tattoos and femininity ideals
This past weekend, the Women's Studies department at my university held a conference, and one of the presenters read a paper that she'd written about the female tattooed body. She talked about some historical aspects of tattooing and how she believes that tattooing has been co-opted by mainstream culture and has therefore lost a lot of its spiritual meaning. She also commented on how because tattooing has traditionally been viewed as a male-only venture, women who do get tattoos feel compelled to:

a) get a tattoo with traditionally "feminine" imagery; e.g. a flower or a butterfly
b) get a tattoo that can be easily concealed, e.g. on the lower back, so as not to compromise femininity

I've noticed that this is largely true, and I found the paper quite interesting. While many women may not explicitly be choosing tattoos based on this reasoning, it seems like women, when considering tattoo designs and placement, have really been influenced by what society expects a woman's body to look like. Comments?

(cross-posted to tattoo_ink)

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bluebuckeye 2005-03-22 09:25 pm UTC (link)

I know that my current job and future job prospects were a huge factor on deciding where to get my first tattoo. I didn't want to put it somewhere that would be visible with normal business clothes on, otherwise I might have been fired from my previous job and I might never have gotten my current job. I got my tattoo because I liked it. I don't remember thinking "wow I must get a feminine tattoo" when I got it. I plan on getting some more later on that are a little more personal, and are in places that are a little more visible. But again, I don't really think that society has influenced where and what I should get them. I understand the idea that women can be influenced by society and sometimes do things because they think they should or that they need to be feminine or whatever, but every time I hear that I get offended. It comes off as women being ignorant and gullible. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but that's how I take it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	detestament 2005-03-22 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	Same here - all of mine are pretty visible, and none are typically feminine. My first was on the back of my neck, above where a typical shirt collar would lie. I guess I don't really accept the premises of this argument. There aren't many places to get tattoos that aren't generally concealed by clothes anyway. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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(no subject) - brine_wings, 2005-03-23 12:48 am UTC

	ratherberucking 2005-03-22 09:30 pm UTC (link)
	I think more people who get tats in easily concealed places do it for professional reasons. this phenomenon transcends gender. (Reply to this) (Thread)

bikinikiller 2005-03-22 09:36 pm UTC (link)

i totally agree. i had a male english teacher who concealed his tattoos because he didn't want the administration on his case. i think that the "feminine" tattoo is more about your first tattoo and not knowing what you want and so choosing something you think would be pleasant to live with, i.e. a flower or a butterfly. the women i know with more than one tattoo or who thought a lot about what they wanted in a tattoo didn't get traditionally feminine tattoos. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - ratherberucking, 2005-03-22 10:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - borrowedwings, 2005-03-22 10:45 pm UTC

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(no subject) - redstar826, 2005-03-23 12:48 am UTC

kerikeri 2005-03-22 09:33 pm UTC (link)

I can't really comment on point a, but as for point b, the choice to get a tattoo in an inconspicuous place may have more to do with the individual's desire to enter a career where visible tattoos won't be well-received than with "not compromising femininity." In many fields, conspicuous body modifications (tattoos as well as piercings, unnaturally colored hair, etc.) are seen as unprofessional. Also, this may be anecdotal, but it seems like a wider variety of "types" of women are open to the idea of getting tattoos than men. When I think of tattooed men, I tend to think of men from certain subcultures-- punks, rockers, bikers, etc. The same limitations don't seem to apply to women, which may have something to do with the higher percentage of women who get inconspicuous tattoos-- perhaps it's just that the sort of men who tend to get tattoos aren't as concerned with making themselves look socially acceptable for your typical career in the business world. Men who do have those goals in mind just don't get tattoos, while career-minded women still have the option of getting an easily-concealed one. It's still an interesting gender difference, but I'm not sure how much it has to do with tattoos being considered "unfeminine"-- in fact, it seems quite the opposite, since women from all subcultures and all walks of life get them, and it doesn't seem that the same is necessarily true of men. (I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything; this is just what I've observed, and I'm interested to know if other people's observations have been similar.) (Reply to this)

dysgr8mystake 2005-03-22 09:36 pm UTC (link)

My sister's husband has three; a dragon on one upper arm, a tribal symbol on the other upper arm, and a cross directly over his heart. All of these are placed, ot some extent, so that he could wear a short-sleeved business shirt and the tats would still be hidden. It's somewhat genderized, but I think it has less to do with the acceptance of the tattoos than the imagrey the people themselves want. Most of the girls I know with so-called 'girly' tattoos actually honesty absolutely love dolphins or butterflies or unicorns or whatever, and have seen pictures of other girls with lower-back or -hip tattoos and thought the tats looked prettiest there. The tattoo I'm planning will be on my front left hip... visible only if I wear low-slung pants and a high-cut shirt. It's not even a professional thing... mostly because my tattoo will be the kind of personal message I dont want everyone and their brother asking me about. (Reply to this)

zyada 2005-03-22 09:37 pm UTC (link)

I'm curious if this person actually asked anyone about their motives re tattoo designs. I've seen women with non-feminine visible tattoos, with non-feminine non-visible tattoos, and feminine tattoos both visible and non-visible. I've also noticed that women are more likely to be interested in what is considered "feminine" - more likely to my observation because of the pressure on men to be manly that the pressure on women to be womanly. And while tattooing is more mainstream than it was, it still seems to me to be somewhat counter-culture. If I were to get a tattoo, it would be where it could easily be covered up, so that I didn't have to show it in a situation where I didn't want it visible. Since women's fashions tend to show more skin than mens' fashions, that limits the areas where I would put a tattoo. (However, I don't get a tattoo because there are somedays that I don't want to be a tattooed person - it just depends on my mood.) (Reply to this)

jackiesadork 2005-03-22 09:38 pm UTC (link)

Hmm, I've never really took to noticing placement and subject matter of only-female-tattoos. At my school (MassCollege of Art) it seriously seems like everyone has a tattoo-either for personal reasons and/or the tattoo fad that is going on...from the female tattoos I have seen, little to none have been discreet and "feminine." But, I will start trying to notice more. I actually have a tattoo and it's the symbol for female..its brown and about an inch long on the outside part of my wrist (haha, kind of hard to describe the placement.) I got mine about a year ago and it has meaning to me. I've never been a mainstream type of person and the fad didn't sway my decision...nor was I worried about it being in a non-discreet place. Personally, I don't want to work anywhere thats going to bitch about a little tattoo, ya know? (Reply to this)

quitelife00 2005-03-22 09:38 pm UTC (link)

Some of the (female) teachers at my high school were discussing this at lunch. They were discussing, in particular, a womyn who had a big tattoo of a flower across kais back. As a bridesmaid at a wedding, kai wore the same backless dress as the other bridesmaids. The aforementioned teachers (including a self-proclaimed feminist) expressed disapproving whispers about this. I despise double standards. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	dysgr8mystake 2005-03-22 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	Obviously, the bride didn't mind or she would have chosen a non-backless dress... to me, tattoos should become so much a part of your body that it shouldn't matter if they show... it's no different than showing your bare back in a dress, tattoo-less. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - omuse, 2005-03-22 11:29 pm UTC

(no subject) - pepperedmoth, 2005-03-23 02:39 pm UTC

(no subject) - dancingdrew, 2005-03-23 04:44 pm UTC

(no subject) - nosmokegirl, 2005-03-23 06:30 am UTC

skirmishgirl 2005-03-22 09:39 pm UTC (link)

I have 4 tattoos, and a fifth one coming in the next couple of weeks. My first was on my back, mostly to be hidden. Not, however, for femininity's sake, but because I was scared to death of what my parents would think. I have 2 on my right ankle, neither feminine or hidden. Last summer I also got a large one on my upper arm (my icon, for reference). While on a professional level I will probably never wear anything sleevless again because of it, I made the choice for myself. My next one will be on the back of my calf, also a relatively obvious area. While much of this presenters arguments may be "true", I would have two questions for her. 1) Did she delve into men getting "manly" tattoos? I've seen plenty of males and females with daggers, knives, swallows and hearts with "mom" over them. What constitutes a female tattoo? 2) Isn't there some stereotypiing going on here? There's a lj community, ihearttattoos, where people do nothing but post their new work. While there is a fair share of butterflies, etc., lots of women there (and there are 2000+ members) get non-feminine tattoos, and in really obvious places. Just because the "mainstream" gets involved in something, like tattoos, doesn't necessarily mean all "spiritual" meaning is lost for others. I got my tattoos where I got them for personal reasons, as do many other folks I know. Or, perhaps the presenter has some tattoos, and is upset that the "meaning" is lost because so many other people have ink as well. I'm curious if she addressed that, or the number of women she interviewed about their tattoos. Just my 2 cents. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	meredith_mae 2005-03-22 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	Interesting. My brother showed up at my mom's birthday dinner 2 years ago with a tattoo on his lower left arm. As he always wears short t-shirts, he didn't seem to mind what our parents would think. That might be individual, though. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - skirmishgirl, 2005-03-22 10:38 pm UTC

(no subject) - likeawoman, 2005-03-22 11:58 pm UTC

(no subject) - skirmishgirl, 2005-03-23 12:10 am UTC

easilyirritable 2005-03-22 09:39 pm UTC (link)

My tattoo is on my lower back. I got it there way before it was the place for girls to have a tattoo. I chose that location because I was concerned about future job prospects, not because I was concerned about being unfeminine. I liked the location, too, because it was sexy without being obvious, without being all LOOKATMEIHAVEATATTOOSEESEESEE!!!! This way I can choose who gets to see it and who doesn't, and when people do accidentally see it, it's more of a surprise, like, wow, I never would have pegged you as someone with a tattoo. As much as I like to look at ladies with prominently displayed ink, I know that such a look is not at all my style. I tend to be more subtle and subdued in every aspect of my appearance, from clothing to hair color. This is primarily because I want to avoid the sort of snap-judgements that people tend to issue upon meeting someone with funky hair, prominent tattoos and piercings. It's not right that people make these judgements, but they do, and I'm not really interested in closing any potential doors that might help me down the road in terms of my career, my art, my education or my activism. So I guess one could say that my tattoo placement has been influenced by society, but not in the way that you are postulating. (At the same time, I think you are right on about many, many other girls.) (Reply to this)

	belladonnalin 2005-03-22 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	Out of interest, who was the person presenting? I'm also an academic and one of my areas of focus is the female tattooed body, though I'm using different theoretical tools. Thanks. (Reply to this) (Thread)

belladonnalin 2005-03-22 09:46 pm UTC (link)

Damned posting before I'm done. Into the meat of the post, I have four tattoos. Two are almsot always concealed (my lower back and my shoulder), but they're also more than six years old. The other two are quite visible (upper arms below the 1/4 sleeve mark). I think that the combination of gender and gender ideals obviously has a huge influence both on what wymyn decide to have tattooed on our bodies and where we choose to have it tattooed. I actually find it interesting that tattoing, an art and practice historically associated with masculinity, has been incorporated into feminity in some ways. Not in all ways, certainly, but I think that there is a developing idea of femininity that includes certain KINDS of tattoos - the very kinds that this presenter spoke of. This is the focus of my work, actually. I think that the acceptance of tattooing within certain ideas of feminity actually helps define the boundaries of acceptable femininity. It's not just co-optation, it's using wymyn's bodies to determine the places where we DO or do NOT fit within gender stereotypes. As for the prominent Audre Lorde quotes on my arms ... I don't think those fit in. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - calvarez, 2005-03-22 09:54 pm UTC

(no subject) - belladonnalin, 2005-03-22 10:02 pm UTC

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(no subject) - belladonnalin, 2005-03-23 12:12 am UTC

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(no subject) - fullmetalpussy, 2005-03-23 10:23 pm UTC

	evil_laugher 2005-03-22 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	Whatever the reasoning may be, are women still more likely to have hidden tattoos than men? That's a point to be considered. With the cute little hidden flower/butterfly tattoo on the ankle, I'm thinking more of the mainstream sorority girl who got a little drunk one night and decided to get a navel piercing. (Reply to this)

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	frickinmuck 2005-03-22 09:56 pm UTC (link)
	all of these ideas are easily explained by looking at cultural trends in general. religion and spirituality are on the decline. women who buy into the cultural notions of femininity are more likely to get girly/concealable tats. I'm not really sure what this woman's point is... (Reply to this)

	akfelecia2 2005-03-22 09:56 pm UTC (link)
	I had mine hidden so my parents wouldn't notice (which came crashing down during a fight with my sister and now it is a non-issue). (Reply to this)

tropicalwahini 2005-03-22 09:58 pm UTC (link)

I was talking with two of my guy friends once about tattoos (they both have them - I don't). I was saying if i ever did that I wanted a dragonfly and one of them was "no you can't get that - that's too girly. And I bet you would put in on your back or hip". well whatever - I would get the dragonfly because of the symbolic meaning not because its "pretty" but then i'd probably never get a tattoo cause needles scare me. (Reply to this)

	teresina 2005-03-22 10:06 pm UTC (link)
	my tattoos are lettering, and are on my wrist/forearm. i don't consider them feminine nor are they hidden (unless i'm wearing a long sleeved shirt) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	empty_land 2005-03-22 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	mine too! and me neither! (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - teresina, 2005-03-22 10:28 pm UTC

xxrosencrantzxx 2005-03-22 10:15 pm UTC (link)

I have three: an abstract one on my left shoulder, another abstract one on my upper back, and an anchor (stupid idea) on my ankle. As for the whole women getting tats in less visible places thing, I think the reverse is true. I'm constantly seeing women with tattoos on their ankles, a place that shows when you wear skirts. A lot of men might get them there too, but you don't see them unless they're wearing shorts. If I could go back, I wouldn't have placed the anchor there. I hate pantyhose/tights, so when I wear skirts to work, I have to put band-aids over it. The other two are easily covered in a professional setting. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	A message from my friend Adam: kattlady 2005-03-22 11:52 pm UTC (link)
	A lot of men might get them there too, but you don't see them unless they're wearing shorts. Or skirts! Heh ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

wordbox 2005-03-22 10:18 pm UTC (link)

When I got my tattoo, I got something that I felt was really important to me (I got 4 dog pawprints "walkng" up the left side of my upper back... it's a very gender-free, black design). It's easily concealable when I need to look professional, but is easily seen with a tank top or dress. That part doesn't bother me at all, since I love my tattoo. I'll be a bridesmaid in my sister's wedding this September, and I won't be covering it up. :) I like the placement because my back doesn't change very much (like, if I gain or lose weight). I plan on getting more tattoos, and all of them will be concealable to a certain degree, because of the career field I'm choosing (teaching), and not due to feminity (sp?) issues. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	that is really weird to hear. jsl32 2005-03-23 12:06 am UTC (link)
	i was talking to a girl who complained that too many other women at nightclubs and such were getting that tattoo when i told her it was a pretty cool design (as i hadn't seen it before.) trippy. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: that is really weird to hear. - wordbox, 2005-03-23 03:04 pm UTC

meredith_mae 2005-03-22 10:24 pm UTC (link)

I'm planning 2 tattoos - 1 feminine, 1 gender neutral, both just things I like that mean a lot to me. What's interesting is that several years ago, when I was about 19 and my brother 16, my brother asked my dad what he would think about either of us getting tattoos. He later told me our dad said he wouldn't want me getting a tattoo, but that it would be up to my brother whether or not he wanted one, after he turned 18. (At that time my brother was considering the navy. He's not anymore, although he was in a band for a while. He also has 2 tattoos and wants another.) I was very offended at the time. I took it not as an indication of my father thinking that I was the kind of person who would regret a tattoo and my brother wasn't, but that he thought tattoos were unfeminine or inappropriate for women, but not for men. (Reply to this)

belladonnalin 2005-03-22 10:29 pm UTC (link)

I find it interesting that people in this community are so resistant to the idea that gender has affected how we, as gendered people, tend to be tattooed. The statement "women tend to have smaller and less visible tattoos" doesn't mean that every single womyn EVER has those ... but rather that it's a gendered effect, just like most/all other aspects of life. Why can we accept that gender constructs affect EVERYTHING ... but not this? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	i don't think that's the objection. jsl32 2005-03-23 12:19 am UTC (link)
	(yay livejournal for eating my comment, hmf). the objections, i think, are that the subset discussed in the OP may not be the largest or most representative subset of women getting tattoos to generalise from. but it doesn't seem that anyone's denying the role of gender pressures regarding tattoo choice. (Reply to this) (Parent)

frenchthebully 2005-03-22 11:10 pm UTC (link)

My tattoo is lovingly copied from a classic photo by Man Ray: Frankly, the only reason it's on my lower back is because it would look kind of odd on any other part of my body. But I do agree with the "compromising femininity" idea. A tattoo on a man is a lot more socially acceptable than one on a woman. Although, for every cliche female tattoo (flowers, butterflies, dolphins), there is an equally cliche male tattoo (barbed wire arm bands and kanji, kanji, kanji). (Reply to this) (Thread)

	frenchthebully 2005-03-22 11:11 pm UTC (link)
	And of course, the image I post doesn't work. You can see an image of the original photograph here. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - onthepage, 2005-03-22 11:35 pm UTC

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(no subject) - borrowedwings, 2005-03-25 03:54 am UTC

goodlookinout 2005-03-22 11:41 pm UTC (link)

I think this is definitely true. Hell, my mom uses these arguments constantly when yelling at me (and trying to convince me...) that I shouldnt have or get more tattoos. Not only are her arguments incredibly classist, as she says that "only white trash people have tattoos" or "I see people on daytime talk shows - those are the people with tattoos!" but also, sexist, as she then says that well, if people ARE going to have tattoos, ITS ONLY OKAY FOR GUYS TO HAVE THEM! On girls, it's not FEMININE to have tattoos. And if god forbid girls ARE going to have them, it should just be small and somewhere not obvious. So yeah, I totally agree with this. And it's also one of the reasons I am DAMN proud of my tattoos. I have 9 tattoos, most of them in visible places and big-ish(on my forearms/shins) and I totally love showing them off. Hell, I got them for me: because I like the way they look at what they mean, so why should I be ashamed of them?? My mom constantly says things like: "but what about when you have to wear your wedding dress?? (or apply for a job, possibly be a teacher, etc)". Hell, I can't wait for the former (I mean, having lots of tattoos in a wedding dress), and in terms of the latter, I am a firm believer in chaning things by doing them... they only way people's/businesses/professions attitutes about tattoos making people less presentable/good worker/teacher/wahetevr are going to change, is not by us not getting them BECAUSE of that, but by me not being ashamed of them! :) Sorry this was ranty. I love tattoos, and I cant wait to get more! Fuck body and gender ideals! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	emobus 2005-03-22 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	they only way people's/businesses/professions attitutes about tattoos making people less presentable/good worker/teacher/wahetevr are going to change, is not by us not getting them BECAUSE of that, but by me not being ashamed of them! Rock on! (Reply to this) (Parent)

hobochic 2005-03-23 12:19 am UTC (link)

i wrote a paper on a very similar topic for my womens studies class last year. i think it's a too often overlooked point about the way mainstream culture affects the way women make decisions in even traditionally unpopular things such as tattoos. similar to the lower back tattoo is the navel piercing. you know what i'm saying... by the way, i love your tattoo in your icon. i remember seeing it posted in a tattoo community i also read. and also i loved why you got it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	emobus 2005-03-23 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

towanda 2005-03-23 12:20 am UTC (link)

I chose my location based on professionalism as well. I don't know if its in a feminine place or not but I put it on my back shoulder blade. I felt that was a place that was easily concealable AND easily revealable. Is my tattoo feminine? I don't know. Its a circle with a landscape of the blue ridge mountains inside connected by a scrolly thing to a feather quill. It has tremendous personal meaning and I don't think femininity played too much of a role in my choice. Certainly I didn't get a skull and crossbones or anything. I wonder if this woman touched on the empowering nature of tattoos. I got my tattoo and my body image went through the roof. It was the most empowering thing I've ever done. I can't wait to get more on my thighs, my butt, my hips, every part of my body that I am not confident about, I want to put a tattoo there. I like reclaiming and decorating my body to the point where I can finally feel like that part of my body is beautiful no matter what anyone else in society thinks. Tattooing for me is still just about rebellion. And in my case, I was rebelling against society trying to tell me I'm fat and worthless and ugly. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	towanda 2005-03-23 12:23 am UTC (link)
	Yes I'm going to be the first lame-o to post my picture and show it off! :) Here's a picture: (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - frizzlefrazzle, 2005-03-23 05:51 am UTC

cookieavalanche 2005-03-23 12:41 am UTC (link)

I know a lot about tatoos, current tatoo culture, and people who have tatoos. In general, amost everyone who defines as part of "mainstream" culture I know who has a tatoo, male or female, considered the effects of having an exposed tatoo. Almost all of these people got one that could be covered up, male and female. On the other hand, the people I know in "indie rock" or underground subcultures generally do not care, male or female. I know plenty of men and women who have full sleeve tatoos, even neck tatoos. I know it's anecdote, but I really don't think that in terms of tatoo visibility, the placement of tatoos is gender-bound. In terms of tatto content, there may be some gendered-ness there. (Reply to this)

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