Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote in [info]deleterius,
@ 2003-07-08 16:13:00
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Current mood: hyper

Uber-LOTR-Sue!
I have never, ever seen a Sue to match this one.

Story or Series Title: Daughter of the Rings
Fandom: LOTR/The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever Crossover.
Culprit's Name: Ninja Fuzzy

Full Name: Nalani/Yusuko.
Full Species: Dea dubiosa, without question. The author gives this explanation:

"The daughter of all men. Of all elves, dwarves, goblins. of all living creatures. Created, along with the rings in the heart of Mt. Doom. Created with but one purpose. to see that the ring shall never be destroyed. Ringwraiths protect it, but they are easily fallible. The one true guardian of the ring. an invincible force damned to service of the ring."

So, Ringwraith, I guess.

Hair Colour: "long, silver hair."
Eye Colour: "Her bright, blue eyes carried the sadness of a thousand lifetimes, with the hint of a horrible past." *boggle*
Unusual Markings/Colourations: Blue skin. And wings. For the love of Eru...



Special Possessions: Well:

1. Gem of some kind that lets her perform powerful magic.
2. A sword that she forms "out of her own body."
3. A pendant that Glorfindel fetches back for her after she lost it somewhere: "It was made of a silver chain, and at its end was a deep blue jewel, that seemed to hold the ocean in it."
4. A scabbard for the sword that Galadriel gives her. (If she just calls it out of thin air, what use is a scabbard?)
5. A Ranyhyn horse named Kyouryoku; you've got to see this description:

"The horse came from a village of strange elves (called Ramen*) that she dwelt with for the years before she came to Mirkwood. She then returned for a short while, then came to Rivendell. These elves were not seen by the whole of Middle earth, and only few had been there, and seen their hidden village. The Ramen raised the horses, which was a breed by the name of "Ranyhyn"*. These powerful horses were stronger and faster than the normal breed. Their intelligence rivaled that of most men. They chose their masters, and served them well. It was said that they often knew days in advance when their masters would call them, and would be there when they were called. Her horse was called Kyouryoku which was derived from the word "strength" in the language of the Ramen. Despite her preference to walk, she loved her horse."

She insists that the Ramen language is Japanese, despite calling an obviously made-up (and badly-so!) language she uses elsewhere in the story "the tongue of the Ramen."

Annoying Origin: Basically, it's in her species line above. She was created by Sauron to protect the Ring, and with the blood of "every species," including Ramen elves. I hate to think of the orgy Sauron had to arrange.
Annoying Connections to Canon Characters: Oh, dear Nienna. Let's see if I can get them all:

1. Swears to protect Frodo with her life.
2. Makes Frodo get all angsty about her, numerous times.
3. Makes Sam fascinated with her.
4. Teaches Merry and Pippin to fight with swords.
5. An old friend of Aragorn's.
6. An old friend of Gandalf's; he regards her as a daughter.
7. Learned magic from Gandalf.
8. Has been friends with Glorfindel for 300 years.
9. Glorfindel comes along with the Fellowship to be with her.
10. Glorfindel is in love with her, though Nalani doesn't love him back.
11. Intimidates Haldir.
12. Attacks Haldir and gets away with it.
13. Fucking tries to drown Galadriel and gets away with it.
14. Sauron calls her his daughter and "loves her." Um. Righty-o.
15. She can command the Ringwraiths, if she wants.
16. Despite the fucking stupid attack on Haldir and Galadriel, Galadriel tells her she will always be regarded as a hero in Lorien.
17. Sauron sends his best general to get her back, instead of the Ring.
18. Old friends with Legolas.
19. Has had "dealings with Thranduil."
20. Glorfindel abandonds the Quest in Lorien because he can't stand to see Nalani get hurt.

See what I mean about Uber-Sue?

Annoying Special Abilities: Here we go again:

1. She can fly.
2. She can shapeshift into anything, including an elf and a horse.
3. She can make just about everybody fall all over themselves apologizing.
4. She survives the flood at the Ford of Bruinen.
5. She's strong enough to crush an Orc.
6. She can walk so silently Elves can't hear her.
7. She has keener senses than an Elf.
8. She's wiser than Gandalf, and makes him admit it. *strangle* *strangle* *strangle*
9. She solves the riddle for entrance into Moria.
10. She's the one who suggests that the Ring has to be destroyed in Mount Doom.
11. She can leap from tree branch to tree branch.
12. She performs healing and warding spells.
13. She has prophetic dreams.
14. She swears a blood oath for Gandalf.
15. She falls into the abyss after Gandalf and the Balrog, but somehow survives.
16. She has "Ramen magic," whatever that means.
17. Her skin is so tough swords rebound from it.
18. She takes two arrows in the back, but lives.
19. She can keep Galadriel from reading her mind.
20. She can turn invisible.
21. She can overcome Sauron's will.

I mean. What. The. Fuck.

Other Annoying Traits: Author admits to mixing book and movie-verses, but also makes up scenes entirely (such as the scene with Galadriel that I'll quote below). She also makes odd mistakes, such as quoting the "Noro lim, noro lim, Asfaloth!" part, but not realizing the horse's name is Asfaloth; she calls her Pirotessa instead. Other times she has entire scenes that are just retellings of scenes from the book; she quotes all of Gandalf's letter to Frodo from the Prancing Pony and all of Strider's song of Lúthien for no apparent reason. (She does misquote the poem. Yes, I am such a geek that I know the poem by heart. Shut up).

Semi-Positives: Um. Readable, although the author has the extremely odd habit of not capitalizing the first word of many sentences.

Please include a small sample of the worst part of the story:

The Galadriel scene, without question. My mouth was literally hanging open.


Frodo was woken up by Haldir, who led him through the city to a vast open room. There was a dais in the center, upon which was a great mirror. Levitating above it was a silver flagon. Its design was elegant and flowing just like the beautiful elf that just entered the room.

Why does she change the entire freaking Mirror scene? What's the point?

Galadriel stood by the dais and bowed her head toward Frodo. The hobbit stepped forward, only to be blocked by Nalani, who brandished her sword and guarded the hobbit.

Oh, did I mention she makes Galadriel evil?

She had followed them undetected even by the sensitive ears of the elves.

Sure. Never mind "keenest hearing in Middle-Earth" and so on.

"I do not need my powers to feel what the ring has done to you." She hissed.

Galadriel was tempted by the Ring, but she did not fall. I have no idea why the author is making her act this way.

Galadriel stepped back, alarmed.

Galadriel: You're crazy. Do you know this?

Haldir stood ready with his bow strung and aimed at Nalani’s back. Straight at her heart.

Why do authors always have archers do this? It's hard to get someone straight in the heart; the ribs get in the way.

"I did not see you..." Galadriel glanced at Nalani’s right hand, which held her sword, and noticed the blood seeping through the bandages. "your power is gone. I see now. But your heart... it lingers in darkness. Who would suit the ring better. You or I?"

Neither of them. God damn it, where is the real Galadriel?

"I can overcome my darkness as easily as you can." Nalani relaxed and lowered her sword "Call your dog off and do your work. If you harm him, this entire city will taste death by my blade."

She talks like this to everyone in the story. Yet when Gimli refuses to be blindfolded in Lorien, the narrative scolds him for "selfish pride."

Galadriel nodded to Haldir. He stood there for a minute considering shooting Nalani anyway for the insult she caused him.

*Limyaael bounces up and down*

Do it do it do it!

He lowered his bow. Nalani then sheathed her sword, and let Frodo pass.

Galadriel uncovered the flagon and poured a silver shimmering liquid into the mirror.

"come, hobbit.


She would call him by name, not "hobbit."

Look into what may come to pass, or, quite possibly what has passed."

Frodo had been in a daze the whole time he had been there. he stepped up to the mirror and looked over.


Over what? The gaping plot hole?

Instantly, the metallic liquid reached out to him. He pulled back but not soon enough to escape its grasp. He was sucked into a portal that none knew where.

None knew where what? The author also has a problem with sentence fragments.

Nalani ripped her sword out of its sheath and launched it at Haldir, who had already loosed an arrow at her. She could only block the arrow with her arm. Haldir was not so lucky. The sword pinned him to the wall by his shoulder.

*Limyaael has her head in her hands*

Swords are so not throwing weapons.

Nalani ripped the arrow out of her arm with a snarl and snapped it in two. She grabbed Galadriel by the collar of her long thick gown and dragged her along to retrieve her sword.

I have never, ever read a Sue who did anything this stupid.

Haldir lurched forward when she took the sword, and blood poured from the wound. She kicked him in the stomach, winding him,

They wouldn't let her live after that, never mind proclaiming her a hero.

and then knocked him unconscious.

Galadriel struggled to get free as Nalani dragged her back to the dais. She snapped the frightened elf around


Galadriel has seen more frightening things than you, bitch-chicky. I guarantee ya.

and glared at her, showing her that she did not need the sword to tear her throat out.

What, she could do it with her glare?

"I want my hobbit back." Nalani said, swept away by her anger. She shoved Galadriel’s head in the mirror.

My head has exploded. I declare a ficless universe, where this story was never written. Come join me in the nice ficless universe!

"it is his prophecy. Nothing can be done! He must see it himself!" her head went under the silver water. When it surfaced she sputtered and spoke again, "no harm will come to him as long as he is true."

The words "Galadriel" and "sputtered" do not belong in the same book with each other, never mind the same sentence.

Nalani released Galadriel and stepped back. She kept her sword leveled at her, to keep the elves that had lined the room from attacking

They would have attacked long before this. Can you say: Sprouting arrows like a porcupine?

"if he does not return, I will kill them all before your eyes. Then you may begin to know my pain."

God-damn, is this stupid.

"had I known who you were, I would have never allowed you in my fair city."

"had you not dared harm Frodo, this would have never happened. The blame lies only on you."


No, it lies on the author.

Galadriel nodded. She realized that Nalani spoke the truth. She also realized the evil influence the ring had over her. Tears ran down her face as she waved the archers and spectators away.

Y'know, it's not that often they manage to send the Lady of the Golden Wood out of character. I think this fic deserves some kind of special prize for that alone.



This fic is 37 chapters long (well, 34 chapters, an introduction, a profile of Nalani, and a "chapter" where the author screams about her writer's block). It's about 27,000 words, but I urge you to read it if you can. You will never appreciate the true horror otherwise.

I was crying with laughter by the end of it. Believe me, it's worth it.




(Post a new comment)


[info]sailormac
2003-07-08 01:47 pm UTC (link)
Good LORD . . .

I don't know what's worse, the attempted murder of Galadriel or the Ramen elves.

What the hell are Ramen elves??? Do they spend their entire eternal life creating enormous bowls of noodle soup with fish cakes?

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[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 01:56 pm UTC (link)
She's taken the name from The Chronicles of Thomas Convenant the Unbeliever by Stephen Donaldson. The Ramen are a people who raise intelligent horses (basically a homage to the Rohirrim), but not elves. The fic actually stops before the Fellowship breaks up, so Eru alone knows what she meant to do with them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]chisotahn
2003-07-08 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. And Ramen magic? Brings up images of vicious noodle attacks, or something. O_o;

nice icon, by the way. yay Hikago. :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I think I've seen Nalani's sister...
(Anonymous)
2003-07-08 01:49 pm UTC (link)
Caeonnen, the Sue in The Earthborn: Guardian of Time, to be precise. Here is the explanation of Caeonnen's existence:

"...Maybe if I had daughter! If only I had." he thought sadly to himself. He slept very restlessly one night, he had a dream about a lettuce-like plant that was edged in silver and cried out with a human voice.

A different voice spoke to him and said, "I, the valor, have heard your solitude and I shall grant you a child of every race bound into one: Halflings, Dwarves, Men, Elves, Wizards, Ents, and even Orcs, and Ringwraiths. She will accompany you for a while, until you make your decision to come to the Havens. You are to take care of her with love and kindness. Should you not, she will turn back into a plant. She will be very essential to the future. Fare well, Laruno."


So Caeonnen is Halfling-Dwarven-Human-Elven-Wizard-Entish-Orcish-Ringwraith...and lettuce. Never mind that Wizards and Ringwraiths are not RACES. Or the fact that it might be a tad difficult for humanoid races to crossbreed with lettuce or sentient trees.

Also, Caeonnen gets adopted by the giant carnivorous spiders in Mirkwood after she gets separated from her elven family, because spiders are such gentle and maternal creatures.

If you like, you can compare her and Nalani. Caeonnen's story can be found at http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1369065

The PPC version can be found at http://www.elvea-aure.0catch.com/ppc/earthborn.html

Gehayi

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Re: I think I've seen Nalani's sister...
[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 01:58 pm UTC (link)
Thank you! I like the lettuce and maternal-spiders bit, though I don't know if much can compare to the attempted murder of Galadriel.

I would so dearly love to see a PPC of Nalani...

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Re: I think I've seen Nalani's sister...
[info]elvea_aure
2003-07-09 02:59 am UTC (link)
She half falls under my department- DMFF. The PPC board asked me to kill her. I might just finish the MST before I go off to Spain. I'm looking forward to it, too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I think I've seen Nalani's sister...
[info]limyaael
2003-07-09 06:40 am UTC (link)
*perks up* Did they?

Please let me know if/when you do it!

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Re: I think I've seen Nalani's sister...
[info]elvea_aure
2003-07-09 07:26 am UTC (link)
Well, one thing's for sure- I will kill her. I can't let you (or my fellow agents) down on that one. Expect it to be up somewhere around Wednesday next week. In the meantime you could entertain yourself with reading my previous kills at
www.elvea-aure.0catch.com/ppc/main.html

The rest of the website might just contain things you like as well. Enjoy!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mariagoner
2003-07-08 02:19 pm UTC (link)
Let's go down the list and see how many of her SOOPER SEKRIT MAGIKAL ITEMZ are cribbed from better sources, shall we?
1. Gem of some kind that lets her perform powerful magic.
I'm sensing... almost any magical girl animes that have twinkly little pubescents turn all sparkly and shit after using a magical gem. See: Sailor Moon.

2. A sword that she forms "out of her own body."
I'm sensing... the Sword of Dios that the Rose Bride Anthy pulls out of her body in the anime "Revolutionary Girl Utena."

3. A pendant that Glorfindel fetches back for her after she lost it somewhere: "It was made of a silver chain, and at its end was a deep blue jewel, that seemed to hold the ocean in it."
I'm sensing... that stupid Star of the Ocean or whatever the fuckityfuck it was that Rose had in "Titanic." Hell, it even fell into the ocean at the end.

4. A scabbard for the sword that Galadriel gives her. (If she just calls it out of thin air, what use is a scabbard?)
I'm sensing... parallels to what Kenshin (from anime Ruroni Kenshin) does with his scabbard (i.e. use it as a parrying weapon). She definitely stole his moves in this travesty.

5. A Ranyhyn horse named Kyouryoku;
I'm sensing... unfulfilled "My Little Pony" dreams.

Geezus, can this chick come up with any original ideas at all?! But then, if she could, she wouldn't be writing Mary Sues...

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[info]chisotahn
2003-07-08 03:16 pm UTC (link)
I'm really picking up the anime vibes. The Utena-esque bit you mentioned, but 'Pirotessa'? Record of Lodoss Wars, anyone?

Also, this Sue is both hilarious and incredibly horrific at the same time. I fear. A LOT.

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[info]childofatlantis
2003-07-08 02:57 pm UTC (link)
... Ramen?

Ramen.

RAMEN!

Jeez, why not call them the Potnoodles and have done with it? *snort* How on _earth_ did you have the stamina to get through all 37 chapters? o_O;;

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[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 05:23 pm UTC (link)
I read it over three separate days. I think that kept me from going insane.

Unfortunately, it seems to have addicted me to long LOTR badfic. I have the urge to seek out more now.

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[info]jenlittlebottom
2003-07-08 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Ramen Elves.

There are no words.

Also, in her character profile she's got Age: N/A. *giggles*

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[info]cutedestruction
2003-07-08 04:08 pm UTC (link)
Ahahahahahaha! Ramen elves. Hoo...I know they're from a different fandom that I know nothing about, but that just pulls up such great images....I wonder if you can buy 'em for 14 cents each?

I love it when the fics are written with decent enough spelling and grammar so you can read them, but the silliness of the plot just makes you laugh.

I don't know if I can actually read this whole thing, though....maybe we should send it to some MSTers....that'd make it more palatable. ::grin::

(Reply to this)

Even her arguments are cliched...
[info]gj_fate
2003-07-08 04:22 pm UTC (link)
From the reviews, Ninja Fuzzy visited some of our favourite arguments.

Okay David I'm glad you brought this up cause its been a problem with people. The language is Japanese, because I wanted it to be. There seem to be a lot of people who have a problem with this. Another story had Japanese in it, and there were many complaints. Not just complaints, bitchfits. It's called Fanfiction for a reason, people. It's the FAN's view of what happened. I like Japanese and I think it is a beautiful language. I wanted it there, and it is my story. So if you want to flame, bite me. Go take your tantrums somewhere else, you're only wasting net space. I'm cool with constructive criticism, however. It will be gratefully accepted.
**Misato**


Despite that, I couldn't find the review she was addressing. Um... I think she was addressing one of her reviews.

Seriously though, you deserve an award for finding and wading through all that. I tip my hat to you, sir.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Even her arguments are cliched...
[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 05:25 pm UTC (link)
Thanks! It was actually an accident; I typed in Galadriel to the summary search, wanting to see if there was a Galadriel Stu, and up it popped.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]tviokh
2003-07-08 04:37 pm UTC (link)
I have..no words..

Except:
Nalani ripped her sword out of its sheath and launched it at Haldir

Someone should pass this on to Sauron:

#197 of the Evil Overlord List: "I will explain to my Legions of Terror that guns are ranged weapons and swords are not. Anyone who attempts to throw a sword at the hero or club him with a gun will be summarily executed."

(Reply to this)

*urge to kill rising*
[info]sir_hellsing
2003-07-08 05:00 pm UTC (link)
Oh.Dear.ERU!

She has a GLORFINDEL's SUE! Why? Go and pester Legolas and Haldir, but leave him alone! *sobs*

8. She's wiser than Gandalf, and makes him admit it. *strangle* *strangle* *strangle*

Yeah, so... she's wiser than the bloody wisest of the maiar? Student to Nienna herself? Logic anyone? *gags*

She tries to kill GALADRIEL? The greatest of the Noldor (along with that loon, Fëanor).

14. She swears a blood oath for Gandalf.

She's doomed, anyone who swears a blood oath inside Tolkien will suffer a terrible fate. I am glad for that, she deserves it.

Besides if Glorfindel was during the fight with the balrog, why didn't *he* help? After all, he has experience in that particular subject.

But what pissed me off more than anything is this:

Pirotessa

::twitch::

Not only she ruins Middle Earth, but *also* dares to mud the name of my favorite female elf of all time?! LEAVE LODOSS ALONE! May the army of Marmo destroy the Sue for this one, I am sure Lord Ashram will not be pleased when he hears that the name of his lover... errr loyal general is used in a horse. Pirotessa herself wont be amuse either. Never enraged the Black Knight with a sword called 'SoulCrusher' or the Lady of the drows.

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Re: *urge to kill rising*
[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 05:28 pm UTC (link)
The two bits of her dialogue with Gandalf that irritated me the most were these:

From Chapter 17

"they are dear to me as well, and it would hurt me to lose them. But to love is to be weak. And I have much weakness already." Gandalf seemed almost to take offense from this.

"haven’t I always taught you that love is the only thing that can save this world?"

"Gandalf, compassion and love are different things. My loving Glorfindel or Strider or any other will not save this world. But mercy to all will help."

"I suppose you have a point." He ruffled her hair.

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<a href+http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

The two bits of her dialogue with Gandalf that irritated me the most were these:

<a href="http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=507850&chapter=17">From Chapter 17</a>

"they are dear to me as well, and it would hurt me to lose them. But to love is to be weak. And I have much weakness already." Gandalf seemed almost to take offense from this.

"haven’t I always taught you that love is the only thing that can save this world?"

"Gandalf, compassion and love are different things. My loving Glorfindel or Strider or any other will not save this world. But mercy to all will help."

"I suppose you have a point." He ruffled her hair.

<a href+http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=507850&chapter=24">From Chapter 24</a>

he began chanting elvish opening spells, but none opened the doors. Nalani laughed as he slumped down to smoke his pipe. He looked up angrily.

"do you have any better ideas?"

"do not patronize me, Old Man. It is a simple riddle, and your wisdom should not have missed it. "

"Nalani, cruelty is not becoming of you. If you know the answer then speak it."

Nalani laughed, and simply said "mellon". The doors then lurched and opened inward. Gandalf stared at her.

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Re: *urge to kill rising*
[info]sir_hellsing
2003-07-08 09:17 pm UTC (link)
She stole Merry's moment of glory, first Frodo now the Sue... GRRR

Actually, compassion and mercy are not the exact same thing and both of them are expressions of love (love is a wide term), seems like I am wiser than Gandalf too! YAY!

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[info]mhari
2003-07-08 06:07 pm UTC (link)
O________________O

AUGH! Augh augh augh augh!

Kid. Kid. Sue, honey. The Ramen are NOT BLUE, for openers. They are all brown and suntanned. And they don't use swords. And they are not ELVES. If there are elf-analogues in Covenant they're either the Woodhelvennin or the Elohim.

*tugs on Mhoram et al.* Lock this poor, troubled thing away somewhere and heal her wounded mind. EVIL WORKS THROUGH THESE DELUSIONS. DOOM IS IMMINENT.

Kee-rist. Can't we stick to mutilating one epic at a time?

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[info]wolfie_thu
2003-07-08 07:11 pm UTC (link)
The daughter of all men. Of all elves, dwarves, goblins. of all living creatures.

Okay.
That most have been the Biggest. Orgy. Ever. Why wasn't I invited?

You know what I really don't get about this story? (Besides the fact that someone would actually write something this ridiculous.) If Sauron was able to create such an immensely powerful being, why would he need the Ring at all? *brain explodes*

P.S. And what makes her think her "Ranyhyn" horses are so much more special than the Mearas?




(Reply to this)

uhm....
(Anonymous)
2003-07-08 07:45 pm UTC (link)
Yes this is the fucktard that wrote this piece of shit.

1) Wrote this years ago. It sucks. I'm an artist, not a writer.

2) It's fanFICTION. I can alter stuff as I wish, it's my imagination, so yea. If ALL characters were EXACTLY the same in EVERY fic, what the hell fun would that be? I smell elitist bastard all over you.

3) I never gave you permission to post any part of my fic/characters anywhere. So kindly take this post down immediately.

Thank you.

-Jenna (nunja fuzzy, Kumo, whatever the hell)

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Re: uhm....
[info]limyaael
2003-07-08 07:49 pm UTC (link)
I never called you a fucktard or anything like it.

1) If you think it sucks, you can always revise it.

2) Fanfiction usually has some connection to the characters and world and story; here, it's so altered that it's hard to see the connections. And Nalani is a Sue, which makes her, actually, a lot like other Sues, not really all that original.

As for "elitist bastard"...

*sniffs delicately*

Elitist bitch, I think. ;).

3) It's posted publicly on the Internet. I didn't claim that any part of the fic was mine. You are subject to public criticism if you put something up, and you have every right to respond here, just as I have every right to respond to you. This is only my opinion of the fic, which is why I put the link up, so that other people can follow it and make up their own minds.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

*laughs*
[info]_redpanda_
2003-07-08 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. At MOST you can ask her -- nicely -- to remove the excerpt of your story. However, she is under no obligation to take down her opinion of your work...and, frankly, with your attitude, I doubt she should take ANYTHING down. Quoting excerpts for reviewal/reference purposes, as long as all said excerpts are unaltered and properly credited, is perfectly legal.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: uhm....
[info]tviokh
2003-07-08 08:15 pm UTC (link)
3) It's posted publicly on the Internet. I didn't claim that any part of the fic was mine. You are subject to public criticism if you put something up, and you have every right to respond here, just as I have every right to respond to you. This is only my opinion of the fic, which is why I put the link up, so that other people can follow it and make up their own minds.


And just FYI, if anyone is harassing you (the author) via email, ff.net or IM claiming they came from here please know that nobody here "sent" anyone to flame you and feel free to tell them that their ass would be roasted here if they ever had the balls to brag about "flaming the author."

Take a look at the community rules.

Unfortunately, I can't control what others do, but the majority of people here do not condone going to an author's page and just plain flaming.
Constructive criticism, yes.
Flaming, no.

The community itself is more for venting about the fic, not actually reviewing.

However, if you were to start a flame war, we're more than entitled to napalm right back.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: uhm....
[info]cantstopthedawn
2003-07-08 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Quoting for purposes of review and/or parody is protected speech. Get used to it.

If all characters were exactly the same in every fic, they'd be a lot more like your fics than ours.

If you're not a writer, why do you put your writing online?

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Re: uhm....
[info]idemandjustice
2003-07-08 09:02 pm UTC (link)
Seeing as you were credited for your work, and she only quoted you for review purposes, she is not legally obligated to take it down. That's to the best of my knowledge. I do have some lawyer friends who know a great deal about copyright law. I can double check with them to be sure.

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Re: uhm....
[info]sir_hellsing
2003-07-08 09:45 pm UTC (link)
Yes this is the fucktard that wrote this piece of shit.

No one insult you, your writing skills yes, as a person no.

1) Wrote this years ago. It sucks. I'm an artist, not a writer.

I'm a writer, but I sucks in drawing, I wont post a draw of mine NEVER. If you thought it was bad, why did you post it in the first place?

2) It's fanFICTION. I can alter stuff as I wish, it's my imagination, so yea. If ALL characters were EXACTLY the same in EVERY fic, what the hell fun would that be? I smell elitist bastard all over you.

The original characters are supposed to act the same (or at least not too different) in the fics, that's because they have a canon personality! *gasp* Situations can differ, of course. Besides yes is FANfiction, you must write respecting your fandom's rules, Tolkien's rules. If Morgoth couldn't create living things, only corrupted them, for extension Sauron (who was merely Melkor's biggest grouppie) cannot create the UBERbeing either. What Eru Ilúvatar has to say in all this, eh? *shakes head*
Tolkien conservative for me, dear. Sometimes fandom nitpicking bitch too.


3) I never gave you permission to post any part of my fic/characters anywhere. So kindly take this post down immediately.

She's not stealing, just reviewing and using quotes, so she has no legal obligation to do it. If you would be nicer, she could listen to you. But alas I detect some crushed ego problems?!

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Re: uhm....
[info]sir_hellsing
2003-07-08 09:48 pm UTC (link)
In the original characters, I mean the original Tolkien's characters, not the make up characters...

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Re: uhm....
(Anonymous)
2003-07-08 09:56 pm UTC (link)
1) If you know it sucks, why is it up there?

2) If the characters are the same in every story, it means you're being true to the original. That you mangle the original characters gives the impresion that you really don't care about anything other than fulfilling your own fantasies. But, hey, what else is new? Fangirls are a dime a gross these days.

3) Go read your copyright law, dear. You don't have a legal leg to stand on with your demands.

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Re: uhm....
[info]tifag
2003-07-08 10:21 pm UTC (link)
Well, if you take the legal issues into order, *you* were not given permission to use the LotR characters. So if you want to stand by the number three options, you have just forced yourself to take down your own story.

This is called a review. The story was not stolen, nor did they claim the character as their own. It also appears in the first few chapters of your story that you never forbid people from using your character or writing about it. You basically brought it upon yourself.

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Re: uhm....
[info]nesmith
2003-07-08 10:30 pm UTC (link)
3) I never gave you permission to post any part of my fic/characters anywhere. So kindly take this post down immediately.

The answers to this are a) you don't have to, since once your work is public domain, it can be posted (parts, not the whole) for criticism anywhere anyone damn well pleases, as long as they are not trying to take credit for it (and why anyone would want to claim your MS "story" is beyond me), and b) no, she won't. If you can't handle criticism then don't put your work up where the public can view it. Period.

Goodbye, good luck, and don't let the door hit your ass too hard on the way out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: uhm....
[info]cutedestruction
2003-07-08 10:42 pm UTC (link)
*ahem*

This sort of community can be harsh, I'll certainly admit to that. However, as many people are saying, I wouldn't take it personally. We are insulting your work, not you. We may be wondering what the heck you were thinking when you wrote this particular piece, but that's as far as that goes. And we don't know if this was the first thing you've written, how old you are, etc. We just see this fic, and it's terribly outrageous, and we post here to vent about it. Most of us, frankly, are very bored. I like to think that this could encourage GOOD writers to take a good hard look at their work and change what sucks about it. It will, obviously, encourage bad writers to give up and go do something else.

What's the difference between a good and a bad writer? Simple. It's the following of certain rules of punctuation, grammar, plot structure, and presentation of drama/comedy. The basic things that make a good story. A good writer will take criticism to heart and use it to improve themselves. A bad one will throw a fit and walk away, or continue to write crap, despite people trying to tell them what's going on.

Sorry, got a bit off topic. Anyway, back to you: We're not saying that you're a bad writer. Hell, you could be writing some sort of novel that'll blow everyone away. We are saying that this is a bad story, and that it employs every cheesy ability and relationship known to this fandom.

Frankly, I'm rather surprised to hear from you. You have actually been given, in my opinion, one of the better reviews in this group. Why? You seem to have a decent grasp of spelling, grammar, punctuation, and paragraph breaks. We can READ what you write without having to squint. This isn't true of most of the other stuff. The only reason this is on here is the truly outrageous nature of your character. Even that might be enough to slip by, if your character had not completely changed the life of EVERYONE in Middle Earth, and if you had not caused most of these people to act not-as-they-should.

You think we're elitist? Good. We are. We judge people's work. We don't judge people unless they show up on our site to flame us. I don't think that judging something is a bad thing. Pre-judging is bad. Judging is something you need to do to get by in your daily life, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either miserable or a hypocrite (probably both)

I completely agree with you that this is your story. Your story and our views on your story are two seperate things. You don't agree with our views...well, we don't expect you to. When you write a story, even if it is your first piece and really terrible (which reminds me...I should post my crossover/Suefic to the MarySue group sometime), you still feel very attached to it. Go ahead, be that way....I generally expect that.

Don't expect us to feel sorry for expressing our own views about it, though, and hurting your feelings. If you're gonna post stuff on the net, you should have a thicker skin.

I must say that I appreciate the fact that you, at least, know how to write. I also have to say that I enjoyed your story, at least the part that I've gotten through so far. Surprisingly, it doesn't take a MST to read (as I suggested before). Of course, I'm not really a big LOTR fan, so your out-of-character characters didn't bother me too much. I hope you can take that for what it's worth.

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Re: uhm....
[info]sarcastic_celt
2003-07-08 11:34 pm UTC (link)
I have said this before and I will say it again. There is NO signature on this posting. Do to the nature of the Internet and the LJ system it is very difficult to prove oneself as the author and even further more to make demands concerning your piece. Even if you had an account it would be hard to believe you when you get down to bare technicalities but the fact that you did no not have an account and leave notes signed COMPLETELY void of any identifying information does not help your cause. *I* could have just as easily made an unsigned note claiming to be the authors BFF (which I am not) and raise a big stink.

As far as I can see there is nothing here legally that can be done. It would be up to limyaael to take this down souly based on the goodness of her heart. And in that case I recommend politeness and a clear head in making such a request, no one wants to appease someone who is hostile and offensive. Technically, fan fiction is using other copyrighted characters with out permission and putting a copy write disclaimer on top of your work does not make it legally permissible or binding. If you had an actual copyright on your work we would be having a different discussion.

I won't pretend that this is the community to receive group hugs for your witting. We, just like many people in the published witting world, can be quite mean. Believe me, no matter what you do there will always be someone who doesn't like what you created. The best thing you can do is shrug it off and continue to do what makes you happy or consider the comments which may be a bit harsh at times but are also constructive. You can learn from this if you want to.

I do want to give you props for not coming in here and calling us names. It is a good sign for an author to distinguish a difference in personal criticism and criticism concerning writing. Whenever an author fails to make that distinction it ends very, very badly.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: uhm....
[info]littleshebear
2003-07-09 03:16 am UTC (link)
This has absolutely nothing to do with the present discussion but I just want to say, that icon rocks my world. Give Milton back the stapler you swine! *shakes fist*

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: uhm....
[info]sarcastic_celt
2003-07-09 04:05 pm UTC (link)
Aww! Thank you!
I made this a couple days back.
:) Glad the humor remains

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Re: uhm....
[info]seldear
2003-07-09 12:52 am UTC (link)
1) Wrote this years ago. It sucks. I'm an artist, not a writer.

Fair enough. We all develop in our writing skills as we keep writing, and some of us never fully achieve the kind of aptitude we'd like in writing skills. That's a part of life. It's good to see that you've moved on.

2) It's fanFICTION. I can alter stuff as I wish, it's my imagination, so yea. If ALL characters were EXACTLY the same in EVERY fic, what the hell fun would that be? I smell elitist bastard all over you.

Ah, see the thing with fanfiction is that it is written using established characters from a universe that someone else invented. Some resemblance to the original established characters would be expected as a fanfic writer - and by that, I mean slightly closer than just their name and appearance. Sure, The author can alter stuff as they wish, but without a reasonable explanation for why this or that has been altered, the story will not work as a piece of fanfic. An author is better off passing the story off as their own original fiction.

3) I never gave you permission to post any part of my fic/characters anywhere. So kindly take this post down immediately.

I don't believe that Tolkien and Donaldson (or their legal and estate heirs therewith) never gave you permission to write about any part of their universe/characters. So kindly take your fic down immediately.

I'm afraid that if you're going to be even-handed about 'the right to use/post characters', then you'll have to remove the beam from your own eye before attending to the speck in [info]limyaael's eye.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: uhm....
[info]kalijean
2003-07-09 03:00 am UTC (link)
A lesson in law, dearie.

You are using the intellectual property of someone else. In doing so, you've violated copyright laws already. Technically, the author of the original work in which you wrote fic for could demand it removed, or even sue you.

This is why Anne Rice fiction is not allowed on ff.net, the author made such a request.

So nothing you write with the intellectual property of someone else belongs to you.

Meaning we can post it wherever the hell we'd like.

Even if it were your own intellectual property, fair use laws state that we can use parts of it for review and parody, just as someone else here said.

So I'm afraid this post is staying up. Sorry, slappy - you lose this time.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: uhm....
[info]elvea_aure
2003-07-09 03:03 am UTC (link)
We have linked to it, and we have given our opinions on it. Basic human right allows us to do that. And we don't need permission to link to it. By writing fan fiction you violated copyright law in the first place (like every other author writing fan fiction) and that kind of leaves you with very little right left to say that we cannot link to it, quote from it, or talk about it.
And we would also appreciate it if you kept your language civilized- we can manage it, why can't you? it's really not that hard.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sarcastic_celt
2003-07-08 11:29 pm UTC (link)
I have said this before and I will say it again. There is NO signature on this posting. Do to the nature of the Internet and the LJ system it is very difficult to prove oneself as the author and even further more to make demands concerning your piece. Even if you had an account it would be hard to believe you when you get down to bare technicalities but the fact that you did no not have an account and leave notes signed COMPLETELY void of any identifying information does not help your cause. *I* could have just as easily made an unsigned note claiming to be the authors BFF (which I am not) and raise a big stink.

As far as I can see there is nothing here legally that can be done. It would be up to limyaael to take this down souly based on the goodness of her heart. And in that case I recommend politeness and a clear head in making such a request, no one wants to appease someone who is hostile and offensive. Technically, fan fiction is using other copyrighted characters with out permission and putting a copy write disclaimer on top of your work does not make it legally permissible or binding. If you had an actual copyright on your work we would be having a different discussion.

I won't pretend that this is the community to receive group hugs for your witting. We, just like many people in the published witting world, can be quite mean. Believe me, no matter what you do there will always be someone who doesn't like what you created. The best thing you can do is shrug it off and continue to do what makes you happy or consider the comments which may be a bit harsh at times but are also constructive. You can learn from this if you want to.

I do want to give you props for not coming in here and calling us names. It is a good sign for an author to distinguish a difference in personal criticism and criticism concerning writing. Whenever an author fails to make that distinction it ends very, very badly.

(Reply to this)


[info]acyla
2003-07-09 01:37 am UTC (link)
If you're laughing I have to wonder at how traumatised you are.

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[info]limyaael
2003-07-09 08:45 am UTC (link)
I actually had a lot of fun reading it. I went from chapter to chapter thinking, "Oh, okay, another special power...but surely one won't come along to top this one!"

And one did. Every single time I thought that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2003-07-10 06:30 am UTC (link)
If lotr fanfiction was illegal then it wouldn't be allowed on ff.net.

I'm not saying the fic didn't suck ass. Yes I was daydreaming but that whole bs about me sticking myself there? bah! I don't know about you but some people have a nice grip on reality.

The thing that irks me is that you took the liberty to dig up a 2 year old fanfic and pick it apart, without the author's permission (and no matter how copyright to tolkein this fic may be, Nalani is still copyright me, and you're using her without my permission) or care. Is it so hard to say "hey we think this sucks can we post it in our livejournal so we can prove to the world that we have no lives and our only amusement is relentlessly destroying other people's work?" I would have said yes, because frankly, I KNOW this sucks, I know it's a piece of shit, why do you think I haven't finished it? Because I hate it. I didn't think anyone read that thing anymore. Else I would have taken it down. Nay, my ff.net account has been sitting there for 2years unused.

Another thing that bothers me is that some want to take blows at my intelligence. Well... none of you know me. Criticize the fic itself, leave me out of it because none of you know me at all. I'm not stupid, ignorant, or anything like that.

I still think it's hilarious that you guys get *this* much amusement out of ripping apart someone's work.

On that note, I should say... I do art. Lots of it. I see a lot of it I don't like. A lot that I think could look better. And sometimes I want to say "jeez how did this get so many comments?" or something. Well some people put effort and emotion and whatever they have into their art. It may not look as good as the top names in the biz but I appreciate it and respect it because though they may not have that much talent yet, they put everything they DID have into it. I can't write for shit, but I tried.

So please, if you want to make fun of this fic I'm not stopping you because I know it sucks. Just don't make assumptions about me unless you know me.

-Jenna

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[info]limyaael
2003-07-10 06:48 am UTC (link)
I'm glad to see that you've calmed down a little.

If lotr fanfiction was illegal then it wouldn't be allowed on ff.net.

Most people who used that weren't saying that it's not allowed. They were using it to make the point that you can't claim the story is copyrighted to you, since you're using characters copyrighted to someone else. Yes, if someone claims they wrote your fic or created Nalani it's plagiarism, but none of us did. Quoting excerpts for review from any work in the public domain is protected speech.

I'm not saying the fic didn't suck ass.

Then why not revise it? I don't really understand when authors have poor opinions of their own work but won't try to improve.

Yes I was daydreaming but that whole bs about me sticking myself there? bah! I don't know about you but some people have a nice grip on reality.

I would kindly ask that, since you don't want us to judge you, you refrain from judging us. You haven't, though.

The thing that irks me is that you took the liberty to dig up a 2 year old fanfic and pick it apart, without the author's permission (and no matter how copyright to tolkein this fic may be, Nalani is still copyright me, and you're using her without my permission) or care.

1) It is not two years old. It was last updated last August. Besides, age doesn't have much to do with the Sue.

2) Talking about Nalani is not using her. If I wrote a story with Nalani as the central character and claimed she was mine, that would be using her. This is the distinction that you don't seem to get.

Another thing that bothers me is that some want to take blows at my intelligence. Well... none of you know me. Criticize the fic itself, leave me out of it because none of you know me at all. I'm not stupid, ignorant, or anything like that.

The only blows at your intelligence I saw were after you came here and flamed us. Otherwise, people were insulting your writing, not you. If you haven't learned to tell the difference, you should.

I still think it's hilarious that you guys get *this* much amusement out of ripping apart someone's work.

Well, if you find it amusing, I can understand you hanging around. But if you really don't care, why are you here?

I can't write for shit, but I tried.

Sometimes you try, and it doesn't work out the way you want it to. I know that. But if that's the case, revise and work on it, or, if you really don't think it can be improved or don't care, take it down. It seems that you still do care and do not think the story is shit, since you're here. If someone winds up with a bad story they don't revise, admit is bad, and yet still try to defend, something is wrong here. It makes you sound as though you want people to say, "Okay, the writing is bad, but it's still good!" That's the impression I'm getting at least.

So please, if you want to make fun of this fic I'm not stopping you because I know it sucks. Just don't make assumptions about me unless you know me.

I only made assumptions based on what I saw from your writing- for example, that you had read the book but obviously hadn't picked up on Asfaloth being the name of Glorfindel's horse, since you called her Pirotessa. If there's another explanation for that, then you need to give it. You can't just expect people to assume that you have a reason.

And I do know at least one thing about you: You claim the story is old and never meant to be read and shit, but you care enough to come here and flame.






(Reply to this) (Parent)

D'oh.
[info]elvea_aure
2003-07-11 06:22 am UTC (link)
We're not USING Nalani, sweetie. We're mentioning her, and commenting on her. We're not writing stories about her- we only give our opinions. It's not USING her. Learn the difference- we have the right of free press and free opinions, and it's all we're using. We're not breaking copyright law, because we're not using Nalani. Heck, none of us is stupid enough to even WANT to use her in the first place, lest it be for torture techniques.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Dude, seriously!
(Anonymous)
2003-07-10 09:04 am UTC (link)
I have an account on fanfiction, and once when I was browsing through, I found this one girl's account where she writes in her bio that she's not much of a writer, and then a bunch of OC's (who just happened to be there at the moment), assure her that she was. And she sucked beyond reason...= =

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Dude, seriously!
(Anonymous)
2004-03-14 02:55 pm UTC (link)
I have a cat. Hey, who are all these people? Umm... Whoops, wrong room. Sorry.

I happen to think that most fan fiction sucks. Especially Tolkien fan fiction. He was one of the greatest literary geniuses, creating a world filled with creatures whose abilities finely balance each other to create some magical equivalent of what you'd call an "ecosystem". And then people have to go and add a flying puppy who has been trained by elves to protect Sauron from the evil turnip bandits, and who can override any rules of magic at the drop of a hat. Yeeeeesss...

But as I said, I've stumbled into the wrong room. Can you please direct me to the nearest parallel universe?

Room 5A, down the hall? Okay, thanks.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]green_bird_
2004-03-17 01:01 pm UTC (link)
No, just from that preview... I don't think I could stomach it. I'm already fighting down the bile. >.<

(Reply to this)


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