Stella ([info]sjazzmreow) wrote in [info]ffrantsrants,
@ 2008-04-29 19:11:00
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Not on.
In regards to this whole fiasco (which has been brought up here once already today by [info]west_side). I'm rather a little concerned.

The general consensus is the the OP and the reviewer she (assuming gender, here. What's that old rule? "There are no boys on the internet"?) quotes were out of line. Fine, good, yes. But it seems not everyone got that impression, and some people took it upon themselves to go to ff.net and leave reviews of their own backing up the OP and her friend. Some of them mention that they got there through [info]fanficrants.

I amazed at the sheer callousness and stupidity of that.

So now this poor girl knows that there is an entire LJ community that knows about her fic, her reviews, and her responses to those reviews, and, because of the wording of the people that mentioned it, she is going to think that we were all making fun of her. No one deserves that. I don't care how badly she may or may not have behaved, she did not deserve to have her self esteem crushed. No one has the right to do that to anybody else. THose reviewers should be bloody ashamed of themselves - there is a real person reading those reviews, for God's sake! I am utterly disgusted.

And what if she or one of her other reviewers takes it upon themselves to go find this "LJ community where people make fun of bad fanfic"? Do we really need people coming in here all outrage and misunderstandings? Can you imagine what that could be like?! FFR doesn't need wanking over something so silly and easily avoidable.
(I'm also a little disturbed by ffr being called a place where people "make fun of" bad fic. Yeah, that happens, quite a bit, but it's not the entirety of the comm, and makes it sound much more petty than it can sometimes be. It's certainly not all of why I'm here, anyway.)

Maybe we need a new rule?

Perhaps: The twelth rule of ffr is, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FFR. ...That's a bit extreme, but nicking fandomwank's rule of not telling someone when they've been ranted about could have some merit.


Contrarywise - sometimes I just adore the people of ffr so much. Since the posting of the initial rant, several wonderful people have taken it upon themselves to go to ff.net and encourage the writer. Hopefully those reviews can go some way towards making up for the cruelty of the OP and the other reviews she inspired. That's the kind of thing we should be encouraging; cutting down the badfic quota by helping fic writers gain in knowledge and skills without hurting feelings and crushing spirits. Much ♥ to them.


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[info]kazaera
2008-04-29 09:31 am UTC (link)
... so much word.

I'm beginning to wish we had a rule like in F_W myself - although F_W's is just /don't/ go participate, and I think people sometimes also do something like go and drop polite concrit or something like you mentioned. But the flaming? Yeah. And even if you go there, surely there's no reason to /tell/ the author they've been ranted about? I thought we were here to vent spleen where the author /couldn't/ see?

And yeah, FFR is not a sporking comm. I'm a regular, and the vast majority of my posts are regarding general trends in fanfiction; in fact, I quit hanging around GAFF years ago because I really don't really feel comfortable picking on a specific person like that.

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[info]rainejoybringer
2008-04-29 12:25 pm UTC (link)
I'm on the GAFF, but I never comment on anything other than the worst stuff there. I'm just there for the GA News, I love that.

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[info]neutralalienist
2008-04-29 03:11 pm UTC (link)
Yeah - I wouldn't want one banning interaction completely, because sometimes people are polite, and helpful, and encouraging; but flaming ought not to be tolerated.

Heh, I'm rather fond of GAFF, but I haven't visited New Releases in a long time.

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[info]bluebombardier
2008-04-29 04:26 pm UTC (link)
FFR is not a sporking comm.

Is there any way for this to be amended into the comm rules/specs? It might help curb the non-rant content. I thought it was wacky enough when people ranted about reviews they received, since reviews != fics, but when they start ranting about reviews someone else receives it's a few too many degrees of separation from the whole point of the comm.

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[info]rhube
2008-04-29 07:13 pm UTC (link)
I thought we already had a rule like that... but that migth be my common sense talking...

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[info]ecchipiro
2008-04-29 09:55 am UTC (link)
Couldn't agree more ... Hell, the girl is effing TWELVE years old ...

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[info]emma_moon
2008-04-29 10:06 am UTC (link)
Wow.

I saw the two posts in question, but I try to follow my own rule of "if I don't agree with the subject, just scroll on by". Sometimes I bend that rule, but in most cases I stick to my guns.

I agree with you 100%. It's a 12 year old girl. How can anyone feel good about making her feel awful? I wonder if the OP of the two above mentioned posts thinks she's so superior for what she's done.

FFR is not God Awful Fan Fiction, or any type of sporking community. I guess the OP can take herself to one of those so she can feel justified for the garbage she spews.

*shakes head

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[info]domlandbubbles
2008-04-29 10:13 am UTC (link)
Geez. Even if it wasn't a 12 year old kid, that's pretty classless.

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[info]vampirenaomi
2008-04-29 10:33 am UTC (link)
Complete agreement here. I'm not one bit surprised that the girl reacted the way she did. I took a look at the profile of the OP's "concrit account" at FF.Net and it was so full of condescending shit that I'm pretty sure even I would be upset if I got a review from someone like that, regardless of what the review said.

I could maybe understand giving harsh reviews, but there's no excuse for coming to brag about it to a place like FFR and get people to gang up on the girl. I have always hated these "I reviewed someone and they flipped; see how funny and awesome I am when I bitch slap someone on the Internet!" reports. There can be only one motivation behind them, and that's the desire to have your fifteen minutes of attention and pats on the back.

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[info]kuromitsu
2008-04-29 11:02 am UTC (link)
I think the new rule should simply be "DO NOT BE A FUCKING TROLL KTHX."

This is what happens when people mistake FFR for GAFF (again) and come here bragging about their adventures in trolling.

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[info]rhianwen_24601
2008-04-29 09:16 pm UTC (link)
I think the new rule should simply be "DO NOT BE A FUCKING TROLL KTHX."

I like it. Clear, concise, and classy. :D

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[info]elektra_alpha
2008-04-29 11:25 am UTC (link)
Well does that fall in rule#8?
8. Do not try to whip up the community members into a frothing mob to sic on someone. fanficrants does not condone trolling other sites off the community. Violators will be banned if they are caught doing this. Posts pointing out links to other forums, communities, websites, etc and asking members to flame will be deleted and the violator banned. (I must also point out that doing so is likely to have the unintended effect of making people point and laugh at you.)

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[info]sjazzmreow
2008-04-29 12:22 pm UTC (link)
I don't think so. The poster didn't ask the comm to go after the fic though, just provided a link and said "see for yourself" or some such. She didn't encourage us to flame, and I think was rather under the impression that her own review wasn't a flame either, but was quite reasonable.

It's not so much the going and dissing the author I find so unacceptable (though I do think it very very bad form), but letting her know she's been ranted about. Which isn't in the rules at all.

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(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-29 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aramis_chan, 2008-04-29 12:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-04-29 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aramis_chan, 2008-04-29 12:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sjazzmreow, 2008-04-29 12:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aramis_chan, 2008-04-29 01:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sjazzmreow, 2008-04-29 01:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmar_wingnut, 2008-04-29 04:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-04-29 08:42 pm UTC

[info]cmar_wingnut
2008-04-29 11:49 am UTC (link)
I absolutely agree that this incident was unfortunate and disturbing, both in the OPs themselves, the usual initial 'word' responses to the first OP (we've talked about that before) and maybe most of all that people followed the link and dogpiled this 12 year old writer. (It's nice some folks also tried to encourage her, but I'm afraid that only emphasized the fact that her story had been linked from ffr.)

But - I gotta say I think it's naive to be surprised this happened, and unrealistic to say ffr isn't a sporking community. FFR may have been created as a place to rant about trends in fanfic, and you still find that, but it's increasingly turned into making sometimes childish fun of specific stories and authors. Sometimes a link is provided (and if not, it's often asked for) and it's only human nature that some people will follow the link and put their own two cents in. It's also only human nature that some of those will be tactless and cruel enough to mention where they've come from. This is far from the first time that an author has found out they've been sporked on ffr, and it won't be the last, yet many people seem to assume that whatever they say there is protected somehow.

I don't know about fandomwank's rule - I do know when I participated on GAFF I used to see links to discussions there fairly often. I would think a 'no talking about ffr' rule would be impossible to enforce - maybe a 'no links' rule would be more effective.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]elektra_alpha, 2008-04-29 12:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmar_wingnut, 2008-04-29 12:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-04-29 12:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nenya85, 2008-04-29 12:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmar_wingnut, 2008-04-29 01:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nenya85, 2008-04-29 12:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmar_wingnut, 2008-04-29 01:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elektra_alpha, 2008-04-29 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kutsuwamushi, 2008-04-30 12:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sjazzmreow, 2008-04-29 12:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmar_wingnut, 2008-04-29 01:14 pm UTC

[info]rainejoybringer
2008-04-29 12:33 pm UTC (link)
If I ever get linked to a fic through an outside site, I never mention it. I agree on that rule there. Knowing that there is much more to something than what is just in the reviews can be more than enough of a blow. It should only be done in the most extreme cases perhaps.

I find it saddening that a lot of people jump on the bandwagon so quickly and don't stop to consider other points. You notice that as soon as one person made the comment about them simply flaming a 12 year-old, others stopped to think and there was a change.

Perhaps FFR needs a change in attitude as well? Towards one of encouragement for those who need it. If only the world were that perfect, however...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kari_izumi, 2008-04-30 05:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-04-30 08:19 am UTC

[info]bluebombardier
2008-04-29 04:36 pm UTC (link)
The twelth rule of ffr is, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FFR.

I concur. We chew out our own already, why not take it to Fight Club levels? :P

No, really, I think it's a good rule to have. We can get downright vicious, and while I do believe that an author has the right to defend their work, it's best that they find us on their own when they're ready to give a good fight instead of buckling after the first blow and descending into hyper-sensitive hysterics and chat-speak.

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[info]crimsong
2008-04-29 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Seriously I've moticed after I first joined FFrants a growing trend torwards either sporking or turning on fellow writers. (Not just when justified, it's even to nitpicking one's spelling in the comments!) It seems for a ranting community to get something off your chest it's turning into a ranting playground for the 'elitist'. So many rants are all the same, either a simple word misspelling to this trend of 'let's pick on the author.' If you are going to rant about a story, don't everyone gang up on them in reviews. Just look at it laugh/groan/whatever and it's done with. And in FFrants have fun but keep it in the community have some fun and leave feeling a little better through the day. Lord knows there is enough other bad fic to come upon. (Hope I worded this right?)

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[info]minni
2008-04-29 04:56 pm UTC (link)
The one time I gave out links (per request) to a story that was centerpiece to my rant was when I posted about plagarizing my work and doing a horrible job at covering it up. [info]fanficrants is pretty good about sticking up for it's own, even if half of us have no idea what our own is supposed to be, and the other half is going to contest it.

Mostly because [info]fanficrants is also given to eating its own.

Personally, I'm against dogpiling anyone who's only crime (if we can call it that) was bad fanfiction. Those of us who have never written bad fiction may cast the first stone.

*crickets chirp*

Very well; everyone may now go forth and be very happy that they aren't in that 12 year old's shoes. (I know I wouldn't want to be!)

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(Anonymous)
2008-04-29 06:58 pm UTC (link)
On the first post, it seemed like as per usual, you (general sense) get some people who are chiming in to agree, then you get people who actually see what is wrong with that and speak out, and from then on, no one else agrees with the OP.

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[info]iggy04
2008-04-29 07:10 pm UTC (link)
I agree.

I just sit here waiting for something to get "serious" enough that it ends up on Fandom_Wank at journalfen.

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(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-04-30 08:25 am UTC

[info]tentationem
2008-04-29 08:31 pm UTC (link)
The whole thing kind of disturbs me, actually.

It's one thing to flame/troll someone - it's quite another to flame/troll someone who you are aware is a TWELVE YEAR OLD GIRL, especially when you are much, much older than her. How old are most people on [info]fanficrants? In their twenties? Older? And there's that one lady who's in her fifties, right?

TBH, it kind of makes me sick.

But I haven't been happy with [info]fanficrants for a long time now, anyways.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-04-29 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kazaera, 2008-04-30 05:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sjazzmreow, 2008-04-30 10:30 am UTC

[info]rainejoybringer
2008-04-30 12:01 am UTC (link)
Oh dear... seen the latest chapter on the girl's fic?

FFR, I'm disgusted.

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[info]kutsuwamushi
2008-04-30 12:48 am UTC (link)
This is horrible. Thanks for posting about it.

I'd like to make a request of everyone reading, though. Please contact the mods if there's a problem that you think needs our attention. FFR is a stupidly busy comm and just can't read it all--especially the stuff that takes place outside of the comm.

If you see trolling or flaming in connection with FFR, let us know. I don't know what we can or will do about it yet, but we won't even be thinking of solutions if we don't know that there's a problem.

At the very least, identifiable FFR members who are troll or flame after seeing something posted on FFR will be banned.

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[info]kidkai
2008-04-30 04:07 am UTC (link)
Perhaps a rule similar to Fandom Wank's "Do not get involved in the wank" is needed.

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[info]kari_izumi
2008-04-30 05:36 am UTC (link)

Perhaps: The twelth rule of ffr is, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FFR. ...That's a bit extreme, but nicking fandomwank's rule of not telling someone when they've been ranted about could have some merit.

GAFF had this in place since day one IIRC. At first I thought it was to keep from us being flooded with trolls, but as I grew up, i realize that just because I was the odd newbie fanfic writer that would have laughed off a snarking of my fics doesn't mean most people are.

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