Cniglic (Emotional English), a Subset of Lojban

Possessives are useful tools. Though more complicated in Lojban, they should not be so bad in English.

The most basic is [pe]. It says that the, in English, noun (and all of it's adjectives) that it is immediately preceding it is in some way related to the noun (and adjectives) immediately following it. If I say "the house [pe] (of) the dog", it probably means "Bingo's doghouse". But it could mean "The dog lifted its leg up to a tree which was a descendant to another tree that lent its wood to the neighbor's door of my the house that used to belong to my cousin". I could also say "the [pe] (of) the dog, house", which is synonymous to "the house [pe] the dog". I like this one because it seems really unEnglish to me. In Lojban I could also just delete out the [pe] in "the [pe] (of) the dog, house", because in tanru (compound sumti/ ~adjectival nouns) the words on the left somehow modify the word on the right (exactly as [pe] does, actually). It may be helpful to think of [pe] as "...related, somehow/loosely, to..."
*The desk [pe] William = the William [pe] desk = the William desk = William's desk
**It probably does not mean that William owns it (more likely the business William works for does), but means that William sits there and does something to/on it.
*Generally, "of" or "-'s" will work just as well. I would use [pe] in texts similar to the examples about the dog(s) previously stated.

[po] is a more strongly linking possessive. It means that one object is uniquely possessed by another something (usually). If you bought it, now own it, and can sell it- use this. Once you do sell it, [po] may become [pe], but no matter what [po] can no longer be used. I could say "the desk [po] William" (he owns the desk, maybe it is at his home), but cannot say (usually) "the desk [po] William and JoAnne" ([pe] could be used, however). [joi] (a connective, which are much to complex to get into here and/or now) may be used instead of the "and" in the immediately previous example. [joi] means "and, in a grouping way; with"- so I could say "the desk [po] (uniquely possessed by) William joi (in a group with) JoAnne, when considered together" but then "the desk [po] William" would no longer apply.

The last possessive is [po'e]. This means "inalienably possessed by". It means that no matter what you do, you cannot get rid of it- no matter ow much you may want to do so. You cannot sell, you cannot throw it away. It is yours, now and forever. Use it when saying "the parents [po'e] (inalienable-of) me" (they will be my parents (especially if used in the biological sense) no matter what) or "the foot [po'e] my brother" (unless iff he is an organ donor, it is his foot. If he is, then it is a debatable issue...).

Thought they could be useful

-- ~~~~
Krilltish

Erasure (si, sa, su)

[Jun. 17th, 2008|07:13 am]

[

mood

chipper

]

I do not want to take over the idea of this language being centred around attitudinals, evidentials, and discursives. Actually, scanning http://www.jbotcan.org, I saw that learning to use attitudinals correctly is absolutely essential. However, this language is intended, I believe, to introduce people to basic and universal Lojbanic ideas (and in the process, words).

I think that a really original and cool/neat/sweet/awesome/wicked (whatever the terrm is now) class of words found in Lojban are [si], [sa], and [su]. These words do something which is called "erasure". As you might expect, they correct (erase and "write over") past words. They work really well in Lojban, but (because English has a different system) I am not sure how well they will merge with English. This might turn out to be a disaster, but I thought that we should give it a shot. I am especially worried about [sa].

si = erases one word back. String multiple [si]s together to get further and further back (I put each [si] apart from the others ([si si si]), unless if the list of them is extremely long ([si si si si si si si si si si]). Then I could si [zo'o] grouping them together in groups of two or three ([sisi sisi sisi sisi sisi] or [sisisi sisisi sisisi si]). It is kind of like "wait..I meant...", "..or..", etc.
*There is a usage (most prominently on the IRC) to, if you mess up spelling something, put the misspelled word as the next entry followede by [si] and the correct spelling:

I went over to my frend's house.
frend's si friends.
*This is not the grammatically most correct usage, but there you have it.

sa = erases back to the most recent occurance of text of the same word type as the following word(s). If I say "He sees me sa gives me the camera", it erases back to the last verb (because "gives" is a verb). You have to then replace the text following the verb as well, because everything up to the verb is erased as well. It is like "He sees me... no, no he didn't... He gives me the camera".

I am most worried about this one. In Lojban, there is only one possible identification of what the "verb" is in the sentence, for example. Therefore, [sa] cannot be misinterpreted for erasing the latest "verb". However, in English this is not the case. I am worried that there is some ambiguity in what word is erased in an English sentence such as "I look at the spider sa picture..." Is the result "I picture (something)" or "I look at the picture". Okay, so that was not the best example, but I hope you get the idea. Maybe if we follow the first word by { <word type> } if there is some ambiguity then it would make it clearer.
*Lojban, by the way, technically does not have "verbs", but we need not go into detail here.

There is no set system for how much [sa sa] erases, but I would imagine that if I said "I saw the spider sa sa Ron..." then it would erase up to "I" (not "I saw Ron").

Possibly, if one says "... sa .i si sa .i ..." it would erase up to two sentences ago. ("... sa .i si sa .i si sa .i ..." is three sentences ago) This is not guaranteed to be correct, but I think that it makes sense.
*[.i] is the Lojban punctuation mark, and I think that we should use it with erasure just so we do not have to say "STOP" or "PERIOD" or "END" or some such (especially because it cannot be misinterpreted).

Articles (the, a, an) following [sa] erase up to the last occurance of an article. I am not sure how it would work for adjectives and adverbs. In French I could see adjectives erasing up to the last adjective, but in English I think that one would have to follow it with the wanted noun anyway.

Once again, I would group [sa]s in twos or threes iff in large quantity.

su = erases entire discourse (probably just your own). It is similar to "you know what, never mind...".

If you use any of these in quotes, it erases only other material in that level of quotation-embeddedness. If you think about it, this makes sense. Presumably, the person being quoted does not know that they are (or does not know the text inbetween the quotes, at least). So, in:
"I went to the park" said George, "si si an office building. Sorry about that."
It is not "said George" that is erased. It is "the park". It works this way if there were further levels of quotation in a quoted text as well.

So, there you have it. Tell me what you think.

mu'o mi'e .krytic.

3 comments|post comment

[Apr. 25th, 2008|01:30 pm]

The last few, basic vocatives are:

nu'e - introduces a promise.
                                 I promise, Mei Li. = [nu'e] Mei Li
pe'u - introduces a request (yeah, I know I that I put this one in the just previous lesson)
                                 Please, Chester. = [pe'u] Chester
be'e - reuest to send/"Hello Hello, are you there?"
                                 May I speak, Jason? = [be'e] Jason?

Some more complicated words will follow. They are not to hard to understand:

nu'ecu'i - releases a promise
nu'enai - non-promise
ki'enai - disappreciation/ingratitude
fi'inai - unwelcome/inhospitality
re'inai -not ready yet
                                 Use it when someone is about to give you there telephone number but you do not have your pencil and/or paper yet
vi'onai - will not comply
ke'onai - no need to repeat
fe'onai - not done
mi'enai - non-identification

fi'i to Coi

[Apr. 17th, 2008|05:23 pm]

Well, it has been a few days now since I last posted, and I thought that I should introduce a few more vocatives to you Coi vocabulary:

fi'i-    Welcome/Bienvenue (French)/How may I help you/Make yourself at home/At your service!   Indicates an offer of hospitality or a service. To be said to a visitor or guest.

re'i-   Ready! Indicates that one is prepared to receive a message. If you answer a telephone, use this (not [coi])- it operates like Italian "Pronto!" (Ready!) in this case.

je'e- Roger!/Right/Uh-uh. It acknowledges (confirms) that you've received a message.

je'enai-   Beg your pardon?/Huh? Basically the opposite of [je'e].

ke'o-   Could you please repeat that?

pe'u-   Introduces a request

vi'o- Wilco!/Okay/All right, I will/Consider it done! Acknowledges a request, and promises to carry it out.

ju'i- Attention!/Hey!

ju'icu'i-      At ease!

ju'inai-      Don't pay attention/Ignore me

mu'onai-   more to follow

ki'e- Thank you. Indicates gratitude to which the appropriate response is not [fi'i]. Use [je'e] to acknowledge the gratitude.

So there they are. [.a'o] Next lesson I plan to cover the remaining basic Coi vocabulary and to introduce the fairly intuitive matter of opposites and neutrals (I included some in this lesson because I thought that they might aid comprehension of a certain word and/or would be useful). [fe'o]

Doi!

[Apr. 11th, 2008|01:44 pm]

Sorry, I forgot about a very important vocative. This vocative is [doi], which does not mean "Duh!"or "Wow. I am so dumb for forgetting something so important!", as I used it above.

[doi] really indicates who or what the user is addressing. In the previous lesson, one could address someone by using a vocative, inserting a pause (which was represented by a full stop mark (a period), though while in a partially English text the pause was left out), and then saying the addressee's name. However, with [doi], the pause may be left out. So: coi .djon. (hello John) <--> coi doi djon.

Also, if I said just [doi djon.], it would mean something like "Hey, John!" So "Houston, we have a problem" could be expressed "[doi] Houston, we have a problem".

It may not seem like it, but [doi] could be used quite frequently

fe'o

ta'a coi

[Apr. 11th, 2008|01:34 pm]

[coi], "Hello!" I was thinking, and have discussed with MungoJelly, that introducing the subset language of Coi. Coi is just as easy to learn as the attitudinals. Coi is just a language centred around the use of vocatives (words that indicate who the person being addressed is, the speaker, or to indicate to that person that he or she ought to be listening). None of it is really complex, but I think we should start off with just a few so here they are:

coi - "Hello", "greetings", etc. It is used at anytime of the day and may be said/written to anyone. Iff followed by a name (such as "[coi] Samantha"), it means that you are greeting that person ("Hello Samantha!")

mi'e - "My name is...", "I am (called)...", etc. It is used to introduce oneself. This is the only vocative to be followed by the speaker's name.

do'u - terminates the previous vocative. Used when that vocative would otherwise would be alone (such as [coi do'u], "Hello!") This is an important word because without it, the following word(s) would be part of that vocative. For example: [coi] Samantha! = Hello Samantha! -- while: [coi do'u] Samantha! = Hello! Samantha...

So right now, I can say [coi do'u mi'e .kryltyc.], or "Hello! I am Krilltish".

ta'a - "Excuse me". Used when one is interrupting in a conversation.

Another useful word is [fe'o]. This word ends communication, like "Over and out!" when using a radio. Should be used at the end of an e-mail iff one does not intend to continue the conversation. Otherwise, use [mu'o] ("Over!") or [co'o], which means "googd-bye" or "see you later". The latter, would probably be used more in normal, verbal conversation and shows a break in interaction (like [fe'o] and [mu'o]), but means that the conversation is meant to be resumed (unlike [fe'o]) as soon as possible (unlike [mu'o]).

So, don't be afraid to drop by, say [coi], and tell me what you think!

mi'e .kryltyc. fe'o

.u'a *high five*!

[Mar. 29th, 2008|11:19 pm]

Here's a field excerpt from the Lojban IRC channel on ".u'a", which means "gain" (marking something from which you gained, something which was good for you):

[11:32am] dbrock: {.u'a}?
[11:32am] dbrock: or {.ui .u'a}
[11:32am] kris_: hm, yeah. it sounds like something you might say before a high-five
[11:33am] kris_: .u'a *slap*
[11:33am] dbrock: haha, yeah!

1 comment|post comment

Mad Props

[Jan. 18th, 2008|04:24 pm]

In a recent message on a Lojban list, komfo,amonan (who's an important [pe'i] lojbanist) posted this paragraph:

Even though for technical reasons I won't personally be able to check this out in the near future, I want to thank you for pushing the important TTS work forward. *.io sai *(Mad props!) *.i mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan.*

I think the translation of ".io sai" as "mad props" is very apt, so I thought I'd share it with y'all.

Part of my goal with Cniglic is to funnel some of the teaching that does go on day to day in Lojbanistan into a more accessible form. I'm going to be bringing you examples from time to time of Cniglic as encountered in the wild [zo'o], and I've also started to gently but persistently ask questions about the attitudinals on the beginners' list, so I'll probably be posting highlights of those exchanges.

Also, a personal milestone: I now know all of the attitudinal scales! Meaning I know all of them at least to the point of recalling their keywords, which is hardly fluency, so this is still the one-eyed leading the blind. :) I know all of the keywords, and I remember what all 39 of the scales are, so I can go over them all in my mind; I think it's a good meditation, if you're thinking about how you feel about something. I believe that I know all of Cniglic now except for a few of the discursives.

Now when I'm going over the scales in my mind, I can remember komfo,amonan's gloss of ".io sai", along with all the keywords & my memories of encountering attitudinals in Lojban literature, etc, and continue clarifying my understanding. [.ua.ui.uobu'o.uonaibu'o] (discovery, happiness, beginning to be finished & beginning to be unfinished)

"pei", Cniglic's Question Word

[Jan. 16th, 2008|09:07 pm]

I have a question for y'all:

Cniglic [pei]?

Used on its own like that, Cniglic's question word, "pei", means: "How
do you feel about that?" You could respond with any attitudinal, for
instance: ".a'u", I'm interested, ".a'aru'e", I'm paying a little bit
of attention, ".oinairo'e", I feel an intellectual pleasure, or just
"ge'e", I feel something.

Another way to use "pei" is to use it as a modifier on a basic
attitude, in which case the question is: "How do you feel about this thing
on that scale?" For instance, I could ask:

Cniglic [.o'upei]?

Meaning: "How relaxed (".o'u") or stressed (".o'unai") are you about
Cniglic?" You could answer by giving a point on the seven point scale,
for instance: "ru'e", a little relaxed, "cu'i", neither stressed nor
relaxed, or "naisai", very stressed.

The third way to use "pei" is to put it before an attitudinal
scale. In this usage it's more of a yes/no question meaning: "Is this
the way you feel?" For instance:

Cniglic [pei.ui]?

"Do you feel happy about Cniglic?"

3 comments|post comment

I've Heard That Evidentials Are Awesome

[Jan. 11th, 2008|11:46 pm]

My plan for teaching the words of Cniglic is that it's such a small
collection that I can start out teaching them once through, and it
won't be long before I've gone over them all and can go back and hit
them each a second time. Especially if there are other Lojbanists
helping [.a'o] me, but even if I have to do most of the work myself,
I'll be able to quickly put out a rough draft version and then add more
details & teaching methods over time. Here's a first go at explaining
the evidential system, which makes up 11 of Cniglic's 93 words.

( Behind the cut, an Introduction to Evidentials )

So that's a first glimpse into Cniglic's evidential system, borrowed
of course from Lojban, which borrowed it from Laadan, which borrowed
it from Native American languages. There are probably some other
influences in there too. It's a fair amount of history, for eleven
little words. That's part of why I thought it was worthwhile to
include them in Cniglic.

9 comments|post comment

i hope you'll be interested in ".a'o" and ".a'u" :)

[Jan. 1st, 2008|01:02 pm]

So I posted an introduction various places, saying that you only needed to know one word to begin speaking Cniglic, and teaching you the word ".ui" [.ui]! Sure enough, several of you responded by writing comments in which you said ".ui".

speccygeekgrrl even gave us a plug, thank you. :)

I haven't noticed anyone saying ".uinai" yet, but hopefully that's because you're all feeling well. :)

I figure slow & steady wins the race, so here we are a few days later and I thought I'd share with you just a couple more scales that you might find useful. Many of you expressed that you were "interested" in Cniglic, so I thought you might like ".a'u", which expresses being interested. Something you say ".a'u" about is something which interests you, something which you are curious about, something that concerns you. If you say ".a'unai" on the other hand you're describing something you feel repulsed by, something you want to not know about & to stay away from, maybe even that disgusts you. In the middle is ".a'ucu'i", which says that while you don't have any particular curiosity or interest in something, you're not actively avoiding it either.

I've been thinking about Cniglic [.a'u] for a while now, and I've started sharing it with you among other reasons so that I can see what it's like [.a'usai] once it's spoken by a community of people.

Another Cniglic word which is one of my favorites [.ui] is ".a'o", which means hope. Something you mark with ".a'o" is something which you hope will take place, something which you wish or long for. (".a'onai" marks something you dread, something you hope won't happen.) Besides being one of my favorites, it's also useful for illustrating a property of some of the words of Cniglic which might not be obvious at first glance. Saying ".a'o" can change the proposition expressed by a sentence, in the same way that saying "I hope" can change a sentence from being about a real event to being about a theoretical event, one you only hope is going to happen.

For instance, if you said, "I'm going [.a'o] to the store," there's an implication that it's not so certain whether you're going or not, just like "I hope I'm going to the store" expresses less certainty than just "I'm going to the store." To give an even stronger example, "she's back from the store by now [.a'o]" implies that you don't yet know whether she's back or not, only that you hope she is, similar to "she's back from the store by now, I hope."

So that's enough for this lesson. You each have a growing understanding [.a'o] of Cniglic. With the three scales ".ui", ".a'o" and ".a'u", plus the five words nai (opposite), cu'i (in the middle), ru'e (weak), sai (strong) and cai (extreme) which together paint the seven point scale, we've gone over a first 8 words, which is more than a twelfth of the language already! You have a sense [.a'o] of the amount of effort required to become fluent, which isn't [.a'o] an overwhelming [.a'onairu'e] amount.

I've tried to offer you a language which you feel [.a'osai] like you personally can quickly take a meaningful place in [.a'u], that you can understand well enough to make it your own [.a'o.a'u.ui]. I want to know what visions [.a'usai] you each already have for Cniglic. Where can we take this new language [.ui.a'u], together? :)

[Dec. 31st, 2007|08:34 am]

slobin

I believe that lojban/natlang mix is limited neither to cmavo (syntax) nor to emotions (semantic). For example, rafsi mal- and zan- may be very useful as prefixes to English (or Russian, or whichever else) words. "This is zanlogical, and that is malemotional". (But the second usage has a problem: many Lojban speakers know also Esperanto, and Esperanto prefix mal- has a different meaning). On the other hand, some lojbanic tense modifiers are useful in natlang text: "do it rauroi!".

... ganai da'i mi cespre gi mi cusku lu ko zifre li'u do ...

10 comments|post comment

The Seven Point Scale

[Dec. 30th, 2007|12:57 pm]

The heart of Cniglic is 39 basic emotional indicators, such as ".ui" (happiness), ".a'o" (hope), ".o'a" (pride), and ".u'u" (repentance). Each of these can be negated with "nai", to make the opposite, for instance ".uinai" (sadness), ".a'onai" (despair), ".o'anai" (shame) and ".u'unai" (lack of regret). So each one actually represents a scale, for instance ".ui" represents a scale from being very happy to being very sad.

The midpoint of the scale is expressed by "cu'i". Often the middle of the scale is just a neutral emotion, for instance ".uicu'i" means that you're neither happy nor sad. Sometimes the midpoint of the scale has a more definite sense to it, for instance ".o'acu'i" (the midpoint between pride & shame) expresses humility, modesty, "oh it was nothing." The midpoint between repentance and lack of regret, ".u'ucu'i", means that you are innocent altogether. In the list of definitions on this community's profile, if there are three meanings given, they are the positive meaning, the neutral meaning (with "cu'i"), and the opposite meaning (with "nai").

There are also three indicators of intensity: "ru'e" means a weak or slight feeling, "sai" a strong or significant feeling, and "cai" a very strong or intense feeling. Together with "nai" and "cu'i", this gives each emotion a seven point scale:

cai, sai, ru'e, cu'i, nairu'e, naisai, naicai

For instance:

.uicai - extremely happy
.uisai - happy
.uiru'e - a bit happy
.uicu'i - neither happy nor sad
.uinairu'e - a bit sad
.uinaisai - sad
.uinaicai - extremely sad

So that brings us to 39 * 7 = 273 different expressions already, and that's before even getting into the various other modifiers. :)

I'd like to say welcome to the three people who have joined this community already [.uicai]. Please feel free to introduce yourselves if you want, or to post anything else you'd like. I assure you that all you need to know of Cniglic to start speaking it is a single word; that's been part of my objective in imagining this language [.o'aru'e] is to lower the barrier to entry all the way to the floor [.ui]. I also would be glad to answer any questions as best I can, and I'd appreciate [.uisai] any suggestions anyone has about how to teach Cniglic, so that it can soon spread to many people [.a'osai].

A Wee Language

[Dec. 29th, 2007|12:05 am]

Cniglic (SHNEE-gleesh) is a language which I found roaming wild in the hills of Lojbanistan. Lojban is known as a "Logical Language," but in fact beyond its logical abilities it is also a vast collection of many strange odds & ends, a grand attic of dusty antiques & strange contraptions. One interesting corner of Lojban is its attitudinals, words which are so useful for expressing yourself (especially in text) that they are always slipping into the dialect of English spoken in Lojbanistan. Lately I have been gently beginning to try to bring this subset of Lojban, and this trick of applying it to the English language, more fully into conscious & public awareness.

Lojban itself requires a substantial commitment to be learned, nearly as much as a natural language, and while it is well worth it (IMHO), it can hardly be surprising that few people have taken that long hard trek into the unknown, just for the dubious intellectual pleasure of speaking to themselves & a few strangers in an utterly obscure (though intriguing) language. Cniglic is a place where you may dip your toe, and explore one of the most unique aspects of Lojban without having the buy the whole package. Not only does Cniglic have less than a hundred words, making it a smaller task to learn in whole than even Toki Pona, but because those words are used only to color & flavor English text, you can begin speaking with complete fluency from the first day, using whatever words you know.

So, all you really need to know to begin speaking Cniglic is a single word. I'll teach you one right now: ".ui" The word ".ui" is pronounced "wee!" and it means that you are happy! (If you're happy and you know it, just say "wee!") That's the most basic way to use a word of Cniglic: Just say it by itself, to express how you are feeling. It's a bit like saying "ugh" or "wow." The other main way to use a Cniglic word is almost as simple: You can say it while you're talking about something, and it shows your feeling about the last thing you mentioned. For instance:

I'm going for a walk [.ui] in the park!

Which means that you are going for a walk in the park, and you're happy about walking. Similarly:

I'm going for a walk in the park [.ui]!

Which means that you are going for a walk in the park, and you're happy about the park. Incidentally, I use [brackets] to separate the Cniglic from the English-- other people use {curly braces} or (parentheses), or you can use nothing at all, it doesn't really matter.

That's it; you know enough Cniglic to start speaking it with me, if you wish, and exploring this neat little toy which the inventors of Lojban have gifted us. As you explore more of it, you'll find that while it is quite simple structurally, it is actually quite productive: There are various modifiers which can be applied to each emotion, vastly multiplying how many different qualities can be expressed. It's kind of like smilies on steroids. :) [.ui]