The Traveller ([info]travlr1) wrote in [info]discord_society,
@ 2006-09-16 10:20:00
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Current location:Dysnomia

ERIS NEEDS A (Planetary) SYMBOL.
Fellow Popes, Priests, and Saints:

I have noticed that our new dwarf planet (they prefer to be called 'little planets, but anyway), Eris, does not have a symbol. Ceres has a symbol [here]. But our Lady of Discord does not have a symbol [as seen here in this chart]. WTF!?
the keyblade of Eris
Might I suggest to our scientist people who make up these astronomical and astrological symbols perhaps something like the greek letter "K", but backwards, for "Kallisti", the words inscribed on the Apple of Discord?
the five fingered hand of Eris

or

If not that, then perhaps the symbol found on the title page, and on page 00021 of the Principia: the Five Fingered Hand of Eris. It has the forementioned "K" backwards, and forwards!

What do YOU think?

EDIT:

Petition in Favor of the Five Fingered Hand of Eris:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ffhoeris/petition.html

P.S.
...It would be interesting to know how our astrological charts come out with plotting Eris, by the way.

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[info]tosk
2006-09-16 05:44 pm UTC (link)
I think we should start a petition to make the official symbol the Five Fingered Hand. It would fit perfectly with the existing planetary symbols.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]elfwreck
2006-09-16 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Absolutely. Someone who's got the right software should create a version like the other planetary symbols at Wikipedia, add a listing for it, and add it to the appropriate pages.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-16 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 01:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldriwolf, 2006-09-17 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]johnnybrainwash, 2006-09-17 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]elfwreck, 2006-09-17 07:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thalass, 2006-09-18 05:20 am UTC

[info]skexy
2006-09-16 05:46 pm UTC (link)
Personally, I'd have to select the sacred chao; I suppose the hand of Eris would more seemlessly match the rest of the symbols.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-16 07:25 pm UTC (link)
I agree. "Two crescents attatched to a bar." Almost sounds like a joke. You want something that is easy to draw and that is symbolic. Ever seen the symbol for the supposed planet (now asteriod belt) Phaeton? It looks like the hook-hand of the guy in that urban myth. The five fingered hand of Eris is perfect.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]elfwreck
2006-09-16 05:55 pm UTC (link)
I vote for the 5-fingered hand. It has the advantage of being easily represented in ASCII by an asterisk.

The backwards K is probably a bit too close to the symbol for Chiron: Chiron. (plz forgive hotlinking; I don't think cafeastrology is going to collapse by a few extra offsite hits.)

I did some calculations based on the java applet at neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/2003ub313.html; I think Eris is currently at about 20° Aries, and entered Aries about 30 years ago. I'm going to try to sort out a rough idea how long she's in each sign--since her orbit isn't circular, it'll be different for each sign.

And someone who's good at astrological calculations and has access to the (meager) data available should calculate the epicycles of Eris, and post them in some prominent location.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-16 07:34 pm UTC (link)
I agree. The K is both backwards and forwards in the FFOE. So you get the best of both whirls. So, a backwards K is confusing? And the FFOE is more in line with the other symbols?

Chiron's symbol looks a lot like a "key". Heh. And Eris's symbol will be the hand. The hand holding Chiron's key, Venus' mirror, Neptune's trident, etc.

"Eris in Aries." That sounds funny or difficult to say. But what, prey tell would be the significance of Eris in a House or Sign? We better jump on these questions before the astrologers do!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Astrology 101 - [info]voronx, 2006-09-19 02:39 pm UTC

[info]drjon
2006-09-17 12:42 am UTC (link)
Excellent idea. I heartily approve of the Five-Fingered Hand.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 01:12 am UTC (link)
A slap in the face to dwarf planets everywhere!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]forwrathandruin
2006-09-17 12:45 am UTC (link)
Five fingered hand if we must. Sacred Chao for the win. It'd be awesome to see all these simple stick-figure-arts to represent the other planets, and then a full on multi-colored Chao for Eris.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 01:10 am UTC (link)
Well, the Sacred Chao is the symbol of Discordianism, while the FFHOE relates directly to the persona of Eris erself. Much like Venus has the Mirror, Mars the shield with the arrow, etc. It also grooves with these parts of symbols.

For example, the "+" in an astrological symbol relates to the material world. The circle "O" relates to the spiritual world. The crescent "C" relates to things... receptivity. I think there are even parts like triangles, used in the alchemical symbol for sulfur and the like. But these parts - the crescents - are present in the FFHOE. Plus that line through the middle... It is like an oreo sandwich. Two feminine lines plus one masculine line in the middle. It says, "Eris is more of a womanly goddess than that slut Venus."

Also, the sacred Chao represents both Eristic and Aneristic properties (like the Pentagon). It is a bing-bang of sorts, and not at all appropriate for an astrological symbol. I did consider the Golden Apple itself. But the FFHOE just seems to, I dunno, fractally flow more with me. The Sacred Chao represents a balance... and in a way it is a balance that is still present in the FFHOE.

And yes, I thought all this out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 02:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 07:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]badoingdoing, 2006-09-17 07:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 08:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 08:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 08:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 08:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 09:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 09:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 10:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 11:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]forwrathandruin, 2006-09-17 11:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2006-09-17 12:42 pm UTC

[info]reverendgraham
2006-09-17 01:32 am UTC (link)
hey i was just thinking about this last night. eris seemed conspicuously unsymbolized on the wikipedia article on the solar system. i'm glad people have the situation under control. i too vote for the five-fingered hand.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 02:03 am UTC (link)
ok, ok, petition will be up soon, to tell the IAU or IAS or IA!IA!CTHULUFTAGN! (whoever they are) that we wholeheartedly or wholepinealglandally support the decision to name the LARGEST dwarf planet Eris and that we give them this slap in the face with our five fingered hand symbol with the greatest of Love. Or Chaos. Thank you for your support.

)|(

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]reverendgraham, 2006-09-17 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 12:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]reverendgraham, 2006-09-17 01:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 01:54 pm UTC

[info]rikchik
2006-09-17 02:48 am UTC (link)
Of course, Ceres and Pluto both have symbols because they used to be planets. You'll have no luck getting a symbol into Wikipedia until there's one generally accepted, at least among astronomers. That's no reason we can't come up with our own and put it out there.

I agree with elfwreck that the K symbol is a bit too much like Chiron. As it happens, this kind of thing is a hobby of mine: at my page http://suberic.net/~dmm/graphics/astro/tno.html you'll find symbols for Varuna, Ixion, Quaoar, Sedna, and Orcus. I've been thinking about a symbol for Eris for a couple of days.

This is the best one I've been able to come up with based on the best known classical symbol associated with Eris. (My method is to use the initial of the deity in its native writing system, so a Greek Epsilon for Eris.) I'm still a little unsure about it though.


Here's one based on the Hand of Eris, with a crossbar added to (a) suggest the Epsilon and (b) keep it from being an exact copy of the religious symbol. I wouldn't want non-Discordian astronomers and astrologers using the exact symbol I wear around my neck, any more than I'd want to have to use a Star of David or a Yin-Yang to symbolize a planet.

As for astrological details, the astrologer Zane Stein has been trying to figure out Eris's meaning since it was discovered - he's got lots of information at http://www.zanestein.com/Trans-pluto.htm#UB313 including an ephemeris at http://www.zanestein.com/10th_Ephemeris.htm . (He has his own symbol for Eris, but he came up with it before the name was decided and I don't care much for it.) Eris is at 21 or 20 Aries and is retrograde - she's retrograde about half of our year, every year.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 12:59 pm UTC (link)
Now, with the crossbar, it looks like a fleur-de-lis. Maybe if it were 'dwarf planet' New Orleans or something. And If you add the crossbar, it then becomes the 7 fingered hand of eris, and not the five fingered hand of eris. I think the E that looks like the apple is cute, though. It might be good to suggest millions of symbols for Eris, just to confuse the IAU, but we don't want them renaming Her planet, out of contempt for confusion we have created, something like 'Spam' or 'Bush'.

If the argument is that the FFHOE is a religious symbol, couldn't it be argued that the other symbols, like Mercury, Venus, etc. also essentially 'religious' symbols. They refer specifically to a god or goddess. I think that the FFHOE is a glyph that represents Eris, while the actual Sacred Chao or the Golden Apple of Discord is more of a 'religious symbol'. I mean, it's not like Eris was crucified on a FFHOE or anything. Though, the Sacred Chao, and the Golden Apple refer to specific Discordian things. And if people saw the FFHOE around your neck, and knew that it was the planet's symbol then the Erisian Movement might actually start to pick up. This age of Bureaucracy has lasted far too long.

If we can get the astrologers to adopt the FFHOE as the official symbol of Eris along with help distinguish the meaning of the planet, then we have done great things for both science and pseudoscience in the name of Eris.

Strangely, when I was a child, playing on the play ground I used to pretend that I was on the planet Aris (without knowing anything about the Goddess or Discordianism). And now, probably 20 years later, there's a planet Eris... so of course I want to help make sure it has a proper symbol.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-17 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voronx, 2006-09-18 06:47 pm UTC

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 02:18 pm UTC (link)
I've also referenced one of your pages on the five seasons of Chaos in the [info]miriadic community's (which I maintain) Miriadic Wiki on the page concerning Five Stages of Chaos (it's in the section called External Links). Feel free to browse around there, since there are all kinds of various Discordian articles we need. There's way too much for one person to do. It's not just a discordian wiki, though... It's something entirely new...

I also dig your symbols for a lot of the other planets.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Eris & astrologers & Discordians
[info]zanebstein
2006-09-17 04:36 pm UTC (link)
Thank you, Rikchik, for mentioning my Eris site.

It was asked how an astrological symbol became accepted for use by astrologers. First, let me say that there is no group you could submit one to that would bring acceptance among all the astrologers. Over the centuries (since Uranus was discovered in 1781), this has been the procedure for getting a new symbol accepted:
1. Someone proposes a symbol and starts using it. Someone else proposes another symbol and starts using that one. Sometimes, there may be even more than two in use.
2. Astrologers see the symbols, pick the one they like, and begin using it.
Of course, this results in some astrologers using one symbol, some using another.
3. Over time, one symbol often becomes more popular than the others, and gets wide acceptance. When this occurs, it tends to become the 'accepted' symbol in books, computer programs, etc. However, even in this case, one or more of the other symbols often are still in use by a section of the astrological community.
3a. Thus, I know of 1 main symbol for Uranus, and one other symbol still in use by some astrologers; the same for Neptune; and for Pluto, I know of 2 main symbols in use, and a 3rd that still has some proponents. In the case of Pluto, most astrological software gives you the option of choosing which of the two symbols you prefer to use in your charts.

Now, as for my Eris symbol.....anyone who knows me knows that I am not 'stuck' on that symbol. I will consider others, and if another becomes widely accepted, I will be happy to start using that one. I came up with my symbol because I got tired of writing "2003 UB313" in charts. I do know several people who do like my symbol, and have started using it, however.

To be fair, though, I have just added the Hand of Eris symbol to my site, next to my symbol. This will give people a choice, and they can use whichever they prefer. http://www.zanestein.com/Trans-pluto.htm#UB313 and for the ephemeris, http://www.zanestein.com/10th_Ephemeris.htm

Now, I have a request. I'd like to include a short article on my site, say, a few paragraphs, on Eris from the Discordian's view. Would anyone like to volunteer to write one for me? Or suggest another article already written which I could copy for my site?



(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-17 05:04 pm UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]zanebstein, 2006-09-17 05:21 pm UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-17 06:46 pm UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-17 08:46 pm UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - (Anonymous), 2006-09-18 12:17 am UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-18 03:30 am UTC
Re: Eris & astrologers & Discordians - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-17 09:05 pm UTC

[info]voronx
2006-09-18 04:35 pm UTC (link)
I like the Five-fingered hand symbol -- though I've seen it horizontally oriented as well as vertically. Which one is more universally correct? Is about.com wrong to have it horizontally? The horizontal one would end up looking a lot like the astrological sign for 'sextile'.

The vertical symbol looks a bit like Uranus's symbol -- the side-bars of the "H" are often curved outwards -- though that's not necessarily bad because Astrologically Uranus has more than a little bit of association with chaos and upheaval.

I like the cross-bar-glyph alot-- though I'm wondering if it's perhaps too close to the glyph for pisces. Though it is remeniscent of the eight-armed chaos symbol...
Before I ran into the FFH online, I was thinking of either an apple glyph, or an epsilon with a cross underneath (to symbolize a deity, particularly a goddess -- as seen on the glyphs of Venus, Ceres, Pallas, Juno, Mercury, Neptune, and Pluto), or a "schwah-sign" with a cross underneath. The schwah, of course, being really an upside-down "e" -- I though that it seemed particularly Erisian. Sorry I don't have a pic of it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Alternate symbol - [info]voronx, 2006-09-18 04:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-19 01:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voronx, 2006-09-19 02:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-19 02:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-19 02:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikchik, 2006-09-19 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-19 02:48 pm UTC
All Hail Gematria! - [info]voronx, 2006-09-19 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-19 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voronx, 2006-09-19 04:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]travlr1, 2006-09-19 05:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]voronx, 2006-09-19 08:02 pm UTC

[info]elfwreck
2006-09-17 07:05 am UTC (link)
I wouldn't want non-Discordian astronomers and astrologers using the exact symbol I wear around my neck

Wouldn't wearing the symbol rather turn them into Discordians? Possibly unknowing Discordians, but cluelessness does not exclude a person from a connection with Eris.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]travlr1
2006-09-17 01:56 pm UTC (link)
personally, I think it would be fun to wear an astronomer or an astrologer themselves around my neck.

I think we're confused, here...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]madogvelkor
2006-09-18 12:35 am UTC (link)
Looks like someone's already proposed a symbol for Eris on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_symbol#Symbols_of_satellites_and_dwarf_planets

(Reply to this)

Speaking of symbols
[info]voronx
2006-09-18 07:32 pm UTC (link)
has anybody seen this?
It looks like Eris had both her hands on this one!

(Reply to this)

Erisian Passports?
[info]razmear
2006-09-20 09:41 am UTC (link)
Now that we have our own planet, shouldn't we have Erisian Passports and citizenship documents?

It has also been motioned and seconded at 23ae.com that 9/14 become a Holy Day on the Erisian calendar. The name and date of the Holy Day are yet to be determined.

Out of the woodwork,
eb
Razmear, Deacon of the Erisian Way

(Reply to this)


[info]rikchik
2007-01-19 08:53 pm UTC (link)
In case anyone is still watching this thread, I've used the Eris symbol in a set of "my solar system has twelve planets" lj icons - see them both at this post.

(Reply to this)

A Glyph For Eris
(Anonymous)
2007-02-20 08:17 pm UTC (link)
My proposed glyph for Eris looks almost like Venus except the the circle has a line going through it.

Billy Ross III

billyrossv200@yahoo.com

P.S.

Post your comments at my e mail address.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-01 05:51 pm UTC (link)
what do you call the golden apple?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]23press
2008-11-24 07:04 pm UTC (link)
"late for dinner"

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-10-09 05:42 am UTC (link)
Five fingered hand for sure, it has nice geometry to it.

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