Lesley ([info]kinkybeaver) wrote in [info]equestrian,
@ 2005-07-11 15:01:00
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Current mood: aggravated

x-posted
Okay, so my 2 year old gelding has this habit of stopping and refusing to go forward. (His dam has the same habit, and was nearly ruined by an amatuer that allowed her to do this, and encouraged it by backing her. I think it's common of the Encoriva line.)

So today, I was just skimming old issues of Horse & Rider when I found an article by John Lyons on what not to do, and one of the columns was if your horse balked. He says do NOT slap them with your reins, a whip, or reach around and smack their hindquarters. He says it gives them a mixed message because when they bolt, you lean and/or hold back on the reins. Yeah, I guess that's true.

What he says to do is: "Teach your horse to move forward, or speed up, in response to a gentle squeeze or light bump from both legs. Just like every other training cue, this iis one that must be taught through careful training sessions and be practised regularly."

........


IF HE DID RESPOND I WOULDN'T HAVE TO BEAT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!




*Edits* I've been riding him for months, and I'm sure he knows what I want. I've been lightly bumping him with my legs the whole time. He's just ornery!

My use of the word "beating" in this sense was out of humor and mockery rather than malevolence. As far as "beating" my horse goes is using the reins to slap him, etc.

Wow! A joke turned into quite a topic!




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[info]foalstory
2005-07-11 10:09 pm UTC (link)
I don't see anything wrong with what Lyons says. Any horse, no matter how stubborn, needs constant, consistent reinforcement.

beating isn't reinforcement.

If you can’t see the difference, I really hope you find a good capable professional trainer. Good luck.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-11 10:30 pm UTC (link)
Chase (my gelding) knows what I want. I've been riding him for months, lightly bumping my legs as a signal to go forward. I'll be trotting him for 10 minutes, he'll be going along nicely... As soon as I ask for the lope, he stops and pins back his ears, or he bucks, or both. He just gets stubborn and mad. Asking him nicely while he is doing nothing except being a brat isn't going to do anything because he'll know he's getting away with it.

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[info]_dropkickmary
2005-07-11 10:31 pm UTC (link)
i second that

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[info]raithen
2005-07-11 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Just like every other training cue, this iis one that must be taught through careful training sessions and be practised regularly.

This is the important part of what Lyons says. It is actually HUGELY important. At 2 years old, your gelding probably just doesn't understand your cues. He is likely doing everything in his power just to figure out how to balance with this weigth on his back when he is standing still, and so is finding moving with that weight scary and hard. This is LIKELY why he is balking (I'd hesitate to chalk it up to genetics just yet, myself.)

And you are in this BEAUTIFUL place where no one else can "ruin" the gelding for you. You know where he is at and what he knows, and what he doesn't know. Horses are not born just understanding that a gentle squeeze or light bump means "go forward" -- it's your job to teach him. If he is responding nicely to your cues on the ground (personally I am with Lyons and Parelli and a bajillion other trainers that you need responsive horses on the ground to achieve true responsive under saddle), then it's probably less resistance and more confusion that is leading to hte balking under saddle. You might find if you go slow and be patient, he'll be responding in no time.

But please, don't "beat" your guy -- it's only going to create issues that will take a lifetime to undo. And it'll either be you or someone else who is doing the fixing.

If you really feel you need to reinforce your cues to move forward, then carry a dressage whip -- and hit your boot with it, but not the horse. The noise should nicely reinforce your leg aids.

Just remember, at 2 years old your gelding is still a BABY and has tonnes to learn and lots of maturing (psychologically as well as physically) to do. And you have years to help him.

Good luck!! there is nothing like the joy of a young horse.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-11 10:29 pm UTC (link)
No, he does understand. I've been riding him for months, lightly bumping my legs as a signal to go forward. I'll be trotting him for 10 minutes, he'll be going along nicely... As soon as I ask for the lope, he stops and pins back his ears, or he bucks, or both. He just gets stubborn and mad. Asking him nicely while he is doing nothing except being a brat isn't going to do anything.

Thank you, though!

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(no subject) - [info]raithen, 2005-07-11 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-11 10:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fiona64, 2005-07-12 12:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 12:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fiona64, 2005-07-12 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 02:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]echo64, 2005-07-12 02:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fiona64, 2005-07-13 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-13 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-13 06:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-13 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]echo64, 2005-07-13 06:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-13 07:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]echo64, 2005-07-14 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-14 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fiona64, 2005-07-13 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-13 05:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-13 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-13 06:20 am UTC

[info]default_reality
2005-07-11 10:47 pm UTC (link)
he is a BABY. he's probably just confused.

i rode my 2 year old (now 4) maybe 2x a month and it was 97% walking 3% trotting WHEN i rode him. otherwise we were on the ground and usually in side reins.

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[info]remix22
2005-07-11 11:22 pm UTC (link)
he is a BABY. he's probably just confused.
I second this. I'm riding a 12yo TB right now who's recently made the switch from hunter/jumper to dressage. When he gets confused, he stops and slightly pins his ears back, and swishes his tail. The cues are different in each discipline, so he's learning something new and sometimes gets confused.

Just because you've been riding him for "months" doesn't mean he totally understands everything you're asking. Same with the mare you mentioned in a post you wrote earlier; you mentioned she was very green broke, and she probably was stopping and "balking" because she was confused.

Also, being a 2yo, he's probably VERY unbalanced. A 5yo I ride is still very unbalanced at the canter, even though he's ridden nearly every day. The canter is very hard for a horse to lean how to balance himself properly, especialy at the age of 2 - they're still very young and still developing and learning all the mechanics of their own bodies, much less learning how to balance himself AND THEN a rider on top of that. A green horse, no matter what age (read: the mare you mentioned) will act the same way.

Be paitient with him, he's young and learning. He might not calmly pick up a canter/lope for quite awhile yet. And even then, it'll most likely only be a couple strides.

If you insist on cantering him, please be paitient and know that he's not born knowing exactly what you want all of the time. Also, it's easier for a younger, green horse to balance himself in a circle, so try picking up a canter while on a 20 meter circle, and don't ask him to go down the long side until he can properly balance himself in the circle (if you can, try riding him in a round pen). And remember that if he breaks his canter, he's probably not balanced enough to do so.

There's so much happening to his little 2yo body right now. Cantering might not be the best idea just yet, he's probably telling you he's not ready.

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(no subject) - [info]default_reality, 2005-07-11 11:47 pm UTC

[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 12:46 am UTC (link)
Why would he be confused some days and others not?

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(no subject) - [info]default_reality, 2005-07-12 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]default_reality, 2005-07-12 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhiannonjk, 2005-07-12 02:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]remix22, 2005-07-12 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]normandy_shores, 2005-07-12 01:29 am UTC

[info]goddessofrohan
2005-07-11 10:52 pm UTC (link)
I second that...He is to young. A 2 year old! My gosh! Ground work would be fine....but on back and walk/trot/canter/.... Stop and rewind. Let the baby grow up some more and learn to be a horse before you break him.

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[info]itsmyshit
2005-07-12 12:14 am UTC (link)
"I'll be trotting him for 10 minutes, he'll be going along nicely... As soon as I ask for the lope, he stops and pins back his ears, or he bucks, or both."
I agree that this line sounds like a horse in pain, not a stubborn horse. I'd bet money on it.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 12:37 am UTC (link)
He does it at the walk and the trot, also. He does it in the same spots. He'll go for days without doing it, then he'll start again... Haven't you even seen an unbroke horse buck or just get mad when asked to do something?

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(no subject) - [info]alexthegrey, 2005-07-12 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_mew, 2005-07-12 03:07 am UTC
a thought - [info]raithen, 2005-07-12 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-12 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 06:19 am UTC

[info]dressagediosa
2005-07-12 12:15 am UTC (link)
I'm helping start a 3 year old who will do something similar - he'll be going along, sweet as can be, and I'll ask for a little more and he'll slam on the brakes and back up. My trainer is on the ground with a lunge whip, and when the horse stops, my trainer cracks or waves the whip at him. When he goes forward, I praise him like crazy. It's been about a month since we really got him going under saddle, and he's pretty much stopped the stopping.

I always make sure that I'm a little forward in my seat and put my hands up his neck so there's slack in the reins when this happens (partially so I don't catch him in the mouth, and partially so that if he were to go up, which he doesn't often do, I wouldn't crash) :). It's working very well on all fronts.

Something to consider.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 12:45 am UTC (link)
When it gets really bad, my trainer does that, too. It really helps! But I need to work more on it.

Thanks so much.

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(no subject) - [info]default_reality, 2005-07-12 01:19 am UTC

[info]mands_leanan
2005-07-12 12:16 am UTC (link)
He's just a baby, I think you're pushing him too hard. Think of him as a six year old. Would you have wanted to keep running around and around a ring for longer than ten minutes, or did you get tired and/or bored? Carrying a rider (I'm assuming you weigh at least 100 lbs.) is hard work, and even if he's tall and pretty well-developed. Baby workouts should be light, regular, and short; mine didn't even start working on his canter until he was three, and he was a monster growth-wise.

Don't beat him. It'll only teach him that you're as frustrated as he is, and you're not reliable as a trainer. Smacking him around hasn't helped, or fixed the problem, has it? Doing this is just going to sour his temperament; my horse and a number of others I know were almost ruined as youngsters because people expected too much of them too soon and thought beating them would magically make them do whatever you wanted.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 12:41 am UTC (link)
I don't "smack" him around. When he doesn't go forward, I slap him with the reins. It has done a lot more, and gotten what I wanted (going forward) a lot better than me just sitting there and bumping my legs. If I just sit on him and bump my legs, and he doesn't do anything, he's not learning to go forward. If anything, he is learning that my leg bumps aren't signals, or that he doesn't have to move forward when I begin bumping him. Actually, after he bucks and halts, my bumping my legs against his side makes him madder.

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[info]courtneyfiona
2005-07-12 12:36 am UTC (link)
someone JUST TODAY put a post about this on the COTH Forum (under Hunter-Jumpers). Lots to read, check it out: http://chronicleforums.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/7076024331/m/748203396

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 06:56 am UTC (link)
Thank Jesus that Chase hasn't been backing up also!

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[info]brigididid
2005-07-12 12:38 am UTC (link)
Shoot, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that had to go through this stage. When I got my now four year old he had just turned three and was only ridden about twenty times. While he knew cues for walk and trot he still refused to take more than ten steps in each gait without stopping and backing. It probably took us a good six months before he pretty much forgot that stopping and backing is a way out of doing what I ask.

The thing that really worked for him was riding in a roundpen and having my friend in the middle with a lunge whip. It didn't take him long to pair my kick with the move-forward idea and pretty soon he actually took a liking to going forward. :p

Good luck with him. :)

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 12:43 am UTC (link)
Thanks. Yeah, when he REALLY refuses to go, my trainer stands in the middle of the ring with a longe whip. It's a lot better, and we get a lot more done.

The nice thing is that the judge is in the center of the ring at horse shows. :]

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[info]xxloveispainxx
2005-07-12 01:36 am UTC (link)
I suggest drawreins to keep his head down from bucking if you want to go to extremes, and spurs. Push him up, forward, and into your hands, even if you're doing western pleasure or something, try long trotting him around. It helps build muscle, and if he gets it that he has to "GO" when you ask him to slow down it'll be a relief.

But if I remember correctly, you said you were training your Appendix to do hunt seat, right? Again, I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this, but most of the QH trainers on the circuit tie their horses around in situations like this. Throw a western saddle on him, put the reins between his legs, and tie them up on top of the saddle. Round pen him until he does what YOU want. Doing the reins this way is the same thing as side reins, so you could use those too if you're more comfortable with that. This way the horse fights with himself, and not you.

Try making the kiss sound whenever you ask him to lope off while lunging. The just make the kiss sound when you ask, and he eventually should go right off. Most of the time this will transfer into the saddle.

Honestly, just mess around with him. He's a baby, and QHs are such well minded horses that you can do pretty much anything to them and then train them back to the way you want. Try a bunch of different things. See what works. There's really no right and wrong way to do it. If it works, it's right.

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[info]remix22
2005-07-12 01:42 am UTC (link)
Throw a western saddle on him, put the reins between his legs, and tie them up on top of the saddle.
OMG - NONONONO

And I don't suggest using draw reins on a 2yo, especially if the rider doesn't know how to use them. Same with spurs.

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(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 01:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 03:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]itsmyshit, 2005-07-12 04:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 12:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]remix22, 2005-07-12 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]remix22, 2005-07-12 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xxloveispainxx, 2005-07-12 02:33 am UTC

[info]choices_made
2005-07-12 01:37 am UTC (link)
i have to agree with what everyone else has been saying about maybe you are expecting too much too soon as he only is a two year old and still very unbalanced and growing, or maybe even him being in pain.

i also keep seeing you say that when he does this you bump him with your legs....try keeping a STUDY pressure on his sides, not kicking/bumping...this has worked for me in the past, i had a horse with a very similar problem and having a very younge rider on him letting him get away with this didnt make it any better...whne i started ridding him and he would do it i would sit there and apply constant pressure with both my legs until he moved forward, no smacking him wiht the reins, although i did carry a dressage crop with me at first and liek soemone else above said hitting your boot helps :)

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[info]starsand
2005-07-12 01:40 am UTC (link)
I started reading everyone elses, and while I agree on the not "beating" your horse part, as in leaving lacerations, welts, ect. I don't see too much harm in carrying a crop or dressage whip with you.

The horse, Leo, I've been riding does the same thing, stops, rears, bucks, spins and runs me to the gate and will stand there. He's barnsour and lazy, and I ride him with western cloverleaf spurs.

I have read some Lyons, Parelli and all that, and I agree with the whole idea of developing respect, but I've always thought that some of that has to entail a little bit of dominance. So long as you aren't scarring your horse, leaving welts, or continuously and relentlessly hitting him, you could try giving him a little tap with the crop or a whip as a "hey listen to me" thing.

Chances are if he is listening when you do smack him with the reins a little, he just needs an extra push. Maybe try light spurs that you can use as an aid? I know most of the Quarter Horses I ride are spur-broke.

But, do what you are comfortable with and what seems to work. I know everyone got on your ass about the beating comment, but I think I understand where your coming from, and I don't agree that patience and light taps will always work.

If nothing else works, maybe you could use a carrot and a fishing pole? Or would that be cruel for food deprivation?

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 01:58 am UTC (link)
lol! Thanks so much for being so civil.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]starsand, 2005-07-12 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 02:36 am UTC
!
[info]bloodyknees
2005-07-12 02:31 am UTC (link)
You twit, riding a two-year-old.

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[info]phoenix_igniton
2005-07-12 03:02 am UTC (link)
what the hell is wrong with riding a two year old?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-12 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 06:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-12 05:06 pm UTC
Re: ! - [info]blackmarketpony, 2005-07-12 04:25 am UTC
Re: ! - [info]bloodyknees, 2005-07-12 05:46 am UTC

[info]sithly
2005-07-12 02:42 am UTC (link)
I don't think you're out of line for giving your horse a smack for willful disobediance, but the John Lyons quote only addresses half the issue. You're right: if all you do is bump lightly with your legs all the time, the horse will soon tune you out. But there's a lot more to that method. Here's how it works:

Every time you ask your horse to move forward, you START OUT asking very softly. If the horse ignores you, then you increase the aid until you get a step forward. You start out with a light squeeze and eventually progress to kicking as hard as you can. Progress slowly if the horse doesn't know the cue very well. If he already knows it, you can go straight to kicking (IF he doesn't respond to the light squeeze).

There are two keys to the exercise: One is that you do not quit until you get some forward movement. Don't give up. The other is that you do quit the second the horse offers even the slightest forward motion. Even so much as a lean. With repetition and good timing, you will teach your horse to be more sensitive to leg.

Once you have that sensitivity established at the walk and trot, it's much easier to get the canter if you use a patterned exercise. I've had a lot of success with the "D Exercise" (so named because you ride a D shape in the arena). I think it will really work for your horse. Here's how it works:

Imagine an arena set up with dressage letters. A is your stopping point. Say you're working the left lead. Walk around the corner to B; turn left at B to cut straight across the arena. Pick up a brisk trot at X, and trot back around to A. Stop at A and rest for about 30 seconds or so. Repeat this exercise until the horse is really anticipating the stop. At that point, you simply speed it up, asking for a lope at X instead of a trot. If you get even a stride or two of lope, stop and rest at A for a good, long while as a reward. Gradually step it up, until you get the lope precisely when you ask for it and can lope all the way to A.

This exercise is immensely useful for a lot of different things. Most importantly for you, it will help get rid of that resistance. Your horse can predict the pattern, so he knows that he doesn't have to lope very far. He'll be much more willing to move forward if he knows there's a resting point at the end of it. He won't take off on you because he's anticipating the stop (even if the horse is not a runaway, this translates into better balance because he's not rushing). Unless he has physical issues, he will almost certainly pick up the correct lead. Then there's the added bonus of really improving the quality of your stops and starts.

Once you have the canter cue well established in the D Exercise, the next step is to vary the stopping point. Lope a few strides longer, then stop. Do that a couple times, then go a few strides shorter and stop. Then you can vary the starting point, until finally you can ask for a lope anywhere in the arena and lope for as long as you want (better to do short distances at first).

Hope this helps. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]starsand
2005-07-12 02:52 am UTC (link)
I know this wasn't my post, but I'm definately going to try that idea!

I do agree with your expansion on Lyon's advice on the light movement progressing to tougher movement. I think I read that article and he really left that out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-12 03:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 03:14 am UTC

[info]erindelicious
2005-07-12 02:54 am UTC (link)
i had a problem like that with my mare when it came to cantering. she'd respond to my leg for the trot no problem. but as soon as i would start the canter que she'd pin her ears and sometimes KICK at my leg.
how did i fix it?
i kept asking, and kept making her do trot-canter trasnsitions. eventually she caught on and i dont have that problem any longer.

that was probably the shortest reponse eh? :) good luck!


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[info]sithly
2005-07-12 03:15 am UTC (link)
Well, this community was about due for some snotty drama-queen shit. Sorry you had to be the victim.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 06:11 am UTC (link)
lol. I actually kind of find it amusing, especially when I'm being called a twit. heeheeehee. lol. I just hope people don't hold hard feelings.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dressagediosa, 2005-07-12 11:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sithly, 2005-07-12 11:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhiannonjk, 2005-07-12 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]risk_misery, 2005-07-20 11:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhiannonjk, 2005-07-20 01:29 pm UTC

[info]_kirbylicious_
2005-07-12 04:43 am UTC (link)
This is why I never really post in this community. I love reading it, and comment every now and then, but shit like this is ridiculous. Sorry it had to happen to you.

(Reply to this)


[info]skittlewoman
2005-07-12 05:20 am UTC (link)
Don't you love it when people get so caught up in telling you what you shouldn't be doing and how horrible the "wrong" approach is that they fail to give you constructive and helpful ideas about how to proceed with the real issue/problem?

I'm not saying, I'm just sayin'.

;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-12 06:09 am UTC (link)
Oh yes. All I can do is continually go to the barn every night to beat my horse, because I'm just so ignorant and no one helped a lost soul like me. :[

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]skittlewoman, 2005-07-12 06:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinkybeaver, 2005-07-12 07:27 am UTC

[info]sienapsyche
2005-07-12 11:57 am UTC (link)
As far as xxloveispainxx 's horses and their headsets go, she is right they are in the proper place for AQHA breed show hunters. Granted it is not my favorite look in the world but that is how they are supposed to look and if she went in there looking any other way they would laugh her out of the ring.

As far as this horse, I have seen horses who buck in the transitions because they have been bottled up in draw reins for so long, so I don't think they are the best option. PLus he is only two and if he is not mature enough yet to understand leg=canter, than he is probably not ready to understand draw rein pressure.

I don't have a problem with flicking your horse on the butt with a whip once if they don't respond to your leg. What is the saying ask,tell,demand. Dressage whips are especially handy because you don't have to switch your reins around

I would of course make sure the horse is in no pain first, does he do it free on a lunge, I mean he is young he could just be excited.

I doubt the public would take it well if John Lyons wrote that people should whack their horses if they don't go forward, I think he is suggesting trying to ask politely as a first approach, you know to see if the horse will respond to that light an aid.

Finally I'm pretty involved with breed show Arab's through regionals and nationals(thats as high as we go) and my trainers have pretty much all tied heads. In this case I can't see it helping his bucking problem but as far as for anything else I don't know how to achieve the QH hunter look so it may be an viable tool idk. Personally I prefer stall bitting so they can't run around like a maniac and get themselves all sore.

So that was my thoughs, since everyone else got to share.

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[info]goticacavalla
2005-07-12 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Okay yeah there are a lot of posts here so you may have already read this, but thought I'd add my two cents.

Turn them. When my filly would stop I would just turn her circles, get the momentum going cause if you pull them off balance they can't help but move, then send them out of the circle business going the same direction in which they stopped.

Many a joke have turned to many a topic around here it seems.

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[info]kinkybeaver
2005-07-13 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I do that especially when he tries to buck. His dam was almost ruined because a woman riding her let her stop and didn't keep the momentem, and if she did punish her it was backing her. Chase's dam took three months of training before she was ridable after that.

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