olesia exists ([info]killyoudead) wrote in [info]fanficrants,
@ 2008-06-18 23:23:00
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Yu-Gi-Oh fandom

In particular, people who write about Mutou Yuugi. You know. The "Yugi"/"Yuugi" in "Yugioh"/"Yuugi-ou"? The titular protagonist?

Yeah. About him. He's self-sacrificing to the extreme, this is true. Yuugi's perfectly willing to let himself suffer copious amounts of physical violence if it means protecting his friends from physical violence / being extorted / being forced into random gangs / being forced to listen to bad karaoke / etc. His emotions are, for the first part of the series, so caught up with how his friends are doing that even after suffering physical distress, he doesn't get upset to the point of 'switching faces' until one of his friends is threatened/hurt/crying over carnival games.

Really. He gets beaten up badly enough to wind up in the nurse's office, covered in bandages, but doesn't get upset enough to actually do anything until one of his friends starts crying over their broken paper maché carnival games.

If his friends/family are really hurt (abducted, souls taken, murdered by Tetris), he goes into emotional catatonic shock -- which is when dark Yuugi pops up to 'save the day'.

So, erm, you guys? Being almost everyone else I've met in this fandom who likes Yuugi -- why are you all getting him so, so horribly wrong? Yuugi doesn't roll under the wills of others, and certainly never backs down from a fight. I suddenly have the DiC dub theme song to Sailor Moon stuck in my head, and it applies way more to Yuugi than it did to Serena...

Let the ghost that lives in his head come out to play card games as a way to discover his missing past? Sure, why not. He's been brooding since that last tournament over the holes in his memory and the fact he doesn't know who he is -- not only should this quest help him out, but it's a quest involving card games! How could he say no to that?

Send said ghost out to hang out with one of their mutual friends in an effort to cheer up said ghost when Yuugi's own efforts at such failed? Of course -- that's what friends do! And besides, mutual friend has a very obvious crush on you, ghost! This way, she can cheer him up, he can see how awesome a friend she is, and then those two might get together and then be even more happy! Everyone wins! yeah, Yuugi likes her, but she likes "Yami" more, and that's perfectly okay.

So where the hell are you getting the idea that he's this submissive little push-over that would weep big fat emo tears and go out cutting himself and go IT'S HOPELESS! THE FACT THAT I AM ALONE IN MY HEAD AGAIN -- LIKE EVERY OTHER SANE PERSON (with some exceptions, for which there are exorcists, therapists, and occasional medications) -- HAS LEFT ME IN DESPAIR *HANGS SELF*.

Well, if he did a reenactment of SZS, I'd be thrilled. But seriously. He wouldn't. Please stop failing at writing my favorite character?

In short: Self-sacrifice DOES NOT EQUAL submissive little cry-baby. A martyr complex is incredibly difficult to sustain for any considerable length of time. Being strong, supportive, and a good friend is much harder than you think. Considering that being a good, strong friend to others always has been and always will be his greatest and most fervent wish SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.

AUGH. Honestly, did you get all this bad characterization from the 4Kids dub? Did it really murder his core personality, actions and values that badly, or did you all just go "HIS SUB/UKE STEREOTYPE IS PASTED ON YAY." ?

It's probably the latter. And this is why I hope that my fandom is just full of LOLCATS.



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Digimon spoilers ahead!
[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-19 06:35 am UTC (link)
Actually, I thought he was dubbed pretty well, as a character. It's the fanbrats again.

This happens to a lot of Digimon characters too, especially Ken and Kouichi. Heck, Kouichi *did* sacrifice himself for his friends...so people write him as a little wuss, even though it took guts.

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Re: Digimon spoilers ahead!
[info]yhaythar
2008-06-19 06:40 am UTC (link)
The Yuugiou dub is full of win, just like all 4Kids dubbing. No one wants to admit it, but heck, these shows wouldn't be the same without them.

Well, that, and how can you go wrong with Dan Green?

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Re: Digimon spoilers ahead!
[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-19 06:47 am UTC (link)
It's like I say, they'd be a lot better if they dumped their idiot boss. Remember in the DBZ days when FUNi was considered a horrible dubbing company? If they can do a turnaround, so can 4Kids--they have some very talented people working for them, but they're hampered by morons in charge.

Dan Green is awesome. They work him like a horse, but that's *because* he's awesome.

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Re: Digimon spoilers ahead!
[info]yhaythar
2008-06-19 06:55 am UTC (link)
Tried and true. I think Samurai Deeper Kyo was FUNi, and basically their entire dub cast was the Yuugiou dub cast. Same types of roles, too. XD It sounded just fine.

4Kids unintended innuendos are pretty special, though.

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-19 07:08 am UTC (link)
My favorites are when they put in *intented* innuendos. Like in one of the Pokemon specials, Brock is putting the moves on a girl named Domino (see icon) and he tells her "Let's go somewhere private and line up and see if we're a match!" Suffice it to say that the Japanese line wasn't *nearly* as filthy.

(also in the same special, Ted Lewis' performance very strongly suggests that Giovanni is becoming aroused by watching torture. He has this distinct strain in his voice in that scene that isn't present anywhere else in the special, so...)

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[info]yhaythar
2008-06-19 07:14 am UTC (link)
... Huh! ♥ That's kind of awesome.

I guess sometimes you gotta wonder. Fans can't be the only ones who catch these things, and we know that dubbing companies aren't always srs biznuss.

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-19 08:04 am UTC (link)
Indeed. Now if only they'd let the GOOD dubbers there, the ones who did Mewtwo Returns (the aforementioned special) work on the OTHER special, Legend of Thunder. That one was made of fail and lose as much as the other one was made of awesome and win. People were taken aback and there was a letter-writing campaign, most of it centering around a single character (feminine-looking male being given a woman's voice. And since gay characters seem to be the one thing 4Kids *doesn't* have a problem with, it was even more of a shock. Although according to one of the actors, it was the result of a typo on the script. But given that in Japanese this guy has the deepest voice in the whole special, did they even get the original track at ALL? That's a whole new kettle of fish.)

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[info]seiberwing
2008-06-19 01:26 pm UTC (link)
But...isn't Meowth voiced by a transsexual? You'd think they'd get letters on that.

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-20 04:03 am UTC (link)
Well, she's the one who told us it was due to a typo. She was pretty good in the fandom for a while, but then she kinda dropped out. I guess she got busy.

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[info]seiberwing
2008-06-20 10:26 am UTC (link)
Typo?

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-21 02:51 am UTC (link)
Apparently in a bio or something, "he" got written as "she". Which makes it even more confusing that the only time his gender is refered to in the dub is "those men". So people have debates about if he's a woman in the dub or just a man with a feminine voice.
That's the guy in my icon, btw. Although I changed his hair color for it (the text is the natural color).

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[info]seiberwing
2008-06-21 02:56 am UTC (link)
*snrk* How do you go through an episode without referring to someone's gender?

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-21 03:01 am UTC (link)
He doesn't interact with the heros very much other than to battle them (and briefly kidnap one of them). The time it comes up is the line "Those men must be part of Team Rocket!" And since he functions as a unit with his partner, there's hardly any need to refer to either of them singularly. I don't think they're refered to by themselves in Japanese either, just collectively. And heck, they never even introduce themselves to the heros, only to the scientist who gives them the assignment (who's in one scene and never seen again).

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[info]seiberwing
2008-06-21 03:08 am UTC (link)
Huh...

Yay gender ambiguity.

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[info]blackjackrocket
2008-06-21 03:18 am UTC (link)
What makes it even more bizarre is that, later in the 4Kids run, Pokemon introduced a flamingly gay character, and he was dubbed excellently (granted, his refering to himself in feminine terms was taken out, but that's more of a limitation of the language since we don't have an equivilant to atashi/watashi). But he can't really be mistaken for a woman on sight like Bashou can.

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Re: Digimon spoilers ahead!
[info]alphamone
2008-06-19 10:15 am UTC (link)
nitpick, early DBZ sucked badly due to the fact that they were under saban's thumb, and even after saban left, they had to dub for the same demographic in order not to annoy the lobby groups that complain about everything on tv. But they did slightly change it over time, just compare early season three (orgiginal tv edit) to the tv edit of the kid buu saga. even though they were in full control from season 3 onwards, they had to make changes slowly.

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[info]amarielah
2008-06-19 07:01 am UTC (link)
WORD. So much WORD.

I loves me some Yuugi, and that boy is anything but a pushover.

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[info]tejas
2008-06-19 07:14 am UTC (link)
Comment deleted because I realized I might have broken comm rules. Mea culpa. :-(

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[info]alphamone
2008-06-19 10:08 am UTC (link)
DAMN YOU.

You now have gotten that godawful dic sailor moon theme stuck in my head, except the names and pronouns changed to referance yugi, I hope you are pleased with yourself.

:P

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[info]killyoudead
2008-06-20 01:38 am UTC (link)
I totally am. Though I wish I could remember the words, myself, other than "never turns her back on a friend, always there to defend--".

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[info]disbelieves
2008-06-20 04:37 am UTC (link)
She is the one on whom we can depend~ she is the one named sailor moon!

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[info]irrisia
2008-06-19 10:27 am UTC (link)
...I actually quite liked the DiC Sailor Moon soundtrack. It was just as cheerfully cheesy as a fair number of Japanese soundtracks. Now the SABAN Sailor Moon theme was evil - I think it's still on YouTube.

I think it's mostly a case of authors stuck in their own head - the author can't understand willingly sacrificing so much for the sake of friendship, so they assume there MUST be another reason.

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[info]killyoudead
2008-06-20 01:37 am UTC (link)
Oh, SABAN Sailor Moon. I honestly wish that there was a clean version of that opening so I could rip the song and figure out the lyrics without the random talking and laughing and whimpering over how terrible it is.

... I want to make the opening catch into a ringtone. Oh god.

They seem to have forgotten that this is shonen manga, wherein the main character is almost always a really good role model espousing certain virtues? The theme of the whole series is illustrated with the Yu-Jyo first chapter! How could they miss it when it came in the form of a pun! Woe.

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[info]razorzknight
2008-06-19 11:13 am UTC (link)
Yuugi, after the "ghost" is gone, as shown in the very final duel, is quite a kick-ass duelist and a far better guy than he started off being.

Seeing fics where he's a whimpering little wuss when Atemu/Yami/"He" isn't around, makes me want to challenge them to a duel with my pirated overkill deck (complete with NecroExodia, Rah and Dartz's Seal Of Cheating Like A N00b, three cards I only have around for showoff values.)

Writers: My canon challenges your fanon to a duel! (And your fanon's apparently using Insector Haga/Weevil Underwood's deck. You're screwed.)

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[info]irrhapsodi
2008-06-19 11:15 am UTC (link)
Yes! Where does this whiny little fan-Yuugi come from? Certainly not any incarnation of the manga or anime. You can't blame the 4kids dub for this one, because they didn't slaughter characterization to such an extent.

No, the shallow little fanbrats probably just noted his short stature and grapefruit-sized eyes, and the way he's like, kind instead of crotchety, and said "whimpering, ukelicious, babyboi...kawaii!!1"

Grrrr *froths*

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[info]razorzknight
2008-06-19 11:38 am UTC (link)
I don't know.

Because, you see...

Yugi = Short, cute, harmless = uke.
Kaiba = Tall, grim, professional asshole = uke.
Kazuya/Joey = Brave (to the point of stupidity sometimes,) tall, careless demeanor = uke.
Marik's evil side = Is a psycho, looks like a psycho, talks like a psycho, and has his happy place in his head where he tortures other to the point of madness = uke.
Ryou Bakura = Calm, submissive kid who's quite harmless and is just there to nod and smile at everyone (unless his Dark Overlord side awakens) = uke.

Fanthings make any show look like the Sprite ads. "Characterization is nothing, uke is everything."

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[info]mika_kun
2008-06-19 04:40 pm UTC (link)
I know, I think the way they pick a seme is just figuring out which character out of the pair is less-uke than the other. It makes me laugh though.

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[info]ayumidah
2008-06-19 05:42 pm UTC (link)
... All of it makes me go WHAT? but Marik's evil side being uke just melted my brain =/

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[info]yui_hime
2008-06-19 06:32 pm UTC (link)
I lol'd. Wow, it's been forever.

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[info]pig_catapult
2008-06-19 11:18 pm UTC (link)
Well, for the record, Ryou does seem like the type that would be more comfortable bottoming than topping. He's pretty passive unless his Yami is up to some serious ungoodness.

But Yami Marik? The insane, power-hungry demon crafted in a pit of hate and rage and given access to ancient magics that let him take over people's minds? Bottoming for ANYONE? wtf? o.O;;

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[info]ladyofthesea
2008-06-19 01:00 pm UTC (link)
I loves me some Yami but come ON- how could they do that to Yuugi? There was never, ever any evidence that he'd resort to wrist slicing/sobbing/bemoaning if Yami left him. Yeah he was sad, but he wanted to help Yami remember who he was and that made him feel good. Damn the fanbrats. And damn their yaoi-crazed stereotypes. Meh.

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I SO NEED A YGO ICON WTH O_o
[info]therealkaichan
2008-06-19 01:52 pm UTC (link)
The examples in this rant make me happy =D

... the rant too, because it's TRUE.

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Re: I SO NEED A YGO ICON WTH O_o
[info]nightcrawler_2_
2008-06-22 03:26 am UTC (link)
Icon! =D

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[info]lanjelin
2008-06-19 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Since I'm not American, the only thing I know of the dub is that it changed the names of a lot of characters, which often left me confused about who the hell people were talking about (who's this "Joey" OC, and what did they do with Jonouchi?), but I still think it's more likely the nature of the fanbrat coming into play here rather than dub quality.

I totally agree with you on Yugi's character. I have found some IC fic, but since I prefer Yami/Yugi, Kaiba/Yugi, or Kaiba/Yami/Yugi, a lot of it is about Yugis great depression after losing Yami/Atem. Sure, he's probably sad, maybe even grieving, but I find it very hard to believe it would destroy him.

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[info]danyellalot
2008-06-19 07:21 pm UTC (link)
>>HAS LEFT ME IN DESPAIR *HANGS SELF*.

Don't hang yourself on such a beautiful day! WHAT IF YOU DIED? D8

Poor Yugi. Just because someone's kind and selfless shouldn't make them the uke.

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[info]razorzknight
2008-06-19 08:02 pm UTC (link)
Moreso, he likes to give more than he likes to receive, right? And that's a "seme" thing right there.

Exhibit A pwned the defense. Case dismissed.

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[info]killyoudead
2008-06-20 01:34 am UTC (link)
If anyone ever argued a position on terms of personal preference, I would likely go with it 100%. But if it's solely based on personality traits, then... yes.

Case dismissed indead

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[info]arathine
2008-06-20 01:04 am UTC (link)
... Yugioh + exorism = awesome crackfic in the making o.0

*Shoves manga at the fantards* Hell. *Shoves anything towards the fantards* EMBRACE THE CANONNNNNNNNNN!

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[info]killyoudead
2008-06-20 01:26 am UTC (link)
Are you sure you don't want to just *shove fantards towards things like edges of buildings*? ^^

But yes. I think The Attempted Exorcism of Bakura Ryou / Mutou Yuugi (And The Many Ways it Didn't Work) would be an awesome crackfic. I'd read that.

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