batcountryrabid ([info]glassdarkly) wrote in [info]death_note,
@ 2005-05-31 18:00:00
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Back Again
Yes. Its the n00b. I've returned.

I'd like to point out that I fricking hate LJ Communities cause the people are generally mean, but after a month and a half of debating and deliberating with friends on the WTF's dn forum like some kind of csi investigator, I was pushed into coming back here. I'm nervous and defensive cause of my very bad experiences on lj, but I hear that this place is the only place to go when you want to talk about EVERYTHING that has happened in DN so far.

When I was last here, I'd only read up to ch 7. So I was rightfully thrown out. NOW its different. I've read every issue from wtf's, I read them over again when I'm bored, I have even been given links by a friend for scanlations of 61-63, and raw scans of 64 and 65.

I have many militant opinions about what I expect to happen and--the dreaded theory--whether or not there is yaoi in DN.

I do NOT cloud reality with fangirl ideals, so I'm willing to hear all sides of an argument without fighting.

OKAY THEN!! :=P now that I just unloaded a fucking resume on you poor people, I'd like to make friends and have debates and be in debates if thats all right....? I'm very shy about being here.

Um....yeah....don't know what else to say then :) excpet HI



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[info]spleen
2005-06-01 01:16 am UTC (link)
HI :D And welcome back ^_^

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 01:18 am UTC (link)
Thanx :)

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[info]electricpower
2005-06-01 01:21 am UTC (link)
Aww, mean people suck! D: *pats* Don't worry, I won't bite. ... Unless you want me to :D

Anyways, I don't think there's canonically any yaoi in DN, meaning that the creators intended to have Raito and L as an actual pairing, but I certainly like to pretend there is. I think that the whole L-and-Raito-handcuffed thing was pretty much thrown in there as fangirl bait, and we ate it up XD There's something about rivalslash that's particularly appealing, so I think that's why so many people (including myself) like to pair Raito and L. It's not implausible, and it certainly makes for interesting fanfics.

I also like MeroxNia yeay... and those two random guys from the Yotsuba arc, omgwut

Not much of a debate, but... just my two cents. Whoo. (and first comment I think? w00t.)

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 01:30 am UTC (link)
Well, we had a week long discussion that was really good until some jerk decided to chime in how he hated gays.

To put it simply, I don't look at the handcuff scene as the yaoi buzz, I see it as both fanservice and a way for comedy. I simply think that the subtext is too much to ignore--I tried, I couldn't shake it lol I looked past the fact that it was produced by Shounen Jump and tried looking at it from the FEMALE author.

What I saw was a secret but obvious to the reader (who knows that relationships aren't always chrisined by sex or kissing, just look at the getbackers lol) they had a certain interesting chemistry.

And besides, they were both so much alike. If there wasn't a romantic link between them there was certainly a spiritual one! :)

Perhaps I shouldn't have talked about this, I'm sure a big argument is gonna break out, so I just won't respond if anything angry flies up. But thats just the way I feel.

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[info]maboroshi_hime
2005-06-01 01:28 am UTC (link)
Hi!

..Did I miss something? ^^;;

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[info]svz_insanity
2005-06-01 02:34 am UTC (link)
Hey love! *hugs* Want me to drop by your journal and provide you with a useful link?

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(no subject) - [info]maboroshi_hime, 2005-06-01 04:00 am UTC

[info]dr_ghost
2005-06-01 01:37 am UTC (link)
The problem was not how less you read, it was the fact you were asking questions that would have been answered later on in the manga if you had taken the time to read it first.

Welcome back to the community though, I hope you find it more enjoyable now.

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 01:42 am UTC (link)
yes i understand that, it was hectic, but I suppose being told that L would die later on gave me a heads up and not freak out as much as I did....no thats not true, I was still INCONSOLABLE! lol jk

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(no subject) - [info]dr_ghost, 2005-06-01 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 01:56 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-06-01 01:59 am UTC (link)
Wait, the question of Death Note being a yaoi series or not is actually in debate? The hell? Clearly, this series is not a yaoi series. I really don't think that's debatable. Now if you want to talk about fan-interpreted subtext, that's a different story altogether and is open for discussion. There's plenty of that there, and I'm sure countless people will be happy to point them out to you. I mean, one isn't going to see the subtext and is certainly free to ignore it if one is only interested in what is on the surface and only on a purely textual level. If you're into writing fanfic and taking the original text and either digging deeper or adding to it, or if you're a fan of subtext and/or slashy relationships, then the subtext is there for you. I don't see what's to debate. It's a matter of preference, to me.

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 02:02 am UTC (link)
Okay, then thats what I'll do, I won't force my LIFESTYLE of fangirly goodness on you innocents ^^ I just wanted to tell you what I believed.

Even though I do still believe that it IS a yaoi series, but I'm not gonna say why or talk about it to anyone but the fangirls lol

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(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2005-06-01 03:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]indeigo, 2005-06-01 12:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]indeigo, 2005-06-02 12:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-02 12:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sly_wink, 2005-06-02 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-02 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sly_wink, 2005-06-02 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-02 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-02 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-02 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-02 08:47 pm UTC

[info]snm_queen
2005-06-01 02:25 am UTC (link)
First: Welcome back. May your stay be a little better this time.

Second: Although I am a rabid yaoi fangirl (I ship LightxL), I have to say, there is no way DeathNote is yaoi. It is a shounen manga, created for teens and adults, even children read it. I don't quite understand how you see DeathNote as a yaoi manga, so if I come off as condescending or anything, it's not my intention and I shall apologize beforehand.

Japan, no ASIA, is not ready for an outright homosexual manga that is now this popular and widely read. We still have issues with just seeing guys kiss one another (even if it's in a joking manner), let alone having a yaoi manga that is being read by millions of children, teens, and adults across Asia. There was a famous singer here in Taiwan who used an image of kissing men in one of her music videos and it was instantly banned the day is was released. Think about what would happen if DeathNote were definitely a yaoi manga; it wouldn't be so openly marketed, like Naruto is with Shounen Jump, but be in mostly yaoi magazines and news of it would spread thusly; but given its huge fan base, things obviously weren't done that way. Yes, I agree there are hints of yaoi but there are hints in all mangas. Mangakas do it to attract our crowd of yaoi lovers and the doujinshikas who will make their manga even more popular amoungst more people, specifically girls, the most difficult target group for a shounen manga) through their yaoi (or hentai) doujins. One Piece, Naruto, Harry Potter even, the list goes on and on but none of them are true yaoi mangas (one isn't even a manga).

As for yaoi mangas themselves, yes, they flurish but outside of mainstream Shounen Jump mangas; they don't get all too much exposure and any one that becomes insanely popular is remembered for years since it was considered amazing at that point in time. Take Gravitation or FAKE. Created a long time ago but staples in yaoi because they were the first successful main stream yaoi mangas; however, they were not marketed in Shonen Jump or as a shounen manga but specifically as a yaoi one. If DeathNote were yaoi, it would most definitely say so on the cover spine (asper most yaoi mangas) and be marketed as such.

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 03:28 am UTC (link)
Well, like In said, I'd rather not explain myself because I don't want to start anything. But I have to say that its bias to say that because its produced by shounen jump and is a shounen manga, it doesn't mean it can't have a gay character or subtext relationship in it. I mean, look at getbackers. I look at it from the authors point-of-view, and after that, I just have my fun shipping the characters.

I just got the feeling that Ryuuzaki had secret feelings for Yagami-kun, though I can't say the same for him. Won't go beyond that.

I'm afraif I had already went over all of my ideas on the wtf board, and it made me so tired and upset afterwards, the pure frustration was more than you can imagine lol

OH!! But if it makes you feel any better about me, I am a het shipper too. Um, this will sound really weird to a lot of you, but....I'm kind of a MelloXSayu shipper. *ducks rocks* I know its crap, but personally I think they'd make a cute couple.

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(no subject) - [info]snm_queen, 2005-06-01 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snm_queen, 2005-06-01 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-01 04:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 04:40 am UTC

[info]the_pixelized
2005-06-01 03:40 am UTC (link)
..Children read Death Note?

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(no subject) - [info]snm_queen, 2005-06-01 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snm_queen, 2005-06-01 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 03:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snm_queen, 2005-06-01 04:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_pixelized, 2005-06-01 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 10:25 pm UTC

[info]svz_insanity
2005-06-01 02:31 am UTC (link)
... You're back.

I'm a complete yaoi fangirl, but I don't believe Death Note is a yaoi or even shounen ai manga per se. It's all about subtext and subtle hints as well as the cat and mouse games. In my opinion, it certainly seems like the creator isn't denying yaoi fans-- and in fact, the creator sorta eggs us on... handcuffs. HANDCUFFS, I say. That made me very happy.

No offense, but I think the entire "is it yaoi or isn't it?" debate has already been touched upon, and you can ask that about various other anime/manga. What comes to my mind first is TeniPuri, Naruto, Hikaru no Go,Yu Yu Hakusho, FMA, Gundam Wing, etc. Basically any shounen series that involves pretty boys always have a wide fangirl base-- and many of them are slashers.

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[info]inane_nana
2005-06-01 03:17 am UTC (link)
completely unrelated:

You icon is the nuke. yes it is, yes it is. *Random!cookies* wee.

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(no subject) - [info]svz_insanity, 2005-06-01 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]inane_nana, 2005-06-01 03:28 am UTC

[info]the_pixelized
2005-06-01 03:43 am UTC (link)
Agreed that your icon owns. XD

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(no subject) - [info]grey_lily, 2005-06-01 10:09 am UTC

[info]suriyawong
2005-06-01 02:57 am UTC (link)
I'm glad to see you've taken measures to educate yourself since your last visit. Proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation may further aid your reputation, but this being the internet, none of the above are actually necessary.

While I would never shoot down the possibility of slash within Death Note, I disagree with it being labeled a "yaoi series". Since it is, you know, running in Shounen Jump, the primary audience being young males.

Remember kids, manga doesn't have to be of the shounen-ai/yaoi genre to include gay subtext.

I apologize in advance if this sounds like complete gibberish. I'm kind of drunk.

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[info]inane_nana
2005-06-01 03:26 am UTC (link)
noob, here also, so yeah.
when I discovered DN, I was completely isolated from the fandom... you know. And when I discovered the zillions fics on L/Raito, and I was like WTF?1eleven! sixtythree! *falls off chair*

I may be unfamiliar with yaoi [though I have nothing against it ^^], but there was no way on earth Raito could even be attracted to L... [he killed the dude without a touch of remorse after all -_-; *meanie*] Matsuda also has his share of yaoi-ness, although he's kind of portrayed as a womanizer... [but that's another topic, i guess ^_^]

So, I'd agree with the rest, and say that L/Raito and all the yaoi is just fanon. But it's goodness fanon.. That's why crack fandom exists, ne? Also, if innuendo keeps the sales up for Shounen Jump, they probably did add the little 'chain' thing to keep females fans in ^_^..

Ah, but that's just what I think >_<;

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[info]the_pixelized
2005-06-01 03:33 am UTC (link)
I'm not going to say much about the whole drama bit, but, I think that, instead of running off if people don't take to you at first, it's better to stick around and prove your worth if you've got any. Also, it's really better to get up-to-date with a fandom before you start to plunge into it.

Also, hi. And welcome to the community. :)

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 03:33 am UTC (link)
Oh and just so you know as long as we're on the topic of my odd ideas, I'm also a militant believer that L is not dead. But don't worry, only for the right reasons, not just cause hes a cool character. I'm OBSESSED with Mello's sweet ass, so at the moment I don't need L. But I do believe he's the only one who has the right to kill Kira...

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[info]randompantat
2005-06-01 05:34 am UTC (link)
you are quite chatty for a shy person ^^:;

i gotta stick with other peeps tho when i say deathnote is definitely not a yaoi or shounen-ai. it has certain elements that spurs fangirls to create fanfictions etc. but it's definitely not directly intended to be yaoi or sa because if it is then trust me, it wont be in shonen jump.

definitely many bl hints in deathnote. but yeah, definitely still considered a shonen series. :\

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 05:42 am UTC (link)
well, no one except the author will convince me that, but I get ya

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(no subject) - [info]randompantat, 2005-06-01 05:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glassdarkly, 2005-06-01 05:52 am UTC

[info]fusakugyoku
2005-06-01 07:24 pm UTC (link)
A manga series is only considered "shounen-ai" if there is a gay relationship that is THE MAIN FOCUS of the series. The fact that DN has gone more than a year without a definite focus on any kind of romantic relationship whatsoever kinda proves that it's not a "shounen-ai" series. I mean, you might as well say that DN is a romance series because Misa likes Raitou.

Corollary to this, if a manga series has a gay character in it, again, that does not mean that it's a shounen-ai series.

In other words, there's no way you can say DN is a shounen-ai series. Thus, to rephrase your question: Do L and Light have a relationship?

You've said that "Just because it's Jump doesn't mean there can't be gays." True, nothing says that at all. And there've been some sexual-orientation-challenged charas in Jump series (not many, but some). However, the fact that it IS placed in Jump DOES give it some restrictions. It may surprise you how much an editor influences the story. The author IS out there to make some money, you know (and she needs it, seeing as most mangaka are poor as dirt). The Japanese, if you haven't noticed, tend to be fairly conservative. Something like slash in DN would probably send moms screaming. (And audiences HAVE gotten manga series dropped before; just look at Kuni ga Moeru, which was dropped from Young Jump not for sexuality or violence, but because it contained political opinions that many Japanese do not agree with.)

Jump is aimed for boys. Younger boys in fact. Ohba is not out there to satisfy you. In actuality, hints of Misa and Light's relationship probably incites more fankid squeals than Light and L. (Remember the boys, my friend.)

Now, speaking of undertones...yes, it's quite possible that DN has shounen-ai undertones, however, they will remain just that--undertones. Most 13-year old boys do NOT want to see two young men make out, unless it's for comic relief. Ohba does keep in undertones to bait fangirls such as yourself, but she won't go any further. She does this for ratings (And you can't play the gender card here, because Konami Takeshi puts in PLENTY of s-ai undertones in tenipuri, but NEVER goes further with them).

I know full well that you'll respond to this with something along the lines of "well, that's just your opinion." Let's put it this way: Light and L ARE gay...just not in the Jump version of the story. Ohba may even want to make them gay and may say that they are (thought, IN MY OPINION I highly doubt it). However, there is no way that editors will allow this relationship. And, because Ohba is such an artist rather than a pulpist, she probably knows better as well. You are very hopeful, but that's your hormones and not your head talking.

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-01 10:29 pm UTC (link)
May I ask why the yaoi thing is the only thing you guys are interested in about me? -_-

And Raito friggin hates Misa, or at least is severly annoyed by her. I love Misa. I don't know why shes just one of those dumb evil girls that I adore, like seras victoria ^^ And the way things have been in 64, it looks like Raito is on the verge of beating Misa...*sad*

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[info]4ti3k4t35
2005-06-02 01:10 am UTC (link)
OKAY THEN!! :=P now that I just unloaded a fucking resume on you poor people, I'd like to make friends and have debates and be in debates if thats all right....? I'm very shy about being here.


I didn't like you until you said that. Now I love you. *HUG* +10 POINTS. A++++++

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-02 02:22 am UTC (link)
Alrighty then *hugs back*

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[info]keifu
2005-06-02 02:06 am UTC (link)
heya..welcome back XD... I don't think there's yaoi in DN..hmms.

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[info]felicius_rex
2005-06-02 04:36 pm UTC (link)
you sound really familiar.... is that you, baneboogie?

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[info]glassdarkly
2005-06-02 08:46 pm UTC (link)
Yep.

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