Jeron Kidd ([info]roaringbrute) wrote in [info]fanficrants,
@ 2008-01-13 15:27:00
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Current location:hiding.
Current mood: aggravated
Entry tags:entitlement wheeeeeee, i'm a special snowflake, inflated sense of self-importance, missed intended target liekwhoa, oppresshun! oppresshun!, please please pay attention to me, post off-topic and i'll kill this uke

Why not to join the Organization for Transformative Wank
[info]otw_news had 55+ posts on why the Organization of Transformative Works. They clogged up [info]metafandom and annoyed my friends who are on [info]metafandom for the writing discussion and love of fandom. And it also annoyed those who are annoyed with [info]otw_news so I want 55+ plus posts on [info]metafandom with "Why I did not join theen Organization for Transformative Works." Don't submit to me. Go here and leave the url of your rant as a comment.

And now! My "Why I did not join the Organization for Transformative Works" rant!

I did not join OTW because I'm a guy and OTW isn't about guys. They aren't about equality. People have explained to these women repeatedly. OTW fires back with comments about how they really are.
If OTW really was about including guys, they'd listen to us. They'd listen to women in fandom who find their female empowering statements offensive. OTW keeps shooting back with the "La la la! We are right. You are wrong! You just don't get it!"
OTW doesn't get it. They should be saying "How can we make you feel welcome? What can we do to change this preconception?"

I did not join OTW because they are misrepresenting themselves to fandom. They keep saying that they will protect fandom from legal threats. They say this really isn't what they are about, but just the inconvinent truth that John Scalzi and others picked up on. But Naomi tells us straight up that this legal protection is fiction:

...in an ideal universe, we would never comply with a DMCA takedown notice against a work of fanfic at all. sadly we do not live in an ideal universe, and so when and if we ever get one, a whole lot of practical issues will then arise. this will include stuff like, how much money we have on hand and how much we can raise for a defense -- which of our legal partners is willing to help us and work with us -- what our legal team thinks about the facts of the case -- what the individual fan whose work the takedown notice is being lodged against thinks. ~ Naomi Novik

So while "We envision a future in which all fannish works are recognized as legal and transformative and are accepted as a legitimate creative activity." is in their mission statement, they're not really about that.

I won't join OTW because OTW members keep insisting that they can represent fandom because they've been in fandom a long time. That's great but as an outsider, it looks like the fandom they've been in is highly educated, LiveJournal using, American, English speaking, middle class, white women who believe that fandom is defined by slash fan fiction and the other fandom activities which extend from that.

How else would you describe [info]astolat, [info]angstslashhope, [info]kbusse, [info]cetera, [info]pinkfinity and all the rest with their PhDs, JDs and MAs?

I won't join OTW because they say "defending our work from from commercial exploitation and legal challenge" but they are still on LiveJournal, their base is still on LiveJournal, their main way of communicating is with people is on LiveJournal.

They claim to be about this but they make clear that they aren't going to lobby companies that commercially exploit fandom now. And that isn't some random supporter saying that, but it is their mission statement saying they will and their president saying they won't and refusing to get off a site that they know profits off fanworks.

I won't join OTW because in saying they are for "defending our work from from commercial exploitation and legal challenge," they are effectively condemning the rest of us who have no problems with ads in fandom, who use commercial sites. That's most of us. OTW doesn't seem to get tht. LiveJournal, FanFiction.Net, MySpace, FaceBook, FanLib, Quizilla, DeviantArt are all commercial and represent a lot of fandom.

I won't join the Organization for Transformative Works because they got squat. [info]astolat proposed this back in May. They've got nothing no archive, no journal, no wiki, nothing.

When they get something, it might be worth looking at... but all their masturbatory praise over nothing is getting old and annoying. Yay! CONGRATS! YOU GOT AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT! THAT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING! YAY! And you want a pat on the back?

I won't join Organization for Transformative Works because [info]astolat said free legal advice is more important that fandom goodwill. It leads to the conclusion that Organization for Transformative Works is not about helping fandom but about something external.
If it was about fandom, for fandom, they'd care about what fandom thought about them. (And they would stop telling their detractors that they are wrong. They'd ask how to fix the perception problem they have.)

I won't join Organization for Transformative Works because they're obsessed with how outsiders view them. They define themselves not as fans, but on how others see them. I don't need outsiders to define me. I like to define myself. That's why OTW does that whole "We're women" thing anyway: Because they are allowing outsiders to define them, instead of defining themselves.

OTW is about allowing outsiders to control them because OTW is allowing that stupidity to continue. And willfully. Most fans don't see fandom as gendered at all. OTW should better in market research inside fandom and find out how fans define themselves first. And then respond and represent that: Stop defining yourself externally. Define yourself internally.

But make up your own mind. And then, get your post linked on [info]metafandom because YAY!



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[info]flamingly_fey
2008-01-13 02:30 pm UTC (link)
IN BEFORE TAGS! 8D

Honey, we're not your soapbox. ♥

(Reply to this)


[info]shanaqui
2008-01-13 02:33 pm UTC (link)
I really don't think this is the right place for you to post this. ^^;

(Reply to this)


[info]sirea1182
2008-01-13 02:34 pm UTC (link)
You seem to have some broken code there. Would have saved me the trouble of having to scroll by all the tl;dr.

(Reply to this)


[info]khukuri
2008-01-13 02:39 pm UTC (link)
How dare the female-oriented community not go to greater lengths to talk about the few guys in it! Won't someone think of the poor, oppressed men?

(Reply to this)


[info]skinnyslim22
2008-01-13 02:39 pm UTC (link)
Um...pardon me for being stupid, but could someone explain this to me? All of this?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]wyntir_rose
2008-01-13 02:49 pm UTC (link)
I believe that the easiest translation would be:

"There are these girls want to make fanfiction/art/etc legal. Those same girls won't let men in their club. I'm going to start a one man crusade against these women because, as a (probably) white (possibly) middle class, (maybe) western male I am oh so oppressed. Why won't any of you join me in bringing down this evil women-only club?!! Oh, and I know that they don't let guys in because they won't listen to my ideas!! And you should listen to me because the folks at [info]deleterius like me."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]trudirose, 2008-01-13 03:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wyntir_rose, 2008-01-13 03:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auctasinistra, 2008-01-13 05:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-13 05:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auctasinistra, 2008-01-13 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]coinin, 2008-01-13 03:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auctasinistra, 2008-01-13 05:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hector_rashbaum, 2008-01-13 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-13 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auctasinistra, 2008-01-15 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-15 08:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ediblestars, 2008-01-13 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dacnomaniac, 2008-01-13 09:17 pm UTC

[info]shanaqui
2008-01-13 02:42 pm UTC (link)
You just completely edited this, and it didn't make it anymore interesting or readable. Paragraphs wouldn't hurt, and nor would finding the right community for it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kutsuwamushi
2008-01-13 11:37 pm UTC (link)
Can you tell me how he edited it? Was it to fix errors of form, or was it to erase/cover up content?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shanaqui, 2008-01-13 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kutsuwamushi, 2008-01-13 11:45 pm UTC

[info]amathela
2008-01-13 02:48 pm UTC (link)
Dude.

If you can't get your entry right the first three times you edit it, don't post.

If you're not in the community labelled "My Personal Soapbox For Entirely Off-Topic Discussions," don't post.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]roaringbrute
2008-01-13 02:49 pm UTC (link)
ranting about my inferior posting skills is all well and good, but that's not the point. It's a rant about fandom. How is this in the wrong place?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]amathela, 2008-01-13 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kutsuwamushi, 2008-01-14 02:19 am UTC

[info]amireal
2008-01-13 02:48 pm UTC (link)
Other than being really sure this isn't the community for it, this following:

I won't join the Organization for Transformative Works because they got squat. [info]astolat proposed this back in May. They've got nothing no archive, no journal, no wiki, nothing.

...convinces me that you've somehow missed what they have accomplished and what they're doing and why it might possibly take that long.

(Reply to this)


[info]kahteh
2008-01-13 02:51 pm UTC (link)
What the shit is this?

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[info]_stolendreams_
2008-01-13 02:53 pm UTC (link)
Hey I'm in before mod tags for a change

I don't think this is the right place for this

(Reply to this)


[info]chibirenamon
2008-01-13 02:55 pm UTC (link)
...am I hallucinating, or did the post just completely change? O_o

"I did not join OTW because I'm a guy and OTW isn't about guys." - I'm sure you feel you're making good points (and maybe you are), but that sentence made me facepalm and snicker more than Conservapedia did today. And that's saying something.

Also, I'm not a lawyer, but I think there is a difference between "commercial exploitation" and "posting on a site that finances itself with ads", because last time I checked, FFN and LJ did not exploit me. Sure, they got ads, but those are everywhere and are used to keep the service free. If I don't feel like going there, I won't, and the organization won't steal my stuff to make money. I'd change my view if I suddenly saw my fanfics in a book made by FFN or something, but like this, your argument looks a bit odd.

(Reply to this)


[info]nufaciel
2008-01-13 03:05 pm UTC (link)
You know, it's nice you have your opinion and all, like all the people linked at metafandom. The difference is, they post their for/against discussions in the appropriate place...namely their journals.

This isn't a place to rant about *fandom*. If it was, you'd see rants on every aspect of fandom...vidding, graphics, meta, etc.

This is a rant community about *fan fiction*. Meaning there has to be actual issues with a particular fic or particular aspect of fiction. You're not discussing the horrid OOCness you found in a fic about your OTP, or the dreaded Mary Sue that made your eyes bleed, or even the epithet queen from hell that made you want to spork your eyes out to dull the pain last night at midnight.

I see enough of this linked through meta...I don't want to have to look at it here. I'm here for the rants about fan fic, not your soapbox.

(Reply to this)


[info]ketita
2008-01-13 03:31 pm UTC (link)
I have no clue what this is about, and I don't think I really care.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]nerdork
2008-01-13 03:37 pm UTC (link)
Ditto.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]paperflames, 2008-01-13 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]red_kite_of_edo, 2008-01-14 05:30 pm UTC

[info]last_haven
2008-01-13 03:32 pm UTC (link)
In before tags!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]last_haven
2008-01-13 03:35 pm UTC (link)
BTW, your icon amuses more than it should.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]de_yaten, 2008-01-14 04:39 am UTC

[info]wild_foire
2008-01-13 03:48 pm UTC (link)
In before tags! :D

nyway, I think you have the wrong community. This is for ranting about things in fanfiction that annoy you, not for whatever it is you're going on about.

(Reply to this)


[info]beer_good_foamy
2008-01-13 03:48 pm UTC (link)
get your post linked on metafandom because YAY!

Well, I for one am completely convinced by that argument.

(Reply to this)


[info]chvickers
2008-01-13 03:52 pm UTC (link)
You poor tragic oppressed baby, not being put first as is your usual expected entitled position.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]vytresna
2008-01-13 05:03 pm UTC (link)
If he were a poor black lesbian complaining about a het-based community, I'd be no less annoyed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]generalsmaug
2008-01-13 03:52 pm UTC (link)


...Honey? This is a comm for ranting about fanfiction, not fandom in general. fandom_wank is thatta way!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chibirenamon
2008-01-13 04:14 pm UTC (link)
*stares at picture* Please tell me that was photoshopped (yes, aside from the caption :P). Otherwise, I'll lose all faith in mankind... again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-13 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]half_life_wolf, 2008-01-13 04:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]roaringbrute, 2008-01-13 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hector_rashbaum, 2008-01-13 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2008-01-13 09:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkmanifest, 2008-01-13 06:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]boogieshoes, 2008-01-14 08:27 pm UTC

[info]kahvi
2008-01-13 04:01 pm UTC (link)
You know, I really wish I cared.

Wait.

No. No, actually, I don't.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]iggy04
2008-01-14 05:34 pm UTC (link)
LMAO.

Okay, it wasn't really that funny... but I still giggled at the sarcasm.

:D

Yeah. You can tell I'm bored just because I'm posting a response to an entry that I didn't even read but just noticed the modtags and went "Whoo, troll!", eh? :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]penumbra
2008-01-13 04:10 pm UTC (link)
You know, I see a lot of "in before mod tags", but do I see any speculating on what mod tags we'll be pleasured with?

And when I say "pleasured", I think you know what I mean.

(Reply to this)


[info]toxictattoo
2008-01-13 04:29 pm UTC (link)
Well meaning though this may be, I have to echo the others who say this isn't really the forum for your discussion/rant/opinion on OTW.

I haven't joined and I won't join but for none of the reasons you list. As [info]trudirose said, I'm in this for the fandom and for fanfiction and for porn, not gender (or any other, as a matter of fact) politics.

And I happen to be white, male, middleclass as well, so I get enough of all that out in the real work-a-day world.

I've read the OTW stuff (admittedly, not very deeply, just sort of a skimming motion as I swam by) but I never felt like I was excluded. Do they actually state they won't allow fanfiction written by males? [scratches head] Because that wasn't the impression I got but then see above for skimming and not reading deeply.

There are things being said (even here in [info]fanficrants) that I do take offense at but those are my own private issues and best said on my private livejournal.

Edited at 2008-01-13 04:30 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lassarina
2008-01-13 05:15 pm UTC (link)
They've never stated they intended to exclude males. I'm presently not a member of OTW (mostly due to lack of time), but I'll have no problem joining & posting on their archive when it's up, as an alternative to the Pit of Voles.

Honestly I didn't feel like they clogged metafandom all that much. It's part of my daily reading. Everyone's posting about metafandom, but that's no different than the times when eighty jillion people posted about racism in fandom, or a bazillion posts about bandslash went up. Metafandom tends to get swelled by the topical; it's the nature of the beast.

To the OP: Wrong community, and if MF's coverage of OTW annoys you this much, go ahead and write your own script to pull non-OTW meta posts to compile for yourself. Oh, wait, that would involve work, right? And then you couldn't bitch about the "exclusionary" nature of OTW. Sorry, forgot about that key and important part.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-13 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lassarina, 2008-01-13 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2008-01-13 05:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lassarina, 2008-01-13 05:39 pm UTC

[info]meltedpeep
2008-01-13 04:29 pm UTC (link)
At first glance, I thought this was a clever tongue-in-cheek sort of way of plugging some random community since it was all like "hay guys don't go to *link* 'cause *link* iz ttly lame, a'ight?" But then I realized it was actually supposed to be srs bzns and the magic was gone.

I demand compensation for lost magic, stat.

(Reply to this)


[info]demonoflight
2008-01-13 04:30 pm UTC (link)
It's nice that you're feeling oppressed.

Back to my sandwich.

(Reply to this)


[info]kyatto
2008-01-13 04:30 pm UTC (link)
What is this faggotry?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]toxictattoo
2008-01-13 04:32 pm UTC (link)
comment + icon = coffee out of nose

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]ragtime_wurm, 2008-01-13 11:18 pm UTC

[info]minni
2008-01-13 04:35 pm UTC (link)
Wait... what? I don't think you're clearly conveying your message. Part of being a good writer is good communication and...

Oh, what the hell. Forget it.

(Reply to this)


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