C to the Izaph, E to the Izine ([info]capheine) wrote in [info]christianity,
@ 2008-07-17 09:28:00
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Current location:303
Current mood: annoyed

I Got your Worship Right Here
Is anyone else annoyed that, within the context of the typical evangelical church service, the word "worship" has been hijacked and redefined as "singing"?


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[info]martiancyclist
2008-07-17 03:34 pm UTC (link)
Since the typical evangelical church service lacks communion, I'm not sure there's much worshiping going on that isn't singing anyway.

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[info]capheine
2008-07-17 03:38 pm UTC (link)
Mine does. You're free to come up and take communion whenever you feel led to, though usually this is during the singing for most people.

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(no subject) - [info]yapidka, 2008-07-17 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]capheine, 2008-07-17 04:36 pm UTC

[info]cmaried
2008-07-17 04:43 pm UTC (link)
Yeoww, that was harsh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]martiancyclist, 2008-07-17 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaeri, 2008-07-17 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmaried, 2008-07-18 12:06 am UTC

[info]grace_in_spades
2008-07-17 03:35 pm UTC (link)
I'm more annoyed that singing has been hijacked to be this cheesy kind of thing rather than REAL worship and time of connecftion with God.

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[info]capheine
2008-07-17 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I think I agree, but I want to hear your explanation of that statement before I offer mine :)

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(no subject) - [info]grace_in_spades, 2008-07-17 03:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]capheine, 2008-07-17 04:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]martiancyclist, 2008-07-17 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cbackson, 2008-07-17 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pastorlenny, 2008-07-17 04:56 pm UTC

[info]badbadivy
2008-07-17 03:47 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm. I think I feel closer to God when singing than at any other time.

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[info]chaeri
2008-07-17 05:57 pm UTC (link)
me too.

how ELSE would i worship?

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[info]davidbrider
2008-07-17 04:05 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I know what you mean.

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[info]yapidka
2008-07-17 04:16 pm UTC (link)
I know what you're getting at. I'm also upset that the sermon's been hijacked to promote church programs like amway products. The body & blood being used as a symbol to play pretend to have Communion is also offensive... but hey... this is why I'm Catholic.

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[info]grace_in_spades
2008-07-17 04:24 pm UTC (link)
If my church EVER started to promote anyone products, I'd be GONE.

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(no subject) - [info]yapidka, 2008-07-17 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]capheine, 2008-07-17 04:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yapidka, 2008-07-17 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]grace_in_spades, 2008-07-17 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yapidka, 2008-07-17 04:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaeri, 2008-07-17 06:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 05:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cinchntouch, 2008-07-17 05:08 pm UTC

[info]tutal
2008-07-17 07:36 pm UTC (link)
This is something that I think is lost on much of Christendom. The Sermon/Homily's purpose is not primarily to teach (didachtic), but it is for proclamation (kyrigmatic) of Christ and him crucified, teaching happens and is secondary. As proclamation that takes place within the context of the liturgy it is the pivot/transition from the service of the Word to the service of the Sacrament

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[info]anitra
2008-07-17 04:24 pm UTC (link)
YES.

I love that at our church, when the time for contemporary songs comes, the song leader usually leads off by saying some variation on "Let's continue our worship now by singing."

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[info]cmaried
2008-07-17 04:25 pm UTC (link)
It has? I wasn't aware of that..at every evangelical church I've been to, we use the term "worship".

Other than that, I realize that our liturgical brethren may have a different-and very vocal!-opinion of what "worship" vs. "singing' entails.

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[info]catholic_heart
2008-07-17 04:31 pm UTC (link)
we only get huffy about the singing folks because we frozen-chosen can't carry a tune to save our lives :-P

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(no subject) - [info]martiancyclist, 2008-07-17 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 05:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]catholic_heart, 2008-07-17 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaeri, 2008-07-17 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tutal, 2008-07-17 07:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]catholic_heart, 2008-07-17 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tutal, 2008-07-17 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmaried, 2008-07-18 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]catholic_heart, 2008-07-18 12:16 am UTC

[info]davidbrider
2008-07-17 04:32 pm UTC (link)
I think the argument I've heard tends to be that worship is about our whole lives lived for the glory of God (based on Paul's words in Romans 12:1). The tendency to use the word to describe either singing or in wider application, the whole of a church service, is...well, not terribly Scriptural, AIUI.

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[info]capheine
2008-07-17 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Singing can be worship.

Not all singing is worship.

Not all worship is singing (which is good, because otherwise I'd be in serious trouble with Big Guns Upstairs).

There are many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many ways to worship Christ, but it seems like the only one that's present at most church services I attend is singing. I have my own theories as to why this is the case, but that's a different rant entirely.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]martiancyclist, 2008-07-17 04:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmaried, 2008-07-18 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmaried, 2008-07-18 12:12 am UTC

[info]mylifemyfaith
2008-07-17 04:26 pm UTC (link)
Yes! The singing of hymns is a part of our worship, which also includes prayers, calls to worship, statements of faith or creeds, sacraments, sacramental acts, the offertory, and the sermon.

All of these things are worship, and there is a very big difference between teaching and preaching in my opinion. So I will never call a sermon in the context of worship teaching- it's a liturgical act, not a didactical one. In the sermon the preacher presents the Word made flesh out of the Word written. In teaching one didacticly explains some part of the Christian faith.

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[info]capheine
2008-07-17 04:34 pm UTC (link)
re: your first paragraph - You know what makes me want to convert to messianic Judaism sometimes? Jews can turn EATING DINNER into worship. How awesome is that?!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]mylifemyfaith, 2008-07-17 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]malasadas, 2008-07-17 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pirish, 2008-07-17 06:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 06:44 pm UTC

[info]iamdigitalis
2008-07-17 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Yes. I've been to services during which I've prayed that the singing would stop.

-h (a mod)

(Reply to this)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]pastorlenny, 2008-07-17 04:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]martiancyclist, 2008-07-17 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iamdigitalis, 2008-07-18 06:18 pm UTC

[info]log_junkie
2008-07-17 06:45 pm UTC (link)
Ultimate worship is participating in the Eucharist. You can't beat it. Although music is an important part of that.

You Protestants have awesome music (mostly). Come to a Catholic Mass that's stuck ca. 1974 and you'll appreciate what you have.

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(no subject) - [info]paedraggaidin, 2008-07-17 06:54 pm UTC

[info]xenaclone
2008-07-17 06:50 pm UTC (link)
The whole service = worship. Yes? Words, music, silence, dance, drama, teaching, prayer....[etc]. It's all an offering to God.

XC

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[info]tutal
2008-07-17 07:15 pm UTC (link)
I really don't even like the term "worship" as it really isn't all that Christian, and it is anthropocentric (man centered). This is why German Christians have used the term Gottestdienst - God's service. In the introduction to one of our hymnals it puts it beautifully:

Our Lord speaks and we listen. His Word bestows what it says. Faith that is born from what is heard acknowledges the gifts received with eager thankfulness and praise. Music is drawn into this thankfulness and praise, anlarging and elevating the adoration of our gracious giver God.

Saying back to Him what He has said to us, we repeat what is most true and sure. Most true and sure is His name, which He put upon us with the water of our Baptism. We are His. This we acknowledge at the beginning of the Divine Service. Where His name is, there is He. Before Him we acknoweledge that we are sinners, and we plead for forgiveness. His forgiveness is given us, and we, freed and forgiven, acclaim Him as our great and gracious God as we apply ourselves the words He has used to make Himself known to us.

The rhythm of our worship is from Him to us, and then from us back to Him. He gives His gifts, and together we receive and extol them. We build one another up as we speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Our Lord give us His Body to eat and His Blood to drink. Finally His blessing moves us out into our calling, where His gifts have their fruition. How best to do this we may learn from His Word and from the way His Word has prompted His worship through the centuries. We are heirs of an astonishingly rich tradition. Each generation receive from those who went before and, in making that tradition of the Divine Service its own, adds what best may serve in its own day - the living heritage of something new.

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[info]smartykjmn15
2008-07-18 03:42 am UTC (link)
within an evangelical service... yes, very annoyed.

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[info]christianblog
2008-07-18 10:31 am UTC (link)
I like the expression of worship that is "coming to God with a kiss".

Good preaching can draw you into the presence of Jesus - indeed it *should* - but music certainly helps a lot as well.

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[info]advoir
2008-07-19 05:00 am UTC (link)
As someone who participates in music ministry - YES! Music is only a medium! You can worship God doing the dishes!

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