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Question...

Have we discussed first person present tense vs first person past tense on FFF before? I don't want to rehash an old discussion if it exists. If it hasn't been discussed, what are your thoughts on these two styles?

I just finished reading a book that was written in first person present tense and it was hard to get used to at first. Initially it felt like: I wake up. I get out of bed. I brush my teeth. But then as I got further into the story, the present tense didn't bother me and the style did bring a certain amount of immediacy to the story that I wonder if past tense would have accomplished as well. So...I'm torn.

I think the reason that there aren't many books written in this first person present tense is that it's hard to pull off well, but if the author can do it, it can work great, depending on the story.

My question to you is...what are your thoughts on these two styles? What do you see as the advantages vs. the pitfalls?

Everyone, authors and watchers, feel free to answer this question from both a writing and a reading perspective.


Patrice Michelle

Comments

[info]marcyjo wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:15 pm (UTC)
Avid reader chiming in.

I've only come across one series that was written in first person present tense that I really loved. It is such a tricky thing to pull off without drawing the reader out of the story.

As a writer I tried it once to see if I could pull it off. Sources say "no." :D
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:27 pm (UTC)
Yes, I believe not pulling the reader out of the story is the issue I was concerned with.

[info]jer_bear711 wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC)
I don't mind reading it at all. A lot of the YA, chick lit and mainstream books I read are in present tense. I usually don't notice it, or if I do, it's only for a few pages.

When I wrote WICKED GAME, it came out in present tense. I wasn't sure why at first (all my previous novels had been written in past tense), but I went with the flow because it became impossible to write it in past tense--it was like trying to write left-handed. It just worked with the heroine's voice.

Eventually I came up with a rationale: she's a former(ish) con artist--therefore, readers would be wise to suspect any reflective first-person account of the story. But with present tense, the reader can experience the story with Ciara instead of having it told to them by her. In lit crit terms, present tense got me around the problem of an inherently unreliable narrator.

Hope that makes sense.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
This totally makes sense due to your heroine's background (ie, an unreliable narrator).

I'm finding myself writing in first person present tense at the moment, hence the reason I'm asking the question. I've never in my life written in present tense unless it was for a synopsis! The fact that this story is coming out this way is making it hard for me to force it to anything else.
[info]jer_bear711 wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 07:05 pm (UTC)
Good for you in following the natural voice!

I just remembered a book I read several years ago with two third-person narrators: one narrator's POV was told in past and the other in present. The past-tense guy was reflective and traditional, while the present-tense guy was impulsive and unpredictable. Since he lived in the moment, it made total sense for his POV to be told in present tense.

Unfortunately the book was otherwise boring as hell--I didn't finish it and I can't remember the name, but it was worth it just for that lesson. It was a stylistic decision based on character, like mine was.

I think if you're going to go "out of the norm" with a technique, there needs to be a good reason other than immediacy, because as someone else pointed out, you can create immediacy and suspense with past tense.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 01:51 am (UTC)
I think if you're going to go "out of the norm" with a technique, there needs to be a good reason other than immediacy, because as someone else pointed out, you can create immediacy and suspense with past tense.

This is a valid point, especially if your story starts off with narrative. Hmmm...
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 01:57 am (UTC)
Um, that was from me. I thought I'd signed in.
[info]cynleitichsmith wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:41 pm (UTC)
a logistical consideration
One issue to consider in tense is whether the POV character dies (as in dies dies, not undead dies) at the end because then of course they couldn't tell the story of the past. This may seem a bit literal, but it does bother some readers.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:31 pm (UTC)
Re: a logistical consideration
Oh yeah, good point! My mc doesn't die so I have the flexibility, but the story is just flowing out in FPPOV present tense.
[info]juushika wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:44 pm (UTC)
As a reader:

I dislike present tense in general, and first person present tense in particular. I have a hard time adjusting to it, it feels stilted and abrupt, and somehow it seems to hamstring the story—I expect less foreshadowing or a weaker plot arc because of the immediacy of the narrative, and when foreshadowing is apparent it feels either blatant or unbelievable because, again, the immediacy of the story makes it stand out too much.

Almost all of the books I read are in third person past tense—trying to recommend first person books to a friend, I nearly drew a blank. But regardless of the narrator, I prefer past tense. It feels more natural, and it lets the plot come together somewhat more gracefully in my eyes.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:32 pm (UTC)
Very good point about foreshadowing with FP present tense. I'll have to keep that in mind!
[info]cathellisen wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 07:40 am (UTC)
Hmm and yet, it can be done. :D

I write first person present and I *know* that if there is one thing I am good at, it's foreshadowing.
[info]carriejones wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:44 pm (UTC)
"but I went with the flow because it became impossible to write it in past tense."

This is what happened to me. My first three books are all in present tense. I think it's because I used to be a poet and it's very common for poetry because of the sparseness and immediacy.

I never in a million years imagined that I would write fiction in first person present though.

One of the few things in favor of first present is that it creates a possibility that things might not turn out that well. Instead of implying that the narrator has made it through everything and had time to be introspective about events (first past) it makes the narrator experience events with the reader. That creates a bit more suspense. You aren't so sure that it will end up well because the narrator hasn't already lived through it and is calm enough to talk about it and relive it.

Did that make any sense?
[info]amanda_marrone wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:30 pm (UTC)
I think that's why I write my YA's are in first present--sorry folks--because there's always a chance things will not turn out well enough for the narrator to keep telling the story. And I enjoy reading other works in this tense--I like being in the mc's head.

My middle grades all naturally fell into first/past, though.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:34 pm (UTC)
One of the few things in favor of first present is that it creates a possibility that things might not turn out that well

Yes! This makes total sense to me.
[info]coffeeisgod wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 05:50 pm (UTC)
It's very difficult for me to get into a book written in the present tense. I'm not sure why, it doesn't diminish the writing abilities of the author at all, but it's very distracting. About 1/3 of the way through the book, I had to sit it down and I haven't revisited it since. The only pitfall I can see is that it's distracting, but that's one of my little quirks.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:35 pm (UTC)
Yes, this is what I was talking about the author having to pull it off VERY well to make it work for the reader. Otherwise the reader loses interest.
[info]cecewriter wrote:
Sep. 25th, 2008 02:27 pm (UTC)
In general, I think first person is one of those things you either do well, or don't. Good first person rocks--regardless of tense; bad first person is like nails down a chalkboard!

I typically do first/past but have done first/present a couple times. Sometimes it just is what it is :D
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 25th, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC)
Good first person rocks--regardless of tense; bad first person is like nails down a chalkboard!

I think this is very true!
[info]p_sunshine wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC)
I dislike first person present, because I find it jarring and just can't get past that. I can't remember a book written entirely this way that I didn't eventually put back on the rack at the bookstore. There's the argument that present makes it more suspenseful, but suspense can be written just as well in past tense.

On the other hand, when reading individual scenes from the character's past, I've noticed that those are generally written present tense, and that doesn't bother me.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:37 pm (UTC)
I'm with you on the jarring part. Then it's up to the author's voice and story to keep me reading. :)
[info]feycreations wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:34 pm (UTC)
From the reading perspective Jeanne Stein does a heck of a job with present tense. While reading I felt there was more intensity, more at stake. It also added a nice twist, that 'something different' I'm always looking for in a book.

From the writing perspective I unconsciously switched from past to present in my current work. After noticing my flip flop I went back and reworked the first couple chapters. Switching tense allowed me to keep the 'normalcy' of my main character without her becoming boring. Or so I'm told. *grin* The switch has made it more challenging. I find myself more interested than usual in keeping the flow going.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 06:40 pm (UTC)
Go Jeanne! :)

That's the point I'm at right now. Initially I wrote the beginning of this story in first person past. Then I rewrote it, forcing it to third person past. But now that I'm revisiting it after a loooong break, the moment I started editing it, without a conscious decision on my part, it's coming out in first person present and if "feels" right. Yes, you do have to stay on your toes with this tense because it's easy to slip into past tense here and there, but it is an interesting challenge.
[info]tom_gallier wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 12:13 am (UTC)
I didn't even realize she wrote the Anna Strong novels in 1st person present. I have to get them and check. Dang, she's good. Until until you mention this series I couldn't recall a 1st present POV that I've read.

Well done, Jeanne!
(Anonymous) wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC)
Delurking reader here. While it's probably to my detriment, I will immediately re-shelve any book I pick up that's in first person present. FP past I can live with, but the former reads like nails on a chalkboard (or, more accurately, a young, inexperienced writer.) Obviously, this is just one reader's opinion, and I'm sure it *can* be done well, in the right hands.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 08:23 pm (UTC)
Yep, this is a risk the author takes when writing in present tense.
[info]thegreatmissjj wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 08:45 pm (UTC)
Present tense doesn't bother me so much as the first person does. And it isn't as though the first person bothers me either, it's just that it takes much longer for me to get into. Perhaps it's because while I'm sociable and friendly, I'd rather not know the intimate insides of someone's head right away. I need a slower introduction I think and I dislike being thrown into a narrative from inside someone's head. What if I don't like this character? Or their voice?

That being said, certain stories call for certain tenses and POVs. My personal favourite is third person past but I've written practically every tense and POV out there, including second person.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 01:53 am (UTC)
I naturally default to 3rd person past, which makes it my favorite since it's the one I'm most comfortable with.
[info]cloudshaper2k wrote:
Sep. 23rd, 2008 11:04 pm (UTC)
Oddly enough, I think the best present tense work I ever read was Tad William's Shadowmarch (the original on-line serial release). However, it wasn't first person, it was third. Initially, it was difficult to read because the tense was jarring. After a chapter or two, I didn't notice it and it worked.

Unfortunately, when it went to print, TOR had him rewrite it into past tense. When I re-read it, I had the reverse problem of the story didn't sound right in past tense now.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 01:55 am (UTC)
Now this is interesting that you enjoyed the present tense version better. I do think we get used to a certain style and when it changes on us we have a harder time acclimating to it.
[info]spark_force wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 03:27 am (UTC)
I don't mind reading present tense at all, though I understand I may be unusual in that respect. After a few pages I don't even notice it anymore. It's also what comes out naturally when I first write something, for whatever reason; often on the second go-around I'll switch to past tense, but that first try is usually in present.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 04:00 pm (UTC)
After a few pages I don't even notice it anymore.

This is what I ran across too.
[info]mlady_rebecca wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 04:55 am (UTC)
I don't know that I've ever read an entire book in present tense. I know I've read plenty of short works written that way, and it always seems awkward to me.

As for point of view, I find most of my favorite books are in first person. Unlike a previous commenter, I like getting in the lead's head.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 04:03 pm (UTC)
Unlike a previous commenter, I like getting in the lead's head.

I know first person present tense is considered to be used for immediacy, but what you've mentioned above is how I perceive its use. That this tense really lets you get in the MC's head, much deeper and more intimately than the other options allow.
[info]cathellisen wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 07:46 am (UTC)
I can't say I've ever understood the FP present-hate. I've read bad books written in every possibly pov and tense, and good ones too. One of the books I really enjoyed reading last year was in second person. After the first few paragraphs my brain made the switch and I devoured the rest of the story.

When I first started writing I used the standard third past, and then slowly began challenging myself to play with tense and pov a bit. The novel that got me an agent was written in first present and so far there has been no mention made that I need to change it.

For me, it's just a case of if it works, it works, if it doesn't, rewrite.
[info]kellymeding wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 02:53 pm (UTC)
Hate exists for all possible narration combos (First-past, first-present, third-past, third-present, omni, etc...). I've been an avid reader my entire life, and I can't say I've ever put down a book because of its narrative choice.

Like cathellisen, after a few pages my brain adjusts to whichever narrative choice the author has made (of course, then I have to readjust my brain when I go back to writing my own novels, or I'll start switching tenses all over the place).
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 04:07 pm (UTC)
after a few pages my brain adjusts to whichever narrative choice the author has made

And I think herein lies the issue for those who don't like first person present. They prefer not to make the mental adjustment. For me...as long as the story is engaging, I'll stick it out until my brain accepts the narrative choice.
[info]cathellisen wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 05:15 pm (UTC)
yeha, if you can't make the switch then you miss out on amazing books like Fight Club. :D
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 24th, 2008 04:04 pm (UTC)
For me, it's just a case of if it works, it works, if it doesn't, rewrite.

Agreed! Especially if you've tried it the other ways first. LOL!
[info]reneesweet wrote:
Sep. 25th, 2008 12:20 am (UTC)
Hey Patrice,
I know I'm super late to the game, but I wanted to recommend Jeanne Stein's Anna Strong series and Marjorie M. Liu's Hunter Kiss UF series as two examples of well done first person present POV.
:)
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 25th, 2008 12:43 am (UTC)
Many thanks, Renee. It's nice to check out how others have done this. :)
[info]sarahbethdurst wrote:
Sep. 26th, 2008 01:58 am (UTC)
De-lurking to chime in with my two cents... As a reader, I find past tense to be more invisible -- I'm able to stop noticing the writer's style and sink into the story faster. For me to sink into a story that's written in present tense, the prose needs to really flow -- so I think Patrice is right that present tense is harder to do well. Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but I think Libba Bray did a beautiful job with first person present tense in her Gemma Doyle series.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 26th, 2008 02:53 pm (UTC)
Hey Sarah, Yey for delurking! Come out and play more often. :) I agree with you on the "invisibility" of past tense vs the "in your face" feel of present, but you're so right about good writing making that transition much easier to fall right into the story. Thanks for the heads up about Libba Bray's series being in first person present. I didn't know..and I have the first book on my TBR pile. :)
[info]agent_squeaks wrote:
Sep. 26th, 2008 04:32 am (UTC)
*also de-lurks* The current story I'm working on [Draw Blood- a tale of college, werewolves, murders, and buckets of spare ribs] is told in third person present, but it's very tight 3rd person, focusing on Jeremy-the werewolf.
[info]patricemichelle wrote:
Sep. 26th, 2008 02:54 pm (UTC)
Hi agent_squeaks! I don't think I've ever read a story in 3rd person present before. Interesting.
[info]agent_squeaks wrote:
Sep. 26th, 2008 02:56 pm (UTC)
Hi! It's pretty much all I write in, with the occasional first person past tense.

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