Tina ([info]loudestsound) wrote in [info]gainesville,
@ 2003-09-05 16:47:00
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Current mood: amused

Protests
I know I may be stirring a hefty pot of something in bringing this up, but I'm curious -- did any of you participate in the abortion protests that were going on at the different clinics across town today?

I passed by the one at the Bread and Roses Clinic, and it was my first time seeing a demonstration in-person. Anyone else see these around town and become curious, as I did?

If you were protesting, what side were you on and why? If you have an animate opinion, which side are you on and why? No need for heat, just explanations will suffice. I'm just curious.




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[info]lilpinkflirt
2003-09-05 02:23 pm UTC (link)
My friend had an abortion last year and I ewnt to Bread and Roses with her, there were protestors. A lot of times they are actually asked to come by the neighboring business. All I know is this stupid misinformed woman was like

'GOD LOVES YOU DONT SIN AND KILL YOUR CHILD'
and I looked her dead in the eye and said
'God killed his son too'...

They didn't like that, specially since i'm Christian.

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[info]aigator
2003-09-05 02:50 pm UTC (link)
Actually, that's neither technically nor theologically correct. The Romans and the Jews killed Jesus, and if you're looking at it from a Christian standpoint, it was our sins that put Him there, not God. Remember that Jesus CHOSE to die. Big difference between killing a baby and choosing to die in someone else's place.

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[info]lilpinkflirt
2003-09-05 03:48 pm UTC (link)
Yes but it was as stupid to say as what SHE was saying, in my book.

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[info]aigator
2003-09-05 05:37 pm UTC (link)
How is it stupid to tell someone that God loves them and that they should not sin by committing murder? Perhaps if you had taken some time to talk to the lady you might have seen that she maybe genuinely cared about you and your friend and her situation. But you didn't do that. Instead you said something mean and spiteful.

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(no subject) - [info]lilpinkflirt, 2003-09-05 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_tay, 2003-09-05 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilpinkflirt, 2003-09-05 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_tay, 2003-09-06 08:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilpinkflirt, 2003-09-06 08:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-05 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilpinkflirt, 2003-09-06 07:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-06 01:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quinctia, 2003-09-07 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-07 01:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-07 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quinctia, 2003-09-07 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-08 12:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quinctia, 2003-09-08 02:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-08 01:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-08 03:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-10 01:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-10 02:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiney, 2003-09-05 06:00 pm UTC

[info]ziemkowski
2003-09-05 04:22 pm UTC (link)
It's very unlikely that Jews had anything to do with it and are negatively portrayed in the scriptures due to the political climate at the time more than actual events (after all, the references to Jews at the event don't pop up for a number of decades, and technically speaking, don't quite add up [the Romans after all are the ones who wanted Jesus dead, the Jews at most didn't want to draw the ire of the Romans by a fellow Jew calling for attention]).

-AZ-

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[info]leiabelle
2003-09-05 04:51 pm UTC (link)
That's interesting. Thanks for the info. :)

In any case, the point about the Crucifixion that should be important to Christians is that it's their sins, not a specific cultural group (not to say, "scapegoat group"), that put Jesus on the cross. A lot of them seem to miss that point, and thus feel justified in dissing Jewish people.

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[info]aigator
2003-09-05 05:35 pm UTC (link)
One word: Sandhedrin. Sure it was a kangaroo court that was illegally held at night, but the religious leaders still wanted him out of their hair. They colaborated with the Romans to accomplish what they both wanted.

However, that doesn't justify blaming Jews today for the death of Christ. It's like some blacks these days (think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) demanding reparations for something that ended 150 years ago. The two don't correlate and there's nobody alive today that was directly or indirectly involved with what happened.

Also, as a Christian I know that if Christ hadn't died, however unjust it was, I would still be deserving of the penalty for my sins because it is impossible to fulfill the Law.

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(no subject) - [info]ziemkowski, 2003-09-05 06:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-05 11:55 pm UTC

[info]leiabelle
2003-09-05 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Remember that Jesus CHOSE to die. Big difference between killing a baby and choosing to die in someone else's place.

Good call, y0.

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[info]imsarahann
2003-09-05 02:44 pm UTC (link)
::clapping:: Good comeback..

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[info]sthira_sukha
2003-09-05 02:51 pm UTC (link)
On this topic, is anyone here a member of a pro-choice or feminist group on campus that volunteers at abortion clinics or does similar work? I might like to help, so any info would be much appreciated....

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[info]sthira_sukha
2003-09-05 08:08 pm UTC (link)
Anyone??

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[info]aoibhinn
2003-09-05 08:43 pm UTC (link)
i used to be a member of NOW but they didn;t do much cept have meetings and send me newsletters.
maybe you should make a post to the community? I am sure there are some members who could help.

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[info]sthira_sukha
2003-09-05 09:27 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the heads up ^ ^

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[info]karlgrenze
2003-09-06 12:14 am UTC (link)
I took some classes with a girl who volunteered with Planned Parenthood...

If there is an official student organization, you can try going to the third floor of the Reitz Union and asking.

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[info]sthira_sukha
2003-09-06 11:23 am UTC (link)
Thanks ^ ^

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[info]stefanina
2003-09-05 10:38 pm UTC (link)
I personally believe that abortion as a birth control device is wrong. Abortion is a risky procedure, and if you really don't want a baby, then keep your pants zipped. (this does not refer to nonconsentual sex) But that is my personal opinion.
I dot NOT believe that the government should make abortion illegal. Quite frankly, the "abortion is murder" is a distinctly religious arguement that has no place in government. Not everyone believes that abortion is murder.

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[info]aigator
2003-09-06 12:06 am UTC (link)
Not everyone believes that pedophilia is wrong either. Look at NAMBLA.

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[info]the_tay
2003-09-06 08:10 am UTC (link)
Ah, but when is murder not murder?

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[info]the_tay
2003-09-06 08:14 am UTC (link)
Let me add that I completely agree that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother.

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(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-07 10:22 pm UTC

[info]stefanina
2003-09-06 09:34 pm UTC (link)
I think the key to that question is whether a developing fetus is alive.
To some people, yes it is. To others, no it isn't. Personally, I don't think it is murder if the life cannot sustain itself outside the mothers womb.

Most people believe otherwise. I repect that fact. But the government should not tell us what belief they have to live by.

Again, this is all my personal opinion, which is what was originally asked for.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]scarletk8
2003-09-05 11:18 pm UTC (link)
i am throwing myself to the wolves here, but.......

first off, i am personally pro-choice, however i would never have an abortion myself. i think many abuse it as a means of birth control (most people whom i know who have had abortions have had several....figure it out....). on the flip, this is a college town where many "mistakes" are likely to be made. do we need to flood the world with more unwanted children? i am a humanist. the reality is that "sin" is rampant and will result in unplanned pregnancies. hopefully these individuals with poor morals will learn from the first mistake and not let history repeat itself.

and so what if my mom had me aborted, you might ask? maybe god has a special place for aborted baby souls. in this case, chances are i would be better there anyway than with an unwed and uneducated poor single mom further adding to the country's deficit. as some people do, is it right to continuously bring child after child after child into the world to be crowded into a two-bedroom decrepit home and milk the government for all it's worth (which isn't really much.) i see this more than most of you could possibly know.

my final point is that there are many religious points made above. most likely, you were born into your religion. which one of the many organized religions in existence practices the "right" beliefs? which is the most accurate to how we really evolved into this chaotic overpopulated and many times underfed world? if you weren't taught what to believe from your upbringing, what would you believe in? organized religion is so full of hypocrisy at all levels. i find it ridiculous for a "christian" to stand in front of an abortion clinic and rant like a fool about what jesus thinks. jesus probably thinks priests shouldn't molest little boys.

amen.

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[info]aigator
2003-09-06 12:05 am UTC (link)
Because a dead child is better than a undesired child right?

By that logic let's round up homeless and handicapped people and have them euthanized. I don't want to see them "suffer" having to exist. You know, another nation helped out their "undesired" folk this way back in the 1930s and 40s. . .

Apparently quality of life now equates to the value of a human life. That means that you are only worth as much as you are wanted or as much money as you have. How utterly shallow and cynical.

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[info]loudestsound
2003-09-06 09:33 am UTC (link)
Like I said in the post, heat is not desired with such a touchy subject. It can also be inferred that insults will only bring heat. Calling her ideas "shallow" and "cynical" was not a necessary element to your argument. Actually, it only bruises your own credibility.

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(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-06 01:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 03:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smmfryguy, 2003-09-06 04:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-07 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-07 01:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-07 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-08 01:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mariachelli, 2003-09-08 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-07 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-08 01:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-08 03:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-10 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-10 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sairie, 2003-09-10 09:36 pm UTC

[info]twister10
2003-09-06 02:02 pm UTC (link)
The possibility of a child is far less important than undesired children.

What I have never understood is why people put such focus and time and energy into fighting for what could be instead of what is. Would it not be far more effective for the people who protest outside of abortion clinics to volunteer in the community and fight to make the quality of life better for the children who are living?

Abortion is not a form of birth control. It is the last alternative. Yes, many people abuse it, but in the end, I believe that it is ultimately their decision to do so, and it will be their sin and their decision that will haunt them should they choose to go through with it. It should not be a religious or political issue.

Furthermore, Abortion is never stated as a sin in the Bible. I understand the commandment of "Thou shall not kill"- and it is a good and sound commandment, but it is not specific enough. Kill what? Canwe not kill animals to eat? Not all Christians are vegetarians as I understand. Fundamentalists argue that a fetus is a human life, and to take it is murder. God's word says otherwise. In Exodus 21:22-25 it states that if a man accidentally kills a pregnant woman, that man should be condemned for committing murder. However, if he only kills the fetus - that is, if she miscarries - he is not condemned for murder.


Just my 2 1/2 cents to bring to the argument.

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(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loudestsound, 2003-09-06 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 10:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarletk8, 2003-09-06 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-09-06 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loudestsound, 2003-09-07 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-07 02:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-07 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-08 01:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2003-09-08 03:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-07 02:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]twister10, 2003-09-07 03:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aigator, 2003-09-08 02:14 pm UTC

[info]boyishwonder
2003-09-08 10:11 pm UTC (link)
um, I am pro choice, not that it really matters since it is a decision I'll never have to make. On a side note, this got me thinking about having kids. I think it would be great if everybody only had one child. We would totally stop the overpopulation problem and hopefully provide for the people already on the planet. I realize of course that there is no moral way to regulate that kind of thing. I guess its just a thought.

"Thats the most D&D shit ever. Where are the unicorns?" - David Cross on the book of Genesis

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