starshrew ([info]starshrew) wrote in [info]egl,
@ 2008-12-03 00:52:00
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A few questions directed at Western lolita
Hi everyone,
I'm doing a paper on the intersection of journalism and Western lolita and I was wondering if a some of you had some time to answer a few questions I have.

How well or badly do you feel lolita has been portrayed in Journalism? Specifically in news organs that cater to a more general public and not things that are targeted to the gothic or anime subcultures. Below are some articles I’ve come across in my research.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/nyregion/thecity/28trib.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/fashion/13GOTH.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE48S1Z220080929
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/articles/i-new-york/68741/lolita-fashion
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=5480547
http://jezebel.com/367519/the-gothic--lolita-bible-japanese-girls-are-living-dolls
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/around_town/fashion/From-Japans-Sidewalks-to-NYC-Streets-Sweet-Lolita-Fashion.html
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/general/candycolored-fairy-tales-lolit/

There has been a recent upswing in creating magazines for Western lolita. i.e.: the English GLB, Sucrerie, and La Vie En Rose.
How well do you feel these publications serve(d) their readers?
Do you feel more could be done?
Do you think they serve the same role as lolita magazines in Japan?
Might they even cause a divergence in the lolita style between what is worn in Japan vs. what is worn in English speaking countries?

Many lolita keep blogs. Do you turn to any in particular?
If yes, how do they affect your lifestyle?
Do any of them fill the role that a lolita fashion and/or lifestyle magazine would?

I know this gets asked a lot but how often do you wear lolita in public and how familiar have people been with it?
If they have heard of it before, where did they first learn of it and what did the think of it before you did any explaining?
In what way did their understanding of lolita differ from what you feel is correct?

Thank you so much everyone!

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[info]celticfreefall
2008-12-03 06:22 am UTC (link)
I guess it depends on what kind of time frame you're looking at. In the past we've been treated pretty poorly. In general, lolita is generally treated as a novelty subject. Like talking about furries, Civil War reenactors or the 501st Legion. A look at those "odd people doing interesting odd things". Though, lately, the journalistic attention to fact, detail and fair representation of the community rather than novelty has improved somewhat. The article in the New York times is a great example and seems to be part of a trend towards journalists treating us as more of a fashion movement than a wild costuming society. The Gothic and Lolita Bible is now available in English and is being distributed in mainstream stores like Barnes and Nobles and Borders.

I can't really comment on the publications, since I haven't been buying them XD

I don't read lolita blogs. I have my own particular style, and it my view of lolita isn't really influenced by blogs as much as it is historical fashion and the mainstream fashion brands. I'm not really aware that many of them do, unless you count this community as a whole. EGL, LolitaFashion.org and other communities have a pretty large impact on people, their perceptions of the fashion, and their general factual knowledge there of. From new to older and more experienced lolita, the fashion is driven by the community opinion and trends many times.

I rarely wear lolita in public, mainly because I just don't have the time. I've been a follower of lolita fashion for going on five years now, and am very familiar with it. If people have heard of it before, I usually find out that they have come in contact with it through Japanese animation or an interest in Japanese music, specifically Visual Kei. They usually think that it is a "costume", or a version of stage costume or cosplay from anime. This would be inaccurate, because lolita is a fashion and not a form of costume - or imitative outfit meant to look like a fictional character or musical stage costume. Still others are under the misconception that it is a fetish costume; it isn't. Others already know that it is a fashion and have few misconceptions.

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[info]celticfreefall
2008-12-03 06:23 am UTC (link)
*Times

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[info]celticfreefall
2008-12-03 10:19 am UTC (link)
God my composition sucks. Scratch the redundant third sentence generally too. >_>

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[info]celticfreefall
2008-12-03 10:23 am UTC (link)
God my composition sucks. Scratch the redundant third sentence generally too. >_> And I meant to tack onto the first paragraph: I think the exposure of publications like the English GLB and the larger mainstream acceptance of anime and manga are making it more acceptable to view lolita as "normal" and a "fashion choice" rather than eccentric and niche.

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[info]ellorgast
2008-12-03 07:24 am UTC (link)
You might want to number these or something.

Journalism: I basically agree with what [info]celticfreefall said. What I really enjoyed about the New York Times article wasn't the article itself, but the slide show where the girls themselves were given opportunity to speak. It's that whole question of representation, where any time you have an outside party describing a strange group of people, they are going to sound like some armchair anthropologist describing this quaint group of savages to the masses. I think journalists themselves are getting better, but I still find at least one mistake in every article.

Magazines:
I think they're good for what they are. There were so many fears about the English GLB being some incarnation of Shojo Beat, or misrun by a bunch of corporate higher-ups who know nothing about the fashion, but I think a couple of really dedicated lolitas on the editorial team made it work. The other two publications are/were low-budget (or no budget) indie magazines with a lot of heart. I think they all serve the community in different ways.

The magazines and mooks in Japan are available in pretty much any bookstore, while I think a lot of English-speaking lolitas still have trouble getting ahold of these magazines. I think Borders stocks the GLB in the US, but at this point I still haven't found it anywhere offline in Canada without having to order it. Unlike in Japan, the English community is spread across much of the world, so we're much less connected by the magazine than we are by online communities.

I think the online community is already causing a divergence in lolita style. From what little I read about lolita in Japan, there are slight differences in the way we wear our lolita from how they wear it. I think that will just continue, as western lolitas are increasingly confident about their ability to make their own rules, rather than looking to Japan for answers.

Blogs:
http://yumemiru.wordpress.com/
http://dollpart.wordpress.com/
http://lolita-charm.blogspot.com/

I don't read blogs for lifestyle reasons. I read them for interesting thoughts and opinions which are more formally thought-out than they usually are in a community setting.

I don't think any single blog completely fills the role that a magazine would, because a magazine holds so much content and so many different voices at once. But I do read them for the same reasons that I would read, say, Vogue or something. I find that the ones I listed often have more meaty topics than most lolita magazines get into. I guess that's what lolita publications could use more of, is a little more debate and self-analysis.

Wearing lolita: Normally I wear it maybe once a week or once every few weeks. Way more in summer. People aren't familiar with it at all, outside of cons.

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[info]bucktick
2008-12-03 08:06 am UTC (link)
"The magazines and mooks in Japan are available in pretty much any bookstore"

the alternative magazines like GLB and kera are generally only available at "chain" type large scale bookstores in japan; the equivalents of barnes and nobles or borders.

I've lived in at least 2 areas of japan so far where I had to take the train many stops to find a chain bookstore any time I wanted to locate those kinds of magazines as all the local booksellers did not carry them.

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[info]ellorgast
2008-12-03 09:41 am UTC (link)
That's good to know, thanks. I only briefly visited one city in Japan, and I just remembered GLBs being prominently displayed and easy to track down. So it's probably as attainable as it is in the States, but not necessarily the rest of the world.

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Sorry if this is really long...
[info]getagirl
2008-12-03 03:34 pm UTC (link)
I liked these articles...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/nyregion/thecity/28trib.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=5480547
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/general/candycolored-fairy-tales-lolit/

and I think this article was the worst ever...
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/articles/i-new-york/68741/lolita-fashion
...the comments posted about the article were all acurate and somewhat made me laugh at the author because the truth of the comments made about how his article showed he did not do his reserch and stated no REAL understanding about Lolita fashion.
Most other articles I just couldn't stand how they seemed to always link Lolita fashion to anime, manga, cons or cosplay....like this one...
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE48S1Z220080929
...that also mentions it to be liked to role play. I do not know anybody that role plays in Lolita fashion...cause any Lolita not being herself even while wearing BRAND is cosplay.
While there are Lolita that also have interests in anime, manga and like to go to cons it is not a reason for them to wear Lolita fashion. Most likely Lolita attends a con is because it is an opportunity to meet other Lolita attending an orginized Tea Party, a Lolita fashion show and maybe to buy a new Lolita item at a dealers both selling real Japnese BRAND like AP, BtSSB or Metamor...or some cute affordable off brand.

I also had come across this article which I find pretty well writen...
http://www.articlesbase.com/art-articles/responsive-japanese-the-acceptance-of-gothic-lolita-265028.html
...she dose mention a mix of innoccence and sexulaity in the youthful look of Lolita but, no matter how anyone dresses somebody will find any fashion style sexual...it is a matter of preference. I myself as many others that dress in Lolita do not find it really have anything to do with sex...I like to dress in Lolita because it is pretty and it makes me happy. Since I am getting older I only wear Lolita maybe once a week and most days I am wearing my BRAND Lolita items mixed with my everyday wear. I do seem to recieve many compliments on my BRAND Lolita stuff...most people just say ,"Oh what a cute headbow(or skirt or sweater...etc), where did you get it?" I just reply ,"Thank you, I bought it at a Japanese shop online." and I usually will not explain anymore than that cause most of the time they will not get it...unless they mention knowing about Japanese Lolita fashion and EGL on Lj and have knoledge about BtSSB or Metamor...so far has been about only 3 people in the last 6 years. Usually if they do know anything of Lolita fashion they seem to understand what it is and what it is not.

As with the Lolita mags...I have never read any of the Japanese or english verions of the G&L bibles...though I have seen many scans of the bibles online. I have bought the only 2 isses of La Vie En Rose when they came out and they were pretty good but, thought they could have better composition in thier photography and more street snaps but, there articles were good. Recently had seen Sucrerie last night and thought it was very good. They had better compostion in thier photography...though still wished to see more street snaps and more "How to" articles on makeup or hair, baking...maybe featuring some interior design or showing off great non Lolita clothing items that go well with Lolita...ect...stuff like that.
All together I think the American versions I have seen seem not up to par with the Japanese versions most likely because they do not have the funding or the time to make it great.

I peek at a few Japanese Lolita blogs to mainly see thier coodinates since I cannot read Japanese. It dose not affect my lifestyle, I am just interested how any other Lolita put together an outfit...though in Japan they seem not to do so much experimentation as the Western Lolita do...they seem to stick with BRAND on BRAND while Western Lolita seem to do more non-Lolita elements with BRAND while still upholding the Lolita aesthetic.

Have fun and dress in Lolita (^o^)

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[info]amanikitty
2008-12-03 03:57 pm UTC (link)
Certainly some of the links that you have provided have a pretty good representation of the fashion, though obviously things like the Time Out NY has horrible interpretation. I suppose good things top the bad, but either way, more people know about it -somewhat- and look at it in a negative or a positive light.

Some of the magazines are... nice. I'm not really impressed in majority though the contents may be a little nice, but magazines never really caught my interest, with the exception of the Japanese volumes that have the more updated stuff and give me website links or other things that would help me find a shop and look at their content on whatever website. English magazines don't usually do that for me.

While things like the English GLB is nice, it surely can improve because as far as I see, I don't really have a good enough reason to buy it. Content-wise and price-wise. They may serve a good purpose to some people, but at the same time I've still seen the fashion done poorly at the same time. While they influence dedicated lolitas, I doubt that you'll really see a change in the style in the Western style only; I think at the end of the day, many girls look to Japanese sites and magazines to see the latest trends and if they want, they'll follow up on it.

As for blogs, the only one I really look at is Lolita-Charm, I haven't had time to look and bookmark anyone else's. While they're a very good read and I agree or disagree to what the blogger is saying, it doesn't take an influence on my own lifestyle. I think the only thing that really influences me is my perspective on fashion and lifestyle as a whole.


I wear lolita in public pretty often, and I'll usually get stares more than anything. Despite being in New York City, with the news articles out and whatnot, people obviously don't really recognize it. And most don't really ask, either. If they do, I'll answer; some of them think it's cute, some of them will be trying their best to not just burst out in laughter in my face, but either way I just keep moving on to where I have to go. Rarely do I have someone come up to me and know Lolita. I think only 2-3 people have done that, and about 2-3 people actually got the idea of where the style sprouted from. Either way, 99.9% of them just seem to still find it as a costume rather than an actual style.

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[info]blahh_0o
2008-12-03 05:43 pm UTC (link)
There has been a recent upswing in creating magazines for Western lolita. i.e.: the English GLB, Sucrerie, and La Vie En Rose.
How well do you feel these publications serve(d) their readers?
they're alright, however i only have one GLB in english (more on the way though =) ) so i can't really comment

Do you feel more could be done?
from what i've seen they serve their purpose fairly well

Do you think they serve the same role as lolita magazines in Japan?
I guess, although in Japan it's slightly more popular and ( i assume) you can just go to a shop and buy it in most places (certantly in tokyo) but in england it's more of an effort to get them and only the 'hardcore' lolitas who are serious about the fashoin and really want them really bother.

Might they even cause a divergence in the lolita style between what is worn in Japan vs. what is worn in English speaking countries?
probably not, a lot of what's in the english magazines is translated from the japanese version, and the brands featured are the same, but different cultures could interpret the fashion in different ways and maybe the english versions will develop in a different way and it will change from the japanese version.

Many lolita keep blogs. Do you turn to any in particular?
nah, i don't. although i do go on lolita blog communities (like this one lol)

If yes, how do they affect your lifestyle?
they don't really. IT means I meet up with other lolitas (and do lolita-esque things?) and I buy clothes from them, but that's about as far as it goes. although it has inspired me to learn to sew.

Do any of them fill the role that a lolita fashion and/or lifestyle magazine would?
nope

I know this gets asked a lot but how often do you wear lolita in public and how familiar have people been with it?
as often as my fairly limited collection of lolita clothes allows. I wear it anywhere and anywhere. people in my school seem to be fairly familiar with the fact that I dress a bit oddly but only my friends actually know what it is and sometimes i get rude comments from the lower years. i also get odd reactions on the street or 'looks'. although one time this guy came up to me and was like 'gothic lolita, right?, i used to have a friend who was into that' and then he went.

If they have heard of it before, where did they first learn of it and what did the think of it before you did any explaining?
as before the guy had a friend who used to wear it. one girl was like 'aww like those cute girls in japan! they're really cute!' but mostly they're like wtf

In what way did their understanding of lolita differ from what you feel is correct?
they never really have an understanding of it. sometimes they think it's some kind of cosume (have been called little bo peep several times while walking around school) and some people seem to think it's sexy (which i still don't get). noone seems to mention 'the book' but my dad gives me greif about that. he just sees it as some weird fetish thing which i don't understand and so innocently wear it while attracting the wrong attention. but i don't really get that kinda attention a lot (that i know of!). mostly people just think i'm a freak =P

rambled a bit lol, hope it was useful!

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[info]jessiekaterose
2008-12-03 08:09 pm UTC (link)
90% of the outsider articles I've seen on lolita were poorly done, in my opinion. There was one recent one that was good, though, I can't remember which and I don't have time to look through the list, sorry.

I really like that we have the GLB in English now, and Sucrerie's first issue was pretty good. I did not like La Vie En Rose, I bought both issues before they went bankrupt. I don't think any more magazines should be made, I think we have enough. I'm not sure if Sucrerie will last when we have the bible, and with both of them, if another one was made I wouldn't read it. It would probably also take attention away from Sucrerie and make it less likely to work out. Since the GLB has just as much or more translated content from the original bible than new things, I don't think it will divide us. Even if it didn't, I really don't think it would divide us.

I only read two blogs, and they're Violent Acre's and Princess Skye's, and Violent Acre's has nothing to do with lolita. Princess Skye's blog helped me to better understand the "lolita lifestyle" a while back when I thought it was about, "You have to act this certain exact way and blah blah." It inspired me to try and be a better person, and do a bunch of other little things like dig up my old Serendipity books. (My favorite books from when I was little, she mentioned them somewhere in her blog a long while back.)

I wear lolita about once or twice a week. Now that I have a sewing machine determined to be wearing it to school every day when winter break is over and I go back to school. (I'll have to get done a lot of sewing, though!) I've only ever had one person whom I didn't already know recognize the fashion and come up to me and ask about it, she told me that her older sister dressed in lolita fashion sometimes. I've never gone through the trouble to give a good explanation of the fashion to someone.

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[info]chawpstix
2008-12-03 09:44 pm UTC (link)
The ones from the New York and LA Times are all quite nice. They seem respectful of lolita as fashion, rather than just misguided rebellion.

Both the TONY and Reuters articles made me upset, though...

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[info]faithfulmoder
2008-12-03 10:28 pm UTC (link)
How well or badly do you feel lolita has been portrayed in Journalism?

I think it's been hit or miss: as with a lot of "subculture" soft pieces, it all depends on the author what sort of slant you get. Those who are genuinely interested in portraying their subjects as objectively as they can tend to do their research more. Those who go after (or are told by their editors to go after) the sensational angle tend to be the ones to put out really poorly written but "exciting" pieces, the "hur hur, look at the freaks!" fluff.

There has been a recent upswing in creating magazines for Western lolita. i.e.: the English GLB, Sucrerie, and La Vie En Rose. How well do you feel these publications serve(d) their readers?

As the founder of La Vie, I have a fairly unique perspective on this question. ;)

I think all three aimed to serve the community in different ways. The GLB has a large budget, full-time staff and the legal team and connections to really get involved with the Japanese designers and such, and so they tend to cover the readers' needs for the Big Designer Names and so on.

La Vie was a grassroots community effort by and for Western Lolitas to give them a voice back when they had none in print (we predated the GLB by half a year and were the first English-language print magazine for Lolitas): when we shut down (due to my personal bank account no longer being able to sustain the strain and myself no longer being able to juggle it with my full-time job) I said, and still feel, that one of our biggest contributions was to show other Lolitas and folks in general that you can accomplish a lot without having a lot. :) We received a lot of positive responses from our readers (and the occasional hate mail as well), but I would have loved to kept it going and improving to give our readers more of what they wanted as we grew.

Sucrerie, I feel, has gotten off to a great start, and it shares the same grassroots background as La Vie, as far as I know. I think it gives Western Lolitas a voice independent of corporate interests and could definitely grow into a solid alternative to the GLB.

Do you feel more could be done?

Bank robbing? In all seriousness, I'd love to see Sucrerie get the same budget and full-time staff the GLB has. :) It's what held La Vie back in a lot of ways.

Do you think they serve the same role as lolita magazines in Japan?

That's tricky. However, having lived in Japan for nearly five years, I can tell you the GLB's obsession with brand isn't anything related to Lolita: the Japanese consumer expects and gets an overwhelming amount of advertising and materialism pushed at them 24 hours a day from all angles.

So I don't think La Vie or Sucrerie serve(d) the same main purpose the GLB does: telling you what to buy and when and where. I think they provide(d) more of a community voice for Lolitas without the overt commercial interest.

Might they even cause a divergence in the lolita style between what is worn in Japan vs. what is worn in English speaking countries?

Not really. I think the difference is there already: in Japan you usually dress head-to-toe in one brand, whether it's Goth, Lolita or other things. (I was actually shunned by a couple of girls once at a get-together once they found out I had mixed brands in the outfit I was wearing). In the West, you see a lot more mixing and homemade items.

Many lolita keep blogs. Do you turn to any in particular?

Nope.

I know this gets asked a lot but how often do you wear lolita in public and how familiar have people been with it?

I usually do Aristocrat, which is assumed to be Western Goth, which is pretty well-known and ignored at this point. ;)

Whew... sorry for all the rambling! Good luck with your paper. :)

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