feminist: Prostitutes Call for A Ban on GTAI under

Corpo Santo (

ambienceman) wrote in

feminist,
@ 2006-02-16 00:40:00

Current music:

Becoming X - Sneaker Pimps - Becoming X

Prostitutes Call for A Ban on GTA

I understand their concern, but I REAAAALY disagree with such stringent censorship like banning the sale of a game because of its mature and un-PC content. To me, that is within the bounds of creative and artistic freedom.

I'm curious what you all think about this.

EDIT:

After reading the press release on the SWO website, it's obvious that they are not asking for a ban of the game, for they portray themselves as anti-censorship.. The Gamespot article uses the word "ban" on more than one occasion. I guess this changes the scope of the post now.

(Post a new comment)

snowowl
2006-02-16 05:46 am UTC (link)

I agree with you. We can't just sick the government on any ideas we don't like. When you open that door, there's no stopping censorship and you may very well find that you are the one whose ideas are seen as dangerous and unpopular.

I think that sex workers exercise their rights for a boycott, gaining attention to the issue through media coverage and the like. But in the end, these changes need to happen primarily on a very individual and cultural level. Banning the game won't "win" anything for our cause.

(Reply to this)

	stilken 2006-02-16 06:28 am UTC (link)
	Um, the game is horrible. You can have sex with a prositute, and then shoot her. How is that okay? It teaches 12 year olds that they should grow up to shoot women. I don't think GTA is something that anyone should be worried about defending. (Reply to this)(Thread)

robynchick
2006-02-16 06:52 am UTC (link)

"I don't think GTA is something that anyone should be worried about defending."

If we let them ban 1 'offensive' thing, what's to stop them from banning the rest of them? Once there is a legal precedent set it opens up the opportunity to ban other things... For instance, what about literature that contains rape, nudity or violence?

Several campaigns are already being run by governmental organizations against erotic literature websites on the legal grounds that they are obscene...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stilken 2006-02-16 07:49 pm UTC (link)
	They're not trying to ban it, they're asking parents to boycott it. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask, considering the content. Im not sure what about my comment, which pretty much said 'this game is horrifying' made 6 people think I was in favor of banning it, but whatever. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ambienceman
2006-02-16 06:54 am UTC (link)

"It teaches 12 year olds that they should grow up to shoot women."

How so? First off, the game is marked off as mature. I think the controls of its availability should be strengthened (a 12 y/o shoudln't be able to walk into EB and purchase it), but I don't think the game should be banned. It's been marked for a mature audience. The themes are mature; the language is mature, etc... The many children have the game is not the creators fault. It is the fault of the parents. Why should others lose out on a game because parents allow their children to play these games?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stilken 2006-02-16 07:54 pm UTC (link)
	1)why do you think that being marked as MA means that kids wont get their hands on it? They have parents. 2) They're not trying to ban it! I did not advocate banning anything. I just said that the game is horrible and I don't think it should be high on our list of important freedoms to defend, in any case. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

re: 1)

likeawoman
2006-02-16 08:13 pm UTC (link)

what would you suggest exactly? that all media materials unsuitable for children be eliminated? there will always be bad parents, those who allow their children things that are inappropriate as well as those who so neglect their children that they become violent criminals. what would you suggest changing about GTA and media of the like so that the world is sufficiently safe and sanitized for children? you seem to have a lot of complaints, bold and sweeping ones, so what are your solutions?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: 1)

stilken
2006-02-17 06:30 am UTC (link)

Im not advocating banning/eliminating it it! I don't have a solution. I also don't have 'a lot of complaints', just a complaint with a game that depicts those levels of violence, even if they are imitating life. I don't think thats a bold complaint, actually I would have thought it was a fairly natural one. Im not sure why my comments pissed you off so much, but I extend my apologies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: 1)

likeawoman
2006-02-17 12:29 pm UTC (link)

if nything "pissed me off" it was your whole "of course... why would anyone defend this" attitude. personally, I'm not especially fond of having the proper feminist attitudes dictated to me, and I'm not especially fond of people presuming my opinions either. if you don't like the game, super, don't buy it, but perhaps you should think a bit harder about how "obvious" your opinion/the "right" opinion is, before you make such casually dismissive statements.

it's kind of frustrating, the sort of logical leaps you made while denouncing the game, and moreso that you just assumed everyone was along for the ride.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: 1)

stilken
2006-02-27 08:17 am UTC (link)

You really read a lot into what I said that wasn't there. 1) I don't think the game is worth defending 2) therefore I don't think it is worth anyone's time to defend it, as I believe there are more important things to defend 3) I don't think that everyone agrees with me on that point 4) I don't think it should be banned, of course, but if it were I wouldn't be upset, slightly indignant becuase it would constitute censorship, but not upset about it 5) I suppose it is all well and good that some people do think it is worth defending, as otherwise we would have selective freedom of whatever category games fall under, which is no good.

I really didn't post that comment trying to offend anyone. It was just a throwaway comment with my opinion. I still don't think there was anything wrong with what I said (for the reasons outlined above). but, like I said, I really wasn't looking to offend anyone or casually dismiss any views that didn't agree with mine. please understand that that was not my intention.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	ambienceman 2006-02-16 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	1.) I didn't imply that children can't get their hands on it. "They have parents" That's my fault. Blame them, not the game developers. 2.) I realised post replying to you that Gamepot slandered SWOP. Sorry 'bout that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

stilken
2006-02-17 06:33 am UTC (link)

I do blame the parents, I just think its more realistic to get the game developers to stop depicting things like that than to expect parents across the country to start being more concientious. However, I seem to have stumbled across a pocket of GTA fans and it seems like you all would be pissed if they stopped making it, so our ideals are different, so we seem to disagree at a base level.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ambienceman 2006-02-17 06:41 am UTC (link)
	I'm not a "fan" of the game. I don't hate it, nor do I exhalt it. I just think that such a move to change the developers' frame of mind in creating these games is the wrong way to go about it. SWOP's campaign is perfectly acceptable to me. They want people to vote against Rockstar Games with their dollars. That's fine in my book. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stilken 2006-02-17 06:48 am UTC (link)
	Im not sure what you mean by change their "frame of mind." Like, have them change the games before society changes? If thats what you mean, well... I dunno. I think it would be nice if they did, because society changes so slowly and doesn't really need the footdragging towards racism and sexism that things like gta provide, in part. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stilken 2006-02-17 06:49 am UTC (link)
	also, Im about to go to bed and won't be back at my computer for over a week, which effectively shuts down this conversation. sorry! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ambienceman 2006-02-16 08:34 pm UTC (link)
	That's my point* (Reply to this)(Parent)

four_thorns
2006-02-16 07:05 am UTC (link)

except that it's not a game for 12 year olds, it's very clearly labelled "Mature" (actually, now's it's "adults only") and isn't supposed to be sold to children. plus, the game costs $50, which isn't exactly a week's allowance for any 12 year olds i know. if 12 year olds have this game, it's because their parents aren't reading labels and paying attention to what their kids are doing.

i have a lot of issues with GTA, and i'm not necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say, but i do think it's important to realize that this game is NOT intended for children, it's intended for adults. i think a lot of times people think of all video games as being "for kids", because when they first came out in the 80s, they were, but as those kids have grown up, their interest in video games has continued, and the game developers have made more mature games to correspond to their increasingly mature audience. i don't think it's the fault of game companies that these games are getting into the hands of kids, i think it's the fault of parents who don't read labels and assume that because it's a video game, it must be for kids.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

stilken
2006-02-16 08:04 pm UTC (link)

okay, children have parents. most parents dont pay attention, they just get whatever game the kid wants for christmas because they're friends have it and they don't know the content. so, lots of kids have it. maybe they're not supposed to, but thats totally beside the point. I don't know... I don't think we can just blame it on parents. My parents are the most concientious parents in the world and they still got my brother some stupid drag racing game (not gta, I'd throw a shit fit), which I watch him play and see that the police are ridiculously villified and you get points the more money you cost the city by breaking shit. Most parents, though, are even less concious of what they get their kids, they just buy it.

Im not advocating censorship, I just don't think that gta is something a feminist community should get all worked up about defending, because its pretty disgusting. in my opinion.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

likeawoman
2006-02-16 04:42 pm UTC (link)

It teaches 12 year olds that they should grow up to shoot women.

if a 12 year old is playing a game like this, he/she is probably already in trouble.

I AM worried about defending it. I am worried about a world where entertainment is all strained through the "won't somebody please think of the children" filter. I am an adult, I am a feminist, and if I want to play GTA or watch porn or read Bukowski, I don't see why it should be anyone's business. I don't shoot prostitutes, car jack people, commit violent crimes, rob people, commit sexual assault, scream derogatory things at people... shit I've never even sold drugs. If people would raise their kids, pay attention to what they're kids are exposed to, and most importantly, teach their children what is right and what is not, then something like a videogame would hardly sway them to violence and misogyny.

people have been killing and assaulting prostitutes as long as there have been prostitutes. the game is art imitating life, not the other way around. should prostitutes be safe and protected as anyone is at the place of work? yes! is elminating media that includes violence against prostitutes going to make that happen? clearly not.

perhaps, instead of attacking the symptoms, we should be attacking the problem. if prostitutes were rehumanized, protected, respected and incorporated into society in the way that any working adult is, and if people were raised in such a way that it wasn't "okay" to cause harm to and dehumanize women based on their sexual choices, then this media, as well as the violence that it fictionalizes, would become obsolete.

and frankly, would you eliminate ALL media that depicts such acts or are you just cherry picking among easy targets? shall we eliminate all cultural artifacts that contain some element that is offensive? as a literature major, having read more books than I could count, it frightens me to think that one could use the rationale used to attack GTA to attack everyone from Joyce to Shakespeare to Capote to basically 3/4 of the canon. where is the line, and what is the logic behind it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	truckers_child 2006-02-16 08:02 pm UTC (link)
	if prostitutes were rehumanized, protected, respected and incorporated into society in the way that any working adult is..... THANK YOU!!! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stilken 2006-02-17 06:23 am UTC (link)
	Im not advocating banning it. I just.. am not a fan of the game, and I think a boycott is an A+ idea. I agree about attacking the root, as well. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	blue_kamehame 2006-02-16 05:09 pm UTC (link)
	it's the principle of the thing. you just can't ban it, or else it opens the floodgates of LEGALLY defining what is 'moral' and 'immoral'--and the gov't has never been too great on that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	robynchick 2006-02-16 06:49 am UTC (link)
	Actually, they haven't asked for a ban. They are putting out a plea to gamers and parents to boycott the game to show the industry what sorts of games they want to play. They state that they are actively anti-censorship. It's another case of media manipulation perhaps? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	ambienceman 2006-02-16 07:02 am UTC (link)
	After reading the press release on the SWO website, I realise you are right. What they are asking for is reasonable. It's like a boycott to the RIAA labels. I guess I should erase the post? Or is that not allowed? Whatever. I'll modify the post. Thanks for pointing this out, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)

dysgr8mystake
2006-02-16 07:00 am UTC (link)

I wouldn't mind a widespread boycott. I HATE THAT GAME. First off, I find it incredibly mind-numbing and I can't get into the idea of it at all. Secondly, the racism and sexism is pretty nasty. Thirdly, I'm not generally a big fan of shooting cops. Fourth, uhm, well, there are a lot of numbers on this list. How about we just say I hate the game?

i'm all for a boycott. I never bought that piece of shit.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	ambienceman 2006-02-16 07:09 am UTC (link)
	I am all for your expression to vote with your dollars. Just as long as we don't call on politicians to do the bidding for us. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	timetokill 2006-02-16 08:33 am UTC (link)
	Agreed. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Deleted post)

	four_thorns 2006-02-16 07:04 am UTC (link)
	this was supposed to be in response to stilken, so i'm deleting and re-posting in the right place. sorry. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	uberpiratewench 2006-02-16 07:09 am UTC (link)
	This and a number of things about the game have always bothered me. All in all, I thing it's a fun game and I do enjoy playing it (though I refuse to buy my own copy) but couldnt they have a similar game with less sexist/racism? Its purely gratuitous (Reply to this)(Thread)

	foursixths 2006-02-16 07:31 am UTC (link)
	I thought the appeal of the game was supposed to be the gratuitous violence. My main question would be whether playing games like this serves as a way of venting violence, or actually promoting it. I have no idea what the answer is. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hexennacht
2006-02-16 07:46 am UTC (link)

I, for one, derive immense pleasure from cutting person-shaped pixels down with chainsaw-shaped pixels when I'm very cross. I am not a violent person by any means (despite having violence forced upon me for most of my young life).

That said, a lot of what's in the game is atrocious, but I don't believe that the game is attempting to portray the scenarios and actions you can take as okay in the real world. So basically, I agree with your comment and am elaborating 'cause I can.

Boycotting is perfectly fine. I can't imagine how prostitutes wouldn't object to that particular facet of the games. It's pretty repulsive. But I personally do not think it's okay to regulate that sort of thing. The game is, as has been mentioned already, marked for adults only. There's only so much you can do to prevent minors from playing games without infringing on adults' rights.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	angelvomit 2006-02-16 01:30 pm UTC (link)
	As far as venting violence goes, I can tell you from my little communications student point of view that studies on the catharsis hypothesis have shown it to be unfounded. The reason that certain presentations can reduce the likelyhood of user aggression is because those presentations are showing violence as inappropriate, or "turning off" the viewer. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	madamjolie 2006-02-16 02:10 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but they also found the "violence causes violence" hypothesis to be a chicken and egg deal. They have no idea if violent media makes people violent or if violent people are attracted to violent media. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	angelvomit 2006-02-16 03:03 pm UTC (link)
	I think the concensus is currently something like violent media has the potential to "inspire" those already prone to aggression and violence. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	angelvomit 2006-02-16 03:04 pm UTC (link)
	oops. Certain presentations of violence in media I mean. (Reply to this)(Parent)

madamjolie
2006-02-16 02:09 pm UTC (link)

I've played it. I don't particularly like it, as I found the controls to be clunky, but I remember when GTA was on my old computer and your car was just a little box and there was a sky view *waves cane*.

I can tell you that in ten years of knowing about GTA and toodling around with it, I've never gone out and shot a cop.

I do enjoy violent games. I got my first Nintendo at the age of 6, I've been playing for a long time. I don't know about you, but a zombie hunt totally takes the edge off a bad day. It might be because, hey, you know, shooting zombies! or because it's an activity that uses certain sections of my brain. But I can't say I ever started a viral genocide, either. Nor have I gone out and chopped someone's arm off with a chainsaw.

I mean,I don't even get mad in my every day life, let alone violent. They didn't affect me all that much.

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	blue_kamehame 2006-02-16 05:13 pm UTC (link)
	my brother owned gta vice city. i never bothered actually playing the game, just stole cars and hit pedestrians until the swat teams got me. i haven't developed any real life desire to have a police chase that ends in my car exploding... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

madamjolie
2006-02-16 05:22 pm UTC (link)

You know, I've never met anyone who actually plays the game as in completing the missions.

Everyone I know who plays it gets a car and drives around listening to the radio until they explode.

I have a mental block about some shooting games however. I like Doom. I will play House of the Dead like it's nobody's business (what can I say, y0, zombies. I can't play the hunting games. I cannot bring myself to shoot a turkey.

Unless it's a zombie turkey.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	timetokill 2006-02-16 08:32 am UTC (link)
	Well they could, and then they'd wonder why it didn't sell while GTA was still flying off of the shelves. Of course, they'd know the answer: Nobody wants a watered-down GTA. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lifeisacabaret 2006-02-16 07:26 am UTC (link)
	I don't agree with bans, but my best friend and I have chosen not to allow our teenage sons to play GTA because of its content... not out of protectionism, but more out of political and personal protest. (Reply to this)

timetokill
2006-02-16 08:36 am UTC (link)

I would really love to know the number of people who oppose GTA and are pushing for legislation against it who have actually played the game and actually know about its nature and content before condemning it.

Also, the game was clearly labeled as mature, and now it's Adults Only. Although it could be argued that kids were marketed to despite the M rating, the fact is they shouldn't have been able to buy the game themselves, since most stores enforce a policy of checking ID before selling M-rated games. And really, when it comes down to it, we know it's mostly parents buying their kids this game and then complaining about how everyone else isn't picking up the slack for their crappy parenting.

(Reply to this)

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