conlangs: Seshaa Bases

Elizabeth Barrette (

ysabetwordsmith) wrote in

conlangs,
@ 2008-02-26 02:56:00

Current mood:

tired

Seshaa Bases
I had known for some time that Seshaa had different words for "ten" in different mathematical bases. I foolishly decided to pursue this. I say "foolishly" because my desertfolk are all math mavens, and I am not. Important safety tip for xenolinguistics: just because you don't understand something does not mean that your characters will not try earnestly to explain it to you. At length. Stuffing your head with vocabulary in a manner that resembles trying to cram a 36" couch through a 32" door.

Some base vocabulary:

ar (adjective) – In Whispering Sands use, means “ten.” This is the most general term and refers to base 10. Other bases have their own unique words for “ten” and each word applies only to that base: ark (“base-2 ten”), art (“base-3 ten”), arch (“base-4 ten”), arj (“base-5 ten”), arsh (“base-6 ten”), arp (“base-7 ten”), arb (“base-8 ten”), ard (“base-9 ten”), arha (“base-11 ten”), artu (“base-12 ten”), arint ("base-13 ten"), arin (“base-16 ten”), ardi (“base-20 ten”), and aref (“base-60 ten”).

ghade (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “base,” “mathematical base,” or “radix.” The term ghade yokli means “imaginary base,” that is, one based on an imaginary number. The term ghade aaman means “impeccable base,” “Golden Ratio base,” or “phinary.” The term ghade keeshil means “mixed base.”

ghadeneh (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “negative base.”

Some other math vocabulary that came along for the ride:

balar (noun, adjective or adverb) – In WhisperingSands use, means “logarithm” or “logarithmic scale.” It can also mean “rapidly changing” or“climbing fast,” which logarithmic numbers do.

chegi (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “sunflower.”

chegikoy (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “a sunflower-pack” or “Fibonacci sequence,” that is, a set of something following the Fibonacci sequence of numbers.

shiresh (noun, adjective or adverb) – In WhisperingSands use, means “exponential” or “exponential function.” This can also refer to the shape of a curvethat mimics the exponential line.

And I finally know why my desertfolk crack up when Star Wars comes on:

deetu (noun, adjective or adverb) – In Whispering Sands use, means “chatter,” “gossip,” or “small talk.” The phrase artu deetu means “base-12 chatter,” or more colloqiually, “math talk” or “number game,” because base 12 is popular for use in games.

No wonder they didn't want to try explaining that to me earlier...

(Post a new comment)

	cinnamonical 2008-02-26 09:17 am UTC (link)
	Question: Is there a particular explanation behind why your desertfolk are mathemagicians? Because I find that very interesting. (Reply to this)(Thread)

ysabetwordsmith
2008-02-26 06:53 pm UTC (link)

They get it from the land, and from genetics. The land there is literate. It isn't conscious, exactly, the way a person would think of consciousness; but natural patterns often form words. The early writing systems were all based on natural patterns, from the arabesque cursive inspired by sand-swirls to the cuneiform inspired by bird tracks in mud. And the land can count, so there you have it.

Math appears in the games and puzzles of the Whispering Sands. It's in certain types of art and architecture -- think how the Greeks plastered their love of geometry all over everything -- with a sort of Middle Eastern flavor. It's in a lot of the magic, particularly spells but also some of the tricks they can do with innate talents like shielding. For example...

chevretsi (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “pi.” This is a mathematical term. The related term chevretsi yok means “imaginary pi” and this is the number that pi would be if it were a whole number instead of an irrational number.

kure (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “sphere” or “globe” in the mathematical sense. The related term kure yokli means “pseudosphere,” a structure created by taking chevretsi yok (“imaginary pi”) and spinning it. The resulting figure is stronger than a standard egg or sphere, having greater dagit (“capacity to disperse force along a curve”) than a pi-based figure. When used to create a magical shield, this can yield “The Grand Vizier’s Impregnable Egg” which is not only stronger than a pi-based sphere but, as far as anyone knows, literally unbreachable. Now take that figure and turn it inside out, thus creating a kurezis yokli, an imaginary anti-sphere. This figure applies the property of dagit to the interior rather than exterior curve; when cast as a magical shield, it can yield “The Grand Vizier’s Inescapable Egg” which is unbreachable from the inside.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ranka 2008-02-27 03:56 am UTC (link)
	My Kasshi don't have a name for pi. Instead, they have a name for 2pi. Arguably more logical, since pi is defined in terms of the diameter of a circle (circumference/diameter), while radius is used in mathematical formulae. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ysabetwordsmith 2008-02-27 04:15 am UTC (link)
	Cool! Thanks for sharing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cinnamonical 2008-02-27 05:43 am UTC (link)
	This has to be one of the most awesomely awesome things I have ever heard. I look forward to seeing more of this from you! :D (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ysabetwordsmith 2008-02-27 05:48 am UTC (link)
	bow, flourish Happy to be of service! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pne 2008-02-26 02:58 pm UTC (link)
	Is there a particular reason for the sequence -k -t -ch -j -sh -p -b -d -ha -tu -int? For example, do they crop up in other sequential contexts such as alphabetic order or cardinal numerals or something? I'm curious because the sequence -ch -j and then -p -b seems as if voiceless/voiced pairs might often be adjacent, but -t -d aren't anywhere close to one another. (Reply to this)(Thread)

ysabetwordsmith
2008-02-26 06:19 pm UTC (link)

Indeed there is a reason!

These are the numbers from one to ten:

hihd (“one”), ku (“two”), taf (“three”), char (“four”), jan (‘five”), esh (“six”), paf (“seven”), bas (“eight”), doh (“nine”), ar (“ten”)

Usually the name for "ten" in a base is constructed by combining the general word for "ten" (ar) with the first sound in the word for the base's number. So base-2 ten is "ark" from "ar" and "ku."

The higher-numbered bases are named not for individual digits, but for "pack" terms. So "arha" comes from:

hasukoy (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “an eleven-pack” or “a miser’s dozen.” It can also mean, generally, “an incomplete set.”

Notice that there's exactly one exception: arint (base-13 ten). That comes from:

intihatoy (noun) – In Whispering Sands use, means “a thirteen-pack” or “a decadent dozen.” This has implications of going over the top.

Why is the one word that ends in the first two sounds of the base's number before the other word that ends in "in"...? That's the exception to the rule. It was put there, on purpose, by one of the scribes who codified the imperial language from its component parts. There are a bunch of rules that have exactly one conspicuous exception.

One of these days, I'll get my hands on him...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	wow brutal_truth 2008-02-26 03:25 pm UTC (link)
	Every time you make a post I sit here in awe of your work. Your stuff makes me feel very small... Cxiu fojo vi algluas en via jxurnalo enskribigon, mi sidas tien cxi en mirindajxon da vian verkon. Via ajxoj igas mi sentas min malgranda. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: wow

ysabetwordsmith
2008-02-26 06:42 pm UTC (link)

Bear in mind that I've been working with this particular conlang for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years, give or take a few.

What language is the rest of your post, there? And what does it say? I can spot "jxurnalo" (journal?) and "enskribigon" (write?) for instance; there are parts that remind me of Spanish and its relatives, but there's more going on than just that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: wow

james0289
2008-02-26 10:16 pm UTC (link)

It's an Esperanto translation of what he's written earlier.

A more word-for-word translation of it would be:
Each instance [that (which he's missed out)] you at-glue in your journal a-thing-which-is-written.ACC, I sit there proximity in a-wonder-thing of-quantity your work. Your-sg things cause me feel me un-big.

(If it were to undergo a bit of brushing up, it might turn out as:
Ĉiufoje ke vi algluas[/poŝtas] en via ĵurnalo enskribigon, mi sidas ĉi tie [/tie ĉi] en mirindeco de via verko. Viaj umoj sentigas min kvazaŭ mi estas malgrandaĵo.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: wow

brutal_truth
2008-02-27 04:42 pm UTC (link)

;)
I have to learn the darn language before I can "brush up"
I try.
My own conlang is coming along, but I have no where near 20 years on it. I have made and scrapped quite a few in the 10 years that I have been a conlanger. It wasn't until recently that I chose just one to work on. I also haven't the knowledge of linguistics in general to explain my creations very well... I am reading and learning though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: wow ysabetwordsmith 2008-02-27 05:02 pm UTC (link)
	I have various other conlangs besides the big one. I wish I knew more about linguistics, though; in some places with conlangs and other material I'm coming up against the edge of what I know or can learn by myself. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: wow brutal_truth 2008-02-27 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	I seem to be having the exact same problem. I wish I could find a good book that explained linguistics in a simple manner. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ranka
2008-02-27 04:18 am UTC (link)

My Kasshi traditionally used a base-12 system, but they later adopted base-10. Dozenal is still used in some contexts (for example, the minimum income to vote for the Council of Landowners is defined as 1 great gross 6 gross chan/year; i.e., 2,592 in decimal; this works out to the equivalent of roughly $90,000/Earth year), and the numbers 13-19 are based on 12 even in the standard decimal system (thus, one goes from twelve-seven to two-ten).

Their currency remains adamantly non-decimal. 1 chan = 9 vezh = 108 zash (= 1,728 vi originally, but inflation has eliminated the vi; ¼ zash is the smallest coin still used). That is, 1 vezh = 12 zash and 1 zash = 16 vi. Their measuring system remains likewise nondecimal, and not based on a consistent rate, either (except for time, which is mostly consistenly base 60). It is based on physics, though. The present international system uses a basic unit of length that is defined as twice the distance that an object falls in the smallest named unit of time (at sea level at 45 degrees North).

The smallest unit of time ("Interval") is 1/216,000 of their day*, or about .43 of our seconds. The standard unit of length ("fathom") is 165.4 cm or 5'5". Standard gravitational acceleration on their world, in their units, is thus, by definition, 1.000 fathoms/interval² (~8.9 m/s², so a bit lower than Earth's). Of course, as on Earth, the actual gravitational acceleration depends on location. Thus, the weight/mass issue was a lot simpler on their world. Units of mass can be used for force and weight (if necessary, distinguished by prefixing weight- and mass-).

1 day = 12 "hours" = 5 "fifths" = 60 "minutes" (actually, closer to half-minutes) = 60 "intervals". The "fifth" and "minute" are the main units used in telling time. The "fifth" is the standard unit for purposes such as labor laws and stating wages (as well as for television programming) Time zones are based on fifths, so each time zone is a lot narrower than on Earth, averaging only 6 degrees rather than 15 degrees. The "hour" is considered somewhat archaic now.

I haven't worked out the names of their units. http://wiki.frath.net/Odiran_Standard_Units gives the units in English-language equivalents. Units of length were standardized based on traditional body-based units, hence my translations. I'm not sure if the origins remain as obvious in their terminology or not. They may have simply borrowed the Blafu words.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	ysabetwordsmith 2008-02-27 04:34 am UTC (link)
	Complicated, but cool -- thanks for sharing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ranka 2008-02-27 05:15 am UTC (link)
	Thanks. Simple is boring. ;-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

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