Thomai ([info]metahara) wrote in [info]feminist,
@ 2006-05-21 10:45:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
posted with permission (http://cali4niachef.livejournal.com/87426.html#comments)
Please keep all debate/comments here rather than at the original post.


breastfeeding picture not allowed for default for userpic

(Post a new comment)


[info]angelvomit
2006-05-21 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Bwaaaaahhhh! That makes me so angry.

Their response was just the most idiotic thing I have seen.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]szkradz
2006-05-21 06:35 pm UTC (link)
seriously. "it's not that we think it's inappropriate, it's just that as a private company we are free to determine that it's inappropriate. um, please don't protest, ok?"

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]trinityva, 2006-05-21 07:26 pm UTC

[info]rekedar
2006-05-21 07:04 pm UTC (link)
wow--how utterly sad, and pathetic.

(Reply to this)


[info]peace_corps_grl
2006-05-21 07:12 pm UTC (link)
Wow. I have seen so much worse. How silly and stupid.

m

(Reply to this)


[info]stratyllis
2006-05-21 07:20 pm UTC (link)
I don't really get what the issue is here. They want all default icons be kept clean for legal reasons. Not that I think breastfeeding is unclean, but it does have breast in it. How hard it is to change your icon when posting? Look I'll do it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]goodlookinout
2006-05-21 07:23 pm UTC (link)
"not that I think breatfeeding is unclean"

you yourself just said that they want "all default icons to be kept clean"... so if you dont think breastfeeding is "dirty" then you should understand why it is a matter of principle that this person should not be any means have to change her icon, in the same way that a woman should be able to breastfeed wherever she wants in public and not have to cover her "dirty exposed breasts" from people's eyes!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goodlookinout, 2006-05-21 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 07:43 pm UTC
They aren't going to change their minds. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:39 pm UTC
Re: They aren't going to change their minds. - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:46 pm UTC
just asking - [info]mythomaniac, 2006-05-22 01:58 pm UTC
Re: just asking - [info]dream_rider, 2006-05-22 05:21 pm UTC
Re: just asking - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-22 07:50 pm UTC

[info]peace_corps_grl
2006-05-21 07:24 pm UTC (link)
love your icon... Can I jack it???

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]peace_corps_grl, 2006-05-21 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]peace_corps_grl, 2006-05-21 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-21 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-21 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:13 pm UTC
I expect better in 2006
[info]metahara
2006-05-21 08:35 pm UTC (link)
p.s. if your mother breastfed you and even more so, if she went the extra mile to breasfeed to 24 months(recommended for brain development0, she had to go against societal noprms at the time. If she is anything like me, she'll find the way LJ has handled it 9making it an issue) to be disappointing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: I expect better in 2006 - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:43 pm UTC
Re: I expect better in 2006 - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:49 pm UTC
Re: I expect better in 2006 - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:01 pm UTC
When I nurse I imagine I won't let what other people think of me bother me. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:15 pm UTC
Re: When I nurse I imagine I won't let what other people think of me bother me. - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:26 pm UTC
thank you i appreciate that - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:30 pm UTC
Re: thank you i appreciate that - [info]blimeyzawn1, 2006-05-22 06:11 pm UTC
My mom breastfed me and went through hell to do it. I think it's probably one of the most feminist t - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 06:18 pm UTC
Re: When I nurse I imagine I won't let what other people think of me bother me. - [info]avaloner, 2006-05-22 02:33 am UTC
Re: When I nurse I imagine I won't let what other people think of me bother me. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 02:38 am UTC
Re: I expect better in 2006 - [info]oneofthemnow, 2006-05-21 10:50 pm UTC
i stand corrected. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 11:55 pm UTC
Re: i stand corrected. - [info]oneofthemnow, 2006-05-22 03:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squinting_kitty, 2006-05-22 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-22 01:48 am UTC
oops - [info]squinting_kitty, 2006-05-22 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squinting_kitty, 2006-05-22 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]muliebrity, 2006-05-22 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squinting_kitty, 2006-05-22 02:20 am UTC

[info]idemandjustice
2006-05-22 07:06 pm UTC (link)
But it's okay to breastfeed in public. So how is it not okay to have a default icon displaying something that women are within their rights to do in public?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-22 07:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]idemandjustice, 2006-05-22 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-22 09:05 pm UTC

[info]trinityva
2006-05-21 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Yep. I was one of the write-ins, and got that stupid long-winded response.

(Reply to this)


[info]dancing_moon
2006-05-21 07:58 pm UTC (link)
Bluregh. I'm so tired of this, have seen it all over lj and journalfen.

First of the act of breastfeeding is not the same thing as the image of breastfeeding.

Second, in our cultural context breasts and penises and naked butts are deemed sexual and not appropriate everywhere. So they don't want to have that on their "official" part of the site. We have laws that make exceptions of the "no genitals in public" because there is a very good reason for it - kid needs to eat. But must kid be shown eating on the internet...?

While I know that feminism is all about changing culture and things we dislike this is for me an absolute non-issue. Livejournal will not enforce a huge ban on every breastfeeding icon, unless someone reports them one by one. That's their policy, abuse team only goes in on issues like this once it's been reported.

And I really don't think it's anything to make a fuss about. Anyone can still use the image on all their posts if they want to but not have it as their default.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]stratyllis
2006-05-21 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention that it isn't every breastfeeding icon that wouldn't be allowed either. The ones that don't show nipple or areola are allowed. This is just them enforcing their nudity policy.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
a picture promotes a thousand words - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:28 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-21 08:36 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:44 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-21 08:48 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:51 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-21 08:52 pm UTC
Re: hellloooo - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:03 pm UTC
I don't need a f*cking lecture, thanks. - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:39 pm UTC
I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:50 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:52 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]jennifer0246, 2006-05-23 01:03 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-23 02:58 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:53 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:59 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:05 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:16 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:18 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:22 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:28 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 11:49 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]szkradz, 2006-05-21 09:20 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:31 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]szkradz, 2006-05-21 09:40 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:44 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 11:47 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-22 12:33 am UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]foibey, 2006-05-21 11:04 pm UTC
DING DING DING - [info]squinting_kitty, 2006-05-22 01:35 am UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]idemandjustice, 2006-05-22 07:13 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]four_thorns, 2006-05-21 09:29 pm UTC
true - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 09:32 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]four_thorns, 2006-05-21 09:37 pm UTC
Re: I am a breastfeeding supporter - [info]aki_no_kitsune, 2006-05-23 01:35 pm UTC
nudity? be fricken real - [info]metahara, 2006-05-21 08:31 pm UTC
Re: nudity? be fricken real - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 08:44 pm UTC

[info]squeezypie
2006-05-21 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Cookies for you. =)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]metahara
2006-05-21 08:36 pm UTC (link)
please read the commnts i posted to strattyllis

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]trufflepig
2006-05-21 09:10 pm UTC (link)
well said. that about covers it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]anngwish42
2006-05-22 06:07 am UTC (link)
Nice, except that breasts aren't genitals. They're breasts. That women's breasts are sexualized (especially in the U.S.) while men's aren't is dumb enough to begin with, but that women's breasts should be considered a sexually explicit form of nudity while they're engaged in an entirely non-sexual function is just totally off.

As to the "must kid be shown eating on the internet" angle, I'll be happy to concede that icons showing babies eating is bannably appropriate - the second I see LJAbuse hock a "change your icon or be suspended" warning at a user with a picture of a baby being bottlefed, or a baby/child eating solid food.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anngwish42, 2006-05-22 10:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:33 pm UTC

[info]idemandjustice
2006-05-22 07:11 pm UTC (link)
I feel like I entered the bizarro-world feminist community. You're defending what is obviously a sexist, unequal standard and don't think it's a big deal and we shouldn't get worked up over it?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
I feel like I entered the bizarro-world feminist community - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 07:22 pm UTC
Re: I feel like I entered the bizarro-world feminist community - [info]idemandjustice, 2006-05-22 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]idemandjustice, 2006-05-23 11:51 am UTC

[info]coaldustcanary
2006-05-21 08:02 pm UTC (link)
I think LiveJournal has done a terrible job of responding to the issue originally, but now that they've change the content guidelines for default images to include all nudity as problematic versus "graphically sexual images", I don't think it's unfair any longer. The way the rule was originally worded, however, was awful. Breastfeeding is not "graphically sexual" in any way. However, it is still nudity.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
hellloooo
[info]metahara
2006-05-21 08:30 pm UTC (link)
if less than what is exposed in a bikin top is shown- it does not qualify as nudity.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: hellloooo - [info]coaldustcanary, 2006-05-21 11:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foibey, 2006-05-21 11:11 pm UTC
the concept of lewd - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]coaldustcanary, 2006-05-22 12:35 am UTC
the male response. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 12:59 am UTC
Re: the male response. - [info]coaldustcanary, 2006-05-22 01:46 am UTC
Re: the male response. - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 02:50 am UTC
Re: the male response. - [info]coaldustcanary, 2006-05-22 03:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]foibey, 2006-05-22 08:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 03:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]_stasha, 2006-05-22 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 10:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]_stasha, 2006-05-22 10:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]coaldustcanary, 2006-05-22 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foibey, 2006-05-22 07:58 pm UTC

[info]riot_tori
2006-05-21 08:56 pm UTC (link)
wow.... that is so misogynist and insane, especially since I have used this icon many times and no one has ever objected.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]metahara
2006-05-21 08:59 pm UTC (link)
exactly my point

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]stratyllis
2006-05-21 09:15 pm UTC (link)
A little word from the person who started this.

http://hardvice.livejournal.com/273031.html?thread=2434951#t2434951

(Reply to this) (Thread)
how far we've come, how far to we've go?
[info]metahara
2006-05-21 09:28 pm UTC (link)
so are you saying that this user:
http://cali4niachef.livejournal.com/profile
is bogus and this:
http://cali4niachef.livejournal.com/87426.html

is sensationally motivated?


ok- now im late to class-
regardless of the origin, i've found this discourse to be quite enlightening. it reminds me that so many are not aware of the mulititudes of little battles that have been won for feminine rights..that includes self.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: how far we've come, how far to we've go? - [info]stratyllis, 2006-05-21 09:37 pm UTC
Re: how far we've come, how far to we've go? - [info]szkradz, 2006-05-21 10:04 pm UTC

[info]foibey
2006-05-21 10:56 pm UTC (link)
My first instinct is to respond to the LJ Abuse team's assertions of misogynistic values with ridicule, so I made this not entirely big or clever, but totally righteous icon (with the help of a Public Domain image from wikipedia) and set it to my default.

When the LJ community is full of all sorts of scantily clad pro-ana "thinspiration" junk in people's icons it's ridiculous that they see fit to target someone with an icon of nursing a child.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]vahinko
2006-05-22 07:47 am UTC (link)
When the LJ community is full of all sorts of scantily clad pro-ana "thinspiration" junk in people's icons it's ridiculous that they see fit to target someone with an icon of nursing a child.

my thoughts exactly. i think it's very important to take into consideration the context of the nudity.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
(no subject) - [info]seph_hazard, 2006-05-22 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foibey, 2006-05-22 08:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]foibey, 2006-05-22 10:13 pm UTC

[info]haloedheartbeat
2006-05-21 11:19 pm UTC (link)
whoever reported that as obscene must be EXREMELY uncomfortable with natural and normal acts (and images of acts) of the mother. breastfeeding is so touchy these days, i don't understand it because a lot of women choose to do it. i've seen women complain when other women breastfeed in the women's restroom in the mall or a store. i was once in sak's, and they have those huge bathrooms with couches and such, and a woman was breastfeeding, and when i was washing my hands an employee came in and said someone complained about her nursing and could she please stop and do it somewhere else. WTF.

they've also made these little lactating areas in some stores/malls that are away from everything else, because apparently breastfeeding is so taboo now.

people piss me of so much sometimes, in LJ and real life.

i did see a woman breastfeeding in a quiet area of a food court at night in a mall, but she was far off in the corner where there was no one sitting or hanging around. it made me a little happier knowing no one bothered her about it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]four_thorns
2006-05-22 12:35 am UTC (link)
they've also made these little lactating areas in some stores/malls that are away from everything else, because apparently breastfeeding is so taboo now.

unless they're forcing women to use those areas, i don't think it's a statement about breastfeeding being taboo. i think if i were a mom, i might be a little uncomfortable doing it in public, considering how sexualized and fetishized the breasts are in society, and i'd appreciate having a place with a little privacy and quiet, where men couldn't potentially ogle me.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
IF - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 12:53 am UTC
Re: IF - [info]four_thorns, 2006-05-22 01:03 am UTC
Re: IF - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 02:31 am UTC
Re: IF - [info]four_thorns, 2006-05-22 01:12 am UTC
Re: IF - [info]metahara, 2006-05-22 02:35 am UTC
Re: IF - [info]thegreatcurve, 2006-05-22 02:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]haloedheartbeat, 2006-05-22 02:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]haloedheartbeat, 2006-05-22 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancing_moon, 2006-05-22 05:35 am UTC

[info]evil_laugher
2006-05-21 11:34 pm UTC (link)
B-feeding doesn't bother me much, but still



I cannot say I'm unhappy to see them go [especially since they're not really going].

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]foibey
2006-05-21 11:37 pm UTC (link)
So it's cool for it to be stopped on grounds of taste?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]evil_laugher, 2006-05-21 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evil_laugher, 2006-05-22 12:03 am UTC

[info]hexennacht
2006-05-22 01:48 am UTC (link)
Because these icons can be seen in places on the site where one would not reasonably expect to find sexually explicit content, such as user directories and searches, they must not contain material which may be considered inappropriate for viewing in certain settings.

So breastfeeding is sexually explicit, eh? Silly me! I thought it was anything BUT sexual! I sure am glad Carson is around to tell me that even when a woman is feeding her infant, she's nothing but a fucktoy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]stratyllis
2006-05-22 01:50 am UTC (link)
They changes the TOS to say nudity instead of sexually explicit.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]hexennacht, 2006-05-22 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]szkradz, 2006-05-22 06:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hexennacht, 2006-05-22 06:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]szkradz, 2006-05-22 06:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hexennacht, 2006-05-24 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hexennacht, 2006-05-24 04:10 am UTC
mod note
[info]squinting_kitty
2006-05-22 06:43 am UTC (link)
We require that users obtain permission before posting links to other people's journals as this could potentially put [info]feminist in violation of the Livejournal TOS. As such, your post is currently in violation of our rules.

From our userinfo:
When linking to a personal livejournal, members are required to obtain the permission of the original author, and to indicate that they've done so in their post to this community.

You have two options:

  • If you DID receive permission to link to the journal in question, edit your post to say that you did receive permission.

  • If you did NOT receive permission, remove the link to zir journal and make a summary instead (without linking to zir journal).

    Email us if you have any questions.

    mods {at} mastication {dot} net
    (Click for a link.)

    (Replies frozen)

    •

    Create an Account
    Forgot your login or password?
    Login w/ OpenID
    English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…