Isidore Rodgers ([info]isidore13) wrote in [info]fandom_flies,
@ 2007-08-05 18:57:00
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Posted this in comments
When I wasn't sure if everyone could post here hee.

SUGGESTIONS VERY WELCOME, AGAIN!

This is a suggestion for posts to help gather other fandoms who might not feel affected by these events.

Hello...

Before I begin I do realise it's rather rude to crosspost a copy/pasted bit of prose like this, and I do apologise, but I have very much to say.

On August 3, 2007, two fanartists who draw in the Harry Potter fandom among others (ponderosa and elaboration) were banned from LJ, their accounts permanently suspended, and are not going to be allowed to create new journals in the future (insofar as LJ can stop them, obviously) because (as quoted from LJ representative, here), though "the content does not meet the legal definition of child pornography", they have "chosen not to host" said content. Please read the link above for the complete letter; I don't want to be accused of taking their words out of context.

Apparently fearful of another backlash like the one which took place in May of this year ("Strikethrough '07") the company (LJ and/or Six Apart) has chosen to recode so that all suspended, banned, and deleted accounts are written in bold instead of struckthrough when the lj user tag is used, and do not appear in friends lists on userinfo pages without clicking on "more details" at the bottom, in what appears to be an attempt to hide what they have done. As LJ/6A has not responded in any public way (the above linked letter was sent privately to a specific user) one can only assume that this is because they are aware that what they have done could and would backlash against them negatively.

Why I am posting this in a non-Harry Potter fandom community, and how it affects you; It begins with one fandom and moves on to another.

1. After Strikethrough, Livejournal apologised in [info]news and made efforts to redeem themselves. They also posted (twice) in [info]lj_biz in response to the requests for clarification. However their posts and comments were ambiguous at best about what would actually get a user suspended.

2. They may not be legally allowed to change the Terms of Service (ToS) without notice no matter what the ToS says. (just above the list of published fictional works)

3. A quote from the same letter as above:

The standard for artistic merit is not whether a work simply has technical merit; it is whether there is serious artistic value that offsets the sexual nature of the content. A group consisting of members of LiveJournal's Abuse Prevention Team, LiveJournal employees, and Six Apart staff reviewed the content that was reported to us. This group decides whether material potentially in violation of this policy warrants consideration for serious artistic value.

In other words, LJ/6A set aside their own group to determine what you are allowed to create, post, and see on their site, and if they disagree, they can delete your entire LJ without any warning whatsoever and ban you from ever creating a new one, entirely according to their whim.

And that is their right. They claimed that right in the ToS you agreed to upon joining.

It is our right to take our business elsewhere.

Which leads to what I'm asking from you (you knew it would come to this):

1. Join [info]fandom_counts. Joining this community will help us know just how much of Livejournal is made up of those people who consider themselves fans. Of anything. Including civil rights.
2. Get informed.
3. Join [info]fandom_flies and assist in any way you can, if you want to do it.
4. Read all the comments here. Comment, if the mood strikes you, whether you agree or disagree. The comment board for this post is now full. You can also comment here.

Doing any one of these will help in ways you can't imagine.

I really appreciate your time.



(Post a new comment)


[info]hobbledehoy
2007-08-06 12:06 am UTC (link)
erm, it's six apart, not six alive.

:: continues reading ::

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 12:07 am UTC (link)
you're so picky!

*edits sekritly*

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[info]hobbledehoy
2007-08-06 12:10 am UTC (link)
hee,
i just brought it up so quickly because i know something little and unintentional like that can make it lose all credibility in some folks' eyes.

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 12:11 am UTC (link)
yeah, i know. it's lovely, isn't it?

thanks *hearts*

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[info]shaggirl
2007-08-06 12:08 am UTC (link)
You're aware that you're posting this directly to the [info]fandom_flies comm, right? We're all very much aware of what's going on.

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 12:09 am UTC (link)
I'm aware, sorry, I'll make it less vague.

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[info]shaggirl
2007-08-06 12:11 am UTC (link)
Okay, just thought you might have meant it to go elsewhere. :)

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 12:12 am UTC (link)
no, i'm just dumb :D thanks for pointing it out

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[info]trulybloom
2007-08-06 01:08 am UTC (link)
I think this is the perfect place for this sort of thing.

I can now post this link to other comms that I'm on and send them here - and here is a good place for people to be gathering right now!

The only suggestion I have is to maybe state the purpose of [info]fandom_counts, so it's clear why they are being asked to join that particular comm - many people still don't know what it is.

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 01:12 am UTC (link)
good idea :D thanks!

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[info]vichan
2007-08-06 05:26 am UTC (link)
Thanks. I'm glad that community is still serving its purpose, and that people are trying to actually clarify the meaning too offset the confusion. (I'm kind of on the fence about clarifying that on the profile page, since it's been translated so many freaking times. O_O)

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[info]justhuman
2007-08-06 01:30 am UTC (link)
The point about Harry Potter fans "being at a convention" is lame. I'm sure there's a big convention going on somewhere, but no convention draws all of fandom.

a. aware that what they have done is something to be ashamed of;

That casts you in the role of mindreader. If anything, I would think that they just don't care. You're basically assigning feelings to LJ's owners without knowing what they are really thinking. This is different from your B point about about the negative backlash because there's basis for drawing that conclusion based on past events.

In other words, LJ/6A set aside their own group to determine what you are allowed to create, post, and see on their site, and if they disagree, they can delete your entire LJ without any warning whatsoever and ban you from ever creating a new one, entirely according to their whim.

Show me a TOS anywhere that doesn't say that. Every internet service reserves the right to cancel an account at any time. Some are very specific about what is and is not acceptable, how conflicts will be resolves and what if any compensation will happen. LJ tends to fail in these categories, but they're really not any different.

I think you'll attract more attention if point at the things in LJ's control that they are not handling effectively

Take the "clarifications" on the TOS - there's two [info]lj_biz posts worth of comments where people asked for better definitions and examples, but didn't get them.

Many of those post also contained people questioning what the procedure would be if a violation was reported - no answers

just my .02

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 01:44 am UTC (link)
1. Very well, it is lame.

2. Baleeted. Er, or will be in a minute.

3. I'm not going to delete the ToS thing. It doesn't really matter that other sites do it, too. What matters, at this point, is that Livejournal is doing it. And I think that needs to be made explicitly clear.

4. You make a good point about pointing out the things under Livejournal's control, and I will do so.

Thank you.

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[info]hoshi3
2007-08-06 01:31 am UTC (link)
chosen to recode so that suspended accounts are written in bold instead of struckthrough

They changed it so that any account that's no longer existing - suspended or deleted - shows up bold if you used the LJ user tag.

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 01:44 am UTC (link)
thank you!

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-06 02:12 am UTC (link)
I don't understand this post at all. This stuff has been posted for days all over?

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 02:13 am UTC (link)
it's posted as a suggestion for what to tell other fandoms who may think these events don't affect them.

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-06 02:23 am UTC (link)
Right, I got that. Sorry I've just seen this several times over since Thursday and was confused. I'm extremely cranky. :(

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 02:25 am UTC (link)
*snugs* in an absolutely honesty concerned way, do you need any other clarification? do i need to add more clarification to the post?

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-06 02:31 am UTC (link)
No, just be patient with the snarky sounding stressed out LJers. :D Which you already did.

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 02:31 am UTC (link)
*snugs more* we is all stressed i fink. understanding is necessary :D

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[info]imaginarycircus
2007-08-06 02:33 am UTC (link)
Agreed.

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[info]yourssincerely
2007-08-06 02:38 am UTC (link)
and do not appear in friends lists on userinfo pages

ponderosa121 still appears on my friends list. And she's struckthrough. I'm not excusing LJ, I'm just sayin'...

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[info]isidore13
2007-08-06 02:41 am UTC (link)
she does and she is. they've changed that.

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