PixelFish ([info]pixelfish) wrote in [info]exmormon,
@ 2005-04-06 11:03:00
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Polygamy Run Amok, and the Culture of Life
Bet you didn't know the world was supposed to end today.

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=191104&nid=5

Anyway, the FLDS have finally scraped enough together to make their very first temple. (That sounds like a Fisher-Price toy. My First Temple! Complete with misogynist patriarchal rule!)

If the United States government wanted to make the world (and more specifically, the United States) a better place, they'd prosecute the living hell out of Warren Jeffs and his followers. The FLDS church has institutionalised slavery in the United States by using religion as their shield. I don't know what else you'd call it when girls don't get to choose what they want from life, but are assigned, willy-nilly, to men, to be broodmares and domestic slaves. When a man leaves the FLDS church, his property and family are taken away by the church and reassigned to others. The FLDS church has their own "law enforcement" which acts as a sort of Mafia. They search members houses to make sure they aren't tainted by TV, newspapers, and other media. They beat up young girls who try running away from their arranged marriages.

They aren't just harmless polygamists trying to live peacefully in Southern Utah. They aren't benign. They suck millions of dollars in welfare from the states that they occupy, and they funnel all that money towards making their church stronger, and consolidating power in the hands of their leader, Warren Jeffs. None of it goes toward the people it is intended to help.

None of the kids has a decent education. They are all taught within the community by those who have gone through the same process. Schooling ends at an early age, and the children are often put to work within the community. Eventually, if you are a girl, you can expect to be married off, and if you are a boy, one of two things will eventually happen. You MIGHT get a wife or two....maybe. If you aren't favoured enough, and particularly if you are catching the attention of the girls any of the higher ups want for themselves, you can expect to find yourself run out of town. These kids often end up on the streets in Vegas or LA, selling drugs or prostituting themselves, without any real clear idea of what they are doing, or why they are breaking the law. They don't even know much about life on the outside before they get there. They just know that Gentiles (non-believers) are the servants of Satan, trying to get to them. They may be brutally stripped of their illusions, or weirdly enough, some may even cling to them after they've been abandoned.

This is a culture that has institutionalised rape in the form of marriage. Girls barely into puberty are forced into marriage. Sisters, mothers, daughters--women are set against each other, ready to compete for the affections of their husbands.

Anyway, this is a snapshot of the lovely culture which has just built its first temple in the heart of Texas. It's not just a few people either. It's not 40 people in Nike shoes or 70 odd Branch Davidians, though of course, numbers alone can not quantify the value of the lives lost. The family of Warren Jeffs alone, including his wives and children, nears the 200 mark. As many as 1500 polygamists are moving to the new ranch where the FLDS temple has been built. Estimates for the population of the Jeffs group range as high as 8000 people though, with another 22,000 belonging to other similar groups.




http://helpthechildbrides.com/articles/prescottcourier.htm

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9879


One disturbing thing which I hadn't come across in my readings before, but which has apparently come to light in the last year, is the existance of the "Babyland" graveyard in Colorado City. Here are the quick statistics on it:

425 graves

56 entirely unmarked child graves

227 child graves all together for a total of 53% children under 10

A high number of children suffering from strange accidents. A disproportionate number of children who just happened to be "run over". A number of children who have just "disappeared". The death rate is particularly high among boy children, ages 11-20.


http://childpro.org/2005/fbi_letter.html - Read this. Chilling allegations about child deaths, punishments, and disappearances.

http://scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0503/S00014.htm - Has a picture of a section of "Babyland".



Anyway, the next time somebody starts ranting about how we need to promote a culture of life in the United States, I'm going to point them at Colorado City, and the people who keep ignoring it. Culture of Life, my ass.



(23 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]estella7
2005-04-06 06:20 pm UTC (link)
The one good thing about them picking up stakes and moving to Texas is maybe the State of Texas won't allow them to get away with all the bullshit that Utah and Arizona do.

Jeffs sounds just like Brigham Young in the sound clips! That sick fucker! Seriously, polygamy in the LDS context makes me so angry.

http://www.myeldorado.net/YFZ%20Pages/YFZ040305.html
http://www.myeldorado.net/

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[info]pixelfish
2005-04-06 06:34 pm UTC (link)
If he sounds like Bigamy Young, that's because he's quoting from him, almost verbatim.

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[info]estella7
2005-04-06 06:36 pm UTC (link)
Bigamy Young. lol

I should have known it was plagiarized. The moron probably couldn't write his own material, or grow his own brain. Grr...

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this is one of
[info]cwrubs
2005-04-06 06:49 pm UTC (link)
the most upsetting posts I've ever read in this community. Don't get me wrong, thank you very much for the information but shit. If there was any inkling of compassion I had left for the church, it is now gone.

Fuck. What is this country coming to? Kick them the hell out.

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[info]pixelfish
2005-04-06 07:15 pm UTC (link)
I think we need to raise media awareness of this issue. Press the people who keep saying that they want to make this world safer from religious extremism. I mean, if they are willing to fight a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, why should we let what amounts to an America Taliban fester in the Southwest of our own country? Why should we ignore the plight of hundreds, if not thousands, of women and children.

One of the articles I linked has another interesting statistic:

In 2000 the population of Colorado City was estimated at around 3000. Of those, only 86 people voted. 86! So much for democracy, eh?

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[info]chai_tease
2005-04-06 07:21 pm UTC (link)
i believe dateline did a story on it about a year and a half or 2 years ago. it was pathetic, one of the highest poverty rates, welfare families, and illeritcy rates in the us is in one county in so utah, where something like 85% of the people are FLDS and in poly households.

i knew a boy in LA who was a street kid who was FLDS. he and i really bonded, i wish i could track him down now days. i am pretty sure he is dead by now, with the track his life was taking. back then i didnt understand exactly what the FLDS church was and why he was there. since then i have learned and i wish i had helped him more.

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[info]blue_sky_miner
2005-04-06 07:04 pm UTC (link)
There is a book many of you have probabyl heard of called
gods' brothel that deals with the subject. While it can seem a little redundant sometimes, it is well worth the read to see what these people are really up to. I loaned it to a friend in california and she now thinks i'm crazy for living here. Had to explain that while "some" mormons still practise it on the side, polygamy is typically witht he even more extreme whackos in the south part of the state....

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[info]silverspar
2005-04-06 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Here be a fine example of "freedom of religion" going too far.

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[info]graveside
2005-04-06 07:34 pm UTC (link)
Seriously now. I'm sure this is exactly what Utah was like back when BY was Prez, and do you know what the US did then? Sent the ARMY to their doorstep.

Seems to me there should be something similar done this time.

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[info]girlgoyle
2005-04-09 01:47 am UTC (link)
I read somewhere that the percentage of Mormon's in the FBI and the Federal government is disproportionately high.

Perhaps that is why these groups are allowed to flourish in the desert?

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[info]blue_sky_miner
2005-04-06 08:26 pm UTC (link)
It could have happened...... Except Bush gets a hell of a lot of political support from this state, so much that he doesn't even have to visit here or campaign to assure himself of victory. Add to that the power of that ol' bastard Sen. Hatch who won't even address the issue of polygamy and you can expect absolutely nothing to be done about it.

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[info]sonetka
2005-04-06 11:08 pm UTC (link)
Hi, I hope you don't mind my stepping in for a moment. I moved to Salt Lake from Chicago three months ago (no, not Mormon, never have been, never will be) and before then I was unaware that any such thing as the FLDS existed; if I had been told "there are some reclusive polygamist communities down south" I probably wouldn't have thought much except "Well, at least they're keeping the crazy to themselves." After arriving here I started seeing mentions in news stories and began reading up on them and realized that the situation was a lot more sick and twisted than than the phrase "polygamous community" generally implies. I realize there have been odd TV specials and so forth, but I never saw any of them and I'd guess most of the country didn't either. I think part of the problem is that people outside Utah just do not know. The only reason the Taliban registered on our minds was because we were reading front-page stories about it all the time after 9/11; before then, some people knew but most didn't really realize the extent of the abuse - the attitude was "Let the religious crazies live like that if they're not hurting anyone." Of course, it was hurting people.

Another thing to reckon with, I'd imagine, is that we've been taught to value states' autonomy greatly - just look at the outrage over the feds trying to interfere in the Terri Schiavo business recently. "How could the federal government try and dictate to the Florida courts?" people asked. Similarly here, if Bush was even aware of the FLDS situation, can you imagine how bad it would look if he started leaning on Utah and Arizona to crack down on these people? The central issue - this is a horrible, abusive situation - would be quickly lost as advocates started screaming about states' rights, talked about freedom of religion being threatened, and so forth. The pro-polygamy women's groups (no, I don't get them either) would be trotted out to talk about what a great thing polygamy is and how THEY never saw anything bad happen and they love their sister-wives blah blah blah. And people not in Utah or Arizona, who had never heard of the FLDS before but still remember what a disaster Waco turned into, would get a general impression of some weird religious sect that wasn't hurting any outsiders and whom the feds were overzealously suppressing because they felt like they had to prove some political point. And of course there would be heartrending stories of small children being ripped from their "loving parents" and given into custody of the Cold, Mean State. Apparently that's what happened after the Short Creek raid fifty years ago; a lot of violins were played about Breaking Up Loving Families, and the government found themselves looking like the bad guys. Even now, in the few months I've been reading Utah papers, every couple of weeks or so there will be the latest story about some many-wived abusive polygamist whose family got broken up and quotes from polygamy advocates about how awful it is that the kids are in foster care.

I realize I'm incredibly new to this situation, so please correct me if I've gotten anything wrong, but as an until-very-recently outsider, I can vouch for the fact that a lot of people are either totally or largely unaware of just what living in the FLDS entails. And considering the sensationalistic nature of the news media (do you really think they'd be able to resist those shots of sobbing mothers saying goodbye to their kids, or outraged quotes by the Alternative, Pro-Polygamy Point of view about violation of religious freedom?) I imagine the general impression that most of the country would come away with was that this was another Waco in the making, and the polls would reflect these opinions. A lot of outside groups would probably jump in as well, on both sides, and you'd better believe a lot of pro-religious-freedom groups would reflexively side with the FLDS. Why not? It gets them face time.

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[info]sonetka
2005-04-06 11:09 pm UTC (link)
(cont'd)

I'm not saying the situation shouldn't be dealt with, but whoever does so will be doing something as thankless as smashing open a hornets' nest, so it's not as cut-and-dried as all that - especially on the federal level, where they've just been given a public-opinion spanking over the Schiavo case. For Hatch, there's a lot less excuse. But maybe the move to Texas is a good thing, in the end - it's not like they ever had polygamy there before, and I would imagine that the nudge-nudge-wink tolerance for it is markedly lower. Of course, they're probably afraid of another Waco as well. Jeffs seems to be a clever guy, unfortunately; he probably knows that by moving to Texas and even HINTING at some sort of Doomsday scenario, the authorities will be afraid they have another Koresh-in-embryo and steer clear.

Again, I'm not saying these people shouldn't be taken off to the lockup and that the government shouldn't do it as fast as possible, just that in terms of publicizing it to the rest of the country, there are, alas, a lot of possible scenarios in which the polygamists could come out looking better to people at large than the Evil, Faceless Government and people could start demanding that the government not interfere. What a mess, all around.

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[info]pixelfish
2005-04-27 05:45 am UTC (link)
Somehow I missed your comments during the initial posting...dunno how, because you certainly had plenty to say and much of it good. I think the difference between something like government interference in the Terri Schiavo case and the polygs is that....well, there were no crimes committed in the Terri Schiavo case, and what was going on was by and large a custody battle. The government intefered in the custody battle because they didn't like the moral choices granted to Terri's husband, which were his to make from a legal standpoint.

However, there is a great deal of illegal abuse and behaviour going on in the polyg communities, and they've positioned themselves so that the state governments have a hard time cracking down on them without cooperation from other state governments and even the feds. What we have here is wholesale abuse, fraud, child molestation, and in some cases, murder.

I think you are definitely right when you say that disentangling this is going to be a thankless and messy job. But as is the case with most thankless and messy jobs, the longer we delay, the worse it's going to get. Take what happened with Short Creek--they've had a generation, or maybe two or three, given the age that they keep taking their wives, added to their population. Children that could have been saved at Short Creek are now part of the problem. It's very sad and very sick...

BTW, as a person with many polyamorous friends, I don't object to alternate family structures--what I object to is when they become perverted and forced, as is the case with most Utah-Arizona-etc polygs....

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[info]sephiroth9611
2005-04-07 03:24 pm UTC (link)
What we need is a blog-storm to raise awareness and bring the light of the Law on this nest of vipers.

I'm absolutely serious. Email major bloggers and get them to go with this story. Bring it to the general attention of the blogosphere and in turn the mainstream media will follow up on it.

Are you guys with me?

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[info]pixelfish
2005-04-07 09:50 pm UTC (link)
I'm with you. Hence the posting. One of my friends linked to my personal journal, but I cross posted here. If any of you want to reprint my post or any of the links or do your own take on it, go right ahead.

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[info]shelaghc
2005-04-08 06:57 pm UTC (link)
Would you be okay with me posting a link to this entry at the Randi Rhodes Message boards?

Also to a few other Air America blogs and boards?

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[info]pixelfish
2005-04-09 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Go ahead. BTW, some other good links are posted within the comments to this thread. As somebody else pointed out, Teresa Nielsen Hayden also has some threads on the subject which are well worth pointing out.

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[info]sylvanfae
2005-04-08 04:53 am UTC (link)
I'm rather busy right now, but I encourage you to e-mail blogs like DailyKoz etc. and ask them to help raise awareness. I don't know where to find them all (I only really know the Koz one). But it sounds like a good idea!

Stupid cults...

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[info]silmaril
2005-04-08 06:14 pm UTC (link)
This did make the rounds---although probably not very extensively---very early last year: Here is an example from Teresa Nielsen Hayden's Making Light.

I don't remember anything coming of it, but I don't know if it really hit the Big-big sites like the Kos. I linked to the article in ML from my own journal, I remember.

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[info]silmaril
2005-04-08 07:46 pm UTC (link)
There is also a very recent commentary article in an Arizona paper (The Phoenix New Times), here. I am glad that Google News gives hits for "Colorado City, Arizona," as this is an issue I would hate to see buried totally.

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[info]cydniey
2005-04-08 10:56 pm UTC (link)
some of the greatest blogs also have open thread entries where you can speak your mind, like a little cyber-town square.

i would hope everyone could take time out to at least post this to their own blog and the appropriate communities each belong to.

you can hit my lj page for the links to some of the better spoken political blogs that are hot right now. links are on the left.

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[info]girlgoyle
2005-04-09 02:22 am UTC (link)
I posted on the open thread on Americablog with a link to this page and a Nwes story

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