callme_archy ([info]callme_archy) wrote in [info]feminist,
@ 2005-11-06 07:45:00
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Current mood: annoyed

*headdesk*
Last night, my cousin and I met to go watch "North Country," the movie based on the book "Class Action." I'd been looking forward to the movie, because the book made me madder than anything I've ever read - her harassment, and the attitude of the courts. To give some background, my (female) cousin and I grew up on the Iron Range, where the incident took place. So believe me when I say we're well acquainted with those sorts of attitudes.

Her comment after the movie? "I don't think women belong in the mines."
Me: *incredulous look* "Really?"
Her: "Well, or they need to have thicker skin than that lady. Roll with the punches."
Me: *too dumbstruck to say anything*
Her: "Like my daddy's work (he works at a local foundry), they pay a $5,000 fine each year so they don't have to hire women. They don't last."

I wanted to yell, "Did we see the same effing movie? Did you miss the whole POINT????"

Uggggghhhh.

*resumes headdesking*


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[info]delphyne_
2005-11-06 02:57 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like she's been brainwashed by daddy. It's why a lot of people hold on to their sexism, going against it would mean going against their parents.

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[info]foursixths
2005-11-06 03:14 pm UTC (link)
i've tried using art or other supportive media like this to spark feminist discussion among my real life peers.

it's hard, though, when "sin city" counts as a valuable piece of pop art, and i can't even get them to read from margin to center.

sometimes just keeping dialogue going for a long time, (i'm talking a sometimes-suspended weeks long ongoing conversation here), can eventually lead to greater understanding. a lot of people simply aren't familiar with all relevant information, and they can make some pretty crazy statements, like your friend did.

keep trying, though.

activism is everyday life.

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[info]blottedcopybook
2005-11-06 03:24 pm UTC (link)
a lot of people simply aren't familiar with all relevant information, and they can make some pretty crazy statements, like your friend did.

So scarily true. It honestly shocks me everytime I speak to someone who tells me that feminism is irrelevant because we don't have to deal with gender bias anymore.

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[info]tlcbird
2005-11-06 03:35 pm UTC (link)
I like the idea of using art to try to help some of these discussions. What sort of things do you turn to the most? I ask because I've come to an impass of sorts, not just at the shelter where I volunteer, but in daily life and at my paying job (I work in an office...IT company). The established views of women and gender roles are so ingrained and they have their own velocity, and I started out just paring back to try to pick my battles but my god now I just feel like it's a meteor shower of ignorance some days.

I've all but stopped trying to address the issues in conversation...it does no good. People get defensive and the discussion goes into the crapper. Same with racism.

I've worked with poetry sometimes...but, say, for a small corporate work environment ... what kind of things do you think would be helpful tools against that humdrum "we are normal" groupthink and the run-of-the-mill email joke forwards that make it thru the rounds?


If my question is rambly and makes no sense, I blame my lack of coffee. Yet.

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[info]foursixths
2005-11-06 03:46 pm UTC (link)
in my experience, the easiest art mediums to use for this purpose are music, sculpture, or paintings. something visceral which first invokes a non-intellectual response. i ask someone what their first reaction was, and stress that i want their first gut reaction, and then i go from there. i tell them my first response, and then my thought process after that, and i explain to them what i got out of the overall experience. then we listen or look again, and the discussion evolves.

music has been the most valuable for me personally because i love music, and i have a huge variety of musical interests as far as genres and artists. i try to find songs or artists that the person i want to talk to would like, but would still serve the purposes of promoting feminist discussion.

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[info]pinkdramon
2005-11-06 10:15 pm UTC (link)
I like the idea of using art to try to help some of these discussions. What sort of things do you turn to the most?

I turn to Political Cartoons.
Sometimes they address feminism, from either side - you can find ones that are for or against feminism. Both can be quite bitey. I look to them on a lot of different matters in addition to feminism, too.

For example, here's Ann Telnae's collection of women's issues Political Toons: Click here for cartoons.
And here's Mikhaela's web site too.

There are a relatively few female political cartoonists out there. They are among those few.

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[info]delicata77
2005-11-06 09:58 pm UTC (link)
it's hard, though, when "sin city" counts as a valuable piece of pop art, and i can't even get them to read from margin to center.

I totally hear you on that one.
It's really sad.

And you are so right about activism.
It's true.


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[info]0xmahliax0
2005-11-06 07:50 pm UTC (link)
I know that when I was younger I used to think the same thing once in a while: "She should just roll with the punches", i.e., that's just the way it is so we should learn to suck it up and deal with it.

When I thought this, at its root was helplessness. Patriarchy and sexism is SUCH a huge, complicated problem that at times it overwhelmed me and I considered it unsolvable, so why bother with getting everyone's hopes up? I had tried and tried to get men to see me as an equal deserving of respect, and again and again it had failed, so rather than thinking that I failed, it was better to think that it was part of the nature of men and women and therefore unchangable.

Feminism is hard work. Trying to shift an entire paridigm can be very intimidating. I'm not trying to make excuses for her, but it is interesting to think about how she's learned that sexism is ok and natural...because to suddenly realize that it is NOT ok and it is NOT natural is to suddenly face a huge problem that you really didn't want to deal with. For some people I think they choose to shrug things off because they don't want to feel the rage that comes with understanding.

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[info]crafting_change
2005-11-07 09:26 pm UTC (link)
oh yuck.

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