A THINKER OF DEEP AND PROFOUND THOUGHTS ([info]tulleskirt) wrote in [info]d_princesses,
@ 2007-11-24 23:53:00
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Current mood:awake

I'm a ranter by nature, and when I saw this article...I knew I'd have to vent somewhere. And where better than here, a Princess community?

Mmmk, background. I was surfing the net and found an article by Peggy Orenstein on the Disney Princess line and how it's omgsobadforgirls. Click. And just. GRRRRRRRRRRR. My (extensive) thoughts are behind the cut---I really want to hear what you guys think of it as well. But seriously--I wrote A LOT on this article, so beware. Not exagerrating--a lot. If you want to skip it and just comment, cool. Give me your opinions!

Mary Drolet, a Chicago-area mother and former Claire's and Montgomery Ward executive, opened Club Libby Lu, now a chain of mall stores based largely in the suburbs in which girls ages 4 to 12 can shop for "Princess Phones" covered in faux fur and attend "Princess-Makeover Birthday Parties." 

Club Libby Lu, I'll admit, does bother me to some extent, but generally because little girls go there to play Lolita in body glitter and spandex tube tops. 

I watch my fellow mothers, women who once swore they'd never be dependent on a man, smile indulgently at daughters who warble "So This Is Love" or insist on being called Snow White. I wonder if they'd concede so readily to sons who begged for combat fatigues and mock AK-47s.

You know, my grandmother forbade my father from playing with guns. It was the same old rhetoric--"it promotes violence, it's corrupting the culture," etc etc--what you hear flung at Halo 3 and the like. My dad? Is now a historian specializing in the history of weaponry. Huh. 

On the other hand, maybe I'm still surfing a washed-out second wave of feminism in a third-wave world. Maybe princesses are in fact a sign of progress, an indication that girls can embrace their predilection for pink without compromising strength or ambition; that, at long last, they can "have it all." Or maybe it is even less complex than that: to mangle Freud, maybe a princess is sometimes just a princess. And, as my daughter wants to know, what's wrong with that?

You know what I hate about this paragraph? She's just saying it to appease people like me and then step on our faces with a turnaround--"but that's not REALLY it, our culture is still awful and patriarchal and hasn't progressed at all from 1946!" I mean....Jesus H. Christ. I'm 17 years old and I've just never really known a world without Grrrrl Power. Ariel was never far from my VHS drive, I was Jasmine for Halloween in '96, my bedroom was painted lavender and you know what? I want to be a politician. I hate hate HATE when feminists like this bitch and moan because they're stuck on the idea that we haven't moved forward at all--it gives us all a bad name, and furthermore, how much freaking energy does it take to be offended like that all the time? What if girls today CAN have it all? I babysit a lot of little girls with princess posters on their walls, girls that are WELL AWARE of the fact that they don't have to become Susie Homemaker, waiting for their man to come home so they can fetch him his slippers and pipe. I mean, doesn't the fact that the foremost candidate for president is a woman mean ANYTHING? The fact that girls are going to college more than boys now? For god's sake, it's all around! My little sister Abby (who is 5) has Jasmine and Esmeralda grinning from her comforter, nightlight and pajamas and still, apparently miraculously, she loves dogs, getting dirty and kicking preschool ass in soccer. The world IS a less patriarchal place!

Mooney picked a mix of old and new heroines to wear the Pantone pink No. 241 corona: Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan and Pocahontas.

Only one of those princesses wears pink (consistently).

To ensure the sanctity of what Mooney called their individual "mythologies," the princesses never make eye contact when they're grouped: each stares off in a slightly different direction as if unaware of the others' presence.

Just thought I'd note that--it's interesting, if a bit creepy. I kind of wanted the princesses to be friends when I was a kid, honestly.

Likewise, Mulan and Pocahontas, arguably the most resourceful of the bunch, are rarely depicted on Princess merchandise, though for a different reason. Their rustic garb has less bling potential than that of old-school heroines like Sleeping Beauty. 

I don't know, I've been really pleased with the fact that Mulan and Poca are showing up a lot more. The little sis spotted a Mulan section in Target the other day with more than a few toys (ahhh, did my heart good). And beyond that...I mean, Jasmine is marketed pretty consistently and she wears pants. Pocahontas you could make the "rustic" argument for, but I think Mulan is pretty much on the level of the Jasmine and Ariel--her outfits are pretty AND exotic.

(When Mulan does appear, she is typically in the kimonolike hanfu, which makes her miserable in the movie, rather than her liberated warrior's gear.)

Eh, I see that stock art of her in the green outfit with the cricket cage fairly often. Plus, a little digging on eBay turned up, yes, a warrior Mulan doll--Secret Hero Mulan!

Every reporter Mooney talks to asks some version of my next question: Aren't the Princesses, who are interested only in clothes, jewelry and cadging the handsome prince, somewhat retrograde role models?

Y helo thar, bad research! You know, kids aren't stupid. Just because Kid A plays with Belle in her sparkly gold ballgown doesn't mean she forgets that Belle is a lit nerd in the movie. They don't forget that Mulan pretty much, uh saved a country. They don't forget that Jasmine rolled her eyes at, ahem, "cadging the handsome prince" and demanded to be treated like more than a decorative sylph. I mean, if she really thinks that the Princesses are just silly little girly-girls that do their nails and daydream about boys then she simply isn't paying attention. I loved Belle because Belle loved to read, like me. This knowledge didn't evaporate when she stepped onto the ballroom floor in that now-iconic scene in the movie--she could be, you know, more than an archetype in my eyes.

And for god's sake, did anymore see that Enchanted Tales video? What's Jasmine's story about, huh? I mean, the girl literally sings about being able to "find a cure," "help the war," wanting being a diplomat, knowing several languages and a general frustration at the system that's forcing her into the role of Pretty Little Princess. Or--spoiler alert, scroll down at your own discretion--





in Enchanted, when Giselle grabs the sword herself and rescues the Divorce Lawyer in Distress? Ding! Liberation! 





Spoilers over!


"Look," he said, "I have friends whose son went through the Power Rangers phase who castigated themselves over what they must've done wrong. Then they talked to other parents whose kids had gone through it. The boy passes through. The girl passes through. I see girls expanding their imagination through visualizing themselves as princesses, and then they pass through that phase and end up becoming lawyers, doctors, mothers or princesses, whatever the case may be."

Hey, gee--exactly what happened to me! I had my princess phase, I still think the line is adorable but I have, in fact, moved on! I know there's more to life than jewelry and boys! I like sports! I played outside! I'm a member of my school's debate team! And I like princess! Astounding! Exclamation points!!!!!

Mooney has a point: There are no studies proving that playing princess directly damages girls' self-esteem or dampens other aspirations.

Huh. But don't let that stop your tirade, Ms Orenstein--please continue.

What's more, the 23 percent decline in girls' participation in sports and other vigorous activity between middle and high school has been linked to their sense that athletics is unfeminine. And in a survey released last October by Girls Inc., school-age girls overwhelmingly reported a paralyzing pressure to be "perfect": not only to get straight A's and be the student-body president, editor of the newspaper and captain of the swim team but also to be "kind and caring," "please everyone, be very thin and dress right." Give those girls a pumpkin and a glass slipper and they'd be in business. 

I'm a senior in one of the most souped-up high schools in my county, the richest in the nation with, widely considered, the best school system. You want to know why girls feel the need to be perfect and captain a gazillion clubs and save the whales and clean up the ozone layer all while mainting their French tips? Hint: it's not princess. If there's a problem with out culture it's the message of GET INTO COLLEGE GET INTO COLLEGE COLLEGE COLLEGE COLLEGE propagated at the upper echelons of the socioeconomic ladder--I've never seen it be a princess thing among my peers. It's a combination of the school's pressure, your family's expectation, and in many cases, cultural aspects. And yeah, it's on the boys too.

And you know, even beyond that, isn't her argument that princesses enforce the Damsel in Distress ideal? If there's a trend of girls feeling the need to succeed in everything, from grades to clubs to, ahem, sports...doesn't that sort of show that girls believe they can do anything, even traditionally unfeminine activities? Elsewhere in the article, Orenstein says that Cinderella "doesn't do anything." Well, okay--clearly that isn't influencing today's school-age girls, despite her assertions that they're brainwashing young female minds...but she makes both points, and they contradict each other...I'm getting tangled up in her arguments here.

Her face is all right," I said, noncommittally, though I'm not thrilled to have my Japanese-Jewish child in thrall to those Aryan features. 

Oh sweet Jesus, cry me a river. I'm Cuban-Jewish, have dark eyes, olive skin, a big Esmeralda-esque mess of coarse, curly black hair and yet I never felt ZEE WHITE OPPRESSION from my Princess coloring book. I mean, I'm not going to pretend like racism doesn't exist, but loving Ariel was never a threat to my ethnic identity or anything. You want to know something funny? I wanted the blonde Barbie bar none as a kid, but my little sis has an interesting affinty for...well, the opposite. Her favorite princess is Jasmine, fave Disney girl is Esmeralda, fave prince is Aladdin, thinks Corbin Bleu is really cute, thought Queen Latifah was the prettiest girl in Hairspray, wants the African-American version of the Barbie as the Island Princess doll...noticing a trend? We think it's funny and indulge it--race isn't always a matter of HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED. Sometimes it's just a fluid nonissue. My favorite princesses didn't look anything like me and I turned out okay....same with Abby, though in a different form. X)

(And what the heck are those blue things covering her ears?)

Valid point.

What if, instead of realizing: Aha! Cinderella is a symbol of the patriarchal oppression of all women,

Oh god, yes! Cinderella makes women conform to the Barefoot and Pregnant stereotype! Girls can't possibly love her and still realize they don't have to be A. Secretaries, B. Beauticians or C. Housewives! Perish the thought!

another example of corporate mind control 

It's The Man, man! God, give me a break. To me, it all comes down to parenting. If you throw things you believe promote an unhealthy message to your child without taking them aside for a Sesame Street talk, then hey, blame's on you. I'm not going to act like Snow White goes out and cries I Am Woman, Hear me Roar and I'm not going to pretend that Disney isn't a massive corporation with its fiscal interests foremost in mind. But your kid doesn't HAVE to be a slave to a culture you think is negative if you WORK AGAINST IT. I can shop at Target and Costco and Walmart and still NOT be a capitalist pig or whatever she's assuming because I am, in fact, capable of NOT snatching up every item of a brand just because I like one of their products! God, it's arguments like these I resent because they treat people like childen--it's not your fault you're this way, it's the culture's! No, you know what? I'm an adult who should be held responsible for my own actions. If I'm a consumer whore than it is my OWN fault, not the company that's out to make the buck they should rightfully be able to pursue. GRRRRRAAAARRR.

According to theories of gender constancy, until they're about 6 or 7, children don't realize that the sex they were born with is immutable.

Um, really? I know she'd argue this is just because of my Disney brainwashing, but I don't think I thought I could grow up to be a man beyond the age of 3.

They believe that they have a choice: they can grow up to be either a mommy or a daddy. Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents,

Dude, sometimes it's not stereotypes--without surgery, Little Jimmy really can't grow up to be a mom. Now, if he wants to get the work done then by god I'm all for it, but naturally, yeah, that's more biological fact than stereotype.

Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents, whether it's piling on the most spangles or attacking one another with light sabers. 

Perhaps you could parent and make sure the girl is well aware of her right to lightsaber away, while also being able to prance around in ribbons and tulle! It can be done!

What's more, just because they wear the tulle doesn't mean they've drunk the Kool-Aid. Plenty of girls stray from the script, say, by playing basketball in their finery, or casting themselves as the powerful evil stepsister bossing around the sniveling Cinderella.

YES. I haven't finished the article and I really hope she continues on this thread. Because: YES.

"Playing princess is not the issue," argues Lyn Mikel Brown, an author, with Sharon Lamb, of "Packaging Girlhood: Rescuing Our Daughters From Marketers' Schemes." "The issue is 25,000 Princess products," says Brown, a professor of education and human development at Colby College. "When one thing is so dominant, then it's no longer a choice: it's a mandate, cannibalizing all other forms of play. There's the illusion of more choices out there for girls, but if you look around, you'll see their choices are steadily narrowing."

I don't know, I see plenty of unisex toys out there. Anyone see the Mario Party DS commercials? There are plenty of little girls in those ads, button-mashing away. Is there some law saying she can't play with Legos? Where is the rule that makes the realm of Batman and Hardy Boys and chemistry kits a Y-chromosome-only zone? You can make a case for the marketing of these toys, maybe there needs to be more print ads with little girls making Spider-Man and G.I. Joe battle to the death, but it isn't this dire, inescapable, Big Brother Commands You to Play House situation.

 A year ago, when we shopped for "big girl" bedding at Pottery Barn Kids, we found the "girls" side awash in flowers, hearts and hula dancers; not a soccer player or sailboat in sight. Across the no-fly zone, the "boys" territory was all about sports, trains, planes and automobiles.

Where is the rule preventing you from buying from the boys section? My other little sis Maria, who is 10, just painted her walls lime green and has a blue-and-green bedspread (let it be known that she is also a Hannah Montana and High School Musical devotee). Yes, you can argue that flowers-and-puppies are geared pretty aggressively towards girls, but if you honestly hate it that much, why do you HAVE to give into it? (And besides, I see plenty of neutral options out there...but whatever, sake of argument and all that.)

And you know, I know this isn't a popular argument, but the ideas of  girlhood and boyhood are very sweet in their ways. Take The Dangerous Book for Boys and The Daring Book for Girls. They're pretty much the same, but it acknowledges that girls like to make fortune tellers and boys really don't. Is it hideous that the books segregate the sexes in this way? I don't think so. A world where all toys are unisex seems pretty dreary to me...make sure that boys know they can play with dolls and girls can run the bases as much as they want, but do we have to act like there aren't any differences at all between little boys and girls? As long as 7-year-old Mary knows she can go down to the sandlot and play catcher with the boys as much as she can drool over Sleeping Beauty's ballgown, is it really crushing oppresion to think that the Norman Rockwell-esque idea of the little boy playing baseball is cute?

Easier, that is, unless you want to buy your daughter something that isn't pink. 

Goddammit, let her have her pink phase. The girls that don't like it will let you know--loudly, in the case of a girl I babysit--that they hate pink, and the rest will probably outgrow it. It's around fourth grade, I think, that girls want to be treated as Tweens (or whatever they're called now) and assert that their favorite color is blue or red or whatever.

It wasn't until the mid-1980s, when amplifying age and sex differences became a key strategy of children's marketing 

Um. Really? Is she saying that play kitchens weren't exclusively advertised to girls in the 50's?

That was also the time that the first of the generation raised during the unisex phase of feminism -- ah, hither Marlo! -- became parents. "The kids who grew up in the 1970s wanted sharp definitions for their own kids," Paoletti told me. "I can understand that, because the unisex thing denied everything -- you couldn't be this, you couldn't be that, you had to be a neutral nothing."

Ding ding ding, there's your answer! Let the girls have their glitter, for Christ's sake, the alternative didn't work out that well!

The infatuation with the girlie girl certainly could, at least in part, be a reaction against the so-called second wave of the women's movement of the 1960s and '70s (the first wave was the fight for suffrage), which fought for reproductive rights and economic, social and legal equality.

And the second wave was awesome and totally necessary and I would've been out there marching for my right to not be a secretary if I'd have been around. But there's a limit.

If nothing else, pink and Princess have resuscitated the fantasy of romance that that era of feminism threatened, the privileges that traditional femininity conferred on women despite its costs -- doors magically opened, dinner checks picked up, Manolo Blahniks. Frippery. Fun. 

Or maybe girls have realized they can balance the two now? Don't Hilary Clinton, Condi Rice, Nancy Pelosi, Maggie Thatcher, the woman who just won in Argentina and Segolene Royal mean anything? What about the constant message of "Girl Power!" that permeated the Spice Girls, Destiny's Child, all those bands we worshipped in the nineties? The Cheetah Girls? Title IX? We've made progress, honestly we have! The Blahniked women of Sex and the City were PR experts (Samantha), gallery curators (Charlotte), columnists (Carrie) and Harvard-educated lawyers (Miranda). They balanced! And the show was a massive hit that has spawned a movie!

I mulled that over while flipping through "The Paper Bag Princess," a 1980 picture book hailed as an antidote to Disney. The heroine outwits a dragon who has kidnapped her prince,

CoughcoughEnchantedcoughcough.

but not before the beast's fiery breath frizzles her hair and destroys her dress, forcing her to don a paper bag. The ungrateful prince rejects her, telling her to come back when she is "dressed like a real princess." She dumps him and skips off into the sunset, happily ever after, alone.

But why can't the girl have it all? Why can't she be kickass AND get the guy? Hello, Princess Fiona! Hello, Mulan! Hello Ella-freaking-Enchanted (oh god, Ella was my goddess). You know though, now that I look ahead, Orenstein rejects this idea so cool. I'll drop it.

There has to be a middle ground between compliant and defiant, between petticoats and paper bags.

Lady, maybe we've FOUND that halcyon land of milk, honey and equal wages. Disney Princess and all.

I remembered a video on YouTube, an ad for a Nintendo game called Super Princess Peach. It showed a pack of girls in tiaras, gowns and elbow-length white gloves sliding down a zip line on parasols, navigating an obstacle course of tires in their stilettos, slithering on their bellies under barbed wire, then using their telekinetic powers to make a climbing wall burst into flames. "If you can stand up to really mean people," an announcer intoned, "maybe you have what it takes to be a princess."

EVERYONE SHOULD PLAY SUPER PRINCESS PEACH. I beat it today, it's awesome. And I love that ad.

The princess as superhero is not irrelevant. Some scholars I spoke with say that given its post-9/11 timing, princess mania is a response to a newly dangerous world. 

Princess mania's been around longer than 9/11, yeah. So has "supergirl syndrome." I think it's an issue to be sure--though not an exclusively female one--but I do not, do not find the root in Snow White. At all.

IN THE 1990S, third-wave feminists rebelled against their dour big sisters, "reclaiming" sexual objectification as a woman's right -- provided, of course, that it was on her own terms, that she was the one choosing to strip or wear a shirt that said "Porn Star" or make out with her best friend at a frat-house bash. They embraced words like "bitch" and "slut" as terms of affection and empowerment. That is, when used by the right people, with the right dash of playful irony. But how can you assure that? As Madonna gave way to Britney, whatever self-determination that message contained was watered down and commodified until all that was left was a gaggle of 6-year-old girls in belly-baring T-shirts (which I'm guessing they don't wear as cultural critique). It is no wonder that parents, faced with thongs for 8-year-olds and Bratz dolls' "passion for fashion," fill their daughters' closets with pink sateen; the innocence of Princess feels like a reprieve.

This I agree with--the extremes are pretty icky. I loathe Bratz dolls, they're where I draw the line. Maybe not the ownership of them, but a parent that lets her kid be consumed by the fairytale ideal seems a lot better than the one who gives into the Li'l Stripper.

"But what does that mean?" asks Sharon Lamb, a psychology professor at Saint Michael's College. "There are other ways to express 'innocence' -- girls could play ladybug or caterpillar. What you're really talking about is sexual purity. And there's a trap at the end of that rainbow, because the natural progression from pale, innocent pink is not to other colors. It's to hot, sexy pink -- exactly the kind of sexualization parents are trying to avoid."

Not if you make sure your little girl knows it doesn't have to be this way. Most girls love pink at a certain age, but most girls do not grow up to become party girls, "sluts," what have you.

Walking into one of the newest links in the store's chain, in Natick, Mass., last summer, I had to tip my tiara to the founder, Mary Drolet: Libby Lu's design was flawless. Unlike Disney, Drolet depended on focus groups to choose the logo (a crown-topped heart) and the colors (pink, pink, purple and more pink). The displays were scaled to the size of a 10-year-old, though most of the shoppers I saw were several years younger than that. The decals on the walls and dressing rooms -- "I Love Your Hair," "Hip Chick," "Spoiled" -- were written in "girlfriend language." The young sales clerks at this "special secret club for superfabulous girls" are called "club counselors" and come off like your coolest baby sitter, the one who used to let you brush her hair. The malls themselves are chosen based on a company formula called the G.P.I., or "Girl Power Index," which predicts potential sales revenues. Talk about newspeak: "Girl Power" has gone from a riot grrrrl anthem to "I Am Woman, Watch Me Shop."

This is true--a place like Libby Lu, that enforces nothing BUT the glitter-glitter-squeal image is a tad messed up, to me. That and the kind of parents you see bringing their kid in there--it's not all of them, but it reeks of Jon Benet half the time.

On my way out of the mall, I popped into the " 'tween" mecca Hot Topic, 

Don't know what planet she's living on--Hot Topic is strictly teenage land. Tweens are the set that kiss Zac Efrom pinups, not the ones that ring their eyes in kohl.

To appeal to that older child, Disney executives said, the Fairies will have more "attitude" and "sass" than the Princesses. What, I wondered, did that entail? I'd seen some of the Tinker Bell merchandise that Disney sells at its theme parks: T-shirts reading, "Spoiled to Perfection," "Mood Subject to Change Without Notice" and "Tinker Bell: Prettier Than a Princess." At Hot Topic, that edge was even sharper: magnets, clocks, light-switch plates and panties featured "Dark Tink," described as "the bad girl side of Miss Bell that Walt never saw."

Girl power, indeed.

Plz to be researching. In the Disney Fairies line, Tink is marketed as a "Pots n' Pans Fairy"--that's right, Neverland's own pint-sized mechanic. A number of the characters shun pastels and like to play with animals. Some of them WEAR PANTS! They go on adventures, avert disasters, save chipmunks and then sew themselves a new dress out of rose petals--I know, the 5-year-old loves that stuff. Tink merchandising is definitely skewed towards the Naughty Little Miss angle, but the Disney Fairies line itself is far more innocuous.

A FEW DAYS LATER, I picked my daughter up from preschool. She came tearing over in a full-skirted frock with a gold bodice, a beaded crown perched sideways on her head. "Look, Mommy, I'm Ariel!" she crowed. referring to Disney's Little Mermaid. Then she stopped and furrowed her brow. "Mommy, do you like Ariel?"

Jesus, I just find that sad. That she has to worry about disappointing her mother over something she's so excited about.

I considered her for a moment. Maybe Princess is the first salvo in what will become a lifelong struggle over her body image, a Hundred Years' War of dieting, plucking, painting and perpetual dissatisfaction with the results. Or maybe it isn't.

YES YES LET'S END ON THIS NOTE!

For now, I kneeled down on the floor and gave my daughter a hug.

She smiled happily. "But, Mommy?" she added. "When I grow up, I'm still going to be a fireman."

DING DING DING. See? See, Ms. Orenstein? IT CAN BE DONE!

I'm not sure what to make of this article now. The vast majority of it bemoans how baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad the princesses are, but the conclusion is sort of...divergent? Oh, I don't know. I'm exhausted from writing this thing anyway.


If you actually read all that, holy crap, wow. *golf clap*


Oh, and while looking up things in regards to this article, lookit the cool stuff I found: Awwwww, coooool, and the greatest shirt ever.








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[info]fading_visions
2007-11-25 07:38 am UTC (link)
I skimmed it and when I saw "feminist mother", I threw the entire article out the window. It's from an extremely biased and angry source, so I'm just going to go ahead and ignore everything she says.

But honestly, I *do* think some of the princess stuff is overkill. No, not every little girl wants to be a princess; sometimes they want to be other things and the assumption that they all want to be princesses without a doubt does annoy me.

Just let your kid be what she wants, it's not going to harm her unless you let it. They're young, let them be young.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]princealia
2007-11-25 07:58 am UTC (link)
I agree with this comment. When I worked at Disney World, I strayed away from calling little girls princesses (and even little boys princes) like we were urged to do because not all of them wanted that and I didn't wanna make that assumption.

I met one little girl, maybe around 4-5 years old, wearing a pink shirt, her hair in a pony tail and was as happy as can be...she was the biggest Disney VILLAIN fanatic I had ever seen XD. Her father bought her a towel from the Haunted Mansion that had all the villains on. He laid it out in on the floor and she named every single one, including Chernabog and MCLEACH from the Rescuers Down Under. There are grown Disney fans who have no idea who those individuals are XD. I asked her mother has she always been like this and she said yes because she didn't really care much for the princesses. She'll watch the movies and she loves the characters, but the whole princess power movement wasn't really her thing. It made me wonder if maybe some girls are starting to rebel against that...

I can understand why a lot of little girls want to be princesses...that's all Disney ever really puts out there for them to be nowadays D: That's not a bad thing, it's just...promote them to be something else, too xD

Edited at 2007-11-25 08:03 am UTC

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[info]fading_visions
2007-11-26 02:53 am UTC (link)
And on further consideration, if the mother is going to act this way toward her daughter, it can be EXTREMELY damaging. She needs to stop invalidating her daughter by telling her what she likes is inherently bad and oppressive just because she's a feminist and it goes against her personal beliefs.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]aurorahermione
2007-11-25 07:54 am UTC (link)
Oh god, I hate when people talk down on those of us who like princesses. This chick just doesn't have any imagination. Seriously, I'm a 20 year old junior in a university who's side of the room has probably enough Sleeping Beauty things to open up a Disney Store, but you know what? As much as I dream about my life being a perfect fairy tale, I know it's not. Princesses are a way to escape from the drone of daily life, to imagine that we all have beautiful dresses, handsome princes and really nice castles.

And yes, while I'm a genuine princess fanatic, I also love Star Wars and several animes, most of them shonen (geared towards a male audience). I was one of the best students in my woodshop class in high school. I'm not particularly athletic, but I do dance and a lot of people don't realize how much that takes.

This lady needs to STFU

(Reply to this)


[info]harpie_siren
2007-11-25 08:05 am UTC (link)
Here's something shocking... I adore princesses, and guess what? I hate the color pink, I'm a huge nerd, I love video games, I love sword fights, not to mention my giant obessesion with animation in general. And I certianly don't want to be submissive... and I still adore princesses... It was just one tiny interest among many... That woman needs to get off her high horse and let her kids like princesses... trust me it's harmless

(Reply to this)


[info]softpaw
2007-11-25 08:27 am UTC (link)
OMG..awesome post! you said everything I thought when I read that idiotic article. *massive amounts of applause*


*edit* I am so also adding this to my memories and may link to it in a post later today.

Edited at 2007-11-25 08:30 am UTC

(Reply to this)


[info]princealia
2007-11-25 08:54 am UTC (link)
When I was a little kid, I could care less about being a princess. I didn't wanna be one. I still could care less (why be a princess when I can be the queen? She has more power XD), but I read fairy tales all the time. I watched all these princess movies all the time, and even other fairy tales that didn't have princesses in them. Most of my time was spent watching magical happy things of fluff and yay! And you know what? I came out--dare I say it--ok after watching them all, too. I know what's real and what's not, and all that jazz.

But at the same time, I almost sorta kinda get what she's attempting to say (but she fails at wording it and everything else XD). WE as fans know who these girls are by heart. We know Belle loves books and Ariel loves to sing, but honestly--do you get that vibe from the princess line? I know I don't and I haven't for a while. They're being reduced more and more to the idea of what a princess should be rather than who each one of them are when they are princesses individually. Belle's book has been replaced with a rose and a pocketbook filled with what? Shiny things? Make-up? I don't know. And Ariel flutters around in dresses and obsessive jewelry rather than expressing herself through song. They're being marketed more by what they wear rather than who they are, so naaaaaaturally little girls are going to be more drawn to that. They feel like princesses cause they look like them when no one's telling them there's more to it than that. Shoot, DISNEY isn't even telling them there's more to it than that. The most they give you is "This is ____, she shags ____ and you can get merchandise of her here at ________". I think that's what this mother is afraid of. That's her daughter is gonna indulge herself in that idea of being a princess and completely forget there's a person underneath that ballgown that isn't spitting out fortune cookie lines of dreams, sparkles and love like Disney has been showing us lately. Again, *WE* know these girls aren't like that and I'm sure these little girls have seen the movies enough to seek out some sort of personality from each one of them to have a favorite (cause I know I was able to when I was younger, but the princesses weren't marketed together so there was no need to have a "favorite". I just liked who I liked), but when I see all the princesses together now...a personality from any of them is lost underneath all the obsessive princess glam they've been churning out. I'm getting sick of it D: WHERE are the 6 strong individuals I once watched as a kid. They're being reduced to dribble. If Enchanted Tales wasn't a prime example of that, I don't know what is.

Although, I have to say, I don't see what the difference is between letting a little girl be a princess and freaking out over her wanting to be one, when you give a little boy a cowboy suit or a power ranger outfit and let him be a hero. I don't see anyone being worried about their son growing up to be heroic or wanting to kick ass XD. "Oh noes, not that!!!1" I just think a lot of mothers are stuck on the overall idea of princesses being damsels in distress (when they're not all of the time) and they don't want that for their children, which is understandable, but they should also let them know the overall idea of "needing help" (cause that's all being in distress is) ISN'T a bad thing and ISN'T going to make you a weak, submissive person. Disney isn't a substitute for parenting :P

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[info]alicornmoon
2007-11-25 08:55 am UTC (link)
You know the funny thing is I never wanted to be a disney princess becuase they were princesses to start with :P
I wanted to be Ariel becuase she was a *mermaid*.
I wanted to be Belle becuase she is like me and got to *go on an adventure* and found *true love*.
I wanted to be Jasmine becuase she got to *fly on a magic carpet*, with Aladdan no less, who was a sweetheart.
I wanted to be Pocahontas becuase she got to *run barefoot* and live in a *simple time* when the nature of the US was not ruined and the earth and water were *clean*
I wanted to be Sleeping Beauty so I could *dance with animals*, and I wanted to be Cinderella so I could *talk to them*.
I wanted to be Mulan so I could *be strong but at the same time not lose my sense of self*, and get the handsome guy to boot ;)

So I have never wanted to be them becuase of the princess label, not ever :). To me the label is not as important as who/what they are as characters deep down. They could have been poor (and many of them were to start with) and I still would have liked the movies...

Edited at 2007-11-25 09:00 am UTC

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[info]bellesayuri
2007-11-25 12:51 pm UTC (link)
It seems to me that this woman just wants to micromanage her daughter's life rather than letting her choose for herself who she wants to be.

That is truly anti-princess.





ps great commentary, especially the note about how high-schoolers are feeling the pressure because of college admissions, NOT Disney.

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[info]chichiris_chica
2007-11-25 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Well, I see where she is making the point, but it doesn't necessarily have to do with the Disney Princess line. I'm actually more worried aboput the Bratz dolls, for example. There are girls who are terribly worried with how they look and little else. Of all ages, mind you. Also, considering the whole article, I don't think it's against the Princess line at all. I mean, read. She ends up saying that even though there are many problems in our society that may end up making our girls want to be passive/kind & sweet/submissive... this one is something you should really not worry about.

The difference with the rest of the media is that the figure of the princess is fantasy. You can play princess, and pirate, and evil overlord and whatnot, but in a way you know that when you grow up those things are not your future. Maybe it would be wonderful? Sure, I'll give you that. But the fantasy stage of whatever sort is one you somehow outgrow, which is perfectly normal. Nobody should really be worried about their children 'obsessing' and getting stuck on that phase because the rule is, they play but always keep their feet on the ground.

Now - the 'modern' media and toys may be inflicting this 'physical' importance on girls with many other things. You look at a picture of a supermodel (which is meant to be beautiful) and you may find yourself not thin, or beautiful, or whatever enough. She does make a point in saying that there are many influences which force girls to become something that's been stablished by a patriarchal society, even if now women can basically do everything. I'll agree that if I have a daughter I'm going to be worried if she grows up to be the sort of teen the Bratz seem to be so worried about being, or if she wants to be just like 'the women in the pictures'. But many are intelligent enough to see that an image is - well, nothing more.

The thing is that nowadays you can actually choose, and even if it may seem that the Princess line promotes the wallflower stereotype sometimes, a) when you actually watch the movies you see that's not so, and b)girls are going to be intelligent enough to see what real life means.

(/thoughts on yaoi) XD

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[info]merisua
2007-11-25 02:12 pm UTC (link)
About the only thing you said that I really disagree with is loathing Bratz dolls. I have several that are just as tastefully dressed as Barbie in colors that don't look like cotton candy and clothes that don't all close with velcro; if I had a little girl I would buy her Bratz. I would also keep the wallet closed when she asked if she can have that cute, midriff baring shirt when she's six. If the issue ever comes up of "But my Bratz look good in it!" I will educate my child of the fact that the dolls are indeed depicting older girls and that she can wear them when she grows up, but not now. What I am getting at is that the Princess craze issue and the Bratz issue are equal in that they have the same solution: parenting.

I read your entire post, but cannot bring myself to read the original article. I have always felt that children are smarter than many adults give them credit for. I would rather my daughter (if I ever have one) decide to be a Disney Princess than to spend her days obsessively watching some non-gender specific 'kid-friendly' show that undermines her basic intelligence. (Guh, Boobah? Seriously, what are those things, penis children?) Especially since, as you pointed out, A) many Disney princesses can keep out with and/or trump their princes and B) okay, even if they are completely helpless and neeeed to be saaaved and buy shoooes... it is fiction. I knew the difference, I will teach my children the difference. Is it really so terrible to love Sleeping Beauty for no other reason than because the evil fairy got what was coming to her and the princess woke up to a hot prince? Does enjoying that story and calling yourself a princess even necessarily mean that is the life you hope for? It really, really doesn't.

I wasn't a princess, per se, but I loved some of the movies as a kid, my favorite colors where pink and yellow, I played with Barbie dolls, I still love Precious Moments merchandise and I wanted more than anything to be a fireman... like my dad. He was my hero in my formative years even though Disney regaled me with princess stories, which I genuinely enjoyed. I really don't know why some people like that article's author seem to think a girl just can't have the best of both worlds. Any daughter of mine is welcome to Belle and Legos. Hell, how about Lego puts out a ballroom set, eh? eh?

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[info]tulleskirt
2007-11-25 04:48 pm UTC (link)
Oh, they make good Bratz dolls now? The only ones I've seen are dressed...questionably. XD In that case, I'm with you. I mean, you forbid something and it only creates fascination.

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[info]merisua
2007-11-26 04:04 am UTC (link)
As always, it's a matter of opinion, but I only buy the ones that I think are dressed with a reasonable amount of modesty.

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[info]beruche
2007-11-25 04:18 pm UTC (link)
I think I want a Queen Narissa t-shirt. Something tells me there isn't any merchandise for fangirls of Nathaniel from Enchanted. (To my knowledge, I'm the only one.)
---

Now, to the article. You wrote a lot of things. X-D I read them all. How to respond, how to respond...
Well, by going the vain route, I suppose.

I'm a lot like you. Like you, I'm 17 and have more sense than "concerned" adults who write articles like these. Like you, I totally agree about all the COLLEGE COLLEGE COLLEGE YOU MUST GET INTO COLLEGE hype. It rids people of enjoying their high school years.

Ever seen the series Full House? My own younger sister is addicted to the reruns. I'm like Kimmy Gibbler with a brain, as a lot of my friends say. I honestly didn't care about the YOU MUST GET INTO COLLEGE hype, but guess what? I'm 17 and a freshman at the College of William & Mary now. Geeze.

I'm German, by blood and birth, though I've lived in America since 1994. I grew up loving Cinderella. I wanted to live in the castle. Cinderella's universe felt like home. I also grew up in a household that forbade The Little Mermaid, because my father thought it would encourage his children to want to run away from home. So, of course, I loved The Little Mermaid because it was forbidden. My love of Cinderella led to research of castles and whatnot. I decided I wanted to grow up to run a bacon factory- and my original inspiration was Cinderella. Basically, I decided I wanted to be a modern equivalent of a palace majordomo. My TLM love led me to having lots of pet fish. I still always have at least one pet fish, no matter where I work.

And that's another thing. I've been working my tail off - so to speak - since I was 6. The reason for that has nothing to do with princesses or even poverty, and everything to do with the way I am. I think there must be corporate drive in my DNA.

In 2002, Cinderella II was released and I found my animated self. She even has my name. Prudence, castle majordomo and future grand duchess. Cinderella's universe was now even more of a home to me. I basically am Prudence, only younger and in a modern world. I suppose, in some respects, this likens me to Giselle of Enchanted.

No one has ever accused me of being anti-feministic. Indeed, they've accused me of being just the opposite. In my junior year of high school, a boy was threatening to beat up anyone who voted for me in student office elections. Why? Because girls can't run for treasurer. GIRLS CAN'T DO MATH. -rolls eyes- So I said I'd beat anyone up who listened to him. (Keep in mind, I was only 14. I'm a grade advanced and look older than I am.) Cue bloodbath.

(Cinderella III came out this year. Thank you, Prudence, for allowing me to laugh at my flaws- but honey, you were gipped. You deserved more than two short scenes.)

No worries, I don't go around beating people up on a regular basis. The last time I did that was... the summer of 2006. Ouch. That doesn't sound so good. I have more close male friends than female friends. I was a complete tomboy in my elementary years.

And I have the utmost respect for the princesses.

By the way, if you're curious as to the last princess character I was compared to, it's Sam (played by Jodi Benson- Ariel!) from Enchanted. She and Nathaniel should have ended up together. Because.
The same people that compared me to Sam also said I was way too nice of a person when they saw my Christmas shopping.

"You're way too nice! You're a wonderful person! If a big fat ape in a jungle saved your life, you would send him a package that said, 'To Al, the Big Fat Ape in the Jungle With All My Love. XOXOXOXOX.'"

I said that an ape wouldn't understand what the presents for, and that The Jungle would not be a mailing address. :P
---

We should be friends. X-D

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[info]lightningbeauty
2007-11-25 07:43 pm UTC (link)
I love Nathanial too! He was by far one of my favorite characters!

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My opinion is not very popular, but here goes anyway.
[info]gilyann
2007-11-25 05:33 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for bringing this article to my attention. I find that it is one of the most ill written articles about princess in a while. It is also badly researched, with a series of inaccurate(?) details. There are SO MANY things about this article that bothers me that I don't know where to begin.

To ensure the sanctity of what Mooney called their individual "mythologies," the princesses never make eye contact when they're grouped: each stares off in a slightly different direction as if unaware of the others' presence.

Breathe Gily, breathe. I thought that the reason why aren't they looking at each other was obvious, but apparently not. The princess are suppossed to be in a photo session. In photos do you want your kids looking at other people or looking at the camera? Rack your brains lady is not that hard. If you answer: looking at the camera not only did you answer like what over 95% of people would want, but you also answer something normal.

A group picture won't have people looking at each other, it would have them looking at the camera. Since I like Disney princess and pink perhaps I'm not 'smart enough' to understand what would be the HUGE improvement or change that would come from Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty looking at each other. I need someone to 'illuminate me' on this one. Yeah because it seems that only people who don't wear pink and dress up are smart enough. The rest of us that play into that arena have been consumed by the corporate mind. Sights...

A year ago, when we shopped for "big girl" bedding at Pottery Barn Kids, we found the "girls" side awash in flowers, hearts and hula dancers; not a soccer player or sailboat in sight. Across the no-fly zone, the "boys" territory was all about sports, trains, planes and automobiles.

Err... not really accurate. The pottery Barn section of kids does play into the flowers or sports themes. But they have Hula, circles and lines designs too. They have many bed spreads of quilts and stuff that aren't only flowers prints.

The teen section of P. B. has other designs that aren't that way also. Her lack of research does not constitute a fault on the company or that it doesn't exist. There are many other companies (Domestications comes to mind) that have soccer in green and yellow and even :gasp!: pink!!!

Likewise, Mulan and Pocahontas, arguably the most resourceful of the bunch, are rarely depicted on Princess merchandise, though for a different reason. Their rustic garb has less bling potential than that of old-school heroines like Sleeping Beauty.


(When Mulan does appear, she is typically in the kimonolike hanfu, which makes her miserable in the movie, rather than her liberated warrior's gear.)


This woman has to explain to me (I'm also a mom) if she's the type of mother that just likes to defy common sense. Yes, Mulan does not wear her warrior outfit when she's with the princess. But I bet she didn't even bother to take a good look at that picture.

The picture is supposed to be a photo session of most of the Disney girls. If you go to take the picture with either your family or a group of friends; wouldn't you want to look nice? Isn't a human trait to try and look good? Sweet Lord, it bothers me in so many levels that people just rant about this stuff and then fail to see the obvious. Are this the people the ones that see an event marked as formal and then just go ahead and dress in jeans and snickers? Perhaps it's just me, but I would see it as a dissapointment that Mulan would be the only without looking appropiate for the occasion. What the fuck is wrong with dressing up once in a while!!!???







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2nd part
[info]gilyann
2007-11-25 05:34 pm UTC (link)

What's more, the 23 percent decline in girls' participation in sports and other vigorous activity between middle and high school has been linked to their sense that athletics is unfeminine. And in a survey released last October by Girls Inc., school-age girls overwhelmingly reported a paralyzing pressure to be "perfect": not only to get straight A's and be the student-body president, editor of the newspaper and captain of the swim team but also to be "kind and caring," "please everyone, be very thin and dress right." Give those girls a pumpkin and a glass slipper and they'd be in business.


Someone send me some patience, and fast please! Thank You for stating the obvious to this woman. I don't know about anyone else, but when I got into college no girls from my class got scholarships for the sports they did. Every girl that I knew that got a scholarship, was because of non-sports related activities. Boys on the contrary got scholarships because of sports they played. Some played in the same team and not one girl got a scholarship for sports! Girls have learn to recognized this, and began working towards things that CAN guarantee them an either a good college or a scholarship. I hate that people always try to make everyone else at fault for either their problems or society's fault.


If nothing else, pink and Princess have resuscitated the fantasy of romance that that era of feminism threatened, the privileges that traditional femininity conferred on women despite its costs -- doors magically opened, dinner checks picked up, Manolo Blahniks. Frippery. Fun.

What exactly is wrong with romanticism? Why do feminist feel there is a need to put that down? Why do we need to be tuff and show no feelings in order to be feminist? The last time we went out for dinner I was wearing a pink dress and my husband open doors for me. During the day I had been doing a job that is not very princess like. That day I balance both of those worlds (Like you wonderfully pointed in your reply).

I like a man that is not afraid to show his sensitive side and is galant to me. Call me old fashion but it's nice to know that after a gruesome day at work I can go home and be romanced a little. It makes my life interesting and fun.

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3rd part, because I can't seem to shut up.
[info]gilyann
2007-11-25 05:34 pm UTC (link)

A FEW DAYS LATER, I picked my daughter up from preschool. She came tearing over in a full-skirted frock with a gold bodice, a beaded crown perched sideways on her head. "Look, Mommy, I'm Ariel!" she crowed. referring to Disney's Little Mermaid. Then she stopped and furrowed her brow. "Mommy, do you like Ariel?"

I considered her for a moment. Maybe Princess is the first salvo in what will become a lifelong struggle over her body image, a Hundred Years' War of dieting, plucking, painting and perpetual dissatisfaction with the results. Or maybe it isn't.

For now, I kneeled down on the floor and gave my daughter a hug.

She smiled happily. "But, Mommy?" she added. "When I grow up, I'm still going to be a fireman."


Way to go mom! Show your daughter that she CAN'T be what she wants, show her that only what YOU think it's right is correct. Other wise she may dissapoint you. Forget about what she likes as an individual, because God knows that only the choices you make are the right ones. :Eye roll:

Really why did she had to do this? Her little girl was just exited and she had to go ahead and kill it with her attitude. I hate it when people do this. I hear stuff from parents that raises the hair on the back of my neck. Many parents that do this are the same ones that ask you in what kind of drugs you are in, when you play pretend with their children. Because God forbid that you EVER play around and goof off!

I see this often, and as a mother it has always bother me. Yes, guide your kids but you can't shield them forever and they need to be free to make their own choices. The need to make the choices that are correct FOR THEM, not the ones that are correct FOR YOU. Some parents live vicariously thru their children and that scares me. Mom never was a girly girl, so her daughter can't be one. I admire the woman who never played with dolls but are respectful of what her daughter likes it, and they go ahead and let them play princess, play up with them and even go and see the princess with them enjoy every minute of it. I always want to kiss them and hug them, because so many parents today refuse to let her children be what they enjoy.

I'm now going to proceed to take an ice shower before my blood pressure kills me.

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Re: 3rd part, because I can't seem to shut up.
[info]merisua
2007-11-26 04:24 am UTC (link)
Having had similar done to me (though not nearly as young or in such a disgusting way)I just hope I have the good sense not to turn into this kind of mother. Those "You can't"s don't go away; they fester and grow into a lack of self esteem that swallows a child's opportunities since they already expect to find out they can't. I mean, I know mothers who do this mean well; this woman honestly (albeit stupidly) thinks princess fever could destroy her daughter's self image. My mom thought throwing myself into an art school would prevent me from getting a 'real' job. Both answers were a well meaning "You can't" and the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

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[info]lady_heartilly
2007-11-25 05:45 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I normally just ignore articles like this. I wrote a paper arguing with this type of theory for my Women in Contemporary Society class about a year ago. It's somewhere in the archives on this community.

Basically, adults who haven't seen these movies get the complete wrong idea from the appearance of the merchandise and don't seem to be aware of what their kids are watching. The princesses are strong-willed, hard-working, and follow their dreams. Just because they happen to look pretty and have nice dresses in some of the scenes doesn't mean that they dedicate their lives to looking nice and wearing the most expensive jewels they can find.

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[info]merisua
2007-11-26 04:13 am UTC (link)
You make a great point. And heaven forbid these parents borrow the dvds from one of the dozens of neighbors who must own it so they can watch it first before deciding if it is appropriate for their little girls. Any knowledgeable decision, be it yes or no, is better than a knee-jerk reaction to the merchandise.

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[info]chacusha
2007-11-25 07:47 pm UTC (link)
Kind of repetitive but...

- The main problem I have with this article is that the woman's arguments meander and often contradict each other. She raises alternative explanations for trends, then immediately rejects them in the next sentence without reason (I mean, I guess she's trying to make a point, but she should be taking into account the fact that it might not be as bad as she thinks when she argues).

- But she has some good points. Honestly, when I look at Belle merchandise, I don't really say, "Wow, that's why I love Belle -- she exchanged her life for her father's, is smart, and sees past appearances." I mean, really, I love Belle, but not because she looks gorgeous in her yellow princess gown. I mean, we all remember why we love the Disney princesses, but just looking at the merchandise... the merchandise representation doesn't have anything to do with the movie representation. And I do think that's why Mulan, Jasmine, and Pocahontas don't get the attention they deserve -- they don't have princess ball gowns. I would die out of sheer happiness if they marketed Mulan in her soldier uniform, with short hair. But they don't.

- That said, there is no replacement for good parenting. The media will only mind-control your daughter if you let it do so.

- Also, I don't think it's a bad thing that girls think they have to excel at everything. The girls at my high school were like that. As long as they receive the credit that their intelligence and hard work deserves (which may not be the case in our society :\), it's awesome that they're so ambitious.

- And yeah, the usual trend in movements is initial state -> strong reaction to initial state -> backlash to that reaction. In this case, we start with women taking on domestic and feminine roles, then experience a revolt against that with women striving to be unisex, and then a smaller backlash against that with women trying to reclaim femininity. It's progression, not regression.

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[info]spidey_art
2007-11-26 12:01 am UTC (link)
This was an elaborate an well structured rant. You are so damn right.

"Where is the rule that makes the realm of Batman and Hardy Boys and chemistry kits a Y-chromosome-only zone?"
My favorite part of the rant. Making the connection of the male gender to biology. Who thinks like that!? Brilliant way to put it!

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[info]hallarch
2007-11-26 01:41 am UTC (link)
I read the entire article and your entire rant >.<
I had a lot to say but I killed my brain reading haha...
Summary: Agreed. She needs to stop pushing her ideas on her daughter. I'm waiting for the article in 10ish years that says "What's wrong with my skank daughter?"

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[info]thefemaleknight
2007-11-26 08:09 am UTC (link)
You win.

Just because Kid A plays with Belle in her sparkly gold ballgown doesn't mean she forgets that Belle is a lit nerd in the movie. They don't forget that Mulan pretty much, uh saved a country. They don't forget that Jasmine rolled her eyes at, ahem, "cadging the handsome prince" and demanded to be treated like more than a decorative sylph. I mean, if she really thinks that the Princesses are just silly little girly-girls that do their nails and daydream about boys then she simply isn't paying attention. I loved Belle because Belle loved to read, like me. This knowledge didn't evaporate when she stepped onto the ballroom floor in that now-iconic scene in the movie--she could be, you know, more than an archetype in my eyes.


Bravissima to that, sister.

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[info]s8venus
2007-12-03 07:15 pm UTC (link)
Hmm well the problem is that Disney's movies and Disney's marketing are two very different animals. Unfortunately for both parents and children those two things sometimes contradict one another.


Disney movies, at least everything pre-2000, was well made and almost always socially responsible.

The point is the movies show WHO the Princesses are not what they own or what they look like. The movies always empathizes the princess actions and intents and their general good or generous nature over materialistic themes. The fancy dresses and the good looks really are just besides the point.

Any parent who actually tried to parent would watch them and know this. With out looking for hidden messages, etc. Adults need ot remember that they are seeing things through a less naive, perhaps bitter, adult view point. Okay so Ariel wears a seashell halter top. She's not a slut (which is actually the main thing I hear about Ariel from parents) and your little girls would probably never think that about her even if you as an adult think skimpy tops automatically = slut.

Even if young girls seem more attracted to the dresses and the fluff, that doesn't mean they aren't picking up good life lessons along the way. Dresses are easy to quantify, life-lessons....not so much.

However I can see why ill advised parents come under attack for indulging in the princess franchise because Disney will do anything to turn a quick buck. Sometimes it does seem like they get a little more whorish looking every year. More makeup. Bigger dresses. Etc.

In the end I really do feel that the overall message of the films is worth far more to a child than the potential damage marketing of the franchise might inflict.

In fact I feel that shows like Dora the Explorer do more damage by taking so much conflict out of the shows and focus only on learning. In the My Little Pony movies there aren't dragons and villains any more like we had in the 80's! But oh no! someone burned their friends birthday cake....whatever shall they do?

Look...like all things in life...children need balance and guidance. No TV show will answer all their questions and guide them in a way individual parents/families want them to be.

I grew up on MLP, Disney, and Transformers. Pony Land came under attack sometimes, Princess fought many of their own battles but they were often generous & forgiving as well, and I lived through the swearing (yes, actual swearing)& violence in Transformers. I survived the death of Optimus Prime, Bambi's mother, and Mufasa. I survived the seashell bikini, the Arabian two piece, the makeup, the glorified happy endings. Why? Because my parents were there to explains things I didn't understand so that I took only good lessons from it.

Edited at 2007-12-03 07:16 pm UTC

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