ffrantsrants: I'm not sure where to put this

kahran042 (

kahran042) wrote in

ffrantsrants,
@ 2007-05-28 03:33:00

Current mood:

uncomfortable

I'm not sure where to put this
Even though I left fanficrants, I still visit it due to trainwreck syndrome and because there are still some discussions there that are good and nice to read. Unfortunately, I sometimes see a post that I just can't help making some really harsh response to. Example:

http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/4819150.html

Anyway, can someone help me with a way to avoid becoming a total asshole when seeing something that I strongly disagree with? Thanks in advance.

(Post a new comment)

gefrierpunkt
2007-05-28 08:11 am UTC (link)

Well, you can always respect the fact that people have opinions. Respect that people will have opinions different from yours -- gasp. I know, it's a scary thought that someone might think differently. However, it's one you need to accept.

So, instead of being a little pissant, you could always find a part of the OP's post, say something along the lines of them making a valid point, but cite instances where it is disproved. Start a discussion, instead of seeing how big you e-penis can grow.

Also, icon related, and directed at you.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 08:19 am UTC (link)
	But most of the time, I DON'T think that they have a valid point. :( (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mikkeneko 2007-05-28 11:08 am UTC (link)
	This comment is violating rule #2 of the userinfo, and your icon is way out of line. And it is making me hate you. Consider this your second warning (because I remember you from the first wank a few months ago.) A third warning and you will be banned from this community. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	rocknload 2007-05-28 09:30 am UTC (link)
	You can disagree with someone without being an asshole. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	rocknload 2007-05-28 09:16 pm UTC (link)
	Was my other comment against the rules or something? 'Cause it's gone, gone, gone. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	mikkeneko 2007-05-30 03:03 pm UTC (link)
	Another comment here? I'd blame LJ, not the mods. As exampled above, we prefer to freeze comment threads rather than to delete something, unless there is something grossly inappropriate about the comment or its icon. (Reply to this) (Parent)

I'm going to be honest since i have a hangover anyway...

wildannuette
2007-05-28 09:35 am UTC (link)

My advice? The rant was good, well worded for the most part and whilst warrented disagreement-didn't warrent it as violently so. You have every right to disagree, i did so myself with it in places, but the moment you use baby/sarcastic/patronising language-you lose the arguement.

If you want to disgagree you should do so, but you shouldn't let people who have probably in the past-guessing from the way you jumped on the OP-who have flamed, caused wank over tiny details or dissed AU/Ar fics, make you automatically jump on the defensive and use such a tone and manner.

I personally get tired and even actively hate all the mpreg rants. I know the issues behind them, i try to keep mine IC and interesting plot wise, so nothing makes me more furious when generalization occurs. But I always wait a while before posting my replies. I write a response, private lock it to my own journal and then do some rping and fic reading for twenty or so before going back to look it over. A lot of the time things get cut out so i would suggest that alongside avoiding the baby-talk.

All rants are open to disagreement and condescending but just like there's a difference between concrit/critique and flaming-there's one between posting disagreement and being plain rude.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I'm going to be honest since i have a hangover anyway... elektra_alpha 2007-05-29 12:00 am UTC (link)
	Only Mpreg I ranted about are something really bad like vagina involve, man boobs and some other. And note: constructive criticism =/= critique. Thank you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

el_regrs
2007-05-28 01:02 pm UTC (link)

"You mean "by your horrible, flawed logic," not "by your logic.""

"Yes, it is, you RETARD! You are a horrible person and I hope you die a horrible bloody death. Besides, anyone who says "NEVER WRITE ANYTHING NOT EXPLICITLY STATED IN CANON OR ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (read: you) is automatically a homophobe."

"If you detest "fandom policing," then WHY are you agreeing with this idiot?"

"It's people like you who make me want to just post "FUCK CANON!" in big red letters."

"Well, no, but you obviously want to violently murder anyone who writes anything that goes against your PWECIOUS CANON and also want to ban all slash/femslash because all canon fanatic MORONS like you are homophobes."

I think it's safe to say you've crossed that line.

In the future, you could begin a post with "I disagree with this" and go from there. Just say your honest opinions, and use a little tact. Also, it helps to not take everything personally--which can be hard, I know, especially when your opinion clashes with someone else's. Just remember, whenever you make the decision to bite hard, don't be surprised when people bite back just as hard. If you don't want to sound like an asshole, don't resort to the name-calling (unless they absolutely deserve it, heh...but that's another discussion altogether), try not to get mad at anyone personally just because their opinion differs from yours. It also helps not to use unfriendly phrases such as "well, it's people like YOU..." because people can get the wrong idea pretty quickly. You can be a little aggressive, but don't be a ticking, typing time bomb.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

ericmushroom
2007-05-28 06:27 pm UTC (link)

You are a horrible person and I hope you die a horrible bloody death

Woah, wait, they actually said that? And were serious? Over a post in a livejournal community about fanfiction?

That's kind of going overboard. As well as a bit of a waste of wishing death upon someone. See, "I hope you die violently" is something you want to save for more extreme occasions, lest you become known as "Johnny, who, upon learning that his little brother called him stupid, immediately screamed to said brother and all who would listen "I hope you die violenty, slowly and painfully and then go to hell, where you are gang-raped by Satan and all his minions, friends, family, pets and secretaries FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!exclamationmarksaddemphasis" or some other, similarly long-winded and unflattering title.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	el_regrs 2007-05-28 10:41 pm UTC (link)
	Yyyyyup. I've been trying to figure out if they were serious or if they were just deliberately trolling, but those are exact quotes. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	ericmushroom 2007-05-29 05:12 pm UTC (link)
	You'd think it'd be pretty obvious that not saying stuff like that would help in the whole "disagree without lookng like an asshole" thing they wanted to know how to do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	minni 2007-05-28 09:47 pm UTC (link)
	Way to make whatever side you're on look stupid. ^^;; The sort of attitude displayed through those kind of comments is enough to make me wish I could bury my head in canon and refuse to enjoy any alternative pairings. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	sharkcowsheep 2007-05-28 10:18 pm UTC (link)
	Aww, you don't want to do that. Think of Harry/Giant Squid! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	minni 2007-05-28 10:22 pm UTC (link)
	I've always been partial to Snape/Kneazle, myself. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	sharkcowsheep 2007-05-28 10:32 pm UTC (link)
	Personally I ship Mrs. Norris and Dobby. (Reply to this) (Parent)

toxictattoo
2007-05-28 01:16 pm UTC (link)

I almost sympathized with you. I've seen posts I wanted to write some pretty harsh responses to. Then I read your responses in the thread.

Now, not so much.

It's pretty apparent that you don't have issues with the post but with the poster and that came out pretty clear in every one of your responses except one. In which case, I suggest you simply stay clear of the poster and any posts they make if it's going to flip your switch so badly you can't respond any way BUT as a raging jerk.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 04:06 pm UTC (link)
	But I really did see the post as being kind of obnoxious. Now I realize that it wasn't so bad, but I'm not sure what to do now. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	toxictattoo 2007-05-28 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	Okay. I'll bite, with the possibility that you really are sincere. Answer me this. What was it about the post that got your ire up? I mean, what specifically was said that pissed you off? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 09:35 pm UTC (link)
	The whole "interviews/sourcebooks aren't canon" thing. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

mimi_sardinia
2007-05-29 05:41 am UTC (link)

The Op admitted, in the thread I weighed in on with clarification, that they probably weren't clear on that factor.

As I said over there, source books, interviews - even movies that are based on books* - aren't the original canon so it is not wrong for any fic writer to ignore them. On the other hand it is not wrong for any fic writer to use them to flesh out their writing either.

It's all a matter of multiple levels of canon.

(* And by "movies that are based on books", I mean fandoms like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings - just as examples.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

toxictattoo
2007-05-29 09:28 pm UTC (link)

Ahhhh. Hm. See, I guess I didn't catch that in the original OP entry. Was it something they said later?

I suppose, just as everyone else has suggested, if you feel your blood pressure rising and your fingers aren't pressing the keys on your keyboard but pounding on them, you might want to shut everything down and walk away for a bit.

You could, if you can exercise some self control, open up a word document and spew your vitrol there, as long as you close it without saving when you're done. Never, ever send your first draft of anything. Write it, put it down and then come back to it later when you're calmer.

I used to have problems with things said online, especially in

fanfictrants, sending me straight to the moon. Somewhere along the way I realized that, in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really matter.

People will agree, people will disagree and it's how you handle yourself that is more telling than what you agree or disagree with.

At least your responses here in this entry have been reasonable and you seem to be making an attempt to change it, which is admirable.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	toxictattoo 2007-05-29 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	And I lose in the spelling department. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	dinpik 2007-05-28 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	Learn to cope with the inevitable situation that they may have a point, and you may just be flat-out wrong. It happens in real life, it'll happen in fandom. (Reply to this)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 04:05 pm UTC (link)
	Sometimes I feel like if I disagree politely, it'll just be lost in the endless sea of "Word!" and "You win the internet!" (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sharkcowsheep 2007-05-28 04:15 pm UTC (link)
	And if you disagree like a frothing nutball, people will dismiss you out of hand. Wonder why? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 04:18 pm UTC (link)
	Well, is there a middle road where I'll be noticed, but not dismissed? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	sharkcowsheep 2007-05-28 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	Yep. It's that 18,000-lane highway between "Perhaps I have a tiny disagreement with your reasoning" and "I HOPE YOU DIE YOU RETARD!!!!!!". Can't miss it, it takes up most of the map. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ericmushroom 2007-05-28 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	It's an argument on the internet. It's not as if you're going to change anyone's mind, or they're going to change yours. Really, the best you can hope for is not looking like an arse. (Reply to this) (Parent)

domlandbubbles
2007-05-28 06:24 pm UTC (link)

The back button is your friend. The back button followed by pictures of kitties.

Alternately, type out your gut response, but post it to your own journal (or delete it) instead of responding to the poster. That way you can disagree, share your opinion with others without trying to smack someone down or "show them the error of their ways."

The "back button + kitties" usually works for me, though (most of the time) and is generally better for my mental health.

(Reply to this)

ericmushroom
2007-05-28 06:43 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry, but no matter how much "train wreck syndrome" you claim, it's not going to change the face that responding to a post is something you choose to do, not something you "can't help" doing. Sure, you meet feel compelled to post a righteously indignant response with liberal use of exclamation marks, but it doesn't mean you have to.

Maybe try thinking your responses over a bit. Consider whether they seem like reasonable discussion or flames. In particular, avoiding saying things like "you RETARD" or "You are a horrible person and I hope you die a horrible bloody death". Maybe substitute something less inflammatory like "I hope you die a relatively pleasant, painless death after a long life of prosperity".

(Reply to this)

	mikkeneko 2007-05-28 10:16 pm UTC (link)
	Anyway, can someone help me with a way to avoid becoming a total asshole when seeing something that I strongly disagree with? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Late to the Party! kari_izumi 2007-06-25 09:42 am UTC (link)
	Lol! XD I'm not seeing what was so wank-worthy in that linked post, either. It's well-worded and only the nit-pickiest of folks could find something wrong with that. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kahran042 2007-05-28 11:13 pm UTC (link)
	I really feel bad about what I did, and I wish I hadn't done it. But I don't know what to do about it. I can't erase my posts, because that's against ffrants rules, so is there any way I can make up for what I did? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sharkcowsheep 2007-05-28 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	Not really. The one good thing about fucking up and making an ass of yourself on ffrants is that everybody forgets about it in a week. Or hell, you could buy me an iPod. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	nenya85 2007-05-29 12:59 am UTC (link)
	You could always try apologizing. Like something along the lines of: I really feel bad about what I did, and I wish I hadn't done it. But I don't know what to do about it. Please accept my apologies. I don't know if it makes the other person feel better, but when I've been a total jerk, I feel that the least I can do is to acknowledge that fact. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jpopson 2007-05-29 05:28 am UTC (link)
	Change your username and pray people won't recognize you. Serious Answer: Just apologize. I always do it when I get out of line, and it always makes things better. So unless that person is an ass who won't accept an apology (and they definitely seem like they aren't an ass), just tell them (and explaining why you felt the way you felt works too). (Reply to this) (Parent)

kutsuwamushi
2007-05-29 01:14 am UTC (link)

I think I can solve your problem for you.

The next time that you see a post that makes you so angry that you think you might lose all control of yourself, take a deep, calming breath and repeat: "If I don't stop acting like a raging asshole,

kutsuwamushi will ban me."

Of course, if you'd like, I could always ban you right now. Then your baffling inability to refrain from spewing all-caps insults and wishing a horrible death on people you disagree with will never be an issue again. At least not on

fanficrants. I imagine it might continue to give you problems in other areas of your life.

(Reply to this)

jpopson
2007-05-29 05:22 am UTC (link)

If something as trivial over the internet as a discussion about what someone says is/isn't canon (according to them) fills you with so much rage, it's best just to ignore it (because sometimes you can't respond to those kind of things without looking like an asshole). Step away from the internet for a while.

This happens to me sometimes. Just calm yourself before replying. You don't have to reply that very instant (or at all), because when you're angry your responses can sometimes get very incoherent, and end up with you ignoring the point just to yell at the commenter.

Next time, if you have to "attack", attack what they said. Not the person themself. But it's better to wait until you're calm, just read it over a few times, and try to be polite as you can. Because attracting attention with asshole comments isn't going to get you anywhere, in any case. And it will only detract from your real opinion on the matter.

I could understand if the OP was being rude as well, but they weren't, and there was really no reason for you to blow up.

(Reply to this)

orthent
2007-05-29 06:03 am UTC (link)

Anyway, can someone help me with a way to avoid becoming a total asshole when seeing something that I strongly disagree with?

Well, you could walk away until you're calm enough to say something like "I could not disagree with you more." You could write out your disagreement in a notebook, using reasoned arguments instead of insults, and refrain from posting it for a few hours, then take a critical look at it and ask yourself if you've said anything avoidably assholish that you'll regret.

You could remind yourself that all you'll achieve by flailing and screaming abuse is to make sure that you won't be taken seriously.

(Reply to this)

Username:		Create an Account Forgot your login? Login w/ OpenID
Password:
	Remember Me
	English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…

About

Help

Get Involved

Legal

Store

LJ Labs