Dr. Susan Calvin ([info]drcalvin) wrote in [info]fanficrants,
@ 2009-05-03 23:45:00
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epic language fail is pretty epic
Look...

These characters aren't just from certain non-japanese-speaking countries. They are none-japanese-speaking countries. In fact, they are countries that we should safely assume speak the same bloody language

So, could you please explain to me why in the world Germany would call Prussia "nii-san" in an otherwise english-language fic?

I try not to blame the scanslator, but it's difficult not to.... otoh, people seem to have a big old japanese kink all the time anyway

It's not even that hard to add a (semi)relevant nii-san in fic for this fandom, just write about Japan, dammit

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[info]sjorn
2009-05-03 10:10 pm UTC (link)
I don't think you should add anything like that even if you're writing about Japanese people who like, live in Japan or whatever, unless you're writing in Japanese.

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-03 10:30 pm UTC (link)
weeeell, in this canon if you're writing a fic about Japan and China, for instance, I guess that could be worked in without sounding too awkward. but generally I agree - keep it all in language, especially if the characters are speaking one language with each other

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[info]helen_damnation
2009-05-03 10:18 pm UTC (link)
That's a new twist to an old problem. Seriously, Germany?

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-03 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Axis Powers Hetalia; personifications of nations ase (mostly) moe guys.

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[info]eternalotome9
2009-05-03 10:20 pm UTC (link)
I assume this is Hetalia related? How does fic in that fandom work anyway, considering most of the countries shouldn't be able to speak to each other?

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-03 10:24 pm UTC (link)
Most writers that actually address this either go for all the countries speaking the same language (usually English), or that the countries speak their own understood language, and human languages just add colour. Most just avoid the issue though - the fandom is built on suspended disbelief. ^^

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-03 10:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, in canon, they all seem to understand each other fine, so you can just ignore that Since they're not human, my headcanon says the inter-nation language is pre-Tower of Babelesian

But since they are different countries, I don't mind _correctly spelled_ foreign phrases, they can be done well. Sometimes.

But... Well. Nii-san in this context is not correctly used

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[info]shay_guy
2009-05-04 01:34 am UTC (link)
There's a bit in one fic I've read where two countries (well, one of them more a proto-nation at that point) talk about their own languages, because one of them was derived partly from the other. The conversation as a whole seems to be conducted in what we shall call Hetalian, though.

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-03 10:22 pm UTC (link)
There was a prompt in the kinkmeme about Germany having a nii-san kink with Prussia. The justifications for this are quite amusing - as is Prussia's incredulous disgust. What, bruder isn't good enough? XD

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-03 10:26 pm UTC (link)
Yes, and I actually found those fics funny. But it has also showed up several times in fics that just don't acknowledge at all that these two German brother's are, you know, probably speaking German with each other ^^;

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-03 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I know, it's annoying. The writer either has a Japanese kink they're pandering for, or they don't even seem the realise what they're doing. In their defense, the scanlations make the same mistake. But it is irritating - if only because I quite like the word bruder.

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-03 10:32 pm UTC (link)
I know, I was super-annoyed when I saw the scanslation for that; Aha, there we have the source of the problem!

I'm guilty of using bruder (and Bruderchen from Prussia *hearts German semi-suffixes*) but I try to stop myself, or at least give a reason

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-03 10:36 pm UTC (link)
I don't see why you need a reason, not if France can use his language every other sentence. Most readers would just shrug it off as them speaking in the nation-language - or at least, that's what I do. I suppose it would be awkward if you assume they were already speaking German but...*shrugs* Bruder and Bruderchen is worth it, and the series Rome made the same mistake (ritual incantations in Latin, wtf are they speaking then? Still bugs me...)

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[info]citharadraconis
2009-05-03 11:28 pm UTC (link)
To be fair, ritual incantations are in a very different kind and register of Latin than what they spoke--sounded different, structured differently, and possibly five hundred or more years older in origin. And we don't really know much about the "vulgar Latin" the Romans actually spoke, which would have been liberally adulterated with Greek and provincial argot, especially among military men; so that's one conceit I'm willing to grant them. In a more general sense, when used well that kind of thing can give dialogue the right "flavor."

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-04 10:00 am UTC (link)
Wow, I didn't know any of that. Guess I was quick to judge! Thanks for the info. ^^

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 04:52 am UTC (link)
When did Rome use ritual incantations? I think I've read everything that has been scanslated, but I must have missed that part ^^;

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[info]kaysinkacei
2009-05-04 10:02 am UTC (link)
Sorry, I was referring to a different TV series called Rome - but as I was corrected above, they weren't really doing anything wrong. So just disregard that statement. ^^

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[info]swordandfaith
2009-05-03 11:23 pm UTC (link)
I can't even begin to tell you how much that annoys me.

Was the fic all that good either way?

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 04:51 am UTC (link)
It was decent until that moment. And there isn't so much Germancest that I can be overly picky. But there are limits *perturbed*

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[info]bito_ishida
2009-05-04 01:53 am UTC (link)
I thought it was Black Butler related until I read about Germany @@

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 04:53 am UTC (link)
haha, no, I just use the purty icons from that series ^_^

In Black Butler, I would guess there are other catchphrases that are in Japanese instead, but I can't remember there being that many brothers around (?)

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[info]vethica
2009-05-05 12:34 am UTC (link)
I've seen stuff like "bocchan" used in (my brief forays into) BB fic. Seriously? What exactly is wrong with "young master"? :\

(I do kinda have to wonder how they translate "Sebas-chan", though. Is it "Sebby" or something? 'Cause that'd be kinda cute.)

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[info]schreckschraube
2009-05-04 06:06 am UTC (link)
Germany is talking to Prussia? Is that some kind of time-travel fic?

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 10:36 pm UTC (link)
Nope, Axis Powers Hetalia. The countries tend to appear as children before they exist historically and Prussia seems to be hanging around at least up to WWII... Fanon is usually that the nation-tan for Prussia switched to become East Germany afterwards but nothing is certain about that.

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[info]twetwe123
2009-05-04 11:28 am UTC (link)
Saw that in a North Italy/South Italy fic. Nii-san's all over the place, and they used fratello in the title anyway.

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 10:33 pm UTC (link)
-_- But why?

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[info]seekingnevada
2009-05-04 12:34 pm UTC (link)
I've been hearing about this... are there any links to this, either in scanlation or anime form or whatever? I've become strangely fascinated with the idea.

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 02:38 pm UTC (link)
[info]hetalia is the central fandom hub, where scans and episode downloads are posted, as well as a lot of fandom material.

This site links to all scanlations: http://sites.google.com/site/hetaliaindexes/

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[info]seekingnevada
2009-05-04 06:25 pm UTC (link)
So long, summer break...

Thank you. XD

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[info]mcsourface
2009-05-04 10:16 pm UTC (link)
I have seen this pulled off in doujins with these two, but....
Wouldn't it be better to use Bruder (especially if your keyboard can handle that stupid umlaut on the U)? 'Cause they're German? Ahh, fics have special rules. Maybe it's just me.
There's only like two cases when using a Japanese term meaning brother is important, if I recall the canon correctly. Korea (of course), and that time when Baby America was instructed not to call England Onii-chan.

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[info]mcsourface
2009-05-04 10:19 pm UTC (link)
I see I've been postjacked. XD Good to know there's so many wonderful people around! This is why I love this fandom so much.

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[info]drcalvin
2009-05-04 10:33 pm UTC (link)
Now, German isn't my first language, but I'm pretty certain Brüder is plural so you don't even need the umlaut if it's just one of them talking to the other ^_^

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