deaf: L33T Gamerz need only reply (heck, anyone can reply really).

deaf_skribbler (

deaf_skribbler) wrote in

deaf,
@ 2006-03-20 20:42:00

L33T Gamerz need only reply (heck, anyone can reply really).
I'm working on a little project regarding problems with videogames and gameplay for the Deaf Community.

If you're deaf/Deaf/hard of hearing/late-deafened etc. and fit one or more of these categories:

-- play videogames (any genre) on game systems like PS2, PSP, Nintendo, Xbox, etc.

-- play PC videogames of any genre (action, RPG, online multiplayer, sports etc.)

-- play one or more of those EverWarSuperhero Galaxies Front MMORGs etc.

I'd like to know about some of your complaints about certain games or game play functions that aren't as accessible to you than to a hearing person. I've experienced a few problems myself, but I don't get to play as many different kinds of games so I can't really list all of the different problems that can pop up. So, I want to find out about your complaints, opinions, and personal stories of stuff that you noticed or experienced.

Some sample questions to help you out--
Were there any games you were interested in playing but then found out you couldn't really play it well because it relied too much on sound information?

Were there any times you felt left out from a group of players because you couldn't participate as fully as a hearing gamer could?

Do you ever prefer playing older games because the newer games aren't as accessible (no subtitles, too much sound in gameplay etc.)?

Did you ever end up getting a strategy guide that told you how to do something because inside the game, the clues were all in sound or music?

Vent your spleen!

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drake_anaya
2006-03-20 09:18 pm UTC (link)

Dance Dance Revolution!
I'm HOH and/but also extremely sensitive to sound. For some reason, the songs in DDR all come at different volume levels, and I find myself constantly adjusting for songs that are either too loud or too quiet.
Then there are songs that I can hear the melodies for, but not the beats (because of the pitch/frequency), and the beats are what you actually dance to...

I also watch my boyfriend play a lot of RPGs. Some of them default with subtitles on for the "cut scenes", some default with them off, and some don't have subtitles at all. I don't mind watching TV with captions off, but for some reason video game dubbing (and some anime as well) suffers from what is IMHO bad volume matching and I find I can often only hear one half of the conversation. And when you're watching the game for the story/plot rather than actually playing it, well... hearing (or being able to read) it kind of matters.

And then there are some areas in the MMORPG "Ragnarok Online" where some dangerous and/or aggressive monsters are stationary, but are very well hidden within the map (as a feature). The only way to find some of them is with a really sharp eye and a good ear for the audio clues. Often the audio is easier than trying to see the monsters, as you can hear sound effects for monsters before they are on the screen, but some of them have nondescript audio (ie, sound like everything else on the map). If I turn the background music off, I can hear them/tell them apart a little better, but BGM is part of the experience, too. :/

If I think of anything else, I'll add to this. These just stuck out in my head, and I have to away myself to an ENT appointment ;)

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kaimia9
2006-03-20 10:34 pm UTC (link)

I'm HOH and sensitive to sound as well (hyperacusis). I have DDR on my computer, so if I"m playing alone, I often wear headphones to make hearing easier (and so I don't make my dorm neighbors angry from having the music really loud!) It's kind of annoying to deal with the cord, but at least I can hear it better. If I'm playing with friends, I sometimes put the mic to my FM system near the speaker so I can hear better and adjust my own volume if need be.

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kaimia9
2006-03-20 10:32 pm UTC (link)

The Star Wars games. I had Jedi Academy on my computer for awhile (haven't put it back on since I had to wipe the HD). I liked the game but much of the dialogue wasn't captioned. I managed okay without, but it would have been really nice to have had captions. Halflife was the same way.

I play at LAN parties with friends, and it's always difficult to communicate with other team members. We all have headsets, and I can talk to them fine, but I can't hear well enough to tell what they're saying on them. In that case, I try to sit next to a team member (or someone not playing) and they relay important directions and info to me.

And I can never locate which direction gunfire is coming from, even with headphones on. I don't know how many times I've heard gunfire, decided it was coming from one direction, and gone the opposite direction, only to end up dead becuase I guessed wrong.

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	boult 2006-03-20 10:40 pm UTC (link)
	check this out: http://gamescc.rbkdesign.com/ (Reply to this)(Thread)

	That reminds me... kaimia9 2006-03-21 04:53 am UTC (link)
	I saw a website once that had video/computer game reviews and had a section on whether or not they were accessible to the deaf/hoh, but I can't remember where it was. I tried Googling and still can't find it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: That reminds me... deaf_skribbler 2006-03-22 11:33 pm UTC (link)
	It might be the link Woofiegrrl just posted- deafgamers.com. I also found it through the Games[CC] site too. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: That reminds me... kaimia9 2006-03-22 11:37 pm UTC (link)
	No, I think it was more of a regular game review website that just happened to have a section on accessibility because one of their employees was deaf. I still can't remember where though. This is going to bug me until I find it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: That reminds me... codeman38 2006-03-24 02:16 am UTC (link)
	http://www.gamecritics.com/? They have a section in their reviews for deaf/HOH accessibility, anyway. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: That reminds me... kaimia9 2006-03-24 04:50 am UTC (link)
	Ah ha! Yes, that's it! Thank you! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	deaf_skribbler 2006-03-22 11:34 pm UTC (link)
	That's a fantastic link, thanks! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ginithekiller 2006-03-20 10:52 pm UTC (link)
	I play World of Warcraft. its a good game except the Ventrillo. Where everybody can speak and hear on Microphone while playing WoW, they don't have to type anything. UGH. i feel left out. oh im deaf. (Reply to this)

cannonstar
2006-03-20 11:59 pm UTC (link)

I'd second the vent channel program too. Too often I get left out on EVE online because lots of other hearing players oftenly use vent to coordinate battle-plans or chat because it's more easier than typing out plans on the chat channel.

God of War had pratically no subtitles during the cutscenes, which sucked because that game attracted me alot and I'm a big sucker for a good storyline (there were subtitles during the gameplay though). I tend to frown upon games with no subtitles during cutscenes because I pay hefty bucks for the gameplay and the story, sometimes for visuals, but mainly those two.

Another game that suffers from lack of subtitles are GTA games, oftenly I hear pedestrians yelling out and saying stuff but I don't understand what they're saying so I get a bit frustrated but since GTA games have their story and missions subtitled and the game is so damned fun, so I'm fine with that.

Usage of audio in gameplay (locating stuff by use of sounds, or doing puzzles) doesn't bug me at all, I'm able of doing them with ease.

I prefer old games, but that's the matter of taste rather than accessiblity.

I'm hard of hearing with a CI. I play mainly PC and PS2.

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starofsorrow
2006-03-21 09:17 pm UTC (link)

I'm Deaf, and I've played games ever since I was six years old. (I'm 22 now.)

Right now:

World of Warcraft - The monsters make a warcry sound from what others have told me. If I aggro a monster, they make a war cry and chase me down when I'm running somewhere. Ventrilio is also a problem (Voice-chat software), but I have been lucky so far to have joined a guild that doesn't really use it. =) The introduction and the scenes in the World of Warcraft movies are not subtitled, even though I've turned them on permanently. It is DAMN ANNOYING!

Ragnarok Online - The only MAJOR problem with this game is that almost EVERY SINGLE PERSON uses Ventrilio. The guild I was in on that game used it ALL the time, so nobody'd be talking in the guild chat when I log on, and I'd be wondering what the hell the point was in joining a guild and being accepted there after a trial. They all knew I was deaf, as well.

DDR - It's very hard for me to dance on the machines with the processor, since my hair makes the processor fall off, and I lose the rhythm when it happens. I can do it pretty well on the computer, and I've played it with and without my cochlear implant. It's easier when you can hear the music. And more fun.

Games that I used to play:

Echo the Dolphin - I got this on the Sega console when I was a child. WTF was my mother thinking? You need sound almost throughout the entire game! Needless to say, it did NOT keep me enterained, and I abandoned the game for my brother's games.

That's all I can think of right now! I can post more after classes today if you'd like more information. =)

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	starofsorrow 2006-03-21 09:20 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, yeah, I forgot the consoles! I've played on: PS, PS2, XBox, computer, Sega, SNES, SN, N64, Gameboy. I currently own PS2 and a computer. =) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	deaf_skribbler 2006-03-22 11:38 pm UTC (link)
	The information you've given is plenty- I've just been looking for problems that I haven't personally encountered because I don't play games much anymore. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	woofiegrrl 2006-03-22 01:46 am UTC (link)
	http://www.deafgamers.com/ :) (Reply to this)

gordknot
2006-03-22 04:16 pm UTC (link)

I used to play a lot of RPGs - Journeyman (1 and 3), Weather Disaster (yeah, sounds lame, but it was a good one). If I recall correctly, Journeyman 3 had subs, but the others didn't. Big bummer.

Now, FPSs are all I really have time for. Far Cry was great - the radar button showed ripples emanating from sound sources. I don't believe it showed enemy speech or footsteps, which was unfortunate, but it did show sound from thrown rocks, vehicles (jeeps and helicopters) and weapons fire. Great tool. Much better than Counterstrike in that regard.

Thief 3 by Eidos made it halfway there - there was a "light meter" that showed how visible you were, as a function both of the light you were in and how nervous/alert enemies were. But sound itself was not covered - footsteps, noisemaker devices, etc. And there were a few levels where if you listened to the flavor speech in the background, you could solve the puzzles much faster, but only the cutscenes were subbed.

The biggest improvement in my gaming, however, has been my DAI cable. No more hearing complaints from my roommate when I crank the volume all the way up and unload a P90, eh?

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	deaf_skribbler 2006-03-22 11:36 pm UTC (link)
	I've read a little about Far Cry- the radar is the game "representation" of the heightened animal senses the hero gets, right? Better hearing, better vision, etc... The DAI cable goes directly to your hearing aid/CI? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

gordknot
2006-03-22 11:44 pm UTC (link)

Not heightened senses exactly, although the plotline did feature "genetically" enhanced primates of some sort ... I'm trying to remember (been a while since I played it). I think the hero picked up uber-binoculars near the beginning, but I seem to remember the sound part being there right from the start. They did contain some enhancements - the binoculars would show the range to the enemy you were looking at, and any enemy you looked at with them would be tagged on your radar (along with a color code to match how aware they were of you - yellow if they didn't know you were there, orange if they were suspicious, and red if they were actively looking for you). But although it was displayed on the same circle on the HUD, I think the sound was just a visual representation of what the hero heard "naturally".

My guess would be that they put that in to appease gamers with mono headsets, or who don't have their speakers set up *perfectly* - directional "hearing" was a big part of the gameplay (and echoing - fire an automatic weapon or toss a grenade in a corridor, and the sound would bounce all over).

The DAI goes directly to my aid, yes. Recently, though, I've started using my FM system instead - plug it into the headphone jack and it transmits to my aid. No more yanking my aids out when I forget to unplug it, heh. And it confuses the hell out of my roommate: "can you hear me now, or not?"

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dethtoll
2006-03-30 04:56 am UTC (link)

thief has always had a light gem. thief 3 also has subtitles; look around in the sound options, i believe. unfortunately the first two aren't subbed (they're much older.) however there's a dedicated community at www.ttlg.com that's done transcripts of all the flavor conversations in both thief 1 and 2, so i printed them out and read along whenever i come to one of the convos. same for the cutscenes and briefings.

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dethtoll
2006-03-30 04:53 am UTC (link)

this is a big one for me- no subtitles in a story-heavy game. system shock 2 is really bad at this. the audio logs all have text, although it's not an exact transcript (which makes me glad i'm only HOH- i can pick up on some things, like a certain audio log where you hear someone begging for their life in the background, but it's not transcripted in the audio log.) however, many of your enemies speak, but their voices are obscured (the zombies for instance have deep, constantly changing voices, and the cyborg midwives with an overly synthesised female voice are absolutely unintelligible). there's also several other scenes where voices are obscured by too much noise. the game has absolutely no subtitles for these situations.

ironically, the first half-life, despite having no subtitles whatsoever (whereas the 2nd one does) is often much easier to understand than most other FPS games of that era, which is especially suprising considering how revolutionary it was in terms of storytelling. i think most of it must be because there is rarely any background music, and any background noise is typically kind of muted. only ones hard to understand are soldiers, who sound like they're speaking over radio frequencies.

half-life 2 provides subtitles for most sections of the game, but the irony is that it doesn't provide subs for enemy dialogue (they do a lot of shouting over the radio, and it's hard to understand, much like the marines in the predecessing game).

i also turn off voice when i play online games; most of those people are impossible to understand, usually sound like morons anyway, and i'd really rather not have them dropping F-bombs while my mom's in the next room.

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vriezen
2006-10-28 07:51 pm UTC (link)

I am a bit Deaf myself. I've always been an avid gamer since I played Pitfall on Atari when I was a little kid. Currently I own well not a PC but a Mac so I can play World of Warcraft. The rest of my games I play on console. I own an Xbox, PS2, PSP at the moment. None of the next gen games just yet mostly considering that I promised myself I would buy a high definition TV beforehand. I play games whenever I can. Usually with sports games subtitles aren't always necessary. Actually I'd rather amend that statement. The option for subtitles should always be necessary. I may be able to hear a bit but cranking up the surround sound or putting on headphones is not always an option. My girlfriend is hearing and unfortunately I am not allowed to increase the volume up to high heaven. Not only that but it makes a game which is supposed to be fun and takes away from the entire experience. With any sort of deafness no matter how mild or severe it takes quite a bit of effort to try and hear and decipher things you can't always understand no matter how many times you listen to it. Functioning in a world where a high percentage of people have normal hearing and "working to hear", its great to come home and watch a movie or tv with captions. Games are meant to be entertainment and enjoyable and games that rely on sound or spoken story are rather habitual at leaving people with a hearing loss out.

World of Warcraft, there are a few instances where you could use sound, honestly its an MMORPG and I am glad with the exception of Vent that sound is not required. Sure it has happened plenty of times when you aggro a MOB and you don't hear that you are being attacked. At least you can watch your life or install mods with visual cues to your health depletion. Considering its an MMORPG even if my hearing was normal I would think I'd rather like the text basis rather than using Vent considering the fact that I'd rather listen to my own music or my ipod or blare music loudly when my girlfriend isn't home. Its a lot better half the time than listening to a chat while playing a game with 20 people talking at once during a raid.

To add to World of Warcraft, there are at least 7 of us playing Alliance on the Garona server. Not including CODA's. The guild we are in, using Vent is optional. As far as I know it doesn't seem like more than half use it either way. Even if they did there are 7 of us in the guild that couldn't really use it very effectively either way.

God of War. I love that game. That game was awesome. Great story line, gameplay, action and graphics. Honestly the only thing that disappointed me about the game was the fact that the cut scenes were not subtitled. Even more so was that the storyline was excellent and engrossing and it was NOT one of those stories where you're like "Okay whatever, lets get on with the gameplay." It was part of the gaming experience and entertainment value that got lost in it. My girlfriend interpreted most of the parts I miss when she was around but I still missed a bit. Kind of messes around with the issue of dependence.

This might be a bit old school but I can remember a particular moment playing the original Myst when it came out. A group of us would play it together trying to solve the puzzles, this was at the library at Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf. We played that game all the way until we got to the part with the piano and we had to match the tones of the keys in the order in which we were given the tune. A few of us, including myself had quite a bit of hearing but neither of us could get it. The librarian who was hearing helped us out and another teacher who was as well. Ironically they couldn't get it perfect either. A half hour later with a group of 10 of us taking turns trying to beat this part we finally got it and went on plowing through the game and beat it. I look back at that all the time and think wow, if it wasn't for the librarian and the teacher there would have been no way we could have beat that part without their help.

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Part 2 (too long for a single reply apparently)

vriezen
2006-10-28 07:51 pm UTC (link)

Fast forward to Warcraft II. When I was at Gallaudet there was a group of us that would play in the computer lab on the occasional Saturday night. We would take a divider and divide 8 computers into 2 groups. Four of us to a team we would use the text and type battle plans on the battle chat. Never had to use subtitles or worry about headsets or anything. It was great and a lot of fun as well. Blizzard has always been rather good with keeping it keyboard chat related and the sounds sometime would help with gameplay at moments but not at all would deprive us from the entire experience of the game itself.

Final Fantasy is another good game series. I've played quite a few of them although not all, but the ones that I did not play, my Deaf friends played it themselves. Final Fantasy and as far as I know Square Enix (the company that produces Final Fantasy) does a good job with subtitles in gameplay and storyline.

I play a lot of games and not to mention a lot of variety. Currently I own over 60 of them between the PSP, PS2 and Xbox and computer. I suppose this reply in itself has been rather long and no way I could fit all the games I played into a single reply post. I love games, movies and a lot of things and one thing I value and never underappreciate is accessibility. I look forward to the day that ADA law is updated to fit the current century. Especially considering that the movies and videos that you can purchase from the iTunes store and download to your iPod are not subtitled at all. My brother and I have sent formal emails to them and it seems the new system release in January will finally address the captioning issue for quicktime movies and basically the core of it at least for Mac computers.

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