I hate this with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. The word 'f&cktard' keeps repeating in my mind over and over again, along with:

DO NOT WANT.

- Jill Myles

I'm all for this as soon as he creates and completes the "Grab my Sac" program. *mutter* Jerkwad.

Edited To Add: Oh yeah, it's "voluntary." And I bet "Where's YOUR button?" is going to be asked all in good fun and won't feel intrusive or threatening AT ALL.

And I repeat: jerkwad.

-Saundra

Edited at 2008-04-22 07:18 pm (UTC)

I'm just amazed.... floored. ::shakes head in disgust::

Because we all know that if we were all to devote ourselves to one project to improve the world, this would be it.

Some people should just stay in their mom's basement.

Terrifying. I really wish I didn't know these people existed, and can only hope that they're all Americans and thus very far away from me. Am now a little more afraid of cons in general, because I know that there may be people there who are interested in my breasts.

The most terrifying thing is how few people in his comments seem to have any problem with it. What the hell?

(Edited for sense and additional thought)

Edited at 2008-04-22 06:35 pm (UTC)

Juvenile and objectifying, but if a woman WANTS to be objectified and puts on a button saying so...sigh, but okay. But I do imagine it'll have an undesirable impact on Penguicon.

Fail.

Um, no, totally epic fail on this one. I'm sorry, but how is this not reducing me to just a set of breasts? Someone please explain this to me, because apparently I'm totally not getting it.

I wouldn't even let random people grope my elbow. That isn't because I find the elbow sacred, but because I tend to shy away from strangers groping me as a general rule.

*blinks*

Wow. First, that makes Peguicon drop to the bottom of my list as far as Cons I want to attend.

Second, none of the people involved seem to understand that their little "de-mystifying" project, far from decreasing the objectification of women and boobs, increases it - I don't care if the women involved had "no problem with it". Then they should have kept it behind closed doors. A public display such as this sends the wrong message to anyone who sees it in so many ways!

I find this ironic, coming as it does during April, Sexual Assault Awareness Month. I posted about rape on my journal just yesterday, and now this.

Jeez.

1. Didn't this guy ever hear of "what happens at con stays at con?"

2. Even if it was okay with the women in his small social group, what makes him think it'll be okay with the vast majority of women who attend conventions? And how are they going to keep the jerkwads (who troll cons looking for stupid/drunk take advantage of) out of this "program"? Did anyone take five minutes to think about how this could go terribly, terribly wrong in myriad ways?

3. I appreciate the "if you don't have a button you won't be asked" codicil, but the issues of consent and objectification are SO BROAD here as to make that little CYA statement ludicrous.

4. What happens if some teenage girl puts the button on thinking it's "cool" and then gets into a snit (or God forbid, gets harassed etc. in a very uncool way) and sues someone? A whole convention could go down for this, leaving a lot of fans etc. in the lurch.

5. I am just awed at the massive stupidity of: loosening convention mores, alcohol, and a License to Grope; all put together at once. It's like a perfect storm of sexual harassment and Bad Idea all in one pretty package.

Of course, people have the right to be as stupid as they want to be, especially at conventions, but if I ever see one of those buttons, my knee-jerk reaction is going to drop the assumed IQ points of that person into the gutter. That might be unfair, but in view of the MASSIVE PROBLEMS with this "project" that anyone with half a brain cell and five seconds of thought will trip over, I don't think it's that unfair.

Me, I'm a touchy-feely sort, in that once I know you, I'm probably going to give you a hug hello instead of shake your hand. It's who I am.

But if anyone touches my breasts, I'm introducing them to my knuckles.

This whole "May I touch your breasts" thing is NOT okay. No matter what the fellow is saying, it **IS** sexual.

Oh, Jesus wept. "If you don't have a button you won't be asked." Yeah, that'll last until the second round of margaritas at someone's room party. "It's not about objectification." Then sneak a look just like every other straight man in the world and shut the fuck up about it.

Trying to come across as sex-positive and woman-positive in the original post just makes it all the more revolting.

If someone comes up to me and asks to touch my boobs, they're getting the finger at the least and a pissed-off fantasy writer's knee in their balls at worst. There's a REASON that's the normal reaction to a man asking to touch your boobs outside of the bedroom where you're both consenting adults. It's because a man demanding to touch a woman's breasts takes away her dignity and her equal footing in the conversation, and reduces her to the meat of her body, not the words coming out of her mouth. It's degrading and stupid, and I hope that next year someone brings a taser for these idiots.

Or there are always ball-munching weasels.

Why is this okay? Did Alice Paul and Sojourner Truth work so hard for nothing?? Sure, women can make their own choices---I agree, but I would not participate in such a sick little game. This is just sad.

~Tyhitia
http://obfuscationofreality.blogspot.com/

How would they like it if we went around saying, "Can I measure your penis?"

LOL, Maggie!

You have got to be frakking kidding me.

Just as a fair warning, someone approaches me at a con and asks the question? Will immediately be slapped silly and probably kicked in the knee with a very pointy shoe. Or else will immediately have con security notified. And if the con does nothing, it's one I won't be going back to.

::sigh::

I don't seem to have the words to say how wrong this all is.

But you've all said them for me.

I like going to cons because I consider them a safe space. This makes me feel very unsafe. Perhaps it's my own problem with stereotypes or trust issues or whatever, but it very much makes me want to avoid any con that supports this project. Perhaps Frolicon or other cons where sex and sexuality are the focus would be a better venue.

Jeebus, what a bunch of utter Fuckwards and Asshats.

So, is it time for me to get out the White Stick O' Smiting and go forth smacking these weasels?

Or maybe careswen and a taser could go forth.

The Merriams are not pacifists, fyi.

Actually, this brings to mind a moment from RT this weekend while watching all the lovely mantitty floating past... we decided the men needed signs: "For Display Purposes Only"

Heeheehee...

All right, so as someone who has taught a regular women's self defense class in the past, I posted a response to this that outlines some of the inherent dangers this 'project' creates, if anyone is interested.

I also replied to the original post, and linked my response there. I'm sure I'll get some responses from that, but God, if it makes even one of these people think about the possible consequences, I couldn't in good conscience NOT link it.

Edited at 2008-04-22 08:43 pm (UTC)

Hmmm, I'm trying to figure out a way to phrase this that's not going to get people all worked up at me. Oh, heck, I'm not sure why I'm trying. Someone will find my post offensive. *wry grin*

This is, one of the inherent dangers of the internet. Take a moment completely out of context and blow it into a malestrom.

I don't necessarily find it offensive for a man to walk up to me and ask to feel my chest. I wouldn't say yes though, and as I told Jackie if he didn't take my polite no for an answer then we'd have an issue. I've seen stranger things happen at Cons, events, whatever. They tend to exist on a wholly different set of rules from "normal" time.

What does bother me is as some others pointed out is the inherent danger of younger girls (or women without enough self-esteem to tell a man no) getting pawed at by letchers who don't know how to control themselves.

I don't think that the whole thing was meant to "reduce women to a set of breasts" it was just the part he was talking about. Would we all be so offended if this had been Project Elbow instead?*

Reading the post what it appeared to me was again, a spontaneous event born of an interesting discussion that then morphed into something else and thanks to the 'Net was pulled out of context and into the realm of righteous anger.

Because obviously we don't have enough to do other than get mad about some dorkus on the internet.

*as a side note, I'd react the same way no matter what part of my body someone asked about touching, I don't like being touched by strangers - ever. Ask and I'll say no, don't ask and you're liable to get a good sized bruise somewhere tender.

There was some time ago, at a random pagan festival, when someone came up with the button "Just Ask". It was for polys and it means, to feel free to chat/hit on and see if something happens. There was also a "no thanks" button for the opposite (don't even try) and one for straights and gays/lesbians, but when I first read it this, it reminded me of those buttons.

Won't say if those buttons were a good idea or not, but I found it interesting to see who actually wore the buttons and for what reasons. However, I will admit, I don't see where it would reduce someone down to a set of breasts (or balls for the male version of course). Guess I just don't see it; though if it was mandatory or "assume yes if no button" that is something else.

Edited at 2008-04-22 11:05 pm (UTC)

Having only read it after all of the clarifications, I can say I'm not as outraged as others--but am perplexed at the assumed need for this sort of experiment. I can say that I very much miss hanging out with nearly all theater people, and being in groups of friends that are very touch friendly--once you're used to non-sexual touch (which isn't precicely what he's getting at), having fewer hugging-comfortable friends is a tough adjustment. So I get the importance of touch. But I'm not sure I get the importance of touching people you don't have a touch-comfortable relationship with.

But then, I'm not entirely sure I was ever comfortable with the Free Hugs movement either. So for me, I suspect it's far more a personal space issue than a demeaning my femininity issue. The safety issues that people have brought up, however, are *very real.*

Thanks for posting this here--I'd heard it mentioned in other posts and hadn't actually read about it, so this clarified everything quite a bit. John Scalzi's blog about it (which I found after hearing it mentioned) was also a good secondary view of the event.