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Dark Christianity - Rise of the New Atheists
Exploring and Exposing Dominionist Christianity
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Rise of the New Atheists
Despite its title, this very much belongs here. Read on and see.

An increasingly outspoken community of atheists and agnostics is getting fed up with being marginalized, ignored and insulted.

By Ronald Aronson, The Nation
Posted on June 16, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/story/54054/

What began with publisher W.W. Norton taking a chance on a gutsy, hyperbolic and idiosyncratic attack on religion by a graduate student in neuroscience has grown into a remarkable intellectual wave. No fewer than five books by the New Atheists have appeared on bestseller lists in the past two years -- Sam Harris's The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation, Daniel Dennett's Breaking the Spell, Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion and now Christopher Hitchens's God Is Not Great. The scandalized media have both attacked and inflated the phenomenon. After the New York Times Book Review, for example, ran a thoughtful review of Harris and then a negative front-page review of Dawkins, the daily paper published two weak op-ed attacks on the writers and a vapid article on how atheists celebrate Christmas, followed by tongue-in-cheek admiration in the Book Review for Hitchens's ability to promote his career by saying the unexpected.

Despite such dubious blessings, the four have become must-read writers. The most remarkable fact is not their books themselves -- blunt, no-holds-barred attacks on religion in different registers -- but that they have succeeded in reaching mainstream readers and in becoming bestsellers. Is this because Americans are beginning to get fed up with the religiosity of the past several years? It would be comforting if we could explain this as a cultural signal of the end of the right-wing/evangelical ascendancy. Such speculations are probably wishful thinking -- book buyers are such a small slice of the population that few sociologists would stake their careers on claiming that book buyers' preferences reflect anything like a national mood.

The success of the New Atheists may, however, reflect something significant among their audience. In the past generation in the United States, atheists, agnostics and secular humanists have been a timid minority -- almost voiceless, often on the defensive, routinely derided, both warned against and ignored. As Susan Jacoby pointed out in her book Freethinkers, it is symptomatic of the situation that the most dramatic presidential address in generations took place in the National Cathedral three days after September 11, 2001, so filled with religious language that it sounded like a sermon. It was delivered by a President flanked by Jewish, Muslim and Christian representatives, a model of religious inclusiveness, without anyone standing alongside them representing the tens of millions of nonreligious Americans. At this most important collective moment in our recent history, it was as if they did not exist. This is what the polls are telling us: Virtually everyone in America believes in God.

We know how zealously the conservative Christian denominations have politicized themselves in the past generation, how the GOP has harnessed this energy by embracing their demands -- opposing stem-cell research, gay marriage and abortion rights, championing government aid to religious schools and faith-based social programs -- and by appointing sympathetic judges. So effectively have they framed the issues that, according to the Pew Research Center's 2006 report on religion and public life, fully 69 percent of Americans believe that liberals have "gone too far in trying to keep religion out of schools and government."

We commonly hear that only a tiny percentage of Americans don't believe in God and that, as a Newsweek poll claimed this spring, 91 percent do. In fact, this is not true. How many unbelievers are there? The question is difficult to assess accurately because of the challenges of constructing survey questions that do not tap into the prevailing biases about religion. According to the American Religious Identification Survey, which interviewed more than 50,000 people, more than 29 million adults -- one in seven Americans -- declare themselves to be without religion. The more recent Baylor Religion Survey ("American Piety in the 21st Century") of more than 1,700 people, which bills itself as "the most extensive and sensitive study of religion ever conducted," calls for adjusting this number downward to exclude those who believe in a God but do not belong to a religion. Fair enough. But Baylor's own Gallup survey is a bit shaky for at least two reasons.

It counts anyone who believes in a "higher power" but not God as believing in God -- casting a vast net over adherents of everything from spirit to history to love. Yet the study allows unbelievers only one option: to not believe in "anything beyond the physical world," leaving no space for those who regard themselves as agnostics or skeptics, secularists or humanists. Contrast this with a more recent and more nuanced Financial Times/Harris poll of Europeans and Americans that allowed respondents to declare agnosticism as well as atheism: 18 percent of the more than 2,000 American respondents chose one or the other, while 73 percent affirmed belief in God or a supreme being.

A more general issue affects American surveys on religious beliefs, namely, the "social desirability effect," in which respondents are reluctant to give an unpopular answer in a society in which being religious is the norm. What happens when questions are framed to overcome this distortion? The FT/H poll tried to counteract it by allowing space not only for the customary "Not sure" but also for "Would prefer not to say" -- and 6 percent of Americans chose this as their answer to the question of whether they believed in God or a supreme being. Add to this those who declared themselves as atheists or agnostics and, lo and behold, the possible sum of unbelievers is nearly one in four Americans.

All this helps explain the popularity of the New Atheists -- Americans as a whole may not be getting too much religion, but a significant constituency must be getting fed up with being routinely marginalized, ignored and insulted. After all, unbelievers are concentrated at the higher end of the educational scale -- a recent Harris American poll shows that 31 percent of those with postgraduate education do not avow belief in God (compared with only 14 percent of those with a high school education or less). The percentage rises among professors and then again among professors at research universities, reaching 93 percent among members of the National Academy of Sciences. Unbelievers are to be found concentrated among those whose professional lives emphasize science or rationality and who also have developed a relatively high level of confidence in their own intellectual faculties. And they are frequently teachers or opinion-makers.

But over the past generation they have come to feel beleaguered and, except for rare individuals like comedian and talk-show host Bill Maher, voiceless in the public arena. The great success of the New Atheists is to have reached them, both speaking to and for them. These writers are devoted, with sledgehammer force and angry urgency, to "breaking the spell" cast by the religious ascendancy, to overcoming a situation in which every other area of life can be critically analyzed while admittedly irrational religious faith is made central to American life but exempted from serious discussion.

This does not make for restraint. Harris displays brash self-confidence, Hitchens and Dawkins angry intellectual bite and Dennett an inexhaustible theoretical energy and range of inquiry. Harris excoriates religious moderates, accusing them of providing cover for fundamentalists at home and abroad by refusing to contest the extremists' premises -- because they share them. More upbeat, Dennett is devoted to creating the intellectual conditions for future discussions, in which religion will be treated as just another "natural" phenomenon and accordingly subjected to critical scrutiny. Dawkins bulldozes his way through every major argument for religious belief, and a great many minor ones. And Hitchens endlessly catalogues religion's crimes and absurdities. Each man is at war, writing as if no others had preceded him, and with a passion that can only be described as political.

Above all, each sees himself as breaking a taboo. This explains not only the vigor and urgency of these books, their mainstream character and their publishing success but also the common refrain in reviews that they have "gone too far." Of course they have, because their many faults are often inseparable from their strengths. Self-indulgence is their common flaw: Dennett and Dawkins might have considered their readers more and disciplined their own need to follow out every line of thought, while Harris is so full of his point of view that he, like Hitchens, is unable to consider faith as anything but stupid. They show little understanding of religion or interest in it [see Daniel Lazare, "Among the Disbelievers," May 28]. Still, I am surprised by the hostility and bemusement expressed toward them by their fellow travelers in The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker and The London Review of Books. In attacking religion the four have been breaking the taboo against talking about it seriously, and they may be forgiven for not being calmer, more expert or more measured. Doing battle with what they see as the most pervasive and bothersome phenomenon in American life during the past generation, Harris, Dennett, Dawkins and Hitchens deserve praise for their courage and tenacity in shattering its spell.

Where does the work of the New Atheists leave us? I hope they have roused a significant portion of America from its timidity. But to what end? Living without God means turning toward something. To flourish we need coherent secular popular philosophies that effectively answer life's vital questions. Enlightenment optimism once supplied unbelievers with hope for a better world, whether this was based on Marxism, science, education or democracy. After Progress, after Marxism, is it any wonder atheism fell on hard times? Restoring secular confidence will take much positive work as well as the fierce attacks on religion by our atheist champions. On a societal level, as Ronald Inglehart and Pippa Norris point out in Sacred and Secular, living without God requires creating conditions in which people are free from the kinds of existential vulnerability that have marked all human societies until the advent of Europe's postindustrial welfare states. Markedly more religious than any of them, the United States provides a life that is far more unequal and far more insecure.

The surprising response to the New Atheist offensive should thus inspire us to think politically as well as philosophically. As a first step this demands creating a coalition between unbelievers and their natural allies, secular-minded believers. I am speaking first about many millions of Americans who nominally belong to a religion but effectively live without any active relationship either to it or to God, or belong to a church and attend services but are "tacit atheists," living day in and day out with only token reference to God. And I also include the many believers who accept the principle of America as a secular society. These include members of the liberal Jewish and Christian denominations, who have long practice in accommodating themselves to science and the modern world and who, as the National Council of Churches website tells us, may remain inspired by Genesis while not needing to take it in "literal, factual terms." Many of these turned up in the most significant finding of the Baylor survey, namely that more than one in four American "believers" does not mean by this a personal God at all but a distant God who has little or nothing to do with the world or themselves. This sounds very much like the deist God of "unbelievers" Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

These believers, along with those who think of themselves as "spiritual," as well as professed unbelievers, help to explain why according to the Pew study so many Americans -- 32 percent -- want less religious influence on government. Twenty-four percent say that President Bush talks too much about his religious faith and prayer, and 28 percent deny that the United States is a Christian nation. Most dramatically, a whopping 49 percent believe that Christian conservatives have gone too far "in trying to impose their religious values on the country." This, then, is an unreported secret of American life: Considerable numbers of Americans, religious and secular, are becoming fed up with the in-your-face religion that has come to mark our society.

Until now the most vocal left-of-center response to the Christian right, for example by Sojourners, has been to call for more religion in politics, not less. In early June the group organized a nationally televised forum at which John Edwards, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton testified to their faith, talking about the "hand of God" (Edwards), forgiveness (Obama) and prayer (Clinton). Few loud-and-clear voices have been agitating in the mainstream on behalf of the separation of church and state, for secular and public education, or demanding less rather than more political discussion of religion. Yet tens of millions of Americans worry about such things.

Whether most of them continue to believe in God matters much less than that they are comfortable with secular knowledge and America's secular Constitution. Barry Lynn, for example, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, is a Protestant minister. Although Harris and Dawkins castigate all believers for sharing the premises of conservative Christians, the fact is that many believers could easily be working with out-and-out atheists and agnostics on key issues.

Such a coalition should take the offensive on behalf of American constitutional promises of a secular society, increasingly under threat from Bush's Supreme Court appointments. It will gain support in unexpected places: Judge John Jones III, a Bush appointee, delivered a devastating blow to the forces behind "intelligent design" in his December 2005 decision in the Dover School Board case. The first half of his impressive decision contains a crystal-clear reflection on what science is and why intelligent design, a refurbished form of creationism, is religion, not science. The second half reads like a whodunit, revealing how a minority on the school board conspired to impose intelligent design on the district. It should be a rallying point for the nearly half of all Americans who are disturbed by right-wing religious attempts to impose their faith on the rest of us. An immediate goal should be a call for the publication and widest possible distribution of the Dover decision. It could become another bestseller -- by a conservative judge no less! -- and a text for civics, current events, history, law and basic science classes.

A second goal of such a coalition might be a campaign to reorient American thinking about atheists and atheism. In recent polls, far more respondents have declared themselves willing to vote for a woman or African-American for President than for an atheist -- atheists are more unpopular than gays. Television news viewers are encouraged to nod in agreement with such ageless gibes as "There are no atheists in foxholes" without seeing just how nasty they are. This obnoxious remark, by Katie Couric on NBC's Today show, drew a few complaints and letters, but no wider protests or apology. A coalition determined to widen the range of socially acceptable belief could make a significant difference on such issues.

A broad secular coalition could also demand more nuanced discussion of the range of belief and unbelief in America today. Rather than consciously or unconsciously promoting religious belief, public opinion research should try to register a full range of beliefs, including the interesting and perplexing ways in which people live secular as well as religious lives and their sometimes contradictory combinations. These are rejected by Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens, and ignored by the media and mainstream politicians.

Finally, such an alliance could become one place where Dennett's goal of discussing religion openly and critically -- as well as atheism and agnosticism -- could begin to be realized. A number of questions might be explored: What, for example, is the common ground and what are the differences between believers and unbelievers? And -- I save for last the touchiest question of all -- shouldn't all Americans be instructed in the great religious and secular traditions, as well as their greatest books? After all, achieving literacy in both religion and secularism might allow us to discuss them more intelligently.

Ronald Aronson is the author of The Dialectics of Disaster, After Marxism and Camus and Sartre: The Story of a Friendship and the Quarrel That Ended It. His latest book is Living Without God, to be published next year by Counterpoint. He teaches at Wayne State University.

Current Mood: thoughtful

Comments
roseross From: [info]roseross Date: June 16th, 2007 03:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Militant atheists are the only group other than the Dominionists who scare me because they are so intolerant of others' spiritual beliefs. They insult people who believe differently than they do. They insist that ALL will some day believe as they do, because they're the only people who have it right. They often feel using the government to enforce their worldview is a good idea. In short, the only way to tell the difference between a militant atheist and a Dominionist is which creed they intend all of us to adhere to. For our own good, of course.
harumi From: [info]harumi Date: June 16th, 2007 04:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Could you give examples of atheists using the government to try to enforce their world views? Thank you.
rechan From: [info]rechan Date: June 16th, 2007 06:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sueing to have "God we Trust" off the money, "Under God" from the pledge.

I'm not saying I disagree with that, but it's using the legal system to try and stop the use of God all ready in place, as opposed to using the legal system to push God (ala Ten Commandments in courthouse).
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roseross From: [info]roseross Date: June 17th, 2007 02:43 am (UTC) (Link)
Can't count the number of times I've heard militant atheists long for religion to be made illegal. After all, from their point of view, spiritual beliefs are all childish delusions and it would be doing a favor to take the purple unicorns away from the silly people who have not reached the lofty state of atheism on their own. They seem to have no idea why any of that would be insulting to others, or perhaps they just don't care since the insulted folks are just braindead religious folks in the first place.
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bobdole From: [info]bobdole Date: June 16th, 2007 04:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
Militant atheists are the only group other than the Dominionists who scare me because they are so intolerant of others' spiritual beliefs.

The only other group? So militant atheists scare you in this regard but militant Muslims, for example, do not?


They often feel using the government to enforce their worldview is a good idea.

Can you give specific examples of this? I haven't heard of atheists agitating for anything other than separation of church and state, but if they are, I'd like to learn about it.
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star_cabaret From: [info]star_cabaret Date: June 16th, 2007 05:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Militant atheists are intolerant of ALL unfounded spiritual beliefs. They insult people who compartmentalize their ability to reason. They realize that not everyone will believe what they believe, but they hope many people will wake up, because they (atheists) are the only ones who have it consistently right. You really need to back up a claim like "They often feel using the government to enforce their worldview is a good idea," especially in a community about Christians doing that. And last, atheism doesn't have creeds.
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theonides From: [info]theonides Date: June 16th, 2007 05:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Challenging someone to THINK about what they believe and why they believe it is NOT intolerance.
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pdx42 From: [info]pdx42 Date: June 18th, 2007 11:48 pm (UTC) (Link)

"Militant Atheist"?

You make it sound like there is an atheist inquisition going on. When was the last time an atheist made any effort to harm someone in an effort to get them to give up religion?
chipmunk_planet From: [info]chipmunk_planet Date: June 16th, 2007 04:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Freedom of religion means freedom not to have a religion. (although a lot of 'atheists' have deep faith in things like the scientific method)

I dislike labels and categories when it comes to this stuff. I'm not sure how they did their studies but while reading that I wondered what pigeonhole I would get stuffed into: I believe deeply in Jesus Christ, yet I don't enter a special building on Sundays or belong to what Americans call a "church". I pray much more often than every day (but not down on my knees or using a blanket, beads or any of that). I've read the Bible probably twenty times front to back, and have studied it for decades. I believe God actively cares about us individually and directs each of our paths for our greatest personal inner growth (NOT for our greatest personal luxury and comfort!)

I also have an advanced scientific degree and have serious scientific reservations about macroevolution and the use of humans for experimentation (aka embryonic stem cell research). I don't see the Bible as a science book but it does have some interesting observations in that realm. I detest the whole dumbing down of science and math curriculums for social/religious agendas (sports being one of the biggest ones).

I would bitterly resent being called a "secular-minded believer" with the definition above.
I am speaking first about many millions of Americans who nominally belong to a religion but effectively live without any active relationship either to it or to God, or belong to a church and attend services but are "tacit atheists," living day in and day out with only token reference to God.

Because I don't show outward reference to God, now I'm an atheist? I find that dismissive and insulting. The writer either knows nothing about belief or is very superficial in his definitions.

I'm glad he feels atheists can now go "yay me", but this article is not complementary at all to people who might be on their side philosophically yet hold non-traditional (aka non-twisted Americanized pseudo-Christianity) outward forms of belief.
elfwreck From: [info]elfwreck Date: June 16th, 2007 04:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think you fall into that category of "secular-minded believer."

The definition includes people who have no active relationship with their religion or God, not people who don't inflict that relationship on random strangers. It includes church-goers who ignore the tenets of their faith the rest of the week, not people who worship in private in their own way.
bobdole From: [info]bobdole Date: June 16th, 2007 04:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
a lot of 'atheists' have deep faith in things like the scientific method

How do you define 'faith'?
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mmoneurere From: [info]mmoneurere Date: June 16th, 2007 05:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm not sure that the "secular" in "secular-minded believer" necessarily refers to personal outlook so much as to attitude towards politics. Yes, the barely-believers are mentioned as part of that category, but so are "the many believers who accept the principle of America as a secular society". On most chartings of the "believer/nonbeliever line" I'd probably be on the "beliver" side, but I'm pretty well devoted to church/state separation and secular public policy; I expect most religious members of this community would feel the same.
shapeshft From: [info]shapeshft Date: June 16th, 2007 08:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
although a lot of 'atheists' have deep faith in things like the scientific method

The scientific method is a method or a process, not a belief or an article of faith.

The reason that many atheists trust the scientific method is that this process WORKS! If at any point this process didn't work, they would question it. That's the nature of science and rationality.

They don't blindly "have deep faith" in it as you claim.
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star_cabaret From: [info]star_cabaret Date: June 16th, 2007 05:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm no big fan of the paragraph about education and religious belief because, to me, even though it may be true, it's almost an attack on the intelligence of people who believe in religion.

The author confuses people's desire for secularism with people's waning belief in religion and its gods, which leaves out a huge gradient between belief and unbelief. His statement: "Living without God means turning toward something. To flourish we need coherent secular popular philosophies that effectively answer life's vital questions," is completely off-base. It's of the same vein of arguments as "without God, there is no morality."

I think the coalition of believers and unbelievers will work just about the same way as this community: usually well, but the people in the middle (can be) distrustful of either extreme.
theonides From: [info]theonides Date: June 16th, 2007 05:51 pm (UTC) (Link)
Education and intelligence are only loosely correlated.
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From: [info]amyheartssiroc Date: June 16th, 2007 07:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree. When adherents of any religion or belief system attack others for their beliefs, it just makes them less likely to gain respect.
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lihan161051 From: [info]lihan161051 Date: June 16th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
This was what jumped right out at me:

As Susan Jacoby pointed out in her book Freethinkers, it is symptomatic of the situation that the most dramatic presidential address in generations took place in the National Cathedral three days after September 11, 2001, so filled with religious language that it sounded like a sermon. It was delivered by a President flanked by Jewish, Muslim and Christian representatives, a model of religious inclusiveness, without anyone standing alongside them representing the tens of millions of nonreligious Americans. At this most important collective moment in our recent history, it was as if they did not exist. This is what the polls are telling us: Virtually everyone in America believes in God.


I clearly remember the days after 9/11/01, and the presidential address referred to in this quote. I remember being outraged, even at the time, at the overtly religious tone of virtually everything said or done publicly about the attacks immediately after they happened, as well as painfully aware that as someone completely outside the Judeo-Christian system, I was marking myself for possible backlash and reprisals if I said anything publicly about that outrage at the time, and decided then that I'd be safer if I waited for that "Christian America" mood to settle down. (I've been waiting ever since, and the only real change is that I've now run out of patience.)

It all comes down to that message that "Virtually everyone in America believes in God". Say it however you like, put whatever spin on it you want, the upshot is that the majority of people in this country believe, and to some extent or other have been taught to believe, that with a few notable exceptions, almost everyone in this country believes in God, either in a Christian or Jewish context. And that belief is held by a lot of journalists and producers and executives of major media outlets, and unconsciously (and sometimes consciously) promoted in subtle ways, mostly in terms of deciding what's news and what isn't, and what the "popular" perspective on that news is (or, in some cases, what it *should* be), and because most of us gain most if not all of our understanding of the world beyond our own immediate neighborhood through the media, those decisions shape our very understanding of what's going on and promote either their own prejudices about "the way it is", or deliberately twist reality to suit their own agendas.

The fact is, those of us who don't subscribe to the Judeo-Christian religious system have been comparing notes and putting two and two together and realizing there are a lot more of us out there than these "authorities" would ever admit, and while the real numbers are anyone's guess thanks to the prejudiced and unflattering coverage of us in the media (what coverage there is, goddess knows a lot of the good news about people like me never makes the cut!), and thanks to this misleading image of us as a few marginal nutjobs who are out to wipe out Christianity, a lot of us stay underground and try to stay out of the spotlight as much as possible. (And the consequences of being publicly atheist, or agnostic, or even spiritual-but-non-Christian, for those of us who stick our necks out, are often drastic, including losing jobs and custody of children and sometimes even being thrown in jail for whatever the police can find on us, or in some cases even thrown in jail for charges that are completely fabricated. It happens. And it almost never makes the news when it does.)

What I read in that article is that there are a lot of other non-Judeo-Christian Americans who have reached the same point of having exhausted our patience with trying to keep the peace and are now coming out as openly pissed off about the status quo. And I have to say, damn right, I'm one of them. I've spent most of my life keeping quiet about my own right to believe in whatever the hell best fits my own understanding of my life and the world I, and my equal right not to believe in anything religious at all if that's the best path for me, and I'm tired of keeping quiet. And I'm glad I'm not the only one ..
shapeshft From: [info]shapeshft Date: June 16th, 2007 08:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
there are a lot of other non-Judeo-Christian Americans who have reached the same point of having exhausted our patience with trying to keep the peace and are now coming out as openly pissed off about the status quo.

... or perhaps not overtly "pissed off," but just wanting to stand up and be counted. And you're right that it's more than just atheists and agnostics in this category.

I've been reading an interesting book lately which makes the point that within most forms of religious studies, nearly all authors make the assumption that the most "reasonable worldviews", and the most prevalent, are either some form of monotheism (Judaism, Christianity, or Islam) or atheism. Even "militant atheist" books arguing against religious belief assume that "believers" are monotheists. Polytheistic worldviews are largely dismissed as primitive and backward, because "Who believes in Zeus anymore?" Well, it turns out that a growing number of well-educated modern people do, and the book makes a good case that it's time for these views to be given consideration.

I am hoping that eventually enough people of these many non-monotheistic persuasions will enter this cultural dialogue and disabuse people of the notion that America consists only of a monotheist majority in opposition to an atheistic "secular humanist" minority.
(no subject) - [info]theonides Expand
bakashoujiki From: [info]bakashoujiki Date: June 17th, 2007 12:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
(And the consequences of being publicly atheist, or agnostic, or even spiritual-but-non-Christian, for those of us who stick our necks out, are often drastic, including losing jobs and custody of children and sometimes even being thrown in jail for whatever the police can find on us, or in some cases even thrown in jail for charges that are completely fabricated. It happens. And it almost never makes the news when it does.)

Perhaps because these things never make the news, I've never really learned or read anything about these forms of discrimination. Do you know any websites where I could go for more information on this type of discrimination, specifically against atheists and agnostics, within America?
swisscelt From: [info]swisscelt Date: June 16th, 2007 10:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's fascinating to me how, when atheists are rebuked for challenging religious ideas, the counter-rebuke inevitably invokes Christianity or at least some Abrahamic religion. What about those of us who are neither atheists nor Abrahamicists? Do we not matter in the secular world?
star_cabaret From: [info]star_cabaret Date: June 16th, 2007 11:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Awww. Middle child syndrome.
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(no subject) - [info]swisscelt