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December 23rd, 2009


sdissynthium
03:47 pm - Grammar sketch for a polysynthetic conlang: am I doing this right?
Okay, let me just say a few things.  Although this is not my first attempt at a conlang of any sort (far from it), it is my first time with a polysynthetic language.  I'd, first of all, like to know if everything seems...right and/or makes sense.  Second, and I know this seems out of the blue, but something of key importance is that I need to be able to say, for instance, 'inanimate object-turned-human' or 'human being-turned-abstract concept' with relative ease.

Without further ado, here is what I have so far.  Phonology I will work out soon, after I know that the grammar makes sense.  I have a system of sound symbolism worked out in chart forms, but not an actual inventory of phonemes for the language.

Lots more under the cut... )
Current Mood: [mood icon] curious

(1 comment | Leave a comment)

alishenai
04:47 pm - Na'vi language
The following is a youtube link which looks at the Na'vi language:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZZbTYdPBk#watch-main-area




(Leave a comment)

December 21st, 2009


ozarque
08:52 am - Na'vi language -- partial description...
I don't know what's going on with the links I just posted -- they worked yesterday, but today they return only 404s. However, if you go to Google and type -- "Some highlights of Na'vi" Language Log -- in the search box you can get to the article.

(4 comments | Leave a comment)

ozarque
08:43 am - Na'vi language -- partial description...
Paul Frommer, the prof who constructed the Na'vi language for Avatar, has done a guest post about Na'vi at Language Log. Quite a bit of information, especially about the phonology. The post is at
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/p=1977#more_1977 .

(2 comments | Leave a comment)

December 20th, 2009


fallingupthesky
01:30 am
One of my conlangs (which is as of yet unnamed) is intended to be a special-purpose pidgin which makes use of only a limited array of sounds. Originally it was spelled with only 15 letters (a, e, f, i, j, k, l, n, o, p, r, s, t, u, w). More recently I have considered the use of another 4 with limited frequency (b, c, h, y) for a bit more variety, though some or all may not make the cut. [I also considered, early on, using "h" as a sigh-like pseudovowel, but that might be problematic for some people and violates the semi-Germanic tone I was going for.]

Anyway, I have noticed that all of the words which I have experimented with using fit into just a few fairly complex but very restricted patterns; for example, 'jept' (which I have been using to mean 'gossip') fits perfectly within the "three-consonant" pattern whereas 'apolp' violates it in 3 different ways (the word starts with a vowel, L's never follow vowels, and P is used twice). Note that each pattern does not follow the same set of "rules". And that I didn't create any of those patterns on purpose, or at least not consciously - probably just an overzealous drive to give it a particular flavor.

Read the other 5/8ths of this )

(9 comments | Leave a comment)

December 19th, 2009


lyoshka
08:28 pm
language of the Avatar

(3 comments | Leave a comment)

December 18th, 2009


heronbythesea
01:52 am - How many phonemes are there in the world?
The IPA has only 100 some phonemes, if I understand correctly. But there are clearly more sounds than this in all the spoken languages of the world. One language of Africa has 40+ clicks in it alone. I would be interested to know how many there are total, and I would REALLY be interested in being able to hear them all.

(8 comments | Leave a comment)

December 17th, 2009


ozarque
11:00 am - BBC program on conlangs...
I've just done a thirty-minute interview about LAadan for the BBC, as part of a segment they were doing on conlangs; other guests on the segment included Arika Okrent, author of _In the Land of Invented Languages_, someone talking about Klingon, and perhaps a few more. The interview went very well; however, I have no idea how much of the thirty minutes will actually be used.

The show is called "Word of Mouth", and this episode goes out on 5 January at 16:00 [GMT]; you can also listen again for a week at the Radio 4 website which is www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 .

(2 comments | Leave a comment)

December 16th, 2009


heronbythesea
03:31 pm - Are you fluent in your Conlang?
I hate to keep dominating this board, but no one else seems to post much. ;-)

I was just wondering how many of you are actually fluent in your own conlang. I want to become fluent in mine, which is part of the reason I'm not straying too far from the grammatical structures I'm most familiar with (those of English, Spanish, French and Hebrew). My vocabulary has a few loanwords but mostly I'm making that up on my own. Vocabulary has always been easy for me to learn, but grammar is another story.

Anyway, how did you reach your degree of fluency? I assume it's just like learning any other language. You would think that since a conlang is your own creation, it would be easier to learn, but I'm finding that doesn't really seem to be the case.

(12 comments | Leave a comment)

December 13th, 2009


heronbythesea
04:46 pm - What language is this?
http://www.lycaeum.org/mv/anagrams/PARALINGUA.cgi?article=Jeshap

I have this word in my conlang, jeshap, which means finish or complete. I got curious if perhaps I'd heard that word somewhere before, and typed it in google. This page came up. I'd love to know what language this is!

(5 comments | Leave a comment)

December 11th, 2009


heronbythesea
04:21 pm - Languages without "to be" in the present tense
I know a little Hebrew, and it does not use "is, am, are" in the present tense. I know there are some other languages like that as well. I find that as I'm constructing my own language, Carichendan, I tend to inadvertently not use the word for is (which is simply, "a" and means all 4 of these: be, is, am, are) in many cases. So, for example, to say "How are you" (literally, "what is your blessing?"), you should technically say "tsa aluva shoyal a?"
tsa = what
aluva = your
shoyal = blessing
a = is

But in speech, and in this case, even in writing, I do not use the "a" in this sentence. It's just "Tsa aluva shoyal?" (What your blessing).
But in the answer, "ana shoyal a shale" (my blessing is peace)
ana = my
shale = peace
I tend to want to use the "a." Maybe it just sounds better.

To ask how someone is who has been sick, you say "How are you?" which is "Kangi alu?"
Kangi = how
alu = you

Technically it would be "Kangi alu a?" (how you are?) but I don't say that. Just "Kangi alu?" (how you?)

In these everyday phrases, the "a" tends to get left out, and sometimes even in other sentences. But most of the time, I think I do use it, although it may not be necessary at all. But there is another problem - Carichendan has a lot of words which end in vowels. So you often end up with a doubling (or even tripling) of the a-sound when you use the present tense "to be." So, for example, "Aliya a alin" (life is easy). In speech, that is inevitably going to be condensed to sound like "Aliya'alin. The tripling of the a-sound is rare, but the doubling is quite common.
Aliya = life
Alin = easy

I was thinking about making it a grammar rule that the present tense "to be" is not necessary. But then I think there may be some complications with this.

In Carichendan, the adjective comes after the noun. So "Aliya alin" means "easy life." So how would you distinguish between "easy life" and "life is easy"? In Hebrew, there are some conventions that can help distinguish sometimes, but other times it is ambiguous. Most of the time, context clears it up. But sometimes, it does not. This has in fact caused some multiplicity of possible meanings of certain sentences in the Bible.

In Hebrew, if you want to say "the red book" you say "the book the red," whereas if you want to say "the book is red," you say "the book red." So that extra "the" which gets added to the adjective clears up the meaning. However, there is also no "a, an" in Hebrew, so there is no way to distinguish "a red book" from "a book is red," since you can't say "a book a red." It's just "book red" either way.

I do have a word for "a, an" in Carichendan, but I do not wish to have to do something like this, where you have to add a "the" or "a, an" to the adjective. What other ways could one make it clear? Or am I getting too uptight about this?!

So, should the present tense "to be" stay or go? What do you think?

(15 comments | Leave a comment)

December 10th, 2009


nhpeacenik
07:55 pm - War is Over - Translators Needed
Yoko Ono and friends are collecting versions of John Lennon's famous saying "War is Over! If you want it." at http://www.flickr.com/photos/yokoonoofficial/sets/72157622834909233/.

Conlangs and help with natlangs with odd scripts are particularly in demand :) . Contact admin AT imaginepeace.com is you want to help. I sent in a translation into Ayola:
War Is Over in Ayola
Current Location: Greenville NH USA

(17 comments | Leave a comment)

December 7th, 2009


heronbythesea
02:51 pm - Newbie - So many questions!
Shoyalu (hello - lit. "blessing on you"), I'm "Heron by the Sea" and I'm brand new here. I have been creating my own language, Carichendan, and I thought I was crazy. I had no idea that other people did this! I'm thrilled to discover that I'm not alone, and that this is a legitimate hobby. ;-)

I have only just begun really doing anything significant in the creation of my language. I have had the idea for quite some time, and have had a few words and phrases. But now I'm completely working on it.

I have developed a tentative script. Is there a way to make my own font for this script? I could make it so that the A-sound in my language is covered by the A key and so on, but how would I deal with special characters? There are 31 letters in my language, and in addition, some vowels will need an accent mark in some words. I've been working in Word Perfect, and I have set up macros to deal with accents in the transliteration. So if I want an accent on an A, I just need to hit Ctrl A and it comes up with an accent. For the special letters, I have to use 2 English letters. So for example, Sh, Ch, Eu, Ng, Kh, etc.

I have a few documents in Word Perfect in order to work on my language. One is an English to Carichendan dictionary, another is a Carichendan to English dictionary, one is for grammar, and I also have a .pdf with the alphabet and pronunciation rules. (I also have other documents for info about the Carichendan culture, history and religion).

I have looked at the Language Construction Kit and I feel that I was mostly already doing what it recommends. But I still wonder if maybe there could be something more I can do to avoid any kinds of fundamental errors in creating a new language. I keep tweaking things, and when I do, I have to go back and change some things. Right now, I don't have very many words, but if I get a lot, that could end up being very tedious.

Thanks everyone - and I'm so glad to have found this community!
Current Mood: [mood icon] contemplative

(5 comments | Leave a comment)

December 6th, 2009


saizai
01:27 am - Please review my "Conlanging 101" paper
Here is my paper (pdf) for my talk on "Conlanging 101" at 26C3.

It needs to be turned in for printing by the 7th, so any and all comments appreciated.

Goals )

(13 comments | Leave a comment)

December 2nd, 2009


jfran2258
02:21 pm
Something I don't understand about IPA is why it has a dedicated symbol for a voiced labiodental nasal and not a voiceless nasal, even though there are languages that distinguish voiced and voiceless nasals, but there are no languages that distinguish a bilabial nasal and a labiodental nasal.

(7 comments | Leave a comment)

December 1st, 2009


jimhenry
07:25 pm - Language & Personality Survey
I am posting this on behalf of Mark Henshaw, who posted it to the CONLANG and AUXLANG mailing lists and later asked people to forward it further through the conlanger community. So the deadline for responding is kind of short (4 December); apologies. Please send your responses offlist to Mark at the spam-protected email address below, not to me and not posting them here (or at least, not just posting them here).

On to Mark's actual survey )
Tags:

(Leave a comment)

November 28th, 2009


alishenai
12:38 pm - four-way distinction's
Hi. I've been doing a bit more research into demonstratives and how they became articles so I think I undestand the basic's. However it occured to me that it would be really nice to have a four-way distinction for the demonstratives "this" and "that." For instance I would like to have something like the demonstratives in Northern Sami:

Dát biila
"this car"
Diet biila
"that car (near you)"
Duot biila
"that car (over there, away from both of us but rather near)"
Dot biila
"that car (over there, far away)"
(example from wiki)

So the problem is where would the word "the" originate from if there are three words for "that?"

(10 comments | Leave a comment)

November 26th, 2009


rii_namuras
10:19 pm - Conlangs and Webcomics question
I have a question about the use of a conlang in a webcomic I'm working on.

The Eraminians [or dragons] in this story have their own language, and it is used. While it does have it's own script [which bears a small bit of resemblance to our alphabet - in the story-verse, the Eraminians taught the rest of the people on that continent to read and write] and that could be used since I'm hand-lettering, I'm still not sure whether to use that or just transcribe it into our regular alphabet.

While I realize a separate script would emphasize the alienness of the language, at this point in the story Eraminian is heard through the viewpoint of a group of characters from neighboring nations who have never heard it before and would really have no idea that there even is a separate script, plus because of that they would likely remember it through the lens of their own alphabet.

I was thinking perhaps using our alphabet when the travelers are around, and using its script when it's just Eraminians talking to each other, as that does happen later in the story. But I'm not sure - what do you guys think? What would you prefer to read?

(11 comments | Leave a comment)

November 24th, 2009


fallingupthesky
08:58 am
Two unrelated things I've been wondering recently.

The first isn't directly related to linguistics and requires a bit of setup: A day can be conceptualized as a "sun-cycle" and a month as a "moon-cycle" - in fact, most languages seem to have those words derived as such, if not outright calling a day "sun" or a month "moon". A year could be conceptualized as either an "earth-cycle" (given modern astronomical knowledge) or a "star-cycle" (since some late stone-age or early bronze-age societies measured a year by the position of a particular star, most often Sirius, at a particular time of night). Is there any other meaningful way that either "earth-cycle" or "star-cycle" could apply as a time measurement, just so a language could use both terms to mean different things?

Second, is there any good reason why no language has ever developed its written form as a "reverse abjad"? You know, base symbols are vowels and maybe some dipthongs, probably also with a null vowel placeholder for words that start or end with a consonant and/or optional consonant marks?

(25 comments | Leave a comment)

argylegasm
12:23 am - Twitter
I'm now Tweeting in my conlang, Dod

Click HERE to follow. =]

Here's some basic info on Dod:

It's an a priori language that is mainly VSO - it has its own script but can be written perfectly well in the Latin alphabet. The grammar is basically complete, the only thing lacking is lexicon, which I work on pretty much daily. Dod has a nice derivational system that allows me to create new words without too many worries; it also compounds pretty readily, though compounding itself is a bit random (alfodióras [consonant] is literally 'letter-of-body', while natiínsistem [phonology] is 'sound-system', so basically sometimes you just tack nouns together and other times you make a fake genitive constuction).

I haven't quite figured out how to share the grammar and lexicon of Dod yet - it's all on GoogleDocs, so I may just give viewing access to those who want it, but til then, enjoy the tweets - or the tuíit, as said in Dod. =]

(3 comments | Leave a comment)

November 21st, 2009


alishenai
12:22 pm - Old English
Does anyone know some good sites which explain the use of Old English demonstrative pronouns and how they became articles? What I need is some sentence examples in Old English translated into modern English. Thanks in advance.
Current Mood: [mood icon] curious

(5 comments | Leave a comment)

November 19th, 2009


arimah
06:38 pm - IPA Helper

I’ve spoken to a great many conlangers about all things language-related, and it seems a major headache for most of them – myself included – is this lovely little thing commonly known as the IPA.

As wonderful and useful as it may be, it relies a lot on obscure characters hiding in a corner somewhere in Unicode. Most people cannot input these characters with their regular keyboard layout, and in many cases, one has to resort to a game of hide-and-seek with charmap. Even worse, still, is when IPA characters are needed on a website which may not use a sensible Unicode encoding for its text, and you have to use HTML entities instead – ː and so on.

As a solution – hopefully – to these issues, I present a very simple little thing I spent a little while implementing:

My IPA Helper.

This thing should make it at least a little bit easier to input IPA characters for those of you who aren’t using a custom keyboard layout. Simply click on an IPA character or symbol in any one of the tables, and it’ll be added to the plain-text and HTML text boxes.

If there is anything missing or if something appears broken in your browser, please let me know either by commenting below, or by using the contact form on my new and unfinished website prototype (which has numerous dead links).

I hope this might be of use to some of you out there; it’s already proven useful to me!

The IPA Helper is distributed under the Creative Commons Non-Commercial licence, which means you can do whatever you want with it as long as you don’t try to sell it. Everything needed for the IPA Helper to work is contained within that one file; feel free to save it and use it locally. Also note that you’ll need a Unicode-compatible browser with IPA fonts installed to actually see the IPA.


Current Mood: [mood icon] creative

(15 comments | Leave a comment)

fallingupthesky
12:10 am
I found this mostly by accident a few months ago. I don't have any conlangs yet - okay, I have two, but they're a long way from finished - but I felt like sharing a personal story involving this subject in case it might be of interest to those who regularly read and/or post here. (If it's not appropriate, I apologize.)

In the mid-1980s, when I was still a child, I became semi-obsessed with creating a universal international language. I knew nothing of linguistics, and decided that the best way to do this was to learn at least a little of as many languages as possible. The local library had dictionaries for French, German, Chinese, and Italian, and a few books on Egyptian Hieroglyphics, but that's all. I was also aware of a lot of Greek and Latin roots in English and what they meant. Those things alone didn't seem to be nearly enough, so I eventually abandoned it.

Later on I became aware of Esperanto. And rejected it. It was too obviously latin-based, not globally inclusive enough, and didn't sound like a natural language.


(14 comments | Leave a comment)

November 15th, 2009


saizai
12:38 pm - 26C3 / visiting Europe
So, I submitted a talk to 26C3 on "Conlanging 101". And it actually got accepted (with flight paid!).

Which means I get to go to Berlin and attend an awesome hacker conference, and all I have to do is give a talk I'll enjoy. W00tage.

The talk is a) an intro / overview to conlanging (like an expanded version of my lightning talk at Toorcamp - http://conlang.org/toorcamp.pdf) plus b) conlanging-by-crowd-committee where I'll (albeit very quickly) go through actually making a new language on the spot good enough to translate part of the Babel text (like a super-compressed version of my Berkeley DE-Cal class). Plus workshop afterwards.

Most likely what I'm going to do is spend ~10 minutes giving a fairly fast-paced overview, ~35-40 going through making a language on the spot, and anything left over on Q&A.

Anywho:
a) got ideas for how to improve the talk / workshop? (German speakers: anything I should be aware of, or any good jokes to make? Ich spreche keine Deutsch. :()
b) anyone else going?
c) anyone in the area (even vaguely, as in Western Europe; I'm somewhat tempted to make it an excuse to visit other places in Europe) who's either interested having a visitor or willing to host me for a couple days? (if yes, please email me directly)

(2 comments | Leave a comment)

November 14th, 2009


vaxjedi
11:01 am - Waving the secret vice
If you are in Google Wave, someone has started a collaborative conlang project in there:
https://wave.google.com/wave/#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252B5TBtlj0WD

They are going for more of an auxlang approach. I've been piping in, but I figured it might be fun if more people were churning away at it :)

(Leave a comment)

November 13th, 2009


yuri93
10:14 am
This question's possibly a little technical, and maybe belongs on [info]linguaphiles or something like that, but it is related to a conlang I'm putting together, so I hope you'll bear with me!

Right now I'm building a conlang that's basically the love-child of Tibetan and Nepali for a pseudo-Tibetan society in some fic I'm writing. Tibetan's agglutinative (and Nepali is mixed agglutinative and inflective) so my morphology for this project is agglutinative. The problem is I'm not sure where to go from there.

I've studied Japanese, which is heavily agglutinative and primarily uses mostly suffixes with a handful of prefixes (like o- for formality). I've also taken a stab at Coptic, which, if memory serves, has prefixes (though I don't remember if it's agglutinative). Cue confused linguistics student.

I've also got a whole lot of different classes of affixes going on. I've never actually taken morphology so I'm not clear on the exact terminology here, but my conlang thus far features several different classes of morphemes that can be appended to verbs, including person, tense, formality, and various other factors (was it personally witnessed? Is the speaker voicing an opinion? etc). Some of the latter class of affixes are also functioning like free-morpheme copulas in some simpler sentences--this might be a problem. Mostly, though, I'm worried that this is getting maybe a little too complicated, and I'm having trouble figuring out what orders to put these suffixes in, when I'm merrily adding three or more bound morphemes to a verb.

I'm concerned particularly with verbs in my three main questions:

1) How typologically rare are languages (like Coptic) that conjugate by adding prefixes rather than adding suffixes? (In other words, is this implausible in a real-world language?)
2) How about using both prefixes and suffixes to form verbs? Is this implausible in a real-world language?
3) Could you give me some examples of how, in heavily agglutinative languages, prefixes and suffixes are ordered? If you've made a heavily agglutinative language, how did you handle this? (I could just look up how Tibetan and Nepali do it, but that's proving a little difficult to dig up, and I'd really rather deviate somehow from the source material...)

Thank you in advance!

(14 comments | Leave a comment)

November 11th, 2009


clydepr
09:17 pm - Im working on a conlang...
anyone know of any good logical ways to create new words? Not talking about just a word generator, but some logical ways of combining suffixes, prefixes and infixes, etc to formulate a system for creating all words.  Not sure if there are any tried and true methods here.

(3 comments | Leave a comment)

November 9th, 2009


andriard
06:41 pm - spanish verbs
i was lurking through a book shelf , when i found a spanish grammar book. it's the better one i've seen.  i havne't studied spanish a lot, as it is my native language but sometimes i've done some research specially on reflexives.
 i was looking at the verb section and said,  " holy ***" so many verb forms! i was counted in total 22 posible conjugations.  the book said  " verbs in english might have at least 20 possible forms counting person. spanish verbs have 102 possible conjugations."  there are some conjugations that i rarely use like (yo hubiere cantado).
 
normally in a conlang i put past, present, future not perfect and  one subjunctive.
maybe next time i'll try all of them
Current Mood: [mood icon] shocked

(6 comments | Leave a comment)

November 5th, 2009


jfran2258
05:19 pm - voiceless nasals and other unusual sounds
Is there a recording on the internet contrasting voiced and unvoiced nasals? I haven't been able to find any. Are there any contrasting voiced and voiceless /r/ or /l/? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

(12 comments | Leave a comment)

November 3rd, 2009


ysabetwordsmith
06:05 pm - Bilingual Science Fiction Poem
I'm holding a poetry fishbowl today, with a theme of "languages and ways of writing." I've already posted the freebie poem, "Space Flight" which is bilingual in Lâadan and English.
Current Mood: [mood icon] busy

(2 comments | Leave a comment)

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