. They need work. Oh boy do they need work. It's actually work I might want to do, though. Seven years later I still find the idea of gender very interesting, and I still struggle with pronouns while writing alternate gender characters. In the case of those short stories, I think the character would ultimately think of himself as a “he,” having been raised male, but I knew I couldn't do that for the androgynous race in “Light in the Groves.” The rough draft used “zie/hir” and the current draft “it.” I'm still not sure about that one.
Related to this, I usually have at least one homosexual or bisexual character in my stories. Sometimes it feels kind of unimportant and unexamined, but that might be because I've usually run in circles in which there's usually a few people who are homosexual and it usually IS fairly unimportant. I mean, if I'm hanging out in a bar, I'm not hanging out with my gay friend, I'm hanging out with my friend who, among other things, is gay. A lot of times it just isn't all that important. That's not to say that sexuality isn't important in building characters, just that it doesn't need to be the defining characteristic all the time. There's a character in Light who's homosexual, but I'm not sure I'll ever actually say it because it just isn't pertinent to the immediate story. It affects how I write the character, but I don't see that it's necessary for the reader to know, and it might just be distracting if I dropped it in.
megspencer(Notkin, Bujold, Gwin, Brown, Brust)
This was a highly entertaining panel. Lois McMasterson Bujold started the panel off by sharing a Star Trek FanZine she'd helped create in the 1960s or 70s, then telling a story about how she went through a period recently where the only thing she was reading was Lord of the Rings fan fiction. The moderator (Notkin I think) said that the discussion was not about the ethical aspects of fan fiction, which did help direct the conversation, although I thought that other discussion would have been interesting as well.
Either Gwin or Brown was a really awesome addition to the panel, as she was a medievalist who had studied the evolution of the Arthurian legends and how derivative fiction worked before modern copyright. I think that the overwhelming agreement on the panel was that, in general, modern copyright laws are overly constricting and that fan fic has a much worse reputation than it really deserves. Someone suggested a system where one could sell licenses to intellectual property that I thought was a really interesting idea, unfortunately I didn't write it down to I've forgotten what the jist of it was.
DN: Fan Fic used to mean fiction about fans, or original fiction written by fans. Fiction is only of the only fields with a distinct line (publication for pay) where you count as a professional.
The idea of writing fiction ABOUT fans is just really odd. Actually it's the idea of a fandom where everyone (or a good chunk of people) actually know each other is what's really odd. I suppose that reflects the transition from conventions being the backbone of fandom to it being primarily internet based. I wish I'd taken better notes during this discussion, because I know there was some talk about the internet.
LMB: Fan fic can be used to critique the canon, answer the interesting questions.
Audience Comment: In contrast to fan fic being disrespected, professional artists are expected to copy the masters in order to learn.
LMB: Fan fic can be a way to learn the craft, but only to a certain point.
Story time! The very first things I ever wrote, aside from random stories for school, were X-Men fan fiction (I can't believe those are still online - they're not quite as bad as I'd have thought, but yeah, I didn't know how to edit worth a damn back then), which I wrote through junior high and the first couple of years of college. I created an original character that was absolutely an author stand-in (though not quite, I hope, a Mary-Sue) and took the universe off in a direction that I thought made more sense than the comics were doing. Two of my favorite stories ("He's Unsure about Himself" and "A Tiger is a Tiger") were almost entirely original characters in that setting. What amused me later on was that the direction I thought made sense (the school being a real school, with lots of students of different levels of ability rather than just the small X-Men Jr. teams the comics were doing at the time) was the direction the comics themselves ended up going in about a decade later. I laughed.
I definitely recognize the point that there is only so much one can learn writing fan fic unless you consciously push yourself to fill in those gaps. You're starting off with a real boost, with the universe, characters, themes, even tone already in place. I enjoyed the challenge of creating characters within the universe, and in my reading tended towards the stories that improved upon the canon, filling in plot holes and such things. My favorite fan fic of all time was probably a series of novels by Minisinoo who I stopped following when she switched the Harry Potter (and good god, she's doing Twilight now? God I honestly would want to give it a try). She started with the X-Men movie universe and completely re-worked it until it was much, much better than it had been starting off.
The end of the discussion sort of deteriorated into various people sharing the names of the most bizarre or hilarious crossover fictions they knew. It was very funny, though grumpy Megan would generally have liked more conversation.
megspencerAnother panel I liked a lot, almost entirely a “how to write well” lecture with very little audience participation. In this case, I was good with that.
(T. Nielsen Hayden, Monette, Bujold, Walton, Valente, Dean)
TNH: Difference between SFF and other genres is the expository burden of explaining the context in which the story exists. Historical fantasy has a similar burden.
JW: It's the glory, not the burden! As a reader, I have more tolerance for crappy SFF than that set in the modern world.
PP: Exposition is an infinitely flexible tool, which can be used for time, structure, and characterization.
SM: Good exposition is there only when the reader wants it. Bad exposition stops the story.
JW: It's okay just to straight up tell the reader things.
LMB: If it's not pertinent to the story at hand, leave it out.
TNH: A natural point for exposition is starting with where things have changed. Then people will naturally discuss both the past and the future.
ML: Good exposition is like a little kid who learned something new: I explain because I like you.
TNH: You don't want the reader to get into an argument with the writer because then the reader falls out of the story.
CV: Make it do double duty: don't just tell about the world, but also advance plot or character.
JW/LMJ: Why we have to write stories in order: because that way you don't screw up the exposition. You don't know what you're going to need in terms of explanations until you need it.
LMB: An exception being when there are multiple PoVs.
JW: The danger of a series is if you realize you need something earlier but you've already published that part of the story.
TNH: You have to sit down and figure out a lot about the world, then leave a lot of it out.
JW: Keep in mind that you have to be consistent with what your PoV knows.
JW: The Tiffany Problem: Tiffany is a 12th century French/British name, but it's so associated with the 20th century you can't use it in a historical/SFF story. When you know something that is correct but contradicts popular knowledge.
CV: The artistic life of the fantasy world is a fantastic way to explain about a world.
JW: All names are a great opportunity for exposition.
I really enjoy world-building (although some thing like language drive me bonkers), but figuring out how what to insert into a story and what to leave out is the real trick. As LMB said, you want to leave out everything that isn't pertinent to the story, but you still want to have a vivid world. CV's advice on making exposition serve double duty, especially to serve characterization, was the most useful for me.
I will also say that I could listen to Jo Walton read the phone book, because that woman has a fabulous voice and was generally deeply entertaining (and smart!).
blake_reitzTETRIS CF #1 from WooDUS on Vimeo.
megspencerI skipped the Children's & YA panel because I wrote up something at lunch on Saturday (which yes, I did eat alone, but as it was the only meal I ate alone I don't feel so bad). It's still on my AlphaSmart so I'll post it later.
(Meacham, Barnhill, Lingen, Notkin, Furr, Gordon)
Another panel that I really liked. This was more focused on what authors do wrong rather than what one can do right, and gave me a lot of ideas on ways to go with my writing and things to pay attention to. This panel also acknowledged the roots of fantasy literature in the fairy tale, which is a subject I find very interesting. I would have loved a panel tracing how mythology translated into fairy tale and then into fantasy. I think that might be more a college class, though.
BM: There has been a change in how fantasy addresses family. The fairy tale has the horrible family, more recently the focus has been on building one's own family.
DN: Fantasy has great potential to examine family structure.
ML: Is the “traditional family” a myth?
DN: The phrase “nuclear family” shows how recent that concept it.
ML: The default seems to be the blank slate regarding the family.
KB: Families are messy, so the blank slate is easier.
There was some interesting cultural stuff going on in this discussion. The panelists were making a real attempt to address the assumptions that are made in fiction, but were running into some of those assumptions that people make in life, such as assuming that one's own experience is the normal one, and not being clear enough what one means when they say “our culture” and that kind of thing. I know eventually one just has to try their best to be specific about what you're saying and hope that everyone listening knows that any assumptions are well intended.
Which leads into something else I was thinking about but wasn't mentioned in any of the panels, that being the Race Fail kerfuffle that blew up on various writers' blogs in January and February of this year over race in SFF. If I'm not mistaken the whole thing started on the LJ belonging to the writing partner of one of the Fourth Street panelists, and I think the part where it went from debate to flame war was when two of the fourth street panelists stepped in and tried to stick up for her.
The whole thing was a mess and probably a good example of how good intentions go bad on the internet, but it's also an interesting discussion. It did not come up, however. I mentioned this to someone on Sunday and they pointed out that pretty much everyone at the convention was white. Interestingly, about half the attendees were female, and the panelists were predominantly female. I'm not sure where I'm going with that, just thought it was interesting.
phyrbyrd — Well, fuck. — 3 comments
gorthok — (no subject)
phyrbyrd — Never could get the hang of Thursdays... — 3 comments
blake_reitz — This isn't advice. This is murder.
megspencer — What's Going On?
blake_reitz — Truth stranger than fiction, Yes. But never as strange as lies. That is all.
phyrbyrd — End of year exhibition! — 4 comments
ladyofshallnot — Sense a pattern?
trickygrin — Calling all writers? — 2 comments
ladyofshallnot — Moooooom
ladyofshallnot — Hrm — 17 comments
saiyuri — I am fake rich... On Gaia
blake_reitz — When you lose your mind is when you start to find your soul.
megspencer — Weird Ass Spam
gorthok — sweet is the pride that reflects in our eyes — 2 comments
megspencer — Food, Fashion & Fornication
megspencer — Fourth Street Day Two: What Is Fan Fic?
megspencer — Fourth Street Day Two: Embracing Exposition
blake_reitz — women, fire, and dangerous things — 1 comment
megspencer — Fourth Street Day Two: Fantasy &The Family ![]() | You are viewing the community Log in Create a LiveJournal Account Learn more | Explore LJ: Life Entertainment Music Culture News & Politics Technology |