typewriterking ([info]typewriterking) wrote in [info]conservatism,
@ 2008-12-13 21:40:00
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Flashpoint
We'll see what becomes of it, but apparently Governor Palin's church has been torched by one or a group of arsonists.

This brings up a question of how best to organize and protect one's self and others from politically-motivated retribution. The Republican Party originally formed with a militia/paramilitary group, the Wide Awakes, but such things lost popularity  after the decades of vigilance groups terrorizing people. Arming one's self is in the Bill of Rights, and organizing is in the Bill of Rights, and even the word 'militia' is in the Bill of Rights, so the acceptability of such bands seem to date back to the beginning, yet this has been stigmatized out of most circles, anyway (with apology to the late George Carlin for the way I phrased that).

Concealed carry helps, obviously, but permits granted in one state are rarely honored in another, see Plaxico Burress for an example. In the past, I've suggested utilizing HR 218, the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, as a work-around on the issue. In this scheme, a police authority works out a deal with a group (I originally proposed this for professional athletes) so that members will be recognized as reserve officers on a police roster. This will recognize them as LEOs, and allow each member to carry in any state or city.

Would that fly? I don't know, but if you want to make it a part of your platform when running for sherriff, list my screen name as a consultant and go ahead.

And I'd just like to take a moment to grace shown by Sarah Palin by apologizing to her fellow congregation members for possibly drawing a degree of negative attention to the church. If only we all had that spirit...

Take care, everyone.




(85 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]reality_hammer
2008-12-14 07:46 am UTC (link)
I am not surprised this hasn't made headlines. I think we all know what would happen if the situation were reversed politically.

And how long will the MSM insist on referring to Governor Palin as the "failed VP candidate"?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]typewriterking
2008-12-14 08:02 am UTC (link)
And how long will the MSM insist on referring to Governor Palin as the "failed VP candidate"?

I'm thankful to have missed those references. How spiteful and unsportsmanlike.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]typewriterking, 2008-12-14 08:13 am UTC

[info]jennem
2008-12-14 02:55 pm UTC (link)
I am not surprised this hasn't made headlines. I think we all know what would happen if the situation were reversed politically.

Err. Its all over the place. And, it was all over the place last night. At one point in time, it was CNN's featured story.

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(no subject) - [info]melvin_udall, 2008-12-14 04:55 pm UTC
CRY MOAR! - [info]jennem, 2008-12-14 05:31 pm UTC
I expected no different - [info]melvin_udall, 2008-12-14 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jennem, 2008-12-14 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melvin_udall, 2008-12-14 05:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jennem, 2008-12-14 06:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telemann, 2008-12-15 02:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zarq, 2008-12-16 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melvin_udall, 2008-12-16 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zarq, 2008-12-16 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melvin_udall, 2008-12-16 10:56 pm UTC

[info]pepsquad
2008-12-14 07:27 pm UTC (link)
CNN has it here.

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(Deleted post)

[info]leoff
2008-12-14 11:04 am UTC (link)
"No one was smurfily hurt," he said. Are Smurfs on the rampage again?

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(no subject) - [info]bowel_clan, 2008-12-17 12:19 am UTC

[info]throwingstardna
2008-12-14 01:53 pm UTC (link)
Plaxico Burress: Not a poster boy for CCW reciprocity.

Dude was carrying a loaded Glock with a round in the chamber with no holster jammed into the waistband of his sweatpants while drinking. He's not a responsible gun owner victimized by unfair gun laws, he's exactly the kind of person the gun banners think of when they think of gun owners and especially CCW permit holders. Thanks for reinforcing stereotypes, Plaxico. It's hard enough fighting for gun rights in NY without asshats like him making everything worse.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]cumaeansibyl
2008-12-14 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Yep. We wouldn't even be hearing about his permit if he hadn't managed to shoot himself, something which most gun owners are miraculously able to avoid.

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[info]typewriterking
2008-12-15 12:02 am UTC (link)
I have to be contrary on this. Plax isn't a saint, but he's a great example of a fallible human that needs the means to protect himself.

I can't count all the suspensions and firearms violations professional athletes with otherwise spotless records end up with, and for the last too decades, they've suffered through commissioner pledges to crack down, and all the lectures from Sports Center scolds.

When the crackdown is hard enough to change behavior, Sean Taylor is murdered in his home, and Steve Smith is robbed at gunpoint in his front yard.

But in the immediate wake of these incidents, pundits still point fingers at men like Joey Porter and Burress as 'bad boys' of professional football.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]langostino
2008-12-14 04:36 pm UTC (link)
Um, I don't know if you're familiar with the recent history of Africa, or Ireland, or the Middle East (even if you want to stay local there's Kansas and Missouri and, oh yeah, the KKK), but private, politically-affiliated armed groups aren't exactly a stabilising force in a democracy. I'd rather not have an IRA or a Hamas, no matter their political views, in this country.

Remember that crazy Hillary supporter video? Do you really want her having an AR-15?


When the Constitution mentions militias, it mentions 'well-regulated' militias. If in this proposal of yours you're willing to accept significant regulation (e.g. standardised ranks and a clear chain of command, limitations on the number and storage of weapons, rules of engagement, training, . . . ) then I'd be okay with it. But all you're really talking about then is expanding the police force on private nickel, and I doubt you'd be comfortable with such tight regulations.


As for the idea of just deputising everybody with a CCW, are you insane? That's just what we need--a bunch of people who think of themselves as The Law (and who technically are The Law) running around with concealed weapons. Your example of Plaxico Burress is terrifying in that particular context.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]typewriterking
2008-12-15 07:08 am UTC (link)
The problem with citing examples of geopolitical hot points as proof that paramilitary bodies are destabilizing forces makes a presumption about cause and effect that may not be so.

The Sons of Iraq, run by local sheikhs, would be a pure example of a local militia created because no "legitimate" force could protect them from violence. Groups like Los Pepes in Columbia are more controversial groups, from there Lebanese Christian Militia, and so on, including vigilance committees in the Old West. I'd argue that the bulk were created in reaction to attacks no government authorities were available to protect the people. Then there are examples in Sudan, and Warsaw in the forties, where the militias had to form to protect against genocidal national forces.

Remember that crazy Hillary supporter video? Do you really want her having an AR-15?

There are too many. I don't know which you're referencing.

If in this proposal of yours you're willing to accept significant regulation (e.g. standardised ranks and a clear chain of command, limitations on the number and storage of weapons, rules of engagement, training, . . . ) then I'd be okay with it.

That's reassuring, because such State Defense Forces exist in 25 states already.

That's just what we need--a bunch of people who think of themselves as The Law (and who technically are The Law) running around with concealed weapons.

Seems to work in Switzerland, but I didn't go so far as making that proposal. This specific arrangement was aimed toward a more-or-less homogeneous subset of the general population, the criteria being whatever the granting law enforcement body and client group (Footballers for Self-Defense?) agreed to.

Your example of Plaxico Burress is terrifying in that particular context.

I recall a semi-famous video of a DEA officer and gun instructor shooting himself in the leg in a school presentation about gun safety. While it is true that Plaxico was also intoxicated at the time, the difference in judgment and competence between the two anecdotes aren't so wide a gulf.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-16 05:53 am UTC

[info]melvin_udall
2008-12-14 04:47 pm UTC (link)
see Plaxico Burress for an example.

Not helpful.



The first step would be changing people's minds. Help to get them, Christian Republicans especially, to recognize increasingly few care how they are treated. The media will ignore or downplay their mistreatment. That awareness in combination with years of indoctrination from schools and the media that we should have a continued dependence on government for everything, including protection, are what needs to be changed first. As Obama has shown beautifully even when the message is completely empty you can get more done changing people's minds first than dealing with the specifics. Jeanne Assam and New Life Church in Colorado Springs would be a good symbol for all of this.

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[info]watersaredeep
2008-12-14 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Help to get them, Christian Republicans especially, to recognize increasingly few care how they are treated.

I do think they're aware of it for the large part, they just don't know what to do or how to change public perceptions.

Jeanne Assam and New Life Church in Colorado Springs would be a good symbol for all of this.

I agree with this so hard. I remember reading with horror many comments in various places on the net that those Christians deserved it as they made people go off the deep end. I would not have read those sentiments had they been about another group of people.

Sad about Palins church and all the members of that congregation. Regardless of what one may think of her religion or politics, it's still terrorizing a group of people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sashanatasha
2008-12-14 09:47 pm UTC (link)
Maybe it was just God's will.

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[info]typewriterking
2008-12-15 12:07 am UTC (link)
I'm thankful I can live without such spite and hatred in my heart. I get to live without the burden of the vitriol eating me from the inside.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-15 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paraffinman, 2008-12-15 05:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-15 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paraffinman, 2008-12-15 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyne_score, 2008-12-16 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-16 05:42 am UTC

[info]hawkorhandsaw
2008-12-15 02:57 am UTC (link)
The only reason that a church being burnt down is news nationally is because sarah palin is a member. quite a few churches are burnt down every year, and rarely is it national news.(it usually requires a death or two). certainly the two churches that were burnt down in kentucky in the past year or two didn't make national news. i only heard about them from family.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hunterkirk
2008-12-15 06:25 am UTC (link)
Yes there was spree in which atheist youths burned down a number of churches in the mid west last year. But that wasn't a big deal either.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]exiledv2
2008-12-15 04:08 am UTC (link)
Honestly, I'm not surprised one bit. Her pastor is a member of Joel's Army and a heavy confidant of their leader, Todd Bentley. I dunno, but when you get a bunch of Christian dominionists holding rallies and shouting the cause of jihad for the "last generation", you sort of expect this thing to happen to one of their churches. I don't think too many people hold well with calling for revolution.

As for the fire in the church, considering the pastor's ties I would recommend first checking to make sure that the fire was not closed by combustion of explosive flammables being stored by the pastor and his JA buddies.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hunterkirk
2008-12-15 06:07 am UTC (link)
Yeah maybe the same thing will happen to Obama's Church and Rev Wright... oh that would just be wrong wouldn't it be... but this is ok.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-15 04:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-15 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-15 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-15 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-16 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 06:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-16 05:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 06:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-16 05:37 pm UTC

[info]hunterkirk
2008-12-15 06:02 am UTC (link)
Well you not it isn't like Obama's church being firebomb, that would be a hate crime and worthy of countless hours of main stream media coverage.

I still say the left has always been more violent and dangerous then the right.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]montanaisaleg
2008-12-15 08:35 pm UTC (link)
Well, if obama's church were firebombed, it would be a national security threat. That would merit much more MSM coverage.

But I realize that's not your point. Just being nitpicky.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-15 11:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-16 03:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 04:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]langostino, 2008-12-16 05:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jennem, 2008-12-16 04:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-17 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jennem, 2008-12-17 01:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-17 01:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-16 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-17 06:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-17 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-17 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-17 08:59 pm UTC

[info]dyne_score
2008-12-16 05:35 am UTC (link)
Historically speaking, the right has almost always come out in defense of civilization in the face of barbarianism (exemplified by the left). Every civil war can prove this point. The left is trying to destroy the Christian culture of America and sadly enough, it's going unnoticed by many people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 05:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-16 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hunterkirk, 2008-12-16 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-16 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyne_score, 2008-12-17 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exiledv2, 2008-12-17 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-16 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyne_score, 2008-12-17 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-17 02:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyne_score, 2008-12-17 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montanaisaleg, 2008-12-17 02:28 pm UTC

[info]dyne_score
2008-12-16 05:23 am UTC (link)
Wouldn't surprise me if this was done by one of Obama's new socialist, Islamic paramilitaries. Anyone who laughed at us earlier when we told you Obama will turn this country into a totalitarian socialist state should be shaking in their boots right about now. WAKE UP. It's happening now, and this is probably just the beginning of this leftist nightmare.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]d_g_h
2008-12-16 06:15 am UTC (link)
You don't help. At all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]malasadas, 2008-12-16 12:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]d_g_h, 2008-12-16 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dyne_score, 2008-12-17 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]malasadas, 2008-12-17 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]404, 2008-12-16 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]d_g_h, 2008-12-16 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bowel_clan, 2008-12-18 07:18 am UTC

[info]hollywood
2008-12-16 09:19 am UTC (link)
Oh my...

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