feminist: 125 comments and hella controversy later...

Ruadhan J McElroy (

newdance) wrote in

feminist,
@ 2004-12-10 01:46:00

Current music:

The Chords - "Happy Families"

125 comments and hella controversy later...
I just now noticed that "human rights" is not listed in the community interests for feminist.

I'm wondering why?

(Post a new comment)

	kynn 2004-12-10 06:58 am UTC (link)
	Probably because it's hard to think up every single interest that can go in a community? --K (Reply to this) (Thread)

	newdance 2004-12-10 07:03 am UTC (link)
	When I checked, there was a spot for one more interest. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	rocket_hamster 2004-12-10 07:17 am UTC (link)
	I think what Kynn meant was that it's difficult to sit down and think of every single interest that any feminist might have so that no one is offended. Not that there wasn't any room. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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	fallofrain 2004-12-10 07:54 am UTC (link)
	More than likely, the reason it isn't in there is we hadn't thought of it. Certainly no malicious reason behind it or anything. You could just ask us 'would you please add this to the interests of the community'? (Replies frozen)(Thread)

	newdance 2004-12-10 08:00 am UTC (link)
	Would you please? That would make me feel much more comfortable with bringing up human rights issues in the future. (Replies frozen)(Parent)(Thread)

	fallofrain 2004-12-10 08:04 am UTC (link)
	Done. (Replies frozen)(Parent)(Thread)

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kynn
2004-12-10 08:06 am UTC (link)

I went back over the last few days' posts that I'd skipped over because I either didn't notice them or just wasn't interested.

I found a rant by

twentytens with more than 125 posts -- and quite a bit of controvery -- which seems to be what this is all about. I missed the whole controversy the first time around, and frankly, I'm glad I did.

If, by "human rights," that means that this community is to be used for discussing the evils of male circumcision -- which is clearly what

twentytens is referring to here -- then I certainly hope that "human rights" isn't added.

At least not if by including "human rights" we mean that all human rights issues, regardless of connection to feminism, are valid for discussion here.

Whether or not men have a raw deal because parts of their penises get chopped off is a legitimate human rights issue. But there are forums outside of

feminist for those, and I don't think they belong here any more than other issues which are human rights issues but not related to feminism (or even to women).

Of course: A discussion about circumcision which relates to feminism is on topic, just as a discussion of war which relates to feminism and (say) the impact of war on women is on topic. But that doesn't mean that ALL war discussion is appropriate for this forum -- even though women almost always bear a disproprotionate amount of the suffering during wartime!

Thus, my suggestion is that "human rights" not be added to the community's list of interests if the goal in doing so is to expand the scope of the community beyond feminism. For this reason, it's probably best to stick with "less inclusive" interests (such as those currently listed now) instead of broadening out the interest and potentially endorsing a lot of off-topic, non-feminism discussion here.

My two cents.

--Kynn

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fallofrain
2004-12-10 08:09 am UTC (link)

Ah. I already had added it and I see no reason not to, however, even if that's listed as an 'interest' I think it goes without saying that this is still a -feminist- community and human rights issues that are brought up should still pertain to -feminism-.

I was just looking over the community too for this alleged post with 125 comments and controversy. Guess I didn't read back far enough. Pardon me for that.

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newdance
2004-12-10 08:11 am UTC (link)

If, by "human rights," that means that this community is to be used for discussing the evils of male circumcision -- which is clearly what boirozzlyn is referring to here -- then I certainly hope that "human rights" isn't added.

It's a human rights issue.

Nobody has the right to remove a functional, purposeful part of a third party's body unless that body part has become life-threatening.

For this reason, it's probably best to stick with "less inclusive" interests (such as those currently listed now)

Yes, cos "complaining about the moderators" is SO important to and EXCLUSIVE to feminist issues!

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	krissikarma 2004-12-10 09:31 am UTC (link)
	If you're so passionate about protecting the baby boys' penises, why aren't you protesting at a hospital? Babies are being born all the time..now go. Trolling feminist communities won't save the penises! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	newdance 2004-12-10 09:34 am UTC (link)
	As somebody else said: Holding a different opinion does no necessarily constitute "trolling". My definition of feminism is one that concentrated on human rights in addition to equal rights and I'm sorry you see that difference in perspective as "trolling." (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

krissikarma
2004-12-10 09:38 am UTC (link)

It's not a difference in perspective, it's how you're conducting yourself. You are deliberately causing problems, picking arguments, putting words in poster's mouths, getting offended when there is nothing offensive - you're causing trouble for no reason. You're not even giving us anything interesting to argue about either - just wasting our time. If you have such a problem with this community's "definition of feminism", why not find another community more suited toward your concerns?

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	frightened 2004-12-10 01:28 pm UTC (link)
	Feminism and human rights, you see, is like cats and animals with four legs. All feminist issues are ones of human rights. Not all human rights issues are ones of feminism. Do you see the difference? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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	newdance 2004-12-10 09:37 am UTC (link)
	Furthermore, it's nice to see that you apparently believe that I'm at the physical liberty to just get up and protest anywhere I see fit at any time that I see fit. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cookieavalanche 2004-12-10 04:41 pm UTC (link)
	I have no idea about taht controversial post, but really, it IS silly that human rights isn't listed here. Now it is, and I'm glad, and it's done. (Reply to this) (Parent)

jfpbookworm
2004-12-10 02:07 pm UTC (link)

You know, you're coming off as subtly anti-feminist in these posts, what with the insistence on "men are victims too!", "how come you're not paying enough attention to men's issues?", and "if you were truly good people you'd be 'equalist' or something rather than 'feminist.'"

It's one thing to acknowledge men's issues when they come up in discussions, it's another to insist that everyone else give equal time and attention to those issues (usually with the insinuation that to not do so makes the members of the community anti-male). It's disruptive to insist on that when that's not what the community is about.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

big_city_girl
2004-12-10 02:31 pm UTC (link)

Is it really anti-feminist to have some concern for the male counterpart of our race? Certainly I'm not saying that we should wave a big flag stating that 'men are victims, too' or anything like that, but I do agree that human rights in general is an important concern for any and all peoples worried about and active in the advancement of the cause of any oppressed group.

As a side and personal note, I do think that some men's concerns are important to be discussed even in a feminist forum (or at least touched on) because we do have to live in the same world as men, those of us with children could very well have male children, and some of us are male-identified biological females. That and it makes us look a lot less like the patriarchical view of man-hating Nazis when we do.

Just my two cents, not wanting to start a flame war, just throwing my two cents in. Do you think if we get enough cents we can like, order pizza? :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_city_girl 2004-12-10 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	Ugh, I meant species instead of race. I have that whole "human race" concept stuck in my head from an article I was reading earlier and it leaked into my writing. SPECIES damnit, SPECIES. Okay, better now. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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	cookieavalanche 2004-12-10 04:42 pm UTC (link)
	women's rights are human rights. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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fatbobthecat
2004-12-11 12:32 am UTC (link)

I never said anything like that -- I said circumcision was a Human Rights Issue.

You choose to read that as me being anti-feminist -- I'm not. I'm anti-supremecist of any kind. Feminism, by definition, is about wanting equal rights for women -- I see nothing wrong with that. What I *do* see fault in is when Human Rights issues are being ignored by "feminists" because they "don't really have anything to do with women's issues."

If that's what's making me come off as angry and antagonistic, then so be it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Deleting comments is against community policy

kamuela
2004-12-10 03:51 pm UTC (link)

Deleting comments is frowned upon, except in cases of correcting typos. Repetitive comment deletion by the commentor or a poster will warrant banning. Keep comments enabled on all posts. Comment Screening is strictly prohibited. In addition, Thread Freezing is reserved for Moderator discretion only.

So I repeat: you are a pain in the ass.

And my evidence: in the other thread you refused to post a polite warning that your links were not work safe.

And here you are pestering the moderators who INHERITED this community from the previous moderating team for not having your specific interest listed.

Crimminy. You nit pick and antagonize for top measure. After a while, it ought not to be surprising why you don't garner more positive responses.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Deleting comments is against community policy krissikarma 2004-12-10 05:43 pm UTC (link)
	The OP isn't looking for positive responses (here). After reading this thread, the circumcision thread and a couple posts on her/his journal, the OP's intention seems only to rile up all the "man-hating, female supremacy supporting" psycho feminists that make themselves oh so visible on this message board. This thread is entirely pointless, and that's probably the point. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Deleting comments is against community policy icaruslaughing 2004-12-10 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	Seconded! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Deleting comments is against community policy kynn 2004-12-10 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	Hold on, the comment deletion was by me. I got rid of my responses which were the most inflammatory/personal after the moderator pointed out I was out of line. It was my intent to de-escalate, but obviously that didn't happen. --K (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Deleting comments is against community policy -

kamuela, 2004-12-10 08:00 pm UTC

Re: Deleting comments is against community policy -

kynn, 2004-12-10 09:06 pm UTC

	Re: Deleting comments is against community policy fallofrain 2004-12-10 07:00 pm UTC (link)
	I'm d'ohing at this this morning. I tried to be nice, but only cause last night I knew I was definitely not up to snuff. And I think kynn deleted those on his own after I expressed some dissatisfaction with the way things were going. Maybe I shouldn't have gone to bed on this one. Ah well, sorry. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)