WHAT THE FUCK!?!
Hola ladies. This is my first rage here. It's related to the recent post about White Wolf games, and the game they have put out called "Pimp: The Backhanding". (Do you guys need me to repost the link?)

I just wrote them about ten minutes ago and I have already recieved an e-mailed response. I figured it was just an automatic message saying that they recieved my e-mail. Oh no! I am so PISSED OFF I could scream! It was short, to the point, and arrogant as FUCK.

Here was my e-mail:

"'Pimp: The Backhanding
If You Like Being Politically Correct & Never Laughing, Don't Buy This Game'

Hi, I am a woman who games at least once a week. I play AD&D, and Vampire. I really enjoy your products and games, but I have to say that I am *extremely* offended by this game. I don't consider myself a stick-in-the-mud, and I am often times not politically correct, but this is very, very offensive not only to myself and the other women I game with, but to all people of color. Yes, maybe it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but it's not funny. It's not funny at all.

I am very disappointed that your company would produce a game so offensive, rude, and insensitive. And until this game is removed, neither myself, my husband, and our friends (both male and female) will be buying any more of your products, or playing your games.

Sincerely, Amber ~~~~~"

Here was his reply:

"Why not do something about real mistreatment of women such as that referenced in this article ( http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/08/congo.peacekeepers.sex/ index.html ) rather than malign people for making a game which mocks the criminals who engage in the illegal prostitution industry? "

Holy shit! Thanks for making me feel sooooo much better about your company's decision to sell this game. Wow! I think I'll race out right now and buy it, and then I'll run to the local women's shelter and we can all have a rousing game of "Pimp" because it's just a game! Thanks for putting my head back on straight there, Colin, I appreciate it. I forgot all about the actual helping women part, I've never done that, ya know. >:(

Edited to add: Sorry, his name was Conrad, not Colin - want to get the poophead's name right. :P
Also, I did forward the e-mail to the director of marketing, so let's see what happens.

(Post a new comment)

	rackletang 2005-01-10 07:25 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, yes. Colin evidences no privilege of any kind there. I don't at all want to ram my boot up his smug, self-righteous ass. Not at all. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:45 pm UTC

(no subject) - reachingxout, 2005-01-11 04:22 am UTC

	heavenscalyx 2005-01-10 07:29 pm UTC (link)
	Nice to see that the overall attitude of offensive defensiveness there hasn't changed despite many changes of staff over the years. [/sarcasm] (Reply to this)

	panic_girl 2005-01-10 07:31 pm UTC (link)
	It never fails to amuse (anger) me how people in power can tell you where you should be spending your rage and time. Another case of men</i> telling us what we are allowed to be offended by, and what causes they feel are worth of our time. Yipee. :\ (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - panic_girl, 2005-01-10 07:32 pm UTC

(no subject) - snidegrrl, 2005-01-10 07:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - panic_girl, 2005-01-10 07:41 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:45 pm UTC

(no subject) - quitelife00, 2005-01-10 10:39 pm UTC

	savetherob0ts 2005-01-10 07:33 pm UTC (link)
	Ask him if his company's next game will be "Funny Uncle: The Molesting," with the object to make a child abuser molest as many children as possible. Because it's so fun and amusing to "mock" abuse. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - kwpdb8, 2005-01-10 07:57 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - 0taxidermy0, 2005-01-10 11:48 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:01 am UTC

(no subject) - mizuuta, 2005-01-11 05:11 am UTC

(no subject) - 0taxidermy0, 2005-01-11 06:44 pm UTC

	notmarcie 2005-01-10 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder what Colin does to help the women reference in that article ? I am guessing he isn't donating any profits from the game. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:46 pm UTC

	emiofbrie 2005-01-10 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	I read that game title and thought, "this has GOT to be a joke", but then I went to WW's site, and remembered that it's still almost 3 months before April Fool's Day. Okay, I'm offended. What the hell is WW thinking?!?! (Reply to this)

	thebirdwoman 2005-01-10 07:51 pm UTC (link)
	WW have obviously taken leave of their senses. I can't believe they're so arrogant and foolish as to insult customers who care enough to communicate with them! I would threaten to boycott them, but I haven't bought a roleplaying supplement since 1997. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - panic_girl, 2005-01-10 07:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - thebirdwoman, 2005-01-10 08:08 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:47 pm UTC

(no subject) - thebirdwoman, 2005-01-10 08:56 pm UTC

disastrid 2005-01-10 07:58 pm UTC (link)

i called them. (you can too - phone (404) 292-1819 and ask for philip, he's the director of marketing. they're somewhere in georgia. quel suprise0)y7 i told them that i'm all for humour and all for irony and am a big toilet humour fan (these things are true) but that this broke all rules of taste and sensitivity. he told me, when i asked, that yes, women had playtested it and found it hilarious (who the fuck ARE these women?!) and that he felt that the game's concept was so over the top and ridiculous that it couldn't be offensive. i told him that i didn't feel that there was any way to NOT be offensive when you're talking about the exploitation of women and making light of women as property. he thanked me for expressing my opinion. i told him that there were a lot of other women a hell of a lot more pissed than i was (i managed to be diplomatic actually, very out of character!) i wonder if they would put out a game about slave trading or child porn. i fail to understand why prostitution is any different. i recommend having a chat with philip - he was nice but clearly thought that i was blowing it way out of proportion. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - disastrid, 2005-01-10 07:59 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:56 pm UTC

(no subject) - mizuuta, 2005-01-11 05:18 am UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-12 07:02 pm UTC

(no subject) - anne_jumps, 2005-01-10 09:08 pm UTC

pi216 2005-01-10 08:14 pm UTC (link)

1. Yeah, why don't you go push the U.N. around for a behavior that is portrayed as 'entertaining' and 'acceptable' by their card game? 2. Did he forget to look up what 'malign' means? Where did you "malign" them in that email? All you did was inform him of a basic 'if-then'. If they sell that, you're not going to buy anything else from them. That one's right up there with that howwasshe.com idiot saying we were trying to censor him and deny him his freedom of speech, when we were just exercising our own free speech... to his service providers. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-10 08:59 pm UTC

	skycrashesdown 2005-01-10 08:20 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus christ. This is why I hate being a woman gamer sometimes. I don't know what the fuck Whitewolf is thinking. (Reply to this)

	raeling 2005-01-10 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	I looked at the site and couldn't find an e-mail address. Could someone post one, so we can all make ourselves heard? (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - thebirdwoman, 2005-01-10 08:33 pm UTC

(no subject) - disastrid, 2005-01-10 10:20 pm UTC

0taxidermy0 2005-01-10 11:44 pm UTC (link)

STUPID FUCKER. I am sooooo angry. My household are now under a complete WW ban. No books, whatsoever. I don't know where to begin. Is this the way proffessionals tlak to their customers at WW? And nevermind that this game "mocks criminals", what about the mockery of the women, the prostitutes and the hell that prostitution can be? And apparently, if you're not in the UN forces trying to save every human on earth nothing you say matters. DAMN FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGH!!!! /L. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - 0taxidermy0, 2005-01-10 11:53 pm UTC

	candika 2005-01-11 12:28 am UTC (link)
	When will these morons realise that it's not 'just a game'. It's practice damnit! You have have to be selective in who you play and what. Especially if you do it for any length of time. It gets the players used to thinking a particular way. A way that'd different to how they usually think. That's it's beauty but also it's danger. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:02 am UTC

(no subject) - candika, 2005-01-11 05:38 am UTC

stock reply superblue 2005-01-11 01:58 am UTC (link)

apparently, the link they gave you and the reply is stock. a friend of mine got the same thing after i posted the link and encouragement to send letters in my personal journal. all the more enraged, i sent the following to them (not that it will do any good, as we were saying, deaf ears can't hear). Instead of sending me a self righteous little message about helping out people in the Congo, let's skip all that and deal with the issue at hand. Games that glamorize violence against women and use trite stereotypes to refer to people of color is insulting to everyone and serves to perpetuate the cycle of human trafficking. When we place little or no value on the bodies of women and people who are not white, this sends the message that they are not human beings, but merely chattle. Despite your exhortations to "do something to really help people," your real message is, "In the scheme of things, this game does not matter." While that's very existential and may help you sleep at night, it does not in any way help root out the causes of sexism and racism, but merely perpetuates this type of thinking. I'll be sure to let all the RPGers I know that your company is a proud supporter of institutionalized sexism and racism. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: stock reply - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:04 am UTC

Re: stock reply - superblue, 2005-01-11 05:34 am UTC

and the response... - superblue, 2005-01-11 09:50 pm UTC

Hmm. proteanglow 2005-01-11 02:14 am UTC (link)

What I asked: Does the game Pimp: The Backhanding include male and children prostitutes? If not, why? ..And the answer I got: Check it out in February and see for yourself. -- Conrad Hubbard ~~ Ahem. Maybe I'm being a tad..cynical here, but does that answer mean no? I wonder why..hmm, perhaps they consider only women 'hos' amusing, and the rest, gasp, offensive? Gee! Fifteen minutes later I got this: "I'd recommend people that want to do something about actual abuse of women, as opposed to assaulting people because they are mocking the criminals that engage in illegal prostitution, check out this link, and go do something about it: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/08/congo.peacekeepers.sex/ index.html Or is it maybe too difficult to attack real world problems, so you would prefer to attack fictional ones?" Again, from dear old Conrad. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Hmm. - anne_jumps, 2005-01-13 02:25 am UTC

	roguetailkinker 2005-01-11 03:12 am UTC (link)
	What a stunning example of a misogynistic shitwit. (Reply to this)

oh my fucking god idemandjustice 2005-01-11 03:18 am UTC (link)

My grammar wasn't great in this email because I was pissed off, but the reply is just... fucking god. *** On Jan 10, 2005, at 9:56 PM, Angie Pugh wrote: > Originating IP: 172.162.154.145 > I am a long time player of your games, Perhaps. > and a member of the Camarilla fanclub. I am also very active in > feminist causes, and am rather taken aback upon discovering this > particular game. Surely a real feminist sees the difference between fictional activities and real abuse? But perhaps not. If you don't see the difference, then I can only pray that you do someday. > A game like this makes light of extremely painful subject women for > many women who are victimized every day. Have you considered helping the victims rather than creating more victims? > How can the victimization of women possibly begin to lessen when > people treat it as a joke as you, and those who will purchase this > game, are doing? > > I am also very disappointed to know that someone I know has already > written you a complaint, and has received an extremely combative reply > from you, How is requesting that people perhaps consider doing something about the real mistreatment of women a "combative reply"? I can only imagine what somebody might feel about the feminist movement if they somehow felt that asking people to help the movement was somehow combative. One might be discouraged from ever helping a movement which automatically assumed they were combative simply because they answered an email. > asking that she do something useful about the real mistreatment of > women. You have no business assuming that she or I do not. I didn't assume anything. Apparently you are assuming a lot. > Why aren't YOU doing something useful about the abuse of women rather > than mocking it in your games? How do you know that I am not? Oh, wait, you don't know. You are just attacking somebody because you think it is cool to do. Ironically your emails are abusing a functionary who couldn't cancel a game even if he wanted to do so. > > I'm thinking you're not likely to see more of my money after this. I > cannot support a company with ethics such as yours who is also so > disrespectful to the concerns of your customers. Sorry that you don't recognize the difference between a game and real life, but that is your choice to make. This game is apparently not for you. > > -- Conrad Hubbard White Wolf Publishing http://www.white-wolf.com Sword & Sorcery http://www.swordsorcery.com "Promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries" - U.S. Constitution (Reply to this)(Thread)

Oh, here's his email - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 03:19 am UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:07 am UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:12 am UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 06:24 am UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - coyotemama, 2005-01-12 07:01 pm UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - thebirdwoman, 2005-01-11 06:20 pm UTC

Re: oh my fucking god - mizuuta, 2005-01-11 05:25 am UTC

chokers 2005-01-11 03:27 am UTC (link)

this is the reply I got to the email I sent earlier today: (1st message) "How is it racist or misogynistic?" (2nd message, sent 14 minutes later) "I'd recommend people that want to do something about actual abuse of women, as opposed to assaulting people because they are mocking the criminals that engage in illegal prostitution, check out this link, and go do something about it: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/08/congo.peacekeepers.sex/ index.html Or is it maybe too difficult to attack real world problems, so you would prefer to attack fictional ones?" um, what? Do I even bother to reply to this? I haven't read all the responses posted above, but I'm going to in a minute. I have to give him credit for his quick replies, although it must be easy to respond when he gives the same answers to everyone. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 03:33 am UTC

(no subject) - chokers, 2005-01-11 04:53 am UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:11 am UTC

	reachingxout 2005-01-11 04:30 am UTC (link)
	My head is exploding. Above in oracleofdoom's letter reply, he said Ironically your emails are abusing a functionary who couldn't cancel a game even if he wanted to do so. So why is everyone wasting time writing him? Why is he the default contact? Who do we need to talk to here? Who CAN cancel the game? That is the question. Can someone find out? (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - heavenscalyx, 2005-01-11 04:45 am UTC

(no subject) - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 04:51 am UTC

(no subject) - reachingxout, 2005-01-11 04:53 am UTC

(no subject) - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 05:00 am UTC

(no subject) - reachingxout, 2005-01-11 05:04 am UTC

(no subject) - heavenscalyx, 2005-01-11 03:16 pm UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:10 am UTC

heavenscalyx 2005-01-11 04:37 am UTC (link)

I'll just say that writing to Conrad is pretty pointless. His responses to the folks on the threads of this post are bog-standard for him, and he apparently hasn't changed at all in the time that he's worked for WW. Or learned fundamental lessons in customer service or marketing. I also note that they've posted a "poll" on their front page, which essentially invalidates anyone who has objections to this product. Escalating to actual people with power is the best idea, methinks. Although I have deep reservations that any attempt to communicate with them will get through their well-entrenched Wall of Privilege. (Reply to this)

	chokers 2005-01-11 04:52 am UTC (link)
	is anyone else emailing with this guy right now? I am, & it is beyond frustrating! since he is no help at all, I asked (politely! please & thank you!) for another email address of someone who has more authority (or maybe I should have requested someone with customer service skills?) & he just said "All that stuff is on the website.". great, thanks. this is unbelievable. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - idemandjustice, 2005-01-11 05:01 am UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:08 am UTC

(no subject) - chokers, 2005-01-11 05:09 am UTC

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:24 am UTC

mizuuta 2005-01-11 05:09 am UTC (link)

Colin (no I won't bother giving him the correct name if he won't bother respecting women), As women, we are able to autonomously decide what is offensive and/or damaging to us. Kindly refrain from making such decisions about women. Your comment, if meant to convince me of the harmless nature of your game, was ineffective. I suggest gaining further training in customer relations, you're rather unskilled in the area. (Reply to this)

	bombyamom 2005-01-11 05:23 am UTC (link)
	I posted, under "Martinlutherkong" on the forums. I made it a vow and a point not to respond hereafter, since the men are probably just posting between pron anyway... (Reply to this)

	candika 2005-01-11 05:53 am UTC (link)
	Do you mind if I post this letter into my journal? I have a lot of roleplayers on my list and they may have encountered it themselves. If so we could all do a mailout and frighten Whitewolf to death. *evil grin* (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-11 05:57 am UTC

madamjolie 2005-01-11 06:02 am UTC (link)

Just so you know, I sent this off, but have yet to get a reply. Hello, I think I should preface this letter with a bit of background on myself. I'm 24 now and I've been a White Wolf fan since I was 15. I'm always impressed at your ability to be innovative and creative with your games. Which is why I'm so disappointed in your choice to market Pimp: The Backhanding. Even though I am not a prostitute and have been lucky enough to never be reduced to that level of need, I do not find the pain of others to be funny or fun. I do not want to use my privilege to buy a game that reduces a very serious issue to nothing more than a joke. I highly doubt you'd market a game called Rapist: The Stalking or Domestic Abuse: The Beating. I'm not sure why this is open season. When every day I deal with kids whose mothers or fathers were forced into prostitution, drugs, and various other topics dealth with in your game and I see the destruction it brings, I can't help but feel like your company is trying to profit from the pain of others. Please, use your influence to do something positive. Or at the very least, don't make the situation worse. Until then, I'm sorry to say that you will be boycotted from my gaming circle and I'll be sure to inform everyone I know of my decision. Thank you for your time, Jolie (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - coyotemama, 2005-01-12 07:00 pm UTC

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